Treasure hunting in Lake Winnipesaukee

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

"One man's trash is another man's treasure"

I was wondering how long it would take before someone would bring this up… Yup, been there before, in fact I have petition the state to declare a site an “historical significant site” and guess what they had to say… It was about the same thing they have to say about anything… “You do the research; you spend your money to prove your point and just maybe we’ll consider it…”

Isn’t it grand to be a young lawyer? You think you have the world by the short hairs, only to find out, nobody really cares… You are most welcome to come dive with me and record the infractions I make to the State’s penal code regarding antiquity. Although, you will get more satisfaction trying to nail me on dive flag ordnance. But, after 30 years of diving I got that one covered too, in fact, I dare say I’m the only diver in the lake who actually dives with a legal flag… Your job is to determine just how far I am from said flag…

[hazelnut]

W. Diver, Keep up the good work! Not only are you providing excellent stories but in my opinion you are slowly cleaning up the bottom of the lake.
I highly doubt any authorities are going to hunt you down anytime soon. Wow what a weird choice of words for a first post from ocgirl?

[ocgirl]

It was my first post. I am generally a easy going person but this issue is important to me. This subject is one that few people realize but it is valid because pot hunting is against the law. If you have questions or concerns call the AG's office or ask the State Archaeologist who issues the permits.

[jrc]

By what event does trash become an historic resource?

I mean, if someone threw a beer bottle in the lake today, I can swim down, pick it up, drive to Mass and get my 5 cent deposit right? What if they threw it last year, 10 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 2000 years ago, when does it become a historic resource?

Does it become this on it's own or does someone have to declare it as such. Since the law says you have do this "knowingly" how can anyone be charged unless it's some well establish historic site.

[Orion]

You can't get the deposit back on the 200 year old bottle because the barcodes become illegible.

The reality is, there are no "archeologists" mining Winni for historic treasures. If Winni Diver doesn't find it, it'll just keep sinking into the silt and nobody gets it.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by ocgirl

It was my first post. I am generally a easy going person but this issue is important to me. This subject is one that few people realize but it is valid because pot hunting is against the law. If you have questions or concerns call the AG's office or ask the State Archaeologist who issues the permits.

So we're required by law to leave all the former garbage down there to decay and lie in silt and muck for eternity? And what would be the "cut off date" that defines antiquity? I've brought up whiskey bottles from the 1800s, and beer cans from the 2000s. Guess I should've left them.

One would think that NH lawmakers might have more pressing, relevant matters to address.

Happy treasure hunting!

(Paging Diver1111...you should share your slide show...)

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

...I dare say I’m the only diver in the lake who actually dives with a legal flag… Your job is to determine just how far I am from said flag…

Speaking of legal flags, I know what the law says, and I've seen your flag. But where does one find such a flag? Every dive shop and online vendor sells flags, but I've never seen one that meets the following criteria...

New Hampshire Revised Statute Title XXII, Chapter 270, Section 270:31, Scuba Diving and Snorkeling:

I. Any person engaged in scuba diving on any of the public waters of the state and any person engaged in snorkeling in normally traveled navigable public waters shall have a diver's flag, consisting of a red flag with a diagonal white stripe, displayed indicating that diving activities are in progress. The bottom of said flag shall extend at least 3 feet above the surface of the water, the view of which shall be unobstructed for 360 degrees.

I'd say that the bottom of just about every flag that I've ever seen on the Lake (excluding yours), including the one I own and use regularly, is only about 18-20 inches above the surface. I might try modifying mine this year to make it compliant.

[Sman]

I have only been down about 40 ft in Lake Winni, It seemed to start to get pretty dark, I actually like diving when there is more light, so not sure I will ever get to see first hand the answer to the second part of my question, which is...

How deep have you guys been in the lake and is there any light at all?

And thanks for the stories and information

[Grant]

In Winnipesaukee, I don't think I've been deeper than 75 or 80 feet. Pretty dark at that depth, too.

Elsewhere, I've been to 130-140 fsw, and it's been a bit brighter.

[scubajay1153]

Go see Dave over at the Ship's Store at Fay's. I was in there a couple days ago and he had some floats with flag sticks that are easily over 3 feet tall and he has dive flags in stock.

Besides DW and Fathom's you have Aquanuts Scuba in Concord as well on Manchester St at Airport Rd.

Pot hunting? Do I have to take a safety course before I hunt for them? And wear an orange hat or wetsuit so others searching for the elusive bean crock pot don't accidentaly speargun me whilst searching the bottom for rubbish? What's the limit a day?

Speaking of pot....off of a local swimming beach a few years ago I found a very nicely made hand blown pot pipe. Exquisite colors and all. Turned it in the cops but at last check no one had come in to claim it....wonder why....

A lot of neat pottery shards laying around in the miscellaneous stuff off the Messer Street boat ramp for those interested in a shallow dive/snorkel....it's a nice and toasty 43 there right now so you'll need at least a 3mm shorty...lol

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

As with everything, if you do it often enough someone is going to take issue. Mine comes from an incident at Bear Island, namely diving in the channel doing an archival survey of the sunken horse barge. There was a crazy old lady who lived on the Island and was very put out with us being there day after day. She kept calling the MPs to complain and of course the MP Officer would come to roused us out of there. Naturally we felt we were well within our rights to be there and to counter the Officer’s advancements, we logged a complaint that he was in fact violating the Dive Fag ordnance. Out came the rule book and the tape measure, we were busted again… All’s well that ends well, we decided to call it a draw and all complaints were dropped, besides our mission was complete, however, some valuable lessons were learned that day…

I have modified my dive flag to exceed the state regulations by simply replacing the ¼” fiberglass shaft with a 6’ one. The reason most all flags are to short is; they have to be able to fit within the dive bag when you travel, but New Hampshire being New Hampshire they have their own way of doing things. The reason the state is not willing to conform to rest of the world standards is they want some obscure law in which to rain in nefarious divers such as myself… I’m sure you can see this very same approach on hundreds of other issues concerning the state; such as, a national ID… By bringing my equipment into the State’s standards, it’s one less thing they can use against me when I’m caught looting the States treasures…

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

All the way to the bottom of the deepest hole 213'... What's down there and was there any light? 12 feet of silt and no light at all. The light only penetrates to about 130 feet in the lake. The Mt. Washington could have been right next to us and we would have never seen it.


Your next question is, why??? We were training to dive the shipwreck André Dora, doing a mixed gas dive with decompression stops. It was all for nothing as our dive was canceled just before we entered water as two divers on another boat died just before us. After hearing the news and watching the recovery we decided there nothing down there we needed to see.

PS: Don’t even start with the chart says the deepest point is 187’… it’s wrong…

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

All the way to the bottom of the deepest hole 213'... What's down there and was there any light? 12 feet of silt and no light at all. The light only penetrates to about 130 feet in the lake. The Mt. Washington could have been right next to us and we would have never seen it.


Your next question is, why??? We were training to dive the shipwreck André Dora, doing a mixed gas dive with decompression stops. It was all for nothing as our dive was canceled just before we entered water as two divers on another boat died just before us. After hearing the news and watching the recovery we decided there nothing down there we needed to see.

PS: Don’t even start with the chart says the deepest point is 187’… it’s wrong…

The Andrea Doria. That accident fascinated me as a kid in the 1970's. I still like to look up stories about it. I guess she settled on a rather deep ocean floor...that is something I didn't know.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

We were training to dive the shipwreck André Dora, doing a mixed gas dive with decompression stops.
PS: Don’t even start with the chart says the deepest point is 187’… it’s wrong…

My B-in-law did the Andrea Doria.By the way,my Bizar chart shows 213ft as the deepest.

[hilltopper]

Anyone ever read Shadow Divers? Good book and it talks about the Andre Doria quite often. This book is the only reason I know what the heck Winnipesaukee Divers is talking about when he says "mixed gas".

[Sman]

Shadow Divers great book yes! Must read for any diver and a great read if you don't dive

[Lake Fan]

[QUOTE=Grant;69155]Speaking of legal flags, I know what the law says, and I've seen your flag. But where does one find such a flag? Every dive shop and online vendor sells flags, but I've never seen one that meets the following criteria...

New Hampshire Revised Statute Title XXII, Chapter 270, Section 270:31, Scuba Diving and Snorkeling:

I. Any person engaged in scuba diving on any of the public waters of the state and any person engaged in snorkeling in normally traveled navigable public waters shall have a diver's flag, consisting of a red flag with a diagonal white stripe, displayed indicating that diving activities are in progress. The bottom of said flag shall extend at least 3 feet above the surface of the water, the view of which shall be unobstructed for 360 degrees.

I got hassled the Marine Patrol while diving on the Lady a few years back. He cited that same law. He wasn't too impressed when I mentioned that most of the official navigation markers in the lake aren't even 3' high.

[Grant]

Originally Posted by Lake Fan

I got hassled the Marine Patrol while diving on the Lady a few years back. He cited that same law. He wasn't too impressed when I mentioned that most of the official navigation markers in the lake aren't even 3' high.

Great point, although I doubt it would sway the MP...

I think I'm going to modify my flag this spring to be NH-compliant. I just leave it up there anyway. Longer rod on the same float/weight. Luckily, we don't even need one in our local hole (no boats) down here, and don't use them on ocean dives. But with the way some folks disregard dive flags on Winni, I suppose bigger is better.

Looks like this will require a trip to Bradleys...

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

I have four or five dive flags, two that are state compliant and the others are just standard issue. We always mark our boat with a dive flag as well. Our thinking is that it may lend some explanation as to why our boat is anchored where it is. This tick doesn’t always work, as sometimes it draws more attention than warranted. A lot of people think they own all the water in front of their property and if we're diving there, we must be up to no good… So, out they come (endangering other divers that may still be in the water) demanding to know just what we’re looking for and if they happen to have a waterline nearby, they can get downright unfriendly.

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

One day my old dive buddy Cliff suggests we do an exploratory dive in Wolfeboro Bay to find the reputed “One Horse Open Sleigh” that went through ice about a hundred years ago. “Won’t this make a great dive site to take accomplished students”, he said. I thought to myself, “What’s wrong with this picture”? The thought of two of us exploring the bottom of Wolfeboro bay; looking for something that had been lost and written about in a book a hundred years ago. What’s the chance of finding this relic? But, any reason to go exploring is good enough, besides we could find all sorts of other lost treasures.

It didn’t take long to find it, maybe the second or third dive and there it was right where the book said it was. It was a black sleigh with red pin stripping sitting upright on the bottom. How cool is that? The harness was still attached and both Cliff and I had the same idea at same time. There must be some brass buckles, bells and adornments somewhere and we started to pull them up out of the murky bottom. I watched as Cliff followed a section the harness out for a ways, tugging it up into view. He finally got to the end and gave a big yank and the whole horse’s head popped up out of the bottom… The look on Cliff face was priceless as he gasped for air and lurched back, I heard a muffled scream as he couldn’t drop it fast enough. Cliff signaled to me with a diagonal hand slash across his chest ending with a fist and thumb up; meaning this dive is over, right now. As we began our assent back to the surface, Cliff’s eyes were as big as saucers while he kept shaking his head form side to side and our rapid ascent alarms were chipping all the way up. Once on the surface Cliff spit out is regulator and gasped for fresh air. I said, “Wow that was some find; what are you going to do with your horse head?” Cliff’s only comment was, “I’ve had enough let’s get out of here”.

The “One Horse Open Sleigh” is still down there complete with the harness, brass buckles, bells and adornments and yes, the horse. We never did take any students to the site; Cliff thought it might be too intense for new divers, besides it’s a little deep and in the middle of the bay. I never could find the site again, its deep, dark and cold down there and the visibility is so poor I could have swam right past it on several occasions and never seen it.

[Coolbreeze]

What is the story behind the accident? Was the sleigh driver from Mass. by chance?

[Island Life]

Originally Posted by Winnipesaukee Divers

t didn’t take long to find it, maybe the second or third dive and there it was right where the book said it was. It was a black sleigh with red pin stripping sitting upright on the bottom. How cool is that? The harness was still attached and both Cliff and I had the same idea at same time. There must be some brass buckles, bells and adornments somewhere and we started to pull them up out of the murky bottom. I watched as Cliff followed a section the harness out for a ways, tugging it up into view. He finally got to the end and gave a big yank and the whole horse’s head popped up out of the bottom…

Hope you called the AG's office or asked the State Archaeologist who issues the permits, otherwise you'll hear from our newest poster.

[scubajay1153]

2 summers ago another FD scuba diver and I borrowed a buddies boat with a depthfinder/fish finder and set out to dive the Lady of the Lake and then the train wreck off the Weirs. The Lady was easy to find and dive and after a surface break and a a snack we headed back. We trolled back and forth off the Weirs looking for the tell tale bottom indications for the train as well as trying to line up the shore markers we were told about and finally found a promising ridge on the bottom that could be our wreckage. Down we go and after searching back and forth we realize we found nothing but a rock formation that was a few feet high and wide but a good hundred or morre feet long. Lisa and I realized that by the depth we were at (about 60 feet) when we got to the end of the rocks that we had indeed missed our mark. Dejected we decided to follow a compass heading back to our anchor line (tied to a cleat mind you! :P). About half way back in 50ish feet of water I felt a presence and that it seemed a wee darker then normal for this depth. We stopped swimming a nd looked up to find we were looking at what appears to be a paddle wheel from an old steam ship or some other lake vessel. I of course left the camera on the boat but I estimate the wheel was a good 2 feet wide and at least 12 feet high. As it is standing completely upright in the muck with at least a few feet sunk below view. Some of the wooden pieces are still intact as well. I will try to find it again this summer and get some pictures so maybe it can be identified.

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

The train wreck is pretty close to where it’s indicated on the charts. The operative word here is “wreck”, meaning not much recognizable. It looks like a pile of old boards and some iron wheels strewn about the bottom. The real treasure (there I go, loosely using that word again) is further down the slope about 90 feet deep are six huge rolls of paper, you can add your name to the honor roll.

A better dive site in that area is the “Pile Driver” also on the chart. This is a 90 foot long, steam barge with derrick on one end, sitting upright on the bottom. There is a pile of coal, cables, winches and tools still on the deck. The story is; it was working barge used to put in pilings around the lake and was commission as a viewing platform to watch the greatest fireworks display at Weirs Beach on the fourth of July, 1922 (marking some momentous event for the town). There was this lavish party on board and the Champagne was flowing. When the first of the fireworks went off all the party goers crowed to the starboard side for a better view. Water shipped over the side and down she went 65 feet to the bottom. I seem to recall reading that there were a hundred drunken people in the water in the middle of the night, but all managed to survive. The last time I was at the wreck, the Champagne gasses and bottles were everywhere as well as the tools.

Both of these wrecks are deep and cold, so be prepared. Pick a bright sunny day and mid-day is best.

[Grant]

Is that a different barge than the one right off of Weirs (just left of the "Weirscam" view)? Senter Cove Guy and I dove that one in late August, and I think it was 40-49 feet, but I didn't see any bottles. Cool wreck, though! Even though it was August -- peak Lake temps -- I can say that definitely the coldest dive I've had in Winni.

Thanks for the sleigh horse head story. I had heard someone relay that one on the Lady Go Diva one summer Sunday, but I never did learn who it had actually happened to. I should've figured it was you!

[winnidiver]

finely, I got the boat done today.Mechanical it has been ready to go for two weeks.Today I got the cleaning and electronics installed.I have to work tomorrow,but next weekend it will be diving and fishing.
Reading these posts have reminded me of a lot of places I have not seen in years.Thanks all for the list,I will try to get to some of them this summer.
Now if we can just have some sun next weekend,It doesn't have to be warm,just sunny would be nice.

[ACutAbove]

This is a very interesting read. I have only done my check out dives and that was a few yrs ago. I have always wanted to dive the lake, mabey this will be the yr, if I am not to busy working all summer.
Mabey a group dive or something???? Who rents equiptment around here I have the basics but never thought I would dive enough to justify buying everything.
Also has anyone dove Squam lake? Is there anything worth seeing there???

[Winnipesaukee Divers]

At Dive Winnipesaukee in Wolfe City. Tom can rent you anything you want… You can also get; a refresher course, charter trips or contacts to other dive buddies. Then after the dive you can venture across the street to the Wolfeboro Diner and get the best burger in town…

I mention the restaurant because, the average dive; is 45’ in 65 degrees water for 45 minutes, consumes 3,000 calories. Not to mention when the dive is over you still have shelp your gear around, all in all you have had a pretty good workout and you and could eat that horse… Not that the Diner is serving horse of course, just a play on words from a previous post.

[Senter Cove Guy]

Originally Posted by scubajay1153

2 summers ago another FD scuba diver and I borrowed a buddies boat with a depthfinder/fish finder and set out to dive the Lady of the Lake and then the train wreck off the Weirs. The Lady was easy to find and dive and after a surface break and a a snack we headed back. We trolled back and forth off the Weirs looking for the tell tale bottom indications for the train as well as trying to line up the shore markers we were told about and finally found a promising ridge on the bottom that could be our wreckage. Down we go and after searching back and forth we realize we found nothing but a rock formation that was a few feet high and wide but a good hundred or morre feet long. Lisa and I realized that by the depth we were at (about 60 feet) when we got to the end of the rocks that we had indeed missed our mark. Dejected we decided to follow a compass heading back to our anchor line (tied to a cleat mind you! :P). About half way back in 50ish feet of water I felt a presence and that it seemed a wee darker then normal for this depth. We stopped swimming a nd looked up to find we were looking at what appears to be a paddle wheel from an old steam ship or some other lake vessel. I of course left the camera on the boat but I estimate the wheel was a good 2 feet wide and at least 12 feet high. As it is standing completely upright in the muck with at least a few feet sunk below view. Some of the wooden pieces are still intact as well. I will try to find it again this summer and get some pictures so maybe it can be identified.

Have you had an opportunity to revisit this site?