Boaters certificate question

Bear Islander · 04-11-2008, 01:10 PM

If you have a certificate issued by the State of Maine it is good in New Hampshire. It doesn't matter if you got in on line or not.

The only hassle you are likely to receive is on this forum. There are people here that do not like that out of state certificates are good in NH.

Confusing people that are only asking a simple question is not appropriate.

Skip · 04-11-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

...Confusing people that are only asking a simple question is not appropriate...

I think that is an unfair statement due to the nature of the issue.

New Hampshire State law is clear, on line certificates obtained after January 1st are not valid in New Hampshire.

However, the New Hampshire Marine Patrol has stated to me and and least one other poster here that outside of this State, they have no reliable way to verify if a NASBLA certified certificate issued by another State was granted by a proctored exam or elicited through an on-line process.

Hence the current NHMP policy is not to enforce that particular provision of the statute when handed an out-of-state NASBLA certificate.

Now comes the complication. While the NHMP can, by policy, choose to ignore that provision of the statute and absolve you of criminal liability they cannot also absolve you of increased civil exposure.

What does that mean?

It means if you are involved in an accident and posess an out-of-state generated on-line NASBLA cerificate that was issued after January 1st any competent attorney can pursue enhanced civil penalties against you because you did not meet the statutory requirements to operate a vessel in the State of New Hampshire.

Civil trials and civil liability differ greatly from the facts and circumstances utilized in criminal court.

My advice, for what its worth? If you intend to boat in New Hampshire take the extra effort to obtain a proctored exam NASBLA certified certificate. It is much safer way to minimize your exposure in both criminal and civil proceedings.

Bear Islander · 04-11-2008, 03:46 PM

What you are doing is so unfair....

A person comes to the forum for a simple answer to a basic question. The answer to his question is YES It is not reasonable to use the question as an opportunity to trot out pet theories.

If you want to start a thread and hash out your legal theories fine. But to hijack a simple question into this mess is wrong. We settled this last summer, out of state certificates are good in NH. Not liking that answer is no good reason to throw mud on a simple question.

You posted
New Hampshire State law is clear, on line certificates obtained after January 1st are not valid in New Hampshire.

Wrong! The law is not clear at all. You are taking a couple of words and attaching your own meaning to them.

Safe Boater Education
Section 270-D:15
270-D:15 Certificate Not Required. – A person shall not be required to obtain a certificate of boating safety education if the person holds a certificate from any state indicating successful completion of boating safety education that meets or exceeds the requirements of this subdivision, a certificate from the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, or a certificate from the United States Power Squadron.

It does say quite clearly "meets or exceeds". You have decided that some out of state certificates do not apply. That is your opinion. It is the determination of the Marine Patrol that all NASBLA certificates issued by other states apply. That is the way the Marine Patrol interprets "meets or exceeds".

I happen to agree with your interpretation and not the Marine Patrol's. But to say it is clear is not accurate. In any event we are not the Marine Patrol, and their position IS clear.

Skip · 04-11-2008, 04:25 PM

No pet theory. Just a direct phone call to the LT at Marine Patrol.

I will repeat it once again, as an individual with several decades experience in interpreting the criminal code in this State.

The law now requires a proctored exam. This portion of the law which encompasses several different portions of the applicable RSAs in addition to the one cherry picked by BI, has not been waived.

Direct from a conversation with NHMP, they are aware of the requirements of the law but stated that they do not have the resources to continuously verify if an out-of-state NASBLA certificate was obtained by a proctored exam or an on-line process.

Therefore, once again directly from the NHMP, they cannot enforce the proctored exam provision as required by the RSA.

What does that mean? If you have an on-line generated NASBLA certificate from another State the NHMP currently will not enforce that provision.

And I will reiterate once again, the burden of proof in an accompanying civil case is a much lower standard than a criminal proceeding. One only has to review the infamous Littlefield criminal and civil transcripts to obtain a text book example of that.

If you choose to boat in New Hampshire with an on-line certificate from another State that was issued after the January 1st deadline you subject yourself to enhanced civil repercussions.

That you don't appear to understand this concept is excusable, as you do not have the same background or experience in these matters as I do.

But please, don't let someone else suffer needlessly because of your own ignorance in the matter...

In the end it is for the reader to determine the credibility of the poster in these matters. I will stand on the reputation I have cultivated here over a number of years in reference to legal matters within the State and hope that anyone taking the time to read my opinion carefully follows my advice and simply takes a minor additional step and obtain a proctored NASBLA certificate.

wehatetoquitit · 04-11-2008, 08:24 PM

Well Skip, now I am really confused.

If I am stoped by MP for some infraction, not involving another boat and I have an on-line NASBLA cert. what enhanced civil penalties would I be liable for. If another boat was involved (accident) and I have a NH proctored cert., I could see the opposing atty. arguing that I have taken a proctered exam and therefore the penalties should be greater, because I should have known better. I thought the certification program was about education. And if everyone has some degree of education, boating in general should be safer.

l still don't understand why enhanced penatlies for not having a proctored cert. What if a certificate is issued by another state with a proctered exam, but the rules in that state differ from NH, would the same enhanced civil penalties apply?

Just trying to understand so I can stay out of trouble.

secondcurve · 04-11-2008, 08:58 PM

Listen to Skip. He does his homework.

What he is saying, I believe, is that if you choose to boat in NH using a boating certificate that was earned online from another state, after the NH cutoff, then you are opening yourself up to potential liability. For example, if you plow into another boat and kill someone and your license was earned yesterday, in the state of Maine, online, you're going to likely be sued in civil court. If you have lots of assets, you potentially could be exposed to a large judgement. The logic behind the case will be that you didn't comply with the legalities of NH law regarding boater safety and as a result you are liable for killing someone since you didn't bother to get the proper safety training.

Airwaves · 04-11-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wehatetoquitit
Well Skip, now I am really confused.

If I am stoped by MP for some infraction, not involving another boat and I have an on-line NASBLA cert. what enhanced civil penalties would I be liable for. If another boat was involved (accident) and I have a NH proctored cert., I could see the opposing atty. arguing that I have taken a proctered exam and therefore the penalties should be greater, because I should have known better. I thought the certification program was about education. And if everyone has some degree of education, boating in general should be safer.

l still don't understand why enhanced penatlies for not having a proctored cert. What if a certificate is issued by another state with a proctered exam, but the rules in that state differ from NH, would the same enhanced civil penalties apply?

Just trying to understand so I can stay out of trouble.

Let me try to explain this.

If you are stopped by the Marine Patrol and have a NASBLA approved certificate from a state that has reciprocity with New Hampshire, then you will not be cited for not having a safe boating certificate by the Marine Patrol whether you got that certificate from an on-line course or went through classroom education with a proctored exam. The Marine Patrol does not have the resources to determine the difference between the two.

If however, you are involved in an accident and are sued, and if the opposing attorney discovers that you got your NASBLA approved out of state boating certificate from an on-line course without a proctored exam, then the opposing attorney could make a case before the judge or jury that you were in violation of NH law and operating illegally, which would actually be true.

So, is a NASBLA approved on-line out of state certificate going to be honored by the Marine Patrol during a routine stop? Yes.

If you are involved in an accident and are sued will you be accused by the opposing attorney, and possibly the state, of operating a boat on NH waters in violation of the NH boater education law? Yes.

I think the "enhanced penalties" come into play because the opposing attorney would be able to show that because you held an on-line certificate issued after the date of the statute that you were on the water in violation of NH law and as such are totally at fault.
If you had a NASBLA approved certificate from a proctored exam no such accusation could be made.

So, did I make it clear as mud for you?

Skip · 04-11-2008, 11:31 PM

Secondcurve made it much clearer than I did!

There is no civil penalty for simply being stopped by NHMP. All NHMP is going to do is ignore the requirement that all certificates be granted via a proctored exam for reasons already stated.

Your greater exposure occurs, as secondcurve observes, if you are involved in an incident that eventually leads to civil process.

Confusing? You bet! That precisely is why there is no simple answer to this question.

One thing is easy though.

In the few States that I am aware that still offer the NASBLA certified on-line certificate, each one still has various options on how to obtain a proctored exam.

The only way to be in full compliance with the RSA, both criminally and especially civilly, is to obtain your certificate utilizing that methology.

And if in the process it makes you a little better of a boater, don't we all benefit?

wehatetoquitit · 04-12-2008, 12:13 AM

If I am understanding this correctly, it has nothing to do with boater safety, but rather complying with the letter of the law. If it has to do with boater safety, then on line certification issued by the state of NH before the cutoff day would be under the same inhanced civil penalties as an out of state certification, proctored or not. Also, by not citing everyone with an out of state certification, is the NHMP tacitly abrogating the law? And if it is a boater safety issue, as secondcurve pointed out, could you argue that you took a proctered course and have no reason to expect a lesser civil penalty.

I am not trying to be argumentive, but to make sure I am confortable with my legal understanding.

bilproject · 04-12-2008, 12:27 AM

Bear Islander is right in this matter. New Hampshire has a resiprocity statue that agrees to accept among other things such as drivers license, a legal safe boating certificate (legal as defined by the issuing state) from any other state. This is designed to allow for free movement and travel about the country as required by the constitution and more so to get the torista bucks. Now the fly in the ointment might be that someone moves say from Maine to New Hampshire. Once a resident they would have to comply with the law in effect at that time in New Hampshire.

The end result is that if you can buy a state issued safe boaters certificate in Nevada from a hot dog vendor then New Hampshire is bound to accept it as meeting their requirement when presented by a non resident visiting the state. When the certificate is obtained, today or 10 years ago is of no consideration.

The legal argument is bull to. You would have just as big a legal problem if your proctored coarse certificate was over 5 years old and you had not attended any refresher coarse. Believe me if you are negligent in the operation of your boat, the more training and experience you have will hurt your pocket more in a court settlement than your ignorance. A violation by a novice is a mistake. A violation by an experienced trained person is willful.

I for one have a certificate from New Hampshire and my home state of NJ. We have always had a 16 hour class and 100 question proctored test. Soon we will have boat operator listed on our drivers license. Then boating infractions will go against our drivers license. This will also require an operator of a power boat over 10 HP to be at least 17.

As Bear Islander said the simple answer is YES a legal Maine certificate must be recognized by NH.

Skip · 04-12-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilproject

...Bear Islander is right in this matter. New Hampshire has a resiprocity statue that agrees to accept among other things such as drivers license, a legal safe boating certificate (legal as defined by the issuing state) from any other state. This is designed to allow for free movement and travel about the country as required by the constitution and more so to get the torista bucks. Now the fly in the ointment might be that someone moves say from Maine to New Hampshire. Once a resident they would have to comply with the law in effect at that time in New Hampshire...

This has also been explained in detail in a previous thread.

The statute that allows reciprocity between states in reference to driver's licenses is a clear and specific statute related to motor vehicles. In addition, while you are free to move about the country you are not constitutionally guaranteed the "right" to a driver's license....in fact a driver's license is a privilege that is heavily regulated by the State of issuance.

And even with reciprocity you must still follow reasonable guidelines and restrictions of the particular state you are operating in. In the case of motor vehicle laws, age of operation is a perfect example. In some States 14 and 15 year olds are allowed to drive under certain licenses. However, they cannot use that license in NH under the current reciprocity clause. They must meet the higher age standard NH has imposed on its driver's while in the State of New Hampshire.

Finally, the reciprocity clause that State's utilize in reference to driver's licenses aren't tied to constitutional arguments, rather they are guidelines imposed and encouraged on States by the Federal Government. And how do the Feds keep States in line? Why easy, either comply with federal guidelines or lose federal highway dollars. Perfect example? Federally imposed speed limits on state and local roadways.

Anyway, this theory has already been discussed and debunked in a number of previous threads.....

In closing I once again will offer up another infamous boating regulation example often quoted in from the "Boater's Guide" as gospel, when in deed no such general legislation exists in this State.

Someone please show me the RSA or Administrative Code that bans all watercraft from overnight mooring in New Hampshire without the necessary permit.

My .02

Ropetow · 04-12-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilproject

Now the fly in the ointment might be that someone moves say from Maine to New Hampshire. Once a resident they would have to comply with the law in effect at that time in New Hampshire.

Here's an odd one for you. I know a guy who lives in the western part of the state and did his boating in VT. He and the family got their licenses/certificates for VT online. They are issued by the VT State Police and have the NASBLA approval. He now boats on the Big Lake also. Logic tells me that he'd need a NH certificate, since they are NH residents (and were when they got their certificates) and their VT certificates were earned online. He said the Boater Ed folks at the Dept of Safety / MP offices told him no, his VT certificate was fine as it was issued by the state and it doesn't matter where he lives. Where's the logic here?

Biggus · 04-12-2008, 10:36 AM

Very interesting, I see the state of Maine does not offer a boaters safety course.

http://www.boat-ed.com/#states

Looks like I will be attending the NH course after all.

Thanks for the help folks!

Airwaves · 04-12-2008, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilproject
Bear Islander is right in this matter. New Hampshire has a resiprocity statue that agrees to accept among other things such as drivers license, a legal safe boating certificate (legal as defined by the issuing state) from any other state.

Actually when it comes to the boating certificate that's not quite true. NH does not recognize ALL out of state boating certificates.

For example there is no mandatory boating certificate law in Massachusetts, so NH does not recognize one that is issued by the Massachusetts Environmental Police.

NH only recognizes out of state certificates that meet or exceed NASBLA standards. Check with the Marine Patrol to see if the list includes your state.

Bear Islander · 04-13-2008, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Actually when it comes to the boating certificate that's not quite true. NH does not recognize ALL out of state boating certificates.

For example there is no mandatory boating certificate law in Massachusetts, so NH does not recognize one that is issued by the Massachusetts Environmental Police.

NH only recognizes out of state certificates that meet or exceed NASBLA standards. Check with the Marine Patrol to see if the list includes your state.

Wrong Again.

A Certificate from the Massachusetts Environmental Police is good in New Hampshire.

Skip · 04-13-2008, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

...A Certificate from the Massachusetts Environmental Police is good in New Hampshire...

That is correct. This course is a NASBLA certified proctored classroom course and exam offered free by the MA Environmental Police, and has a reputation of being an excellent source of boating education.

If you are from the commonwealth you can read more about the course HERE and get details on how to enroll in a class near you, if need be.

Phantom · 04-13-2008, 08:54 AM

ABSOLUTELY WRONG AIRWAVES !!

First of all - Mass does have a mandatory Boater Ed Cert course in place and has had one long before NH.

Second - it's a class room based course with proctored exam.

Third -- If completed, it is NASBLA approved

The difference between the Mass law and other states is that it is only Required of "minors" (under the age of 18, but older than 10, as I recall) to have if operating a powercraft or PWC. It is only recommended for adults.

It is Amazing how we can turn a simple question thread into a debate!! Boggles my mind.

Neanderthal Thunder · 04-13-2008, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

It is Amazing how we can turn a simple question thread into a debate!! Boggles my mind.

We're trying to clear things up. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, you know!

Seeker · 04-13-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggus

Very interesting, I see the state of Maine does not offer a boaters safety course.

http://www.boat-ed.com/#states

Looks like I will be attending the NH course after all.

Thanks for the help folks!

You may also take the US Power Squadron course with proctored exam although it usually runs 6 or 7 2 hour classes and may put you into boating season before you complete it.

Sunset Bob · 04-13-2008, 10:46 AM

I took the online test the last day you could in NH (12/31/06) but the date issued is 2/5/07. I took the test online before the deadline but date of issue is after the deadline is my certificate legal?
My certificate is from the state of NH and is NASBLA appoved

KonaChick · 04-13-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset Bob

I took the online test the last day you could in NH (12/31/06) but the date issued is 2/5/07. I took the test online before the deadline but date of issue is after the deadline is my certificate legal?
My certificate is from the state of NH and is NASBLA appoved

I did the same thing and no need to worry, we're fine.

Sunset Bob · 04-13-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KonaChick

I did the same thing and no need to worry, we're fine.

Thanks KonaChick that is what I thought but wasn't sure.

Airwaves · 04-13-2008, 12:48 PM

Don't get your knickers all in a bind!

Originally posted by Phantom:

Quote:

ABSOLUTELY WRONG AIRWAVES !!

First of all - Mass does have a mandatory Boater Ed Cert course in place and has had one long before NH.

Second - it's a class room based course with proctored exam.

Third -- If completed, it is NASBLA approved

The difference between the Mass law and other states is that it is only Required of "minors" (under the age of 18, but older than 10, as I recall) to have if operating a powercraft or PWC. It is only recommended for adults.

It is Amazing how we can turn a simple question thread into a debate!! Boggles my mind.

I thought I had read somewhere that NH did not accept a Mass certificate because Massachusetts does not have a mandatory boater education law. Massachusetts boater education law is very limited.

Quote:

http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dle/boatinglawsummary.htm
Safety Education Certification. Youth who are between 12 and 15 years of age must complete an approved basic boating course in order to operate a motorboat without adult supervision. Upon successful completion of such a course, students are issued a state "boating safety certificate" which must be in the possession of the certified operator when underway. Personal watercraft users who are 16 or 17 years of age must also complete such a boating course. (Persons less than 16 years of age are not allowed to operate personal watercraft.)

CaptDan · 05-12-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Listen to Skip. He does his homework.

What he is saying, I believe, is that if you choose to boat in NH using a boating certificate that was earned online from another state, after the NH cutoff, then you are opening yourself up to potential liability. For example, if you plow into another boat and kill someone and your license was earned yesterday, in the state of Maine, online, you're going to likely be sued in civil court. If you have lots of assets, you potentially could be exposed to a large judgement. The logic behind the case will be that you didn't comply with the legalities of NH law regarding boater safety and as a result you are liable for killing someone since you didn't bother to get the proper safety training.

True... however. If one kills someone on the lake, NH boating cert OR not... your liable...

VtSteve · 05-13-2008, 07:50 PM

I think regardless of the state or legal requirement, Every boater should take these courses and online boating aids. They're quite well done now, and are a Must for newbies.

I am a bit disappointed at the lack of course here from the USCG, given their new mansion on the lake. The PS can only do so much. The more specialized training and education needed on much larger lakes, this one here, and the Great Lakes especially. Everyone should review these online training aids at a bare minimum.

Airwaves · 05-14-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VtSteve
I am a bit disappointed at the lack of course here from the USCG, given their new mansion on the lake. The PS can only do so much.

I can shed a little light on that by briefly talking out of school. (don't tell anyone

)

When I was actively involved in the USCGAux my Division did try to establish a presence on Lake Winnipesaukee. We conducted a number of what were then called Courtesy Marine Examinations (now called Vessel Safety Checks) and we had hopes of establishing at least one flotilla on the lake. The Marine Patrol requested that we stop doing them because they said essentially it was their turf. I personally had a conversation with the director (don't recall if it was Flynn, Barrett or someone else) about this.

Also you may remember the USCGAux briefly set up a radio direction post somewhere near Gunstock. I think it was at the request of CG Group Portland, but I could be wrong about that, because chatter on VHF Channel 16 from the lake was inteferring with Coast Guard communication on the distress frequency out of Portland. That didn't go over very well either.

So basically the Coast Guard Auxililary (the civilian/education arm of the Coast Guard) was invited to leave the lake.

If I don't have this exactly right forgive me, it was a while ago (I want to say early to mid 90's). Perhaps one of the other USCGAuxiliarists that are still active on the forum can shed more light.

There are Coast Guard Auxiliary education courses held in some of the NH border towns with Mass and ME that cover NH regulation.

What USCG mansion on the lake are you talking about, did I miss an email from someone????

NightWing · 05-16-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VtSteve

I am a bit disappointed at the lack of course here from the USCG, given their new mansion on the lake.

The CG has no facilities on the lake. The big building on the lake in Glendale is part of the NH Department Of Safety and is NH Marine Patrol Headquarters.

The big 41 footer out front was CG surplus and has been operated on the lake by MP for several years.

04-11-2008, 04:25 PM	#4
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Unfortunatel you continue to give bad advice... No pet theory. Just a direct phone call to the LT at Marine Patrol. I will repeat it once again, as an individual with several decades experience in interpreting the criminal code in this State. The law now requires a proctored exam. This portion of the law which encompasses several different portions of the applicable RSAs in addition to the one cherry picked by BI, has not been waived. Direct from a conversation with NHMP, they are aware of the requirements of the law but stated that they do not have the resources to continuously verify if an out-of-state NASBLA certificate was obtained by a proctored exam or an on-line process. Therefore, once again directly from the NHMP, they cannot enforce the proctored exam provision as required by the RSA. What does that mean? If you have an on-line generated NASBLA certificate from another State the NHMP currently will not enforce that provision. And I will reiterate once again, the burden of proof in an accompanying civil case is a much lower standard than a criminal proceeding. One only has to review the infamous Littlefield criminal and civil transcripts to obtain a text book example of that. If you choose to boat in New Hampshire with an on-line certificate from another State that was issued after the January 1st deadline you subject yourself to enhanced civil repercussions. That you don't appear to understand this concept is excusable, as you do not have the same background or experience in these matters as I do. But please, don't let someone else suffer needlessly because of your own ignorance in the matter... In the end it is for the reader to determine the credibility of the poster in these matters. I will stand on the reputation I have cultivated here over a number of years in reference to legal matters within the State and hope that anyone taking the time to read my opinion carefully follows my advice and simply takes a minor additional step and obtain a proctored NASBLA certificate.

04-11-2008, 11:31 PM	#8
Skip Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dover, NH Posts: 1,615 Thanks: 256 Thanked 514 Times in 182 Posts	Oops...let me clarify Secondcurve made it much clearer than I did! There is no civil penalty for simply being stopped by NHMP. All NHMP is going to do is ignore the requirement that all certificates be granted via a proctored exam for reasons already stated. Your greater exposure occurs, as secondcurve observes, if you are involved in an incident that eventually leads to civil process. Confusing? You bet! That precisely is why there is no simple answer to this question. One thing is easy though. In the few States that I am aware that still offer the NASBLA certified on-line certificate, each one still has various options on how to obtain a proctored exam. The only way to be in full compliance with the RSA, both criminally and especially civilly, is to obtain your certificate utilizing that methology. And if in the process it makes you a little better of a boater, don't we all benefit?

04-13-2008, 08:54 AM	#17
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	ABSOLUTELY WRONG AIRWAVES !! First of all - Mass does have a mandatory Boater Ed Cert course in place and has had one long before NH. Second - it's a class room based course with proctored exam. Third -- If completed, it is NASBLA approved The difference between the Mass law and other states is that it is only Required of "minors" (under the age of 18, but older than 10, as I recall) to have if operating a powercraft or PWC. It is only recommended for adults. It is Amazing how we can turn a simple question thread into a debate!! Boggles my mind. __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

04-13-2008, 10:46 AM	#20
Sunset Bob Deceased Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,701 Thanks: 115 Thanked 25 Times in 13 Posts	One more queseion I took the online test the last day you could in NH (12/31/06) but the date issued is 2/5/07. I took the test online before the deadline but date of issue is after the deadline is my certificate legal? My certificate is from the state of NH and is NASBLA appoved

04-11-2008, 01:10 PM	#1
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	If you have a certificate issued by the State of Maine it is good in New Hampshire. It doesn't matter if you got in on line or not. The only hassle you are likely to receive is on this forum. There are people here that do not like that out of state certificates are good in NH. Confusing people that are only asking a simple question is not appropriate.

04-11-2008, 03:46 PM	#3
Bear Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bear Island Posts: 1,764 Thanks: 32 Thanked 441 Times in 207 Posts	What you are doing is so unfair.... A person comes to the forum for a simple answer to a basic question. The answer to his question is YES It is not reasonable to use the question as an opportunity to trot out pet theories. If you want to start a thread and hash out your legal theories fine. But to hijack a simple question into this mess is wrong. We settled this last summer, out of state certificates are good in NH. Not liking that answer is no good reason to throw mud on a simple question. You posted New Hampshire State law is clear, on line certificates obtained after January 1st are not valid in New Hampshire. Wrong! The law is not clear at all. You are taking a couple of words and attaching your own meaning to them. Safe Boater Education Section 270-D:15 270-D:15 Certificate Not Required. – A person shall not be required to obtain a certificate of boating safety education if the person holds a certificate from any state indicating successful completion of boating safety education that meets or exceeds the requirements of this subdivision, a certificate from the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary, or a certificate from the United States Power Squadron. It does say quite clearly "meets or exceeds". You have decided that some out of state certificates do not apply. That is your opinion. It is the determination of the Marine Patrol that all NASBLA certificates issued by other states apply. That is the way the Marine Patrol interprets "meets or exceeds". I happen to agree with your interpretation and not the Marine Patrol's. But to say it is clear is not accurate. In any event we are not the Marine Patrol, and their position IS clear.

04-11-2008, 08:24 PM	#5
wehatetoquitit Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: California in Winter, Bear Island in Summer Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well Skip, now I am really confused. If I am stoped by MP for some infraction, not involving another boat and I have an on-line NASBLA cert. what enhanced civil penalties would I be liable for. If another boat was involved (accident) and I have a NH proctored cert., I could see the opposing atty. arguing that I have taken a proctered exam and therefore the penalties should be greater, because I should have known better. I thought the certification program was about education. And if everyone has some degree of education, boating in general should be safer. l still don't understand why enhanced penatlies for not having a proctored cert. What if a certificate is issued by another state with a proctered exam, but the rules in that state differ from NH, would the same enhanced civil penalties apply? Just trying to understand so I can stay out of trouble.

04-11-2008, 08:58 PM	#6
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,329 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	Listen to Skip. He does his homework. What he is saying, I believe, is that if you choose to boat in NH using a boating certificate that was earned online from another state, after the NH cutoff, then you are opening yourself up to potential liability. For example, if you plow into another boat and kill someone and your license was earned yesterday, in the state of Maine, online, you're going to likely be sued in civil court. If you have lots of assets, you potentially could be exposed to a large judgement. The logic behind the case will be that you didn't comply with the legalities of NH law regarding boater safety and as a result you are liable for killing someone since you didn't bother to get the proper safety training.

04-12-2008, 12:13 AM	#9
wehatetoquitit Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: California in Winter, Bear Island in Summer Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If I am understanding this correctly, it has nothing to do with boater safety, but rather complying with the letter of the law. If it has to do with boater safety, then on line certification issued by the state of NH before the cutoff day would be under the same inhanced civil penalties as an out of state certification, proctored or not. Also, by not citing everyone with an out of state certification, is the NHMP tacitly abrogating the law? And if it is a boater safety issue, as secondcurve pointed out, could you argue that you took a proctered course and have no reason to expect a lesser civil penalty. I am not trying to be argumentive, but to make sure I am confortable with my legal understanding.

04-12-2008, 12:27 AM	#10
bilproject Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bear Island/Fort Myers, Fla Posts: 230 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1 Thanked 59 Times in 41 Posts	Bear Islander is right in this matter. New Hampshire has a resiprocity statue that agrees to accept among other things such as drivers license, a legal safe boating certificate (legal as defined by the issuing state) from any other state. This is designed to allow for free movement and travel about the country as required by the constitution and more so to get the torista bucks. Now the fly in the ointment might be that someone moves say from Maine to New Hampshire. Once a resident they would have to comply with the law in effect at that time in New Hampshire. The end result is that if you can buy a state issued safe boaters certificate in Nevada from a hot dog vendor then New Hampshire is bound to accept it as meeting their requirement when presented by a non resident visiting the state. When the certificate is obtained, today or 10 years ago is of no consideration. The legal argument is bull to. You would have just as big a legal problem if your proctored coarse certificate was over 5 years old and you had not attended any refresher coarse. Believe me if you are negligent in the operation of your boat, the more training and experience you have will hurt your pocket more in a court settlement than your ignorance. A violation by a novice is a mistake. A violation by an experienced trained person is willful. I for one have a certificate from New Hampshire and my home state of NJ. We have always had a 16 hour class and 100 question proctored test. Soon we will have boat operator listed on our drivers license. Then boating infractions will go against our drivers license. This will also require an operator of a power boat over 10 HP to be at least 17. As Bear Islander said the simple answer is YES a legal Maine certificate must be recognized by NH.

04-12-2008, 10:36 AM	#13
Biggus Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sebago Lake Posts: 20 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Very interesting, I see the state of Maine does not offer a boaters safety course. http://www.boat-ed.com/#states Looks like I will be attending the NH course after all. Thanks for the help folks!

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05-13-2008, 07:50 PM	#25
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	I think regardless of the state or legal requirement, Every boater should take these courses and online boating aids. They're quite well done now, and are a Must for newbies. I am a bit disappointed at the lack of course here from the USCG, given their new mansion on the lake. The PS can only do so much. The more specialized training and education needed on much larger lakes, this one here, and the Great Lakes especially. Everyone should review these online training aids at a bare minimum.