ups & downs-Weirs biz

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) Reading up on Annalee Dolls brought me this, which says that collectors are paying hundreds (even thousands) for these dolls:
http://www.thegavel.net/Sep1doll.html
...

Interesting ... I saw most of those high priced ones sold at the auction(s). One reason for the $6,000+ price was that all dolls sold at the Annalee auctions were personaly signed by Annalee and some were one of a kind. The Rogers store pieces were early pieces hand made at her dining room table before there was a "Factory in the Woods".

Son Townsend may have lived on Parker, not sure.

[tis]

Risy-Lived on Parker????? We had the pleasure of being seated with them at a wedding. They are extremely nice people. I wish them well.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by tis

Risy-Lived on Parker????? ....

Just a speculation. Town was a sailing enthusiast and he had a rather large sail boat (in the pictures I saw) but I think it was in Maine. I thought I heard he lived on the water around Wini before that. Yes, they were all nice people. Chuck and Town were really easy people to chat with. I even have an Annalee hat signed by the whole family, Annalee, Chip, Chuck and Town.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by CanisLupusArctos:
Weirs could do well if they capitalized on the current recession by assuming non-upscale families still want a scenic retreat if only it were affordable, and make themselves the kind of place where southern NH's growing population can go on a budget, and without spending a lot of gas money to get there.

That might work while they wait for the MBTA and whatever the NH rail system is called to get their act together, although I don't think that line will ever be as successful as the Downeaster because it's a commuter rail line.

What would you do with all the t-shirt stores and run down arcades? As for the old Irwin Gardens I wouldn't mind seeing it morphed back into a restaurant concert hall but the last time I went past it in a boat that pier looks like it needs some serious work.

[CanisLupusArctos]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

That might work while they wait for the MBTA and whatever the NH rail system is called to get their act together, although I don't think that line will ever be as successful as the Downeaster because it's a commuter rail line.

What would you do with all the t-shirt stores and run down arcades? As for the old Irwin Gardens I wouldn't mind seeing it morphed back into a restaurant concert hall but the last time I went past it in a boat that pier looks like it needs some serious work.

Since southern NH has grown a lot in recent years I keep hearing more people say they're commuting between Laconia, Tilton, Concord, and Manchester. Ever since 2004 when gas started to get dramatically more expensive I started overhearing them in public saying they wished they could just take a train instead of driving. So, the Laconia-to-Boston route (and all the cities in between) may end up being just as busy as the Downeaster once finished (which would be a few years... what do we think gas prices will be like in a few years?) When the Downeaster opened in 2002 it wasn't that popular and the cost of gas for driving between Boston and Portland was still less than a ticket on the train. Then the price of oil went nuts.... then last year Amtrak started promoting a special schedule to accommodate Maine and NH people who wanted to attend the Red Sox games, so even more people discovered it.

At first people weren't too receptive to the train because they were so accustomed to driving but now the students have latched onto it. Therefore when the rails reach Concord and (if) Laconia successfully clamors for extension to their station, I could imagine Plymouth State University jumping up and saying "Why stop there? PSU students want train service like the UNH students have." It's all speculation... but with American society's renewed interest in mass-transit there could very well be train service running from Boston through Weirs Beach to Plymouth in 10 years... you never know.

This move to revitalize the railroads isn't isolated. Over in Maine they began a feasability study on revitalizing Maine's section of the Portland-to-St. Johnsbury VT rail line (which runs through Crawford Notch). They're determining how many people would use a Portland-to-Fryeburg commuter rail service.

In the last few years the state of NH has been promoting itself as an international travel destination and they've been running into the problem that European countries never traded their railroads for cars, so the foreigners come over to NH and become disappointed that they can't take a train to go places. Let's say that in 15 years Weirs Beach has passenger rail from Boston-Plymouth: you might be hearing British accents and see at least one food vendor selling fish 'n'chips under a Union Jack. What an interesting change that would be!

Sorry that was a bit off-topic, but only intended to say that the return of the railroads is not confined to the line that runs through Weirs Beach... Cars and cheap gas put NH's major railroads out of business in the 50s and 60s but now gas isn't cheap anymore so people are looking at those abandoned rail lines and saying "Hmmmmmm." It's happening in lots of places.

You have a good point on those run-down arcades and such. The run-down appearance probably drives a lot of families away. It would probably be a good idea to physically clean up the Weirs Beach neighborhood before the WOW trail goes in, or else the crowd that loves decayed neighborhoods may use the trail for decayed activities.

[Gatto Nero]

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

You have a good point on those run-down arcades and such. The run-down appearance probably drives a lot of families away. It would probably be a good idea to physically clean up the Weirs Beach neighborhood before the WOW trail goes in, or else the crowd that loves decayed neighborhoods may use the trail for decayed activities.

That would take quite a concerted effort. I assume all those buildings are owned by different people/companies, and it doesn't look like they have any intention of changing anytime too soon. Even if one two did it probably wouldn't pay off unless they all followed suit. You would need one or a couple of like minded entities to come in with a revitalization plan and buy them all out. I'm guessing that land is worth quite a bit so they would need some pretty deep pockets. I hear casinos have deep pockets....

[CanisLupusArctos]

Originally Posted by Gatto Nero

That would take quite a concerted effort. I assume all those buildings are owned by different people/companies, and it doesn't look like they have any intention of changing anytime too soon. Even if one two did it probably wouldn't pay off unless they all followed suit. You would need one or a couple of like minded entities to come in with a revitalization plan and buy them all out. I'm guessing that land is worth quite a bit so they would need some pretty deep pockets. I hear casinos have deep pockets....

...Or a concerted effort by the city. If enough people flood the city council with letters, the city can order the owners to do something about the appearance of their buildings for the good of the community. It's happened in other places around the country. Just in the last few days the city made the new Cumberland Farms at Weirs Beach change their gas-station canopy from the 'standard' canopy to one that looks a bit more classy... so there's a legal example of the city taking charge of its appearance.

I believe there is one owner of the main strip of arcades. The Winni Pier is a different owner.

[Weirs guy]

Its very interesting to read the opinions posted here. Now let me be clear right away, if no one ever stopped by the Weirs to visit again I'd be tickled pink, less hassle for me and I do not make a dime off tourism.

I find the notion that the Weirs has gone "bikeweek only" interesting (no bashing intended guys). For basically 2 weeks of the summer we host the biggest keg party in the north east, much to the dismay of most of the people I know. Once the week is over bike traffic basically disappears until early September (apparently they are as afraid of families as the families are of them) with families on vacation, daytrippers and teenagers filling the void.

The "run down" arcades could in fact use some sprucing up, although I find it interesting no one has mentioned the "run down" Mount building that could likewise use some paint. The new Lobster pound looks great, the old Elviros Pizza is being worked on, several of the veterans row houses have had/are having work done now, and the recently remodeled Crazy Gringo, refurbished General Store and newly built (and then rebuilt again!) Brookside are good examples of what a facelift can do, and these business owners should be rewarded.

But a Casino? Maybe, but lets not forget that those run down arcades are full of teenagers and young adults all week long. When a recession hits, as it is today, who will stop coming here first, adults who frequent the casino and have less disposable income, or teenagers who have nothing but disposable income?

Businesses for sale? Does anyone remember a time when they weren't? The Pier has been for sale for years, for more reasons then the recent recession. Waldo Peppers moving is not good for those of us here year round, but something will take its place (I'm sorry Pepper, we do love and will miss you). Remember when the water slide wasn't the water slide? How many cried the end of the Weirs when the HoJo's moved out? When Irwin stopped bringing in bands and those dang pinball machines moved in?

And yet here we are, armpit deep in tourists from the beginning of the season to the end. Could there be more? Of course. But lets not forget that we are currently in a time period where families have less disposable income, and business is down in other areas as well.

So, off my soap box and back to the point. I think there is progress being made, things are being "cleaned up" and refreshed. People will try new business ideas here, and some will succeed and some will fail. Its the nature of things here.

Hopefully we'll bump into some of you on the boardwalk this year, cause (much to my dismay) the people will still come.

[Pepper]

Weirs Guy - I agree in large part with your thoughts.

I also believe there are other factors contributing to the decline in business/traffic/revenue in the neighborhood. For instance, over the winter season of '04/'05, we lost 84 (or more) cottages which had previously been weekly-rental locations up and down Weirs Boulevard. They were converted to condominiums, and purchased as second homes. So, what once provided a large volume of families on vacation for a week at a time, has turned into a smattering of weekend visitors. Let's face it, not everyone who owns one of these units is here every weekend. This leaves a large hole in the tourism ecomomy of the neighborhood.

With regard to bike week - I don't feel anyone has accused the neighborhood of being a bike-week-only area. I think what's being said is that much planning and effort go into that week, but sadly little else is done to market the area for the remainder of the season. That said, I feel strongly that the Weirs Action Committee has put forth a mammoth effort, and has achieved a measure of success for sure! All the flowerpots, traffic-island gardens and flags go a long way toward beautifying the area. The fireworks are another terrific addition. Unfortunately a small group which is entirely self-funded can only do so much.

Everyone is certainly in agreement that some of the buildings in the vicinity could do with some major sprucing-up. The trouble is, it's a seasonal resort, with limited income potential! Therefore, the profits made during the season must sustain the expenses of the property and business for the entire year. Taxes alone are enough of a burden, but when added to the simple costs of doing business it certainly doesn't leave enough left over for major refurbishments.

So let's say for argument's sake that an entity with extraordinarily deep pockets comes along and buys up huge sections. Then what? They build huge hotels and shopping plazas which will only be busy for three or four months of each year? Or do they build casinos? Either brings it's share of relief, and it's share of grief.

The Weirs is completely unique in that it is one of the most beautifully scenic stretches of waterfront on the lake, but is off-the-beaten-path of major roadways. Once the season is over, there is little traffic, largly because the communities on either side are self-sustaining - meaning there is not much cause to travel from one to the other. Hence, the dead-zone we become from September through May.

Theories abound regarding what could/should happen. The reality is that no matter what happens, there will always be some who are unhappy with the result. If the Wiers remains the same, folks will complain it is outdated, rundown, etc. If it changes, folks will lament the change. It's a catch-22 no matter how it shakes out.

There is only one thing I can say with great certainty. The Weirs is home to some of the nicest and most hard-working people I know. People who care deeply about their community, their property, their neighbors, and their visitors. I'm proud to have been a part of that community, and a big part of me is sad to be leaving it behind.

[jrc]

Originally Posted by Pepper

....For instance, over the winter season of '04/'05, we lost 84 (or more) cottages which had previously been weekly-rental locations up and down Weirs Boulevard. They were converted to condominiums, and purchased as second homes.....

I think this is a good point. When I owned a condo at the lake I did tourist things once, ride the Mount, play mini-golf, visit the arcades, etc. After that I just came to the lake on Friday and left on Sunday. Other than two weeks around the Fourth, the condo was empty Monday-Friday.

When these condos/hotels were rented to tourists, every Saturday a new group arrived for a week. Every week they had to see all the sights. Monday the Mount, Tuesday rent a boat, Wednesday mini-golf...

Condo-ization has it's downside.

[mets3007]

The Ames family owns the Half Moon Motel, Penny Arcade and all the stores on the strip there and someone else owns the Pier.

As for the boardwalk area itself I love the boardwalk and the people there each of them are friendly and respectful from us who are from NYC, but, I would be the 1st to say the area needs sprucing. I mean not a major make over but like paint the Mount Area with a fresh coat of paint and where the ticket window is for the Mount it leaks alot of times, how hard is it to get someone there to fix it lol. Alot of times pieces of the boardwalk are sticking up for days, how hard is it to get a hammer to nail it down. These lil things could make the expierence better and nicer looking.

[ossipeeboater]

Originally Posted by CanisLupusArctos

Since southern NH has grown a lot in recent years I keep hearing more people say they're commuting between Laconia, Tilton, Concord, and Manchester. Ever since 2004 when gas started to get dramatically more expensive I started overhearing them in public saying they wished they could just take a train instead of driving. So, the Laconia-to-Boston route (and all the cities in between) may end up being just as busy as the Downeaster once finished (which would be a few years... what do we think gas prices will be like in a few years?) When the Downeaster opened in 2002 it wasn't that popular and the cost of gas for driving between Boston and Portland was still less than a ticket on the train. Then the price of oil went nuts.... then last year Amtrak started promoting a special schedule to accommodate Maine and NH people who wanted to attend the Red Sox games, so even more people discovered it.

At first people weren't too receptive to the train because they were so accustomed to driving but now the students have latched onto it. Therefore when the rails reach Concord and (if) Laconia successfully clamors for extension to their station, I could imagine Plymouth State University jumping up and saying "Why stop there? PSU students want train service like the UNH students have." It's all speculation... but with American society's renewed interest in mass-transit there could very well be train service running from Boston through Weirs Beach to Plymouth in 10 years... you never know.

This move to revitalize the railroads isn't isolated. Over in Maine they began a feasability study on revitalizing Maine's section of the Portland-to-St. Johnsbury VT rail line (which runs through Crawford Notch). They're determining how many people would use a Portland-to-Fryeburg commuter rail service.

In the last few years the state of NH has been promoting itself as an international travel destination and they've been running into the problem that European countries never traded their railroads for cars, so the foreigners come over to NH and become disappointed that they can't take a train to go places. Let's say that in 15 years Weirs Beach has passenger rail from Boston-Plymouth: you might be hearing British accents and see at least one food vendor selling fish 'n'chips under a Union Jack. What an interesting change that would be!

Sorry that was a bit off-topic, but only intended to say that the return of the railroads is not confined to the line that runs through Weirs Beach... Cars and cheap gas put NH's major railroads out of business in the 50s and 60s but now gas isn't cheap anymore so people are looking at those abandoned rail lines and saying "Hmmmmmm." It's happening in lots of places.

at $1 million a mile minimum to rebuild abandoned rail lines trains aren't coming back anytime soon unless theres other commerce to use the tracks, Amtrack is subsidized to the tune of 1.3 billion per year and would be out of business if it stood on it's own the downeaster being a great example of that with it's current 7.5 million in government subsidy required to break even. The schedule of the downeaster still makes it impossible for normal working folk to use it to commute into boston it's easier to drive to newburyport or use the bus. first downeaster arrives at 8.25 in the morning. Mass transit is a great concept but only works in a densly populated area.

[tis]

Acres, that is why I posted to Risy, "LIVED" on Parker??? I think your Dad remembers correctly, he drove his boat up on Parker Island. He was supposedly BUI-but I don't remember how it ended up. GWC remembers that.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by tis

... he drove his boat up on Parker Island. ....

click!

[CanisLupusArctos]

Originally Posted by ossipeeboater

at $1 million a mile minimum to rebuild abandoned rail lines trains aren't coming back anytime soon unless theres other commerce to use the tracks, Amtrack is subsidized to the tune of 1.3 billion per year and would be out of business if it stood on it's own the downeaster being a great example of that with it's current 7.5 million in government subsidy required to break even. The schedule of the downeaster still makes it impossible for normal working folk to use it to commute into boston it's easier to drive to newburyport or use the bus. first downeaster arrives at 8.25 in the morning. Mass transit is a great concept but only works in a densly populated area.

I agree... the status of passenger rail in New England at the moment is such that driving is still preferable. Although it's getting ridiculously expensive to drive.... I definitely have cut out a lot of pleasure trips in the last year or so, as have many of my friends. That represents lost revenue to my destinations, and the lost revenue for the Lakes Region when my friends stay home.

My comments on mass transit are "years ahead" thinking: We're expecting $4 a gallon gas this summer. Prices have been rising rapidly. It's going up so fast that it's time for the lakes region to ask, "What gas price will render driving financially unreasonable or impossible for a great enough percentage of our regular tourists to effectively shut down our tourism economy?"

For the Weirs this means they have to start looking at how they're going to get their traditional less-ritzy crowd to keep coming even when gas is $5 a gallon or more. The only other option is to go upscale like the rest of the lake, but as mentioned earlier, that's got plenty of problems in the long-term.

On the news sites there are already stories of travel trends showing people are sticking closer to home for vacation, or just vacationing right where they live, without going anywhere. My question is: at what gas price does "we can't afford to go away this summer" begin to reflect a majority of people?

We're already seeing peoples' attitudes toward their cars change back to what people thought in the early 1900's: The car is just for "around town." Back then they didn't go far because of comfort, but today's reason is cost.

Something has to be done on a large scale soon, if we're going to keep traveling and expecting travelers. It seems common sense to me that whatever that "something" is, conversion from our present way of doing things is not going to happen overnight or be cheap.

The Weirs is probably the most vulnerable part of the Lakes Region as travel prices rise, because its usual crowd isn't rich.

[fatlazyless]

The proposed WOW Trail will be running right through the Weirs as the tracks run along the 200 yard long wood boardwalk and past the dock of the Mount Washington.

Talking about the railroad line that runs from Concord to Lincoln, and runs next to Paugus and Meredith Bays. The proposed WOW trail, Winnisquam-Ossipee-Winnipesaukee trail would and hopefully will be a paved bicycle path that runs alongside the railroad tracks. People could come to the area by the train and then rent bicycles for exploring along the area around the WOW trail. Just like in Europe.

While Route 3 in Laconia and Meredith is not bicycle friendly, the WOW trail would be bicycle friendly because it is flat, very scenic, and closed to motorized vehicles. Bicyclers, roller-skaters, walkers, runners, summer cross country skiers, & skateboarders could use it. Fisherman could bicycle to a favorite fishing spot.

The state is reviewing the use of the miles-long, state-owned embankment that is situated between the railroad tracks and the water. As everyone knows the state owns the water. Probably, many do not know that the State of New Hampshire also owns the embankment and has been leasing it out to the abutter. Maybe the state could rewrite the leases so the abutter can access the water with a dock and a boat, and at the same time the public could access the water for fishing, swimming, and non-motorized use.