Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[webmaster]

WMUR just posted an update at 8:55 am.

[bigpatsfan]

Posted in the Union Leader

Lake Winnipesaukee boat crash kills 1

[Old Hubbard Rd]

The operator of this boat I believe is the daughter of Paul Blizzard who owns Lakeport Landing. If so I believe she was a pretty experienced driver. It's sad!!

[Islander]

She is also president of a local boating organization.

http://nhrba.com/board.htm

[hazelnut]

My heart goes out to the families affected by this tragedy.

[TiltonBB]

Boat at Glendale being loaded

[Seaplane Pilot]

WMUR has a news video posted:

http://www.wmur.com/video/16614448/index.html

Very, very sad.

[Ropetow]

Check out the post of Less on the Union Leader website.

"Is this the same Erica Blizzard that is the President of the NHRBA (NH Recreational Boaters Assoc.)? This is the lobbying group of high speed/high horsepower ocean type racing boats owners that vehemently opposed day & night time speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee! If so, the media needs to follow up on this aspect of the story, as it sheds a whole new light on the speed limit debate!
- F L Less, Meredith, NH"


Talk about crass....Give the dead and injured their time and respect instead of briging up the speed limit debate! Remember....there but for the grade of God go I....

[ITD]

What a tragedy...... my heartfelt condolences to the families involved.


Ropetow,

The ghouls have already started and should be ashamed of themselves. Just ignore them.....

[Tank151]

Originally Posted by Ropetow

Check out the post of Less on the Union Leader website.

"Is this the same Erica Blizzard that is the President of the NHRBA (NH Recreational Boaters Assoc.)? This is the lobbying group of high speed/high horsepower ocean type racing boats owners that vehemently opposed day & night time speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee! If so, the media needs to follow up on this aspect of the story, as it sheds a whole new light on the speed limit debate!
- F L Less, Meredith, NH"

This is Fat Lazy Less who frequently posts on this forum.... This guy has NO CLASS!!! Without knowing ALL the facts, he has already made some assumptions.

I know Paul Blizzard and his family... and they always promote boating safety!

This was an unfortunate tradegy, one that took a young lady's life and severly hurt the driver and another passenger.

Our hearts are with all three families as they suffer through this tradegy.

Tank

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Ropetow

Check out the post of Less on the Union Leader website.

"Is this the same Erica Blizzard that is the President of the NHRBA (NH Recreational Boaters Assoc.)? This is the lobbying group of high speed/high horsepower ocean type racing boats owners that vehemently opposed day & night time speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee! If so, the media needs to follow up on this aspect of the story, as it sheds a whole new light on the speed limit debate!
- F L Less, Meredith, NH"


Talk about crass....Give the dead and injured their time and respect instead of briging up the speed limit debate! Remember....there but for the grade of God go I....

........

Hello Everyone - just saw this thread, and no it was not me who wrote and posted it in the Union Leader. Someone, acting in bad faith, chose to write up a very rude and nasty letter and post it in the UL, under the name of F L Less.

It's not me....didn't write it and most certainly do not appreciate this deceit.

To whoever crafted this act of deception and miss-statement, you must be very proud of yourself for spreading bad feelings at the hurtfull expense of others.

No doubt, this can be chaulked up as collateral damage from the long running topic in the 'other' boating thread.
..........


Sympathies extended, at what must be a difficult time, to all close to the recent boat accident.

fll

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

........

Hello Everyone - just saw this thread, and no it was not me who wrote and posted it in the Union Leader. Someone, acting in bad faith, chose to write up a very rude and nasty letter and post it in the UL, under the name of F L Less.

It's not me....didn't write it and most certainly do not appreciate this deceit.

To whoever crafted this act of deception and miss-statement, you must be very proud of yourself for spreading bad feelings at the hurtfull expense of others.

No doubt, this can be chaulked up as collateral damage from the long running topic in the 'other' boating thread.
..........


Sympathies extended, at what must be a difficult time, to all close to the recent boat accident.

fll

This may or may not be the case but it is exactly the type of post we have seen from FLL on a non-stop basis.Sorry,not buying this post at all.If the shoe fits.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

This may or may not be the case but it is exactly the type of post we have seen from FLL on a non-stop basis.Sorry,not buying this post at all.If the shoe fits.

Based on his post and how the name was written in the paper- I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

[Orion]

....but wouldn't a $350,000 boat be equipped with at least a $350 GPS?

[NHDOLFAN]

I have been reading all the posts and the back and forth banter going on. Unfortunately, society allows us to form opinions without the need for facts. I was on the lake Saturday night around midnight. I must say that I would not have attempted to go anywhere that evening without GPS. Even with GPS, I was very cautious and traveling at a slow speed. It saddens me to think that someone with her experience would not have this technology at her disposal. Regardless of the side that you have choose to take, there is an innocent person no longer with us. Everyone is focused on the boat and what it looks like. What about the idea of the anchor being propelled into the side of the cottage on impact?

Best wishes to those involved as the pain will always be there.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Orion

....but wouldn't a $350,000 boat be equipped with at least a $350 GPS?

Looks like it has a nice one, looks like a Raymarine C80 display and it is highly unlikely it came without a GPS antenna:



It may not have had the Winnipesaukee chart in it though. Can't say.

[kthy66]

Im sure it had the proper electronics but like anything else accidents happen. It doesnt matter how well you know the lake; things are different at night. “familiarity breeds contempt”
GPS is not foolproof..

I wish the victims and their families a speedy healing

[fatlazyless]

I obviously have no idea who wrote the letter from F L Less. One can imagine what their intent was.

What I do know, is that I absolutely - positively - absolutely did not write it!

As I said in my post from last night, someone acting in very bad faith crafted this nasty letter to the Union Leader and signed it F L Less.

It was not me!

With such a grave and serious accident that involves big injuries and death, it would be extremely rude and nasty. People have feelings! It is just totally out of good taste to be so disrespectfull.

On the human scale of importance, a grave boating accident emotionally outweighs a speed limit law by a million times......no comparision....

Again, please accept my condolences to all close to this boating accident!

I'm a boater too. Wave to me, and I'll wave back to you.

You know, I do not expect any apologies from anyone who wrote any of the nasty ghoulish replies about me. There was a terrible accident. People get very upset, and they see that nasty letter, and they assume it is real so they react in turn.

Let's just forget about that and move on.

Here's hoping the accident survivors will make a speedy & full recovery.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

I obviously have no idea who wrote the letter from F L Less. One can imagine what their intent was.

What I do know, is that I absolutely - positively - absolutely did not write it!

As I said in my post from last night, someone acting in very bad faith crafted this nasty letter to the Union Leader and signed it F L Less.

It was not me!

With such a grave and serious accident that involves big injuries and death, it would be extremely rude and nasty. People have feelings! It is just totally out of good taste to be so disrespectfull.

On the human scale of importance, a grave boating accident emotionally outweighs a speed limit law by a million times......no comparision....

Again, please accept my condolences to all close to this boating accident!

I'm a boater too. Wave to me, and I'll wave back to you.

You know, I do not expect any apologies from anyone who wrote any of the nasty ghoulish replies about me. There was a terrible accident. People get very upset, and they see that nasty letter, and they assume it is real so they react in turn.

Let's just forget about that and move on.

Here's hoping the accident survivors will make a speedy & full recovery.

Sorry FLL,I'm a little touchy right now.You have certainly made posts in the past along the same lines that lacked good taste.I accept your last post and hope you are sincere.

[SIKSUKR]

I thought I would put a link to Stephanie's Obit from the Laconia Citizen Online.She really was a wonderful girl with the most infectious smile.God Bless.
http://www.legacy.com/Citizen/DeathN...onId=111728081

[NHDOLFAN]

I understand that a GPS is not fool proof. However, an ounce of caution can go a long way. Each year, I am baffled by the stupidity of people on the lake (tubing with young kids in the middle of the broads on a busy summer weekend is just 1 example). I'm not sure if I agree with the statement " accidents happen" as many of them can be prevented with patience.

[kthy66]

It is what it is... ACCIDENTS do Happen regardless of whether there is someone acting foolishly or following all the rules..
You apparently believe that all accidents are due to people doing stupid things.. must be nice in your world.

[NHDOLFAN]

Give me an example where an accident happens when someone is using common sense with patience. My world is a great place because I choose for it to be. Try reading the book Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

[kthy66]

ok... your driving down the lake... a submerged floating object takes out your prop... who is being negligent causing this accident?

Your driving down the street... A rock gets kicked up from a car in front of you.. your windshield cracks.... who is being negligent causing this accident?

Try reading the book.. boating for dummies... I think it will do you some good

[kthy66]

BTW I will not respond to anymore of your inane posts... its disrespectful to the people involved in the ACCIDENT.. Go somewhere else and spew your hate and ridicule.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by NHDOLFAN

Give me an example where an accident happens when someone is using common sense with patience. My world is a great place because I choose for it to be. Try reading the book Don't Sweat the Small Stuff.

Gee,there's a tough one.I walking on a path and a big branch of a tree suddenly breaks off and falls on me.Maybe I was lacking comman sense by walking near those trees and was not patient enough to wait for that tree to fall before walking by it.Hopefully,if you use all your comman sense,a tree does not drop on you.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

I obviously have no idea who wrote the letter from F L Less. One can imagine what their intent was.

What I do know, is that I absolutely - positively - absolutely did not write it!

As I said in my post from last night, someone acting in very bad faith crafted this nasty letter to the Union Leader and signed it F L Less.

It was not me!

With such a grave and serious accident that involves big injuries and death, it would be extremely rude and nasty. People have feelings! It is just totally out of good taste to be so disrespectfull.

On the human scale of importance, a grave boating accident emotionally outweighs a speed limit law by a million times......no comparision....

Again, please accept my condolences to all close to this boating accident!

I'm a boater too. Wave to me, and I'll wave back to you.

You know, I do not expect any apologies from anyone who wrote any of the nasty ghoulish replies about me. There was a terrible accident. People get very upset, and they see that nasty letter, and they assume it is real so they react in turn.

Let's just forget about that and move on.

Here's hoping the accident survivors will make a speedy & full recovery.

I believe Less' statement here and want to apologize for calling him ghoulish. Less, that statement is still in that article, I would be outraged if someone did this to me. I suggest that you call the Union leader and ask them to remove it if you haven't already. I'm sure that the UL ip logs the responses it receives, maybe it would be possible to associate that IP with an IP used in this forum, who knows.

I still stand behind my ghoul statement for the person who wrote that response, no matter which side of the SL debate they are on and the others, who were waiting for this tragedy to say "see, I told you so".

I would also like to point out that hitting an immoveable object like a wall at 25 mph with a boat will cause massive damage and probably death. I would be very surprised if this boat was going over 25 mph. If you don't believe me, drive your car into a concrete abutment at 25 and see what happens.

[parrothead]

Also don't wear a seat belt while driving into the abutment.

[kthy66]

ITD... you are so right... I was thinking last night about what happens to a car in a low speed crash... I saw a picture of a corvette this morning that hit a wall at 30 MPH.. As you know corvettes are also all fiberglass... The car was crushed almost beyond recognition.
Got me thinking that this boat was not going that fast at all... probably less than 20 miles per hour... Had it been going at any significant speed there wouldnt have been anything left and there would have been much more significant damage to the underneath of the hull and not just the bow.

[NHDOLFAN]

kthy66

those are examples of life and things that happen, not accidents. the only disrespect is you not understanding that everyone is entitled to an opinion. everything happens for a reason, so there is no accident! the reason sometimes is not as OBVIOUS as others.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by NHDOLFAN

kthy66

those are examples of life and things that happen, not accidents. the only disrespect is you not understanding that everyone is entitled to an opinion. everything happens for a reason, so there is no accident! the reason sometimes is not as OBVIOUS as others.

What is the definition of the event in this article, if it wasn't an accident? God help the poor girl who was the victim of this falling rock - she did not cause this event. Of course there are accidents!

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...had_to_happen/

[kthy66]

Originally Posted by NHDOLFAN

kthy66

those are examples of life and things that happen, not accidents. the only disrespect is you not understanding that everyone is entitled to an opinion. everything happens for a reason, so there is no accident! the reason sometimes is not as OBVIOUS as others.

like i said,,, it must be nice in your world

[NHDOLFAN]

half empty or half full, it's a simple choice with profound outcomes. the decision is yours and only yours!

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by PennyPenny

Speed was an issue. His aunt is the deceased. The boat hit some rocks and went airborne?? and landed on or near shore. I only know that the families are grieving. The nephew is my future son in law and works at the Whining Butcher in Gilford.( not that that matters) I am not a boater but I have seen what speed can do whether it be a rock or tree or whatever. People kill people. It just brings me to tears. RIP

SIKSUKR, my condolences on the loss of your friend and my apologies for bringing this up; I thought I had already said all that I needed to say or that I was going to say in this thread but the quote above really angered me.

How can someone get "first hand" information from a deceased victim? I don't understand that. By now, we've all looked at the picture of the damaged boat in post #8; if that boat was "airborne??", why was the entire hull bottom not destroyed instead of just the first 8-12 feet of it as we see in the picture? Looking at that pic, I don't believe that for an instant! Imagine the force it would take to cause a 15,000 lb boat to become airborne!! People that admit to not being boaters should not be speculating; allow the professionals to investigate the accident and file their reports, based on their experience, expertise and knowledge.

DaveR, regarding your comment about speed being an issue since "obvious(ly) the boat was closer to Diamond Island than 150'," allow me to suggest to you that given the darkness, rain, fog and maybe an inaccurate GPS reading, Ms. Blizzard may have thought she was much further away from land than she actually was. We know GPS is not 100% accurate (it can vary as much as 50 ft) and there was also a report of another boater getting inaccurate readings in the same vicinity as this accident. There have been many comments about her abilities at the helm of a boat and I believe those comments; does anyone actually think a boater with that much experience would intentionally make a mistake like this?? I don't believe that. My thoughts are, she probably thought she knew exactly where she was, the only problem was, she was drastically mistaken. Yes, I know, I'm speculating myself. Enough said.

FatLazyLess, as much as I disagree with most of your comments on the speed limits threads, I believe you were being honest and sincere when you said you did not make the comment on the Union Leader article. I just felt it was important for you to know that I believed you and, setting the speed limit issue aside, we can all agree this was a very tragic accident.

Finally, my thoughts and condolences go out to all the families of the victims and to the friends of the victims that have lost someone so near and dear to them.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

DaveR, regarding your comment about speed being an issue since "obvious(ly) the boat was closer to Diamond Island than 150'," allow me to suggest to you that given the darkness, rain, fog and maybe an inaccurate GPS reading, Ms. Blizzard may have thought she was much further away from land than she actually was. We know GPS is not 100% accurate (it can vary as much as 50 ft) and there was also a report of another boater getting inaccurate readings in the same vicinity as this accident. There have been many comments about her abilities at the helm of a boat and I believe those comments; does anyone actually think a boater with that much experience would intentionally make a mistake like this?? I don't believe that. My thoughts are, she probably thought she knew exactly where she was, the only problem was, she was drastically mistaken. Yes, I know, I'm speculating myself. Enough said.

The boat could not hit Diamond Island unless it was closer than 150 feet so we know it was within 150 feet. If it was exceeding 6 MPH, it was going faster than the law allows. That's it. I wrote that in response to claims that speed was not a factor. I never implied that the operator was aware of her position, nor did I imply anything else.

[4Fun]

Originally Posted by Dave R

The boat could not hit Diamond Island unless it was closer than 150 feet so we know it was within 150 feet. If it was exceeding 6 MPH, it was going faster than the law allows. That's it. I wrote that in response to claims that speed was not a factor. I never implied that the operator was aware of her position, nor did I imply anything else.

Your point makes sense to me Dave. To the posters comparing a falling tree or a random rock kicked up on the highway those things are largely out of your control. This accident, while I am sure there were many contributing factors, was within the control of the boat operator.

Simply put she thought she was heading in a different direction or in a different spot. This is operator error plain and simple. I don't think this is jumping to a conclusion. What the contributing factors were that caused the confusion can be debated, but whether or not she is at fault how can you debate that???

I am very sorry to hear about the loss of a life and certainly don't think Erica should be condemed for life or smeared through the media. Discussing it to make a safer lake should be viewed as a positive not a negitive.

[NHDOLFAN]

4Fun

Very well said. My comments are not to cast judgement or identify fault. I simple stated that this tragic situation may have been prevented. Unfortunately for Erica, she will always live with this pain, regardless of the circumstances.

My hat goes off to Dr. Rock and his wife for their help in this situation, which may have saved some lives.

[sa meredith]

As I very recently stated, the only thing that matters is the fact the lives of the two survivors have changed forever, and another girl has lost her's. You have to feel for them. However, it seems people just want to talk about speed, and the definition of the word "accident".
My take is this....at some point, responsibility is going to be accessed by the proper authorities. A woman has died, after all. And the finding will not be "oh, just an accident". I'm sorry. That just won't be the case. As a precident, I would look to the incident (not accident) involving the son (as opposed to the daughter) of the owner of a Marina (Irwin or Channell, I forget) who ran over two people in Meredith Bay at night, killing one. He was held responsible for it. Yes, he was drunk. But if he was not drunk, I believe he still would have been held responsible for the "incident".
This is a terrible, terrible thing that has happened. But unless there is severe mechanical failure, someone will be held accountable. Simple truth.

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

........ Hello Everyone - just saw this thread, and no it was not me who wrote and posted it in the Union Leader. .... fll

FLL, looks like a lot of people condemning others for jumping to conclusions .... were jumping to conclusions.

[SAMIAM]

ITD and RI SWAMP YANKEE.....are you really buying FLL's denial ?? That post is right in line with his previous postings. So, some stranger just happened to dream up the name FL Less and make a post that is very typical of his views.
Sorry....I don't buy it FLL......GUILTY AS CHARGED

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

ITD and RI SWAMP YANKEE.....are you really buying FLL's denial ?? That post is right in line with his previous postings. So, some stranger just happened to dream up the name FL Less and make a post that is very typical of his views.
Sorry....I don't buy it FLL......GUILTY AS CHARGED

Honestly, who cares? I've yet to see "Less" string together a coherent thought, and on the random occasions something intelligible escapes his keyboard it is juvenile and non-value-add.

It is either his own post, or a spot-on impression of him. Either way my personal opinion of him is cast and he is not worth the effort to debate with, or consider.

I urge you to simply ignore him, and/or his "imposters".

[ITD]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

ITD and RI SWAMP YANKEE.....are you really buying FLL's denial ?? That post is right in line with his previous postings. So, some stranger just happened to dream up the name FL Less and make a post that is very typical of his views.
Sorry....I don't buy it FLL......GUILTY AS CHARGED

Yeah, I buy it and I believe him. The guy is out in left field sometimes and he does like to stir up the pot, but for the most part I think he is a good guy. I think if he had actually done it, he would be man enough to own up to it. It would be pretty easy to post under someone else's name in another venue, in fact I think if I look back I could find some admissions of people posting clandestinely in an off shore forum, collecting information.

I think the person who did it is lower than low and should be hiding like the little wuss they are............

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

... Sorry....I don't buy it FLL......GUILTY AS CHARGED

I am still not ready to jump to conclusions and you are free to believe what you want.

[gravy boat]

Speculation is irrelevant, in my view. But, human nature, it seems, tends to focus on the negative or more sensational possibilities.

Who knows what happened. We received a call today from a friend in Litchfield who knows the sister of the victim. Information was provided to us. The game of telephone is not limited by age. Until the authorities release a final report, I view it as speculation.

Thoughts and prayers to family and friends of the victim. Let's wait and see what is determined by science.

GB

[CanisLupusArctos]

It always saddens me to offer weather info in these situations. It has helped in the past, so I do.

The following is taken from automated observations; I was asleep for the night.

Black Cat Island weather at 2 a.m. was most likely a light fog, based on the fact that the temperature and dewpoint were only 2 degrees apart. They were 57 and 55, respectively. Wind was absolute calm: Average zero, gust zero. The temperature was in the process of cooling. The air was laden with moisture (rel. humidity above 90%) and was not experiencing any drying.

Water temperature was 65 at the surface, 66 at 10 feet. Water temperature warmer than the air temperature can produce lake fog, or thicken an existing fog over the lake.

Per info in a weather-section thread on water temp, several warm pools of water (around 70 F) developed in the lake during the most recent heat wave. In the two days of northwest winds following the heat wave, the warm pools relocated to the southeast end of the lake. The water temperature has been greatly variable from place to place. This would have made patchy dense fog (visibility under 1/4 mile) a possibility. Patchy dense fog is often deadlier than widespread dense fog because of its ability to create sudden, dramatic loss of visibility for anyone riding into it. For anyone traveling outside the fog patch on open water at night, a localized fog patch can hide an object in such a way that it looks like open water. The local fog patch would not be obvious in the dark, and therefore the traveler would have no reason to question what is really there.

Conditions at Laconia were similar, also conducive to light fog (temp/dewpoint about 2 degrees apart, and calm wind).

It would be good to have data from the Varney Point and Weirs Beach weather stations also.

I offer all of the above only as a possible answer to anyone who asks how this event could happen to an experienced boater. While the accident investigators will determine the official cause and will probably consider weather, this is something we can think about in the meantime: It is entirely possible that it was a factor. Whether or not patchy dense fog was part of the cause this time, it is a phenomenon on this lake that can catch the most experienced boaters amongst us completely off-guard. Conditions at the time could have supported it.

My condolences to all those involved.

[BroadHopper]

He doesn't have the facts if speed was a factor. It was foggy on The Broads Saturday night, Sunday morning. I have seen many accidents due to fog. And they were not high performance boats.

Condolence to the Beadoin family and wish the others for a speedy recovery. The Blizzard family are well known and respected member of the boating community.

[Winnipesaukee]

In my expert ( ) opinion, it looks like whatever the boat struck was above the water, but below the level of the gunwale. I'd "speculate" a large, wide rock. Based on the bottom of the hull it doesn't seem that it hit much else--if anything--before it struck whatever damaged the bow, which seems a bit strange. What tends to happen is the boat goes over the obstruction, rather than into it. Notice the hull delaminated from the deck the entire way back.

The bow must have absorbed all of the energy from the moving boat--stopped--in those few feet.

edit: if you watch the video, it will show that the boat hit a rock wall on the shore, and the anchor chain had enough inertia to continue on shore and damage a house a few feet away.

All speculation, of course. Condolences to those involved.

[SOB]

Click the link on the 3rd post of this thread, they have a video which shows the rock the boat struck and also the account of what the person living on the island heard and saw immediately after...

Let's all wait for the facts, I hate when 30 replies from now assumptions become fact. But do check the video out, location on the island, and other comments do shed some light.

Regardless, my sympathies to all the families involved.

[Alton Bay]

I, too, am disgusted to read just a vile comment from FLL. I have read his cruel, sarcastic and nasty comments about anyone who thinks differently from he does many times over the past months.
My sympathies to the familes who are hurting tonight. I'm sure there will be details to be learned as the days go on, but FLL... be a gentleman and leave the Blizzards alone.

[AMekler]

This was a terrible accident and if wasn't for the quick response of Tom Rock on Diamond Island there could have been more fatalities.
A. Mekler

[2Blackdogs]

Sadly, this time of year there wouldn't be many residential lights to make Diamond Island more visible. NECN is adding that the boat was headed in a southeasterly direction and that the collision happened at 2:30am.

I was awakened at 12:15am by a weird-sounding noisy boat. Surprisingly, there were several other boats out after midnight Sunday. The weird-sounding boat showed up late this afternoon, and was all white. It may be a Sunsation or Sonic.

What could this Formula 37 have struck to cause such remarkable damage, while leaving the rest of the hull undamaged? Most boats drive onto or over, islands.

[jrc]

I hope this thread can stick to the facts and details of the accident. If anyone wants to discuss political opinions, I hope they take it to the other section.

[jrc]

The damage in the photos is amazing. I remember the photos from the smaller boat that hit Eagle Island. It seemed to go up on the rocks and eventually slide along the ground on the island. This boat seems to have absorbed all the energy by crushing hull. On the news, it looked almost like a rock wall just at the water line. I think were showing the point of impact. The picture is not really close enough but the hull is also surprisingly thin.

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by jrc

The damage in the photos is amazing. I remember the photos from the smaller boat that hit Eagle Island. It seemed to go up on the rocks and eventually slide along the ground on the island. This boat seems to have absorbed all the energy by crushing hull. On the news, it looked almost like a rock wall just at the water line. I think were showing the point of impact. The picture is not really close enough but the hull is also surprisingly thin.

These boats have a good reputation, but that hull IS thin. Other large boats have been known to climb over Lake Superior's rock jettys at high speeds saving their drivers. Some fiberglass cloth hanging low from deckline level on this Formula don't appear to have been thoroughly infused with resin. Possibly an error in construction? Fiberglass cloth is now made in China.

I correct myself on the amount of light available.

Just checking today's weather, I see that there is a full moon. I saw other boats miles away after midnight so the visibility was very good, at least after midnight. This boat's direction was from the most open part of the lake, so distractions or just not paying attention seems likely. Comments of a temporary government suspension of GPS seem hardly likely at all.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

I correct myself on the amount of light available.

Just checking today's weather, I see that there is a full moon. I saw other boats miles away after midnight so the visibility was very good, at least after midnight. This boat's direction was from the most open part of the lake, so distractions or just not paying attention seems likely. Comments of a temporary government suspension of GPS seem hardly likely at all.

Are you sure you have the correct night?It rained pretty hard Saturday night and was foggy.Sunday was overcast and drizzly till I left at noon.

[SIKSUKR]

Latest update from a friend who talked to someone close was that Erica is in critical condition but was expected to survive.I hope that is the case.

[Jeti]

Sad situation....2.30 am.. would Radar have assisted, it looked high end for a boat.

[Winnipesaukee]

The fiberglass is thick enough. Even from the photo it is impossible to tell if the glass was properly laid or not. Regardless, no glass hull is meant to strike a rock wall head on at a high rate of speed. The whole thing weighs at least 7 tons...

The obstruction was too high for the boat to "soar" over. Lower obstructions, such as those under water or partially above (the Witches is a good example) would allow a boat to act as a ramp and fly over. It's like driving a car over a curb vs. into a wall.

[kthy66]

Originally Posted by Jeti

Sad situation....2.30 am.. would Radar have assisted, it looked high end for a boat.

Yes radar would have helped, unfortunately this boat was not equipped with it according to lakeport site..

http://www.lakeportlanding.com/mored...g&icc_ind=BOAT

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

These boats have a good reputation, but that hull IS thin. Other large boats have been known to climb over Lake Superior's rock jettys at high speeds saving their drivers. Some fiberglass cloth hanging low from deckline level on this Formula don't appear to have been thoroughly infused with resin. Possibly an error in construction? Fiberglass cloth is now made in China.

I correct myself on the amount of light available.

Just checking today's weather, I see that there is a full moon. I saw other boats miles away after midnight so the visibility was very good, at least after midnight. This boat's direction was from the most open part of the lake, so distractions or just not paying attention seems likely. Comments of a temporary government suspension of GPS seem hardly likely at all.

HUH?

Formula does not make a thin-hulled boat at all, in fact they historically have a rather heavy build and have a great reputation. Unless you are a nationally accredited marine surveyor and are overqualified to the point of being able to make such judgements from a website picture about the resin, hull composition, etc you are spewing garbage.

The night was cold, dark and raining at that time. At 1am when we got out of the hot tub and went to bed it was not raining yet but it was extremely dark.

For the record, that boat is capable of 53mph+/-, not exactly a GFBL. It has a dry weight of 15,100lbs and the intertia that it would have at even 25mph could be extremely destructive.

[jrc]

Please let me be clear, I was not saying that the hull was undersized or poorly constructed or defective. It just saying that it looked thinner in the picture than I would have guessed. Formula makes some very expensive boats and I'm sure they have well engineered layups. The stress on that hull at impact to immovable granite has to be incredible.

[webmaster]

Boston.com article gives some more information.

[Water Camper]

Is this the same Erica Blizzard that is the President of the NHRBA (NH Recreational Boaters Assoc.)? This is the lobbying group of high speed/high horsepower ocean type racing boats owners that vehemently opposed day & night time speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee! If so, the media needs to follow up on this aspect of the story, as it sheds a whole new light on the speed limit debate!
- F L Less, Meredith, NH"


Anyone who knows Erica Blizzard knows that she is a seasoned boater and highly experienced. And she's smart too. How does her being a part of a lobbying group have anything to do with this unfortunate accident? You, obviously have formed your own opinion. We wish Erica, Paul and their family our heart felt love and support. Every one on this website should do the same.

Sue

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I knew it wouldn't take long for some jerk from the speed limit crowd to show their true colors. This is the most outrageous thing I have ever seen - how low will they go? FLL - you should be ashamed of yourself and should post an apology to the poor families hit by this tragedy. Sickening.

Come on, spare us your self righteous indignation. This is the whole point...the so called speed limit crowd has called attention to these risks all along. People debate speeding/DWI/weapons violations and such after any tragedy because there is a need for serious reform now, not next week, month, or year. This is not a mark of disrespect for the dead/injured but rather concern that these tragdies are not repeated. You are the one who is making this an issue of pro/con speed limits. Investigations over the coming weeks will shed light on the circumstances.

[SAMIAM]

Seaplane is right......totally tasteless and uncalled for.Three families lives changed in a tragedy.......guess we should have expected someone to take to low road.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Come on, spare us your self righteous indignation. This is the whole point...the so called speed limit crowd has called attention to these risks all along. People debate speeding/DWI/weapons violations and such after any tragedy because there is a need for serious reform now, not next week, month, or year. This is not a mark of disrespect for the dead/injured but rather concern that these tragdies are not repeated. You are the one who is making this an issue of pro/con speed limits. Investigations over the coming weeks will shed light on the circumstances.

Turtle Boy, that was one fine piece of creative writing. My god, you really believe this stuff, don't you?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Come on, spare us your self righteous indignation. This is the whole point...the so called speed limit crowd has called attention to these risks all along. People debate speeding/DWI/weapons violations and such after any tragedy because there is a need for serious reform now, not next week, month, or year. This is not a mark of disrespect for the dead/injured but rather concern that these tragdies are not repeated. You are the one who is making this an issue of pro/con speed limits. Investigations over the coming weeks will shed light on the circumstances.

Then why not wait for the investigations to prove yourself less than brilliant? Seriously. Who knows or cares how fast the boat was going? I'm sure you do, but whether they were going 25mph or 45mph, the force of impact would still be significant. "These Tragedies", please spare us all your lack of facts and understanding, not to mention the lack of numerous Tragedies there.

If this sad accident had involved an 18' bowrider going 22 mph, and the head of a pro speed limit group was injured, you'd probably shut your mouth. Biased ignorance knows no bounds apparently, and at least 2-3 of you people have shown your complete lack of respect, not to mention complete lack of compassion or class. Your statement to the contrary does not cover up your own personal, compelling need to justify your position. IMO, it reflects poorly on you.

Boating used to be a fraternity, regardless of boat or type of boat. Any boating accident is to be taken seriously, and I've read many stories of such accidents around the country. As such, I offer my condolences to families and friends of people I've never met, never knew. Because as boaters, they are all part of my extended family.

Reform This Turtle.

[Ropetow]

Just got caught up with the forum, and it looks like I was in error stating that FLL made that post to the Union Leader. My regrets for my apparent error.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

Then why not wait for the investigations to prove yourself less than brilliant? Seriously. Who knows or cares how fast the boat was going? I'm sure you do, but whether they were going 25mph or 45mph, the force of impact would still be significant. "These Tragedies", please spare us all your lack of facts and understanding, not to mention the lack of numerous Tragedies there.

If this sad accident had involved an 18' bowrider going 22 mph, and the head of a pro speed limit group was injured, you'd probably shut your mouth. Biased ignorance knows no bounds apparently, and at least 2-3 of you people have shown your complete lack of respect, not to mention complete lack of compassion or class. Your statement to the contrary does not cover up your own personal, compelling need to justify your position. IMO, it reflects poorly on you.

Boating used to be a fraternity, regardless of boat or type of boat. Any boating accident is to be taken seriously, and I've read many stories of such accidents around the country. As such, I offer my condolences to families and friends of people I've never met, never knew. Because as boaters, they are all part of my extended family.

Reform This Turtle.

And if this sad accident had involved an 18' bowrider going 22 mph, and the head of a pro speed limit group was injured,this forum would have lit up like a Christmas tree. So when is a good time to hear something you dont want to hear? I refer you to Winnipesaukee's excellent post this AM on the speed limit thread. He discusses when it's appropriate to discuss the war in Iraq after another soldier has died...immediatly. The driver in this accident was a spokesperson for an anti speed limit organization, in other words she was political. Politicizing this accident? It's like someone being accused of politicizing the Iraq war. As alluded to in other forums, clearly this subject additionally touches a nerve for the GFBL no speed limit crowd because after this accident, any remaining shred of credibility for this group vaporized (see links below).
Mr. Beaudoin is quoted as saying that he didn't know why they were going so fast. Are you going to tell him to shut his mouth too?
For another perspective on how people view some of these recent events, check out the thread under boatered.com; even more revealing are the comments/letters section in today's Union Leader following the article about the accident. I think you may be surprised at some of the comments that appear in forums that are not so predominantly weighted by the GFBL/no limits crowd.
Given the tone of your angry diatribe, you will of course minimize the fact that people on the speed limit side have and continue to offer condolences (including myself) to the victim(s). And a fitting tribute to Ms. Beaudoin would be to decrease the chances that this happens again.
So VtSteve...please check out these links
Reform This VtSteve...see how silly this looks

[Woodsy]

Turtle Boy... and others!

Your way off base here. Until the experts weigh in on the accident, there is no proof that the Formula was exceeding the nighttime limit of 25MPH as proposed by HB-847.

If the accident reconstruction team determines that she was in fact traveling less than the proposed 25 MPH limit, then essentially a speed limit would have done nothing to have prevented this tragedy.

At this point in time, this accident is just that... an accident! The causes of this tragedy will no doubt play out in a VERY public fashion.

Woodsy

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Turtle Boy... and others!

Your way off base here. Until the experts weigh in on the accident, there is no proof that the Formula was exceeding the nighttime limit of 25MPH as proposed by HB-847. In fact I am willing to bet that the boat was more than likely traveling at speed less than 25 MPH. The Formula is a 15,000 lb fiberglass boat striking a 6' high vertical wall!

If the accident reconstruction team determines that she was in fact traveling less than the proposed 25 MPH limit, then essentially a speed limit would have done nothing to have prevented this tragedy.

At this point in time, this accident is just that... an accident! The causes of this tragedy will no doubt play out in a VERY public fashion.

Woodsy

Exactly. Like others, I would "expect" the damage to even more severe if the boat was going fast, but what the heck do I know?

[VtSteve]

Turtle, everything posted here and elsewhere is conjecture, pure and simple. This was a larger boat, apparently off course, and hitting a large object above the waterline. It resulted in loss of life and severe injuries.

We can all speculate about what happened. My initial thoughts are of no valid concern, but they are of genuine horror. This type of accident can happen to anybody, anywhere. We'll probably find out the facts as they become available. For now, I prefer to think it is a terrible tragedy that happened to friends and fellow boaters. I prefer to assume nothing other than a simple accident occurred, because that's just the way I am.

I don't know whether your knee-jerk reaction about the "other" thread is simply because you care so gosh darn much about people, or maybe there's something else going on here. All I know is that Sunday was Father's day, and there some pretty miserable, heartbroken parents out there.

I'm not a GFBL boater, and I'm probably a bit more anal about being cautious than average. Most of us care deeply about friends and family, and take our role and responsibilities as Skipper pretty seriously. I've read the thread over at BoaterEd. Much more civil, but no more informative.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

If the accident reconstruction team determines that she was in fact traveling less than the proposed 25 MPH limit, then essentially a speed limit would have done nothing to have prevented this tragedy.

Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Blizzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night? Some feel that 25 MPH was too high a compromise for night time and that 20 MPH(Squam) or less (some other states) would be more appropriate to consider after HB 847 sunsets.
Anyway, thankyou (seriously) for your calm, measured, polite reply..TB

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night? Some feel that 25 MPH was too high a compromise for night time and that 20 MPH(Squam) or less (some other states) would be more appropriate to consider after HB 847 sunsets.
Anyway, thankyou (seriously) for your calm, measured, polite reply..TB

Thank YOU for your detailed conclusions on the events that transpired. No need to wait for the official investigation now. Case closed. All Hail HB847.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy
Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night?

Originally Posted by Ryan

Thank YOU for your detailed conclusions on the events that transpired. No need to wait for the official investigation now. Case closed. All Hail HB847.

There are no conclusions here, only the statement that if a boater as experienced as Ms. Blizzard can miss this channel, what are we to expect of less experienced boaters.
Your rather nasty, bitter, and sarcastic response is something I've referred to in the past on this forum, that some posters diminish any semblance of civilized and intellectual discourse. Other (former) posters on this forum have contacted me saying this is what made them stop posting here...this near rabid attack against anything at all pro speed limit. What you have left is a forum where nearly everybody has the same opinion. Refer to the posts at boatered.com and after today's article on the accident in the Union Leader if you want to see some other opinions. Don't you think you could do better than this Ryan?

[B R]

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

[Islander]

Originally Posted by B R

A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd.

I think you are not looking hard enough!

The "leaders" of the pro-speed limit side has been either silent or extremely sympathetic. I did a quick check and find that the four members you are talking about have 30, 36, 32 and 5 posts. I don't think they represent our movement.

My heart goes out to the families involved. This is not the time for idle speculation.

[2Blackdogs]

BR:

Oh, you can say that Erica is paying the price all right, and sympathies did abound back then, but your memory of the outrage during Mr Hartman's tragic death tells us "You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know".

This forum ranted for days even before we learned who the perpetrator was and where his boat was hidden away. The white stern light was indeed used as a good defense by some still posting here.

Years later, the legal team of Sisti & Twomey was criticized by one of the same posters as being inadequate for Pamela Smart's successful murder of her husband, "so what could Littlefield have expected when he hired the same New Hampshire legal team?"

The outrageous support continues.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by B R

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

Now now. What is not very helpful is that the PSL crowd refuses to acknowledge anything other than a simple speed limit law.

In each and every case presented, time after time, probably this one as well, existing laws were broken, or, it was just an accident due to human misjudgment.

They simply cannot deal with not having a neat little legislation package to feel good about. I know these accidents frustrate many, especially the ones that have been discussed many times. The 28 mph accident was infamous for misunderstanding the problem. In areas of increased enforcement all around the country, accidents go down over the long run, and best of all, repeat offenders get thrown out.

It's not a perfect world, and stuff happens.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by B R

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

.Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members.

Then stay FAR away from the lake. Anything less greatly increases your risk of being involved in a random accident.

All the legislation in the world won't make the lake "safe". Legislating to get as close as reasonably possible goes against most of the founding principles of this country and only serves to dumb down society.

Next you'll be recommending that we all take a gramme Soma...

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

I fully understand your agenda. However this is not the time or the place to push that agenda. You are doing your cause more harm than good in my opinion. Give it a rest for now.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

I don't think that the either group would like to see a boat land on anyone. This was an accident, there is a set of circumstances that caused it to happen, and we don't know what those circumstances are. You talk about what could happen, a boat hitting your house and landing in your Grandson's bedroom. At this time you thankfully don't have to deal with a tragedy. You don't think that it is self-serving to use this tragedy to further your agenda? People on this forum know the families, and are in pain. There is a time and a place for debate and this isn't one of them. Let the authorities complete their investigation before yo pass judgment.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy
Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night?

Referring to her as Erica Hazzard is just plain rude and uncalled for, especially given the circumstances. For whatever the reasoning may be, she probably has more boating experience than you or most on this forum. She grew up in the industry. Put your head back in your shell or go troll elsewhere.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Referring to her as Erica Hazzard is just plain rude and uncalled for, especially given the circumstances. For whatever the reasoning may be, she probably has more boating experience than you or most on this forum. She grew up in the industry. Put your head back in your shell or go troll elsewhere.

Go back to my origional post and you will see that this was quickly (and I thought) quietly corrected. I was reading the post to my wife and realized the mistake and said, "oh boy, give me the lap top, they'll go nuts over this one". However, if you check the phone book, you probably will find that Blizzard and Hazzard are both equally uncommon surnames. Truly no offense was intended by this mistake.
As far as your rude and prickley comment about putting my head in my shell or go troll elsewhere, I put forth my inference from earlier that it is sad that one of your most visible spokespersons tacitly became one of ours last weekend. Yes, the last shred of credibility of the GFBL/no limits crowd vaporized with this accident. Very sad

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Go back to my origional post and you will see that this was quickly (and I thought) quietly corrected. I was reading the post to my wife and realized the mistake and said, "oh boy, give me the lap top, they'll go nuts over this one". However, if you check the phone book, you probably will find that Blizzard and Hazzard are both equally uncommon surnames. Truly no offense was intended by this mistake.
As far as your rude and prickley comment about putting my head in my shell or go troll elsewhere, I put forth my inference from earlier that it is sad that one of your most visible spokespersons tacitly became one of ours last weekend. Yes, the last shred of credibility of the GFBL/no limits crowd vaporized with this accident. Very sad

Wow.. ive never heard anyone sensationalize anything so much.. Your what I would call the quitisential finger pointer "See, SEE what can happen" when not only do you have no facts to base your rediculous rantings on you show absolutly no empathy for the families who have actually lost a family member.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night? Some feel that 25 MPH was too high a compromise for night time and that 20 MPH(Squam) or less (some other states) would be more appropriate to consider after HB 847 sunsets.
Anyway, thankyou (seriously) for your calm, measured, polite reply..TB

The laws currently provide that everyone is responsible for piloting their boats in a manner that is safe in the given conditions. I know many like solid numbers, laws, tables and data. Too fast for given conditions is a common citing in many accidents. It can be as slow as 1 mph as far as I'm concerned. I'm not scared about night boating, but I am scared about boaters without lights, kayaks on moonless nights, fog, I'm just cautious. But many seem to need a special law.

It appears from the data so far that it was at least very dark, likely raining, "possibly" foggy. I'd be going slow on a night like that. I'd probably not go out on the lake if I didn't have to. If those very conditions existed at the time of the accident, then the you know what would have been superseded by the old laws anyway. And I think you know that.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

The laws currently provide that everyone is responsible for piloting their boats in a manner that is safe in the given conditions. I know many like solid numbers, laws, tables and data. Too fast for given conditions is a common citing in many accidents. It can be as slow as 1 mph as far as I'm concerned. I'm not scared about night boating, but I am scared about boaters without lights, kayaks on moonless nights, fog, I'm just cautious. But many seem to need a special law.

It appears from the data so far that it was at least very dark, likely raining, "possibly" foggy. I'd be going slow on a night like that. I'd probably not go out on the lake if I didn't have to. If those very conditions existed at the time of the accident, then the you know what would have been superseded by the old laws anyway. And I think you know that.

And I do see your point and am grateful that the tone here has ratcheted down a notch (mine too). My concern is that on a dark foggy rainy night, to do the damage I saw on that boat, 25 MPH would not fit the "reasonable and prudent" criteria. We'll just have to wait and see.
And I'm sorry if it seemed I was belittling your earlier post. What strikes a nerve with me is that on this forum the speed limit people have often been portrayed as being pure evil. I know (all) of you don't believe this. I''m very protective of my small family and do not want to wake up at 2:30 AM with a 37' formula boat in my grandson's bed on top of him, or for him to be hit in the open water as happened to that man in '02 in Meredith.
Anyway,thanks...TB

[kjbathe]

Against my better judgment, here goes...

No speed limit, no matter how high or low it's set, is going to be a magic prevent-all for accidents. Short of banning human presence on the water's surface, there is nothing that will prevent an operator from accidentally missing a marker, hitting a shoal, or running into an island. It might help minimize the damage if one does those things at a lower speed, but we can't legislate away the fact that accidents can and will happen.

That being said, all we know right now is enough to fuel conjecture and speculation. We can only guess at speed. We don't know for certain who was at the helm (although we think we have an idea based on press reports). We've heard conflicting reports about the weather -- was it foggy, rainy, had it cleared, was there some moonlight? Those reports came from different observations around the lake at differing times on the night in question. I've looked across that part of the lake from the shore on a mostly clear night and viewed only inky darkness over the water where I knew a Diamond and a Rattlesnake Island should be, but darned if I could see them. Multiply that 10-fold trying to figure it out while under way. We just don't know.

Now, also against my better judgment, I'm going to hazard a semi-educated guess at speed and do so based solely on the weight, position and damage of the boat shown in the photo above and some common references. I'll admit my marine structural engineering experience comes from designing nuclear-powered underwater weapons platforms with advanced materials and not the composite-layup pleasure boats being discussed here, but the fundamental engineering principles don't change. (Great.... more speculation.... )

Last year a boat ran aground on Eagle Island and ended up ON EAGLE ISLAND, well into the trees. That wasn't the case in this accident. And in looking at the photos, the damage is limited to the first 20% or so of the length. What looks catastrophic at first seems to be fairly well contained. It appears the top portion of the bow remains intact although disconnected, possibly sheared horizontally where it came in contact to what appears to be a roughly 90-degree edge of the rock in the Channel 9 video. That seems reasonable on the surface. In addition, the rest of the hull appears to have split and peeled back along the keel line. Those are what the two flaps of hull hanging down look like to me. This also seems like a reasonable mode of crack propagation and failure for perpendicular contact of the rigid axis of the hull to a stationary surface. In the photo, the lift harness is compressing the deck and hull and some delamination of the deck/hull interface seems to be present. I don't know if this is a result of loading/unloading of the boat by crane after the designed structural integrity of the vessel had been compromised, or if that was a result of the collision itself, but for the sake of speculation, I'll guess the latter.

What I'd really like to know is how heavy the anchor is and how far away the summer camp is that allegedly got nicked by the anchor. Putting those two pieces together would give us an approximate idea of the momentum present and required to get the anchor from the boat to the building, thus yielding an approximate speed of the boat at the point of anchor departure. But even then, that calculation quickly gets complicated by whether or not the anchor was mounted, how much drag there was on the winding mechanism, blah, blah, blah, but it would be nice to know.

Anyway, that the boat reportedly came to rest in the water and not ON the island, that the hull structural failure is limited to the front of the boat and that it appears to be relatively well contained separation and delamination, and that we can't currently account for the cause of the hull/deck separation (although I'd be comfortable assuming initially that this is where much of the collision energy may have been dissipated, also accounting for the reported loud noise), I'm guessing (emphasis on guessing) that people will be surprised at the speed with which this collision took place. I'm way way way out here on this limb speculating based on many assumptions and one photo, but I don't think the speed at impact is going to be nearly as high as people think it was. But time will bear that out.

We now return to our regularly-scheduled agenda-driven finger pointing...

[2Blackdogs]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Turtle Boy... and others!

Your way off base here. Until the experts weigh in on the accident, there is no proof that the Formula was exceeding the nighttime limit of 25MPH as proposed by HB-847. In fact I am willing to bet that the boat was more than likely traveling at speed less than 25 MPH. The Formula is a 15,000 lb fiberglass boat striking a 6' high vertical wall!

If the accident reconstruction team determines that she was in fact traveling less than the proposed 25 MPH limit, then essentially a speed limit would have done nothing to have prevented this tragedy.

At this point in time, this accident is just that... an accident! The causes of this tragedy will no doubt play out in a VERY public fashion.

Woodsy

Woodsy, everyone is calling for "no speculation", but you're already calling the speed under 25!

If you'd been at the scene, you'd see that the "6' vertical wall" is actually much less than that. If I'd been standing in a canoe, I'd be looking down at that "wall", not up, and I'm under 6' tall, I assure you.

Even now, as the summer continues to empty the lake, the lake is not at the same level as when I was there. If we're going to speculate as to speed, as SIKSUKR and Woodsy are here, it's really too late to see if the wall is really only 4' or even 3', and the boat well up on plane.

The existing boat could be put on a test sled, and see how far an unsecured anchor would fly.... to strike a wood target at deck height ....when the sled's forward momentum is arrested by cable or chain.

Now, why is it okay to speculate here today and to abandon the discussion already started at the Speed Limits sub-forum? "Hush-hush" seems to be the word of the day!

And isn't Lt. Dunleavy the officer who converted Littlefield's self-suggested 2800 rpms into 28mph?

A "fact" we've been stuck with all these years?

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by 2Blackdogs

And isn't Lt. Dunleavy the officer who converted Littlefield's self-suggested 2800 rpms into 28mph?
A "fact" we've been stuck with all these years?

That speed of 28mph was not plucked out of the air but was confirmed in ways other than rpm claimed by the operator. It was determined by exhaustive testing and accident reconstruction by extremely qualified MP officers and personnel. To suggest other is inflammatory and disrespectful to those entrusted by the State to investigate. If LT. Dunleavy said 28mph, then that is what it was.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by NightWing

That speed of 28mph was not plucked out of the air but was confirmed in ways other than rpm claimed by the operator. It was determined by exhaustive testing and accident reconstruction by extremely qualified MP officers and personnel. To suggest other is inflammatory and disrespectful to those entrusted by the State to investigate. If LT. Dunleavy said 28mph, then that is what it was.

Estimated to be 28 mph, he estimated it.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by ITD

Estimated to be 28 mph, he estimated it.

Given, but it was based on the accident reconstruction and investigation. Don't roll your eyes so much. They may stick that way. (OWT)

[The Big Kahuna]

It might have been Erica's boat, but who says she was driving? Maybe she was letting someone else drive, that may explain a lot.