Captain Bonehead

Slickcraft · 06-04-2008, 02:49 PM

I often find markers that are quite some distance away from where I remembered them to be. Then a close examination of the chart and maybe a GPS check reveals that it was actually a case of “memory drift”.

Be careful.

Mr. Moyer · 06-04-2008, 03:31 PM

I remeber that picture of the lower unit sitting in the witches from when it was posted on this forum. I think it was 2 years ago. Does anyone have that picture at their disposal? I would love to see that again, and any other disaster pictures from the granite monsters of winnie. I would like to send it to my friend is using my boat for a week this summer on the lake, as a friendly reminder of what can happen when you don't pay attention to the charts. Hopefully, we won't have any newer pictures after this season, but unfortuantely, I think it is inevitable.

Rattlesnake Guy · 06-05-2008, 12:35 AM

I am not embarrassed to admit that a few times when the chart just did not match what I was seeing I stopped and did not move until I figured out what went wrong. In all of these cases, in fact, I was not where my finger on the chart said I was. I would much rather bump a rock while stopped then find it quickly during my search for where the heck I am.

Orion · 06-05-2008, 09:20 AM

All excellent points. Also, don't think because your depth sounder says 25' of water, that your safe. There are some 24' rocks in there!

I've been boating on this lake for 45 years. Whenever I'm somewhere that I don't regularly travel, the chart is out. At night the GPS is also on, and we're travelling within the "new" speed limits. With one bonehead exception when I was on the lake when I was 17 in a very high-water Springtime, with no chart, I have maintained virgin props.

There are many other tricky areas besides the Witches and Graveyard. I've seen a boat with it's outdrive ripped out, sinking onto the shoal near Pistol Island (very tricky nav there).

Dave R · 06-05-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

There are many other tricky areas besides the Witches and Graveyard. I've seen a boat with it's outdrive ripped out, sinking onto the shoal near Pistol Island (very tricky nav there).

That's the only place I wrecked a prop on the lake. I was at dle speed, and exploring in my second boat. Figured the skeg would protect the prop from a light bump, but it did not... Aluminum props and rocks don't play well together. SS is vastly more resilient. I put a spare on and continued on my way.

I was able to repair the aluminum prop myself too. Just welded some new material to the three damaged blades, shaped them like the one good blade, made a jig to prove it was still balanced, and painted it black. Kept it as a spare when I switched to an SS prop. The new owner still has it.

partsman · 06-22-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

That's the only place I wrecked a prop on the lake. I was at dle speed, and exploring in my second boat. Figured the skeg would protect the prop from a light bump, but it did not... Aluminum props and rocks don't play well together. SS is vastly more resilient. I put a spare on and continued on my way.

I was able to repair the aluminum prop myself too. Just welded some new material to the three damaged blades, shaped them like the one good blade, made a jig to prove it was still balanced, and painted it black. Kept it as a spare when I switched to an SS prop. The new owner still has it.

A point to ponder in this regard.........

If you hit a rock while using an aluminum prop, you wreck the prop. The cost is about $100 for a rebuilt or up to $170 for new.

If you hit a rock while using a stainless steel prop, you generally bend your prop shaft. The cost to repair could be well over $1000.

Dave R · 06-22-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partsman

A point to ponder in this regard.........

If you hit a rock while using an aluminum prop, you wreck the prop. The cost is about $100 for a rebuilt or up to $170 for new.

If you hit a rock while using a stainless steel prop, you generally bend your prop shaft. The cost to repair could be well over $1000.

Perhaps, but SS props are awesome...

Phantom · 06-22-2008, 03:53 PM

Partsman -- NOT True.....although that was the fact with older models, the newer SS prop's/outdrives have a Phenolic (hard plastic) slip ring which guards the drive shaft from damage. Trust me, I know ...... I tested it (not on purpose) last fall in Low water with a Bravo-3 (dual SS prop) outdrive. Now the cost factor of the prop itself is still a vast difference. But as Dave r points out....the performance difference is very noticible.

Dave R · 06-22-2008, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

Partsman -- NOT True.....although that was the fact with older models, the newer SS prop's/outdrives have a Phenolic (hard plastic) slip ring which guards the drive shaft from damage. Trust me, I know ...... I tested it (not on purpose) last fall in Low water with a Bravo-3 (dual SS prop) outdrive. Now the cost factor of the prop itself is still a vast difference. But as Dave r points out....the performance difference is very noticible.

I know someone with a Volvo Penta duoprop and SS props that ran aground in Moultonborough Bay and did need new propshafts. Far as I know, the VP DP does not have slip rings and nor do Bravo 3 props. I am certain my B3 props do not have them. Regardless, unlike a VP DP drive that allows a choice of aluminum or SS, I have no choice but to run SS props on my B3, they are all that's available.

jetskier · 06-22-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

I know someone with a Volvo Penta duoprop and SS props that ran aground in Moultonborough Bay and did need new propshafts. Far as I know, the VP DP does not have slip rings and nor do Bravo 3 props. I am certain my B3 props do not have them. Regardless, unlike a VP DP drive that allows a choice of aluminum or SS, I have no choice but to run SS props on my B3, they are all that's available.

I found a rock with my Volvo DP drive a couple of years back and it was not pretty. The rock took out the prop AND the prop shaft. net net $1,700 and a large mental note to avoid that spot.

Jetskier

Seeker · 06-23-2008, 10:10 AM

I'm going to try one of the composite, variable pitch replaceable blade props on my 135 Optimax for awhile this year as I get used to the lake. They are 4 blade and should you break a blade just take that one and the opposite one off and come in on a two blade prop with no vibration. About $200 with replacement blades $30. I haven't nicked a blade yet in 55 years but then I haven't boated much on Winnie.

ossipeeboater · 06-24-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker

I'm going to try one of the composite, variable pitch replaceable blade props on my 135 Optimax for awhile this year as I get used to the lake. They are 4 blade and should you break a blade just take that one and the opposite one off and come in on a two blade prop with no vibration. About $200 with replacement blades $30. I haven't nicked a blade yet in 55 years but then I haven't boated much on Winnie.

I actually have a composite on my Duo prop because of the changeable blades, after having to refinish the stainless a couple times I decided to go that way, they get nicked up real easy from the sand and small pebbles that don't do anything to a stainless but I lost no speed with it.

Dave M · 06-25-2008, 07:48 AM

I'm not total up on the mechanical side of things. Dave R says SS props give you better performance. Are you using the same pitch as you would aluminum to get this performance. If so, what does the SS give you, more speed,etc. I have a VP Chris Craft. Is this slip ring visable.

Dave M

jrc · 06-25-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave M

I'm not total up on the mechanical side of things. Dave R says SS props give you better performance. Are you using the same pitch as you would aluminum to get this performance. If so, what does the SS give you, more speed,etc. I have a VP Chris Craft. Is this slip ring visable.

Dave M

The theory is that SS is stronger than aluminum, so the blades are thinner causing less drag and the blades flex less and keep the same pitch even while spinning fast. Aluminum blades flex and flatten out, reducing the pitch as speed increases, just what you don't want.

Orion · 06-25-2008, 12:24 PM

Rule of thumb is you can go 1" higher pitch # with SS and have the same WOT RPM as aluminum. ......so you'll probably save gas, too!

Rattlesnake Guy · 06-25-2008, 09:59 PM

Kamper,
I actually have a family of tiny ants living in my laptop and was really nervous to see that one had made it to the inside of the screen. I am hoping they run out of food soon and move out. You got me good.

Kamper · 06-25-2008, 11:36 PM

RE: My Avatar (The dizzy flea).

This is just a passing fancy. I'll change it soon so nobody blows a can of Raid at their screen.

Enjoy it while you can. Feel free to snag it and share the joy. lol.

K

Kamper · 06-25-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeker

I'm going to try one of the composite, (blades) ... should you break a blade just take that one and the opposite one off and come in on a two blade prop ...

That's a good theory but your prop is spinning so fast that if one blade is broken the odds are the other blades will strike the obstacle too, with similiar results. My suggestion would be to carry enough spare blades to replace them all since it probably wont take much more effort than just pulling two and maybe moving one, assuming you are that fortunate.

Alternatly, carry a fully rigged spare prop (or your old one) and keep the extra blades ashore. This will reduce your field repair time and minimise your exposure to the elements or traffic.

Good luck!

hazelnut · 06-25-2008, 08:26 AM

KAMPER!!!!! Your new avatar caused me to panic for a minute as I thought that a bug had made the inside of my Laptop screen his new home!!!!!!!

It actually happened to me with my old laptop, a bug was crawling around INSIDE the screen. Genius that I am I pushed on the screen smushed the bug and ended up with a permanent smudge.

KBoater · 06-25-2008, 09:47 AM

I'm like hazelnut I squished the screen.

I have had outside screen problems so thought it was just another vistor. Highjack time.

Seeker · 06-25-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

Alternatly, carry a fully rigged spare prop (or your old one) and keep the extra blades ashore. This will reduce your field repair time and minimise your exposure to the elements or traffic.

Good luck!

I intend to carry my SS prop as a spare. Only question now is between a Piranha (changeable blades) or Propulse (changeable blades and pitch). Piranha seems available locally at Anchor. My SS is 14x19 w/ a cup so if the Piranha doesn't have a cup I'll go w/ 14x21.

ossipeeboater · 06-24-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave R

That's the only place I wrecked a prop on the lake. I was at dle speed, and exploring in my second boat. Figured the skeg would protect the prop from a light bump, but it did not... Aluminum props and rocks don't play well together. SS is vastly more resilient. I put a spare on and continued on my way.

I was able to repair the aluminum prop myself too. Just welded some new material to the three damaged blades, shaped them like the one good blade, made a jig to prove it was still balanced, and painted it black. Kept it as a spare when I switched to an SS prop. The new owner still has it.

My wife hit a rock in that area going where I told her at no wake speed while I set up a rod for my son. The boat had maybe 4 hours on it and I needed to refinish both props(duoprop) and they were never the same so I ended up replacing and keeping that as a spare. A $1300 mistake that still keeps her from driving the boat even though I wasn't mad when she did it.

SIKSUKR · 06-05-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

I remeber that picture of the lower unit sitting in the witches from when it was posted on this forum. I think it was 2 years ago. Does anyone have that picture at their disposal?

I think the photo you are refering to is of a lower unit off Pistol Island.Search photopost under Bizer.

kchace · 06-05-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I think the photo you are refering to is of lower unit of Pistol Island.Search photopost under Bizer.

That's what I remember too. Its on the Bizer website, too.

Ken

kjbathe · 06-05-2008, 11:38 AM

The photo can be seen here http://bizer.com/jrfaq.htm

After sending this, I started to look for information about Pistol Island via a Google search. I stumbled upon a link for Duncan Press and found an update site for it's 2005 chart of Winnipesaukee. And then I read...

"Additions Since 2004 there have been 3 buoys added: #101 black, #102 red, #103 black. Waypoints aren't allowed. Sallys Gut G-5 7/13/07 Duncan Press"

In short, three buoys were added in 2004, that didn't make Duncan's chart in 2005, and they didn't report the update until 2007. Oh, and they also noted that the black and red markers on their chart around Pistol Island were reversed.

Understandable why Stewart hit Bizer rock and why it continues to be hit today.

This just reminded me why I continue to have the Bizer chart -- and only the Bizer -- on our boat.

06-04-2008, 03:31 PM	#2
Mr. Moyer Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	picture of lower unit eaten by witches I remeber that picture of the lower unit sitting in the witches from when it was posted on this forum. I think it was 2 years ago. Does anyone have that picture at their disposal? I would love to see that again, and any other disaster pictures from the granite monsters of winnie. I would like to send it to my friend is using my boat for a week this summer on the lake, as a friendly reminder of what can happen when you don't pay attention to the charts. Hopefully, we won't have any newer pictures after this season, but unfortuantely, I think it is inevitable.

06-05-2008, 09:20 AM	#4
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	great advice All excellent points. Also, don't think because your depth sounder says 25' of water, that your safe. There are some 24' rocks in there! I've been boating on this lake for 45 years. Whenever I'm somewhere that I don't regularly travel, the chart is out. At night the GPS is also on, and we're travelling within the "new" speed limits. With one bonehead exception when I was on the lake when I was 17 in a very high-water Springtime, with no chart, I have maintained virgin props. There are many other tricky areas besides the Witches and Graveyard. I've seen a boat with it's outdrive ripped out, sinking onto the shoal near Pistol Island (very tricky nav there).

06-22-2008, 03:53 PM	#8
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Partsman -- NOT True.....although that was the fact with older models, the newer SS prop's/outdrives have a Phenolic (hard plastic) slip ring which guards the drive shaft from damage. Trust me, I know ...... I tested it (not on purpose) last fall in Low water with a Bravo-3 (dual SS prop) outdrive. Now the cost factor of the prop itself is still a vast difference. But as Dave r points out....the performance difference is very noticible. __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

06-25-2008, 07:48 AM	#13
Dave M Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 395 Thanks: 4 Thanked 26 Times in 24 Posts	SS Prop ? I'm not total up on the mechanical side of things. Dave R says SS props give you better performance. Are you using the same pitch as you would aluminum to get this performance. If so, what does the SS give you, more speed,etc. I have a VP Chris Craft. Is this slip ring visable. Dave M

06-25-2008, 12:24 PM	#15
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Cow Island Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	SS pitch vs. aluminum Rule of thumb is you can go 1" higher pitch # with SS and have the same WOT RPM as aluminum. ......so you'll probably save gas, too!

06-04-2008, 02:49 PM	#1
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,311 Thanks: 1,230 Thanked 2,099 Times in 958 Posts	memory drift I often find markers that are quite some distance away from where I remembered them to be. Then a close examination of the chart and maybe a GPS check reveals that it was actually a case of “memory drift”. Be careful.

06-05-2008, 12:35 AM	#3
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	I am not embarrassed to admit that a few times when the chart just did not match what I was seeing I stopped and did not move until I figured out what went wrong. In all of these cases, in fact, I was not where my finger on the chart said I was. I would much rather bump a rock while stopped then find it quickly during my search for where the heck I am.

06-23-2008, 10:10 AM	#11
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Effingham Posts: 408 Thanks: 37 Thanked 19 Times in 15 Posts	I'm going to try one of the composite, variable pitch replaceable blade props on my 135 Optimax for awhile this year as I get used to the lake. They are 4 blade and should you break a blade just take that one and the opposite one off and come in on a two blade prop with no vibration. About $200 with replacement blades $30. I haven't nicked a blade yet in 55 years but then I haven't boated much on Winnie.

06-25-2008, 09:59 PM	#16
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	Kamper, I actually have a family of tiny ants living in my laptop and was really nervous to see that one had made it to the inside of the screen. I am hoping they run out of food soon and move out. You got me good.

06-25-2008, 11:36 PM	#17
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,307 Thanks: 67 Thanked 172 Times in 128 Posts	RE: My Avatar (The dizzy flea). This is just a passing fancy. I'll change it soon so nobody blows a can of Raid at their screen. Enjoy it while you can. Feel free to snag it and share the joy. lol. K

06-25-2008, 08:26 AM	#19
hazelnut Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,348 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 508 Thanked 462 Times in 162 Posts	KAMPER!!!!! Your new avatar caused me to panic for a minute as I thought that a bug had made the inside of my Laptop screen his new home!!!!!!! It actually happened to me with my old laptop, a bug was crawling around INSIDE the screen. Genius that I am I pushed on the screen smushed the bug and ended up with a permanent smudge.

06-25-2008, 09:47 AM	#20
KBoater Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Wolfeboro Posts: 521 Thanks: 10 Thanked 29 Times in 15 Posts	I'm like hazelnut I squished the screen. I have had outside screen problems so thought it was just another vistor. Highjack time. __________________ Home Permanently in NH

06-05-2008, 11:38 AM	#25
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 283 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	The photo can be seen here http://bizer.com/jrfaq.htm After sending this, I started to look for information about Pistol Island via a Google search. I stumbled upon a link for Duncan Press and found an update site for it's 2005 chart of Winnipesaukee. And then I read... "Additions Since 2004 there have been 3 buoys added: #101 black, #102 red, #103 black. Waypoints aren't allowed. Sallys Gut G-5 7/13/07 Duncan Press" In short, three buoys were added in 2004, that didn't make Duncan's chart in 2005, and they didn't report the update until 2007. Oh, and they also noted that the black and red markers on their chart around Pistol Island were reversed. Understandable why Stewart hit Bizer rock and why it continues to be hit today. This just reminded me why I continue to have the Bizer chart -- and only the Bizer -- on our boat.