Life after speed limits

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

If you are afraid that you can not be seen with your current visibility I suggested using a kayak "safety flag" (you called it a silly little flag) to help you be seen better than you are now. I was trying to be helpful lady.

I'm not saying that you weren't tryng to be helpful - my point is that I'm plenty visible and I tried to explain yet again why adding a flag is not helpful advice - if it would really increase my visibility without negatively affecting my paddling, than I would add a flag in a heartbeat.

Facts do not usually include words like "apparently" and "I'm almost certain". Those are not facts as far as I can tell. There could be other circumstances that cause you to believe that you have no visibility problem on Squam Lake not just speed. It is a different territory from Lake Winnipesaukee. Your conclusion that SPEED of other boats changes their visibility so it is unsafe for you is not justified.

I used the word "apparently" because I have no proof - only that I can't explain it any other way, so it is the apparent reason. Please explain why the "different territory" would make me any more visible.

I used the words "I'm almost certain", because we are talking about two different speed limits. If the bill was for a 40 mph maximum speed on Winni, than I could be much more certain. At some point speed impacts the ablility of powerboat operators to see me - I don't what the exact speed is.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

So I didn't believe you and guess what?You were wrong again.There appears to be many safety flags for visibility ON the water when you said all we'll find is flags for transporting kayaks.This was only the on the first half of the first page.I'm sure there is plenty more.OK now.tell me how I'm picking on you again by following YOUR challenge?Come on now,spin it up.

What I posted was: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”. So you do a google search and post some links, and then accuse me of being wrong again. (BTW: show me one time that I have been proven wrong on this forum). Most of your links were the exact same ones that Skipper posted - and all of your links (including the one on ebay) were people or companies who are trying to sell the same litle gimic flags. Where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? There aren't any. I posted that "Paddling.net is the largest paddling site – go there and check for yourself if you don’t believe me" - did you go there? No serious paddler uses these little flags because they are useless – and they do hinder rescue procedures – like rolling and self rescues – especially on windy days.

So, next time before you accuse me of being wrong, make sure that you actually understand what I posted.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

What I posted was: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”. So you do a google search and post some links, and then accuse me of being wrong again. (BTW: show me one time that I have been proven wrong on this forum).
So, next time before you accuse me of being wrong, make sure that you actually understand what I posted.

Again,since YOU asked let me make this simple for even a self professed highly educated person.Go to austinkayak.com and search for safety flag and up will appear the page I linked to in my last post with a,yup you guessed it,a safety flag.So this should put to rest your claim of no flag being found on a kayak website and your last one on NEVER being wrong on this forum.

[Bear Islander]

That pop up flag listed first looks great!

I ordered two.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

That pop up flag listed first looks great!

I ordered two.

If you're not kidding I think you made a good decision. If my wife went out more than a few hundred feet from shore in her Dirigo I would get her a flag also.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Seeker

If you're not kidding I think you made a good decision. If my wife went out more than a few hundred feet from shore in her Dirigo I would get her a flag also.

Why would I be kidding?

A fixed flag will get in the way and slow down a recovery. This pop up is a great idea. I hope they work.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

That pop up flag listed first looks great!

I ordered two.

They should definitely be Mandatory. It's getting dangerous out there with all of these boats you cannot see.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

OK SO... Evanstar please clear something up fo me because I am VERY interested in your response here. Is this or isn't this a direct quote from YOUR experience on SQUAM:

While kayaking on Squam last summer, my friend and I were both swamped by a speeding boat that passed within 40 feet of us and never even slowed down. So enforcement of current boating regulations seems to be the bigger issue here.

Go ahead and tell us that this was years ago and it doesn't matter. Explain this away, I am dying to hear the answer.

This one isn't even worth my time, because now you're just trying to find fault with anything that I have ever posted here - and that is just being argumentive.

But here's the factual explanation, which I've already explained at least one in the last month: I made this post more than 3 years ago - before I had ever kayaked on Winni - which was before high-speed powerboat operators on Winni had violate my 150 foot zone because they were going too fast to see me in time.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Again,since YOU asked let me make this simple for even a self professed highly educated person.Go to austinkayak.com and search for safety flag and up will appear the page I linked to in my last post with a,yup you guessed it,a safety flag.So this should put to rest your claim of no flag being found on a kayak website and your last one on NEVER being wrong on this forum.

Austinkayak.com is a store! It is not a major kayak or paddling organization! Retailers sell gimics as well as good gear - promomiting something to make a sale is not a professional endorcement.

My challenge was: "If this flag is so good, where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations?"

So where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? I still don't see any.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Austinkayak.com is a store! It is not a major kayak or paddling organization! Retailers sell gimics as well as good gear - promomiting something to make a sale is not a professional endorcement.
.

Nice try.Here's what you posted: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”.
Austin kayak is a kayak website and of course they are a store,where else would you buy a flag?So now it has to be an orginization?

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

I'm not saying that you weren't tryng to be helpful - my point is that I'm plenty visible and I tried to explain yet again why adding a flag is not helpful advice - if it would really increase my visibility without negatively affecting my paddling, than I would add a flag in a heartbeat.

So a flag is an inconvience to you? Are you kidding me? An item that makes you more visible and is meant to keep you safe? Geez, sorry to put you out.

A speed limit which makes YOU feel safe is an inconvenience to many that already feel safe but not to you... I think that if a speed limit does passes maybe some of the opponents should get together and come up with a list of ideas for legislation that will ACTUALLY make a difference in safety, such as mandating flags for kayaks more than 150' from shore, or instituting camp zones, or registrations for non-powered vessels in order to provide extra funding for marine patrol for enforcement of laws to keep everyone safe.

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by codeman671

So a flag is an inconvience to you? Are you kidding me? An item that makes you more visible and is meant to keep you safe? Geez, sorry to put you out.

A speed limit which makes YOU feel safe is an inconvenience to many that already feel safe but not to you... I think that if a speed limit does passes maybe some of the opponents should get together and come up with a list of ideas for legislation that will ACTUALLY make a difference in safety, such as mandating flags for kayaks more than 150' from shore, or instituting camp zones, or registrations for non-powered vessels in order to provide extra funding for marine patrol for enforcement of laws to keep everyone safe.

Codeman SO WELL SAID!!!!! I love this sentiment. God forbid we ask Evanstar to increase her visibility for our safety. It might "inconvenience" her. We wouldn't want to do that now would we?

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by codeman671

I think that if a speed limit does passes maybe some of the opponents should get together and come up with a list of ideas for legislation that will ACTUALLY make a difference in safety, such as mandating flags for kayaks more than 150' from shore, or instituting camp zones, or registrations for non-powered vessels in order to provide extra funding for marine patrol for enforcement of laws to keep everyone safe.

Let's give this venture a name...

The Evenstar Law for Safe Boating

P.S.- No smiles because this is a serious post...

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by codeman671

So a flag is an inconvience to you? Are you kidding me? An item that makes you more visible and is meant to keep you safe? Geez, sorry to put you out.

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Codeman SO WELL SAID!!!!! I love this sentiment. God forbid we ask Evanstar to increase her visibility for our safety. It might "inconvenience" her. We wouldn't want to do that now would we?

Originally Posted by GWC...

Let's give this venture a name...

The Evenstar Law for Safe Boating

P.S.- No smiles because this is a serious post...

From the Forum Rules:

“No "trolling" (trying to start arguments and upset people)!”

If these above 3 posts are not examples of trolling I don’t know what is.

This is not a matter of inconvenience – and you all know it, because I clearly explained my reasons for not using a flag several times. Yet you ignore my actual reasons and just continue to attack me and misrepresent my replies in lame attempts to discredit me and to make fun of me yet again. You are obviously trying to force me off these forums, because you can’t stand anyone who doesn’t agree with your narrow views. I have no idea why these types of posts are being allowed, since they are clearly against the forum rules.

The problem is not my lack of visibility, because I am very visible – the problem is that some powerboat owners are traveling at speeds that are greater than their ability to see smaller boats in time to stay out of their 150 foot zone. And this happens regularly enough to create a real danger to people like me, who use smaller boats on the lake.

Here are the facts:
1.) Visibility has NEVER been a problem for me on Squam Lake – because there is a 40 mph speed limit which apparently keeps powerboat operators from traveling faster than their ability to see. So I’m almost certain that a 45mph speed limit on Winni with have a similar effect (although, personally I think that 40 mph is a better limit).

2.) Those little flags are nothing but gimics. They are not large enough to increase visibility to an significant amount. Go to the site and look at the actual photo of that little streamer mounted on a kayak – it is barely visible. The surface area of one of my bright orange paddle blades is greater then any of those flags you linked to – and my moving paddle blade extends higher above the water! Yet when I stated that the most visible part of a kayak is the moving paddles, people here jumped all over me. The problem is most of you haven’t even been in a sea kayak, yet you and others have all sorts of “good” advice for me.

3.) Almost everything sold on the internet has glowing reviews posted about how good it is. Don’t believe everything that you read on the Internet, because not everyone is being totally honest. If this flag is so good, where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations? Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag” and all you’ll find is info on attaching a flag on your long sea kayak when you transport it on the roof of your car. Paddling.net is the largest paddling site – go there and check for yourself if you don’t believe me. No serious paddler uses these little flags because they are useless – and they do hinder rescue procedures – like rolling and self rescues – especially on windy days.

4.) Up in post #220 I wrote: “A flag that would be large enough and tall enough to actually make a difference in my visibility would make my kayak very unstable – and it would make my kayak practically impossible to steer in even a moderate breeze, since it would make my kayak like a weather-vane.” That is the truth. In order to increase my visibility to any meaningful degree, a flag would have to have a significantly larger surface area than my paddle blade and it would have to extend above the water higher than my paddle – such a flag would make my kayak totally unstable in any wind.

Stop trying to blame the dangerous conditions on us paddlers, when it doesn’t take a whole lot of common sense to see that high-speed powerboats are the ones putting us in danger.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Nice try.Here's what you posted: Go to any sea kayak or paddling website and do a search on “flag”.
Austin kayak is a kayak website and of course they are a store,where else would you buy a flag?So now it has to be an orginization?

I clearly stated that in my original post, yet you keep ignoring that part. See #3 above: that’s exactly what I posted earlier - Did you go to Paddling.net and check for yourself, like I posted? "Where are the endorsements from major kayak and paddling organizations?" And a store that has an internet site is not a kayak or paddling website – it’s a retail store! So get off my case!!!