Boating Accident/Death off Diamond Island

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night? Some feel that 25 MPH was too high a compromise for night time and that 20 MPH(Squam) or less (some other states) would be more appropriate to consider after HB 847 sunsets.
Anyway, thankyou (seriously) for your calm, measured, polite reply..TB

Thank YOU for your detailed conclusions on the events that transpired. No need to wait for the official investigation now. Case closed. All Hail HB847.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy
Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night?

Originally Posted by Ryan

Thank YOU for your detailed conclusions on the events that transpired. No need to wait for the official investigation now. Case closed. All Hail HB847.

There are no conclusions here, only the statement that if a boater as experienced as Ms. Blizzard can miss this channel, what are we to expect of less experienced boaters.
Your rather nasty, bitter, and sarcastic response is something I've referred to in the past on this forum, that some posters diminish any semblance of civilized and intellectual discourse. Other (former) posters on this forum have contacted me saying this is what made them stop posting here...this near rabid attack against anything at all pro speed limit. What you have left is a forum where nearly everybody has the same opinion. Refer to the posts at boatered.com and after today's article on the accident in the Union Leader if you want to see some other opinions. Don't you think you could do better than this Ryan?

[B R]

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

[Islander]

Originally Posted by B R

A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd.

I think you are not looking hard enough!

The "leaders" of the pro-speed limit side has been either silent or extremely sympathetic. I did a quick check and find that the four members you are talking about have 30, 36, 32 and 5 posts. I don't think they represent our movement.

My heart goes out to the families involved. This is not the time for idle speculation.

[2Blackdogs]

BR:

Oh, you can say that Erica is paying the price all right, and sympathies did abound back then, but your memory of the outrage during Mr Hartman's tragic death tells us "You ain't gonna learn what you don't want to know".

This forum ranted for days even before we learned who the perpetrator was and where his boat was hidden away. The white stern light was indeed used as a good defense by some still posting here.

Years later, the legal team of Sisti & Twomey was criticized by one of the same posters as being inadequate for Pamela Smart's successful murder of her husband, "so what could Littlefield have expected when he hired the same New Hampshire legal team?"

The outrageous support continues.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by B R

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

Now now. What is not very helpful is that the PSL crowd refuses to acknowledge anything other than a simple speed limit law.

In each and every case presented, time after time, probably this one as well, existing laws were broken, or, it was just an accident due to human misjudgment.

They simply cannot deal with not having a neat little legislation package to feel good about. I know these accidents frustrate many, especially the ones that have been discussed many times. The 28 mph accident was infamous for misunderstanding the problem. In areas of increased enforcement all around the country, accidents go down over the long run, and best of all, repeat offenders get thrown out.

It's not a perfect world, and stuff happens.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by B R

TB,

The difference here is you are trying to promote an agenda and Erica is the one paying the price. When Mr Hartman was tragically killed, no one on this forum tried to do anything but write sympathies to the families. When the trial tried to bring up the "there was no light on his boat at the time" theory, no one here used that and promoted it as even a remote possibility. A lot of us don't see the same sympathy coming from the pro-speed limit crowd. We see them using this tragic accident to promote their cause and I personally find it very distasteful.

Go ahead, attack!!!

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

.Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members.

Then stay FAR away from the lake. Anything less greatly increases your risk of being involved in a random accident.

All the legislation in the world won't make the lake "safe". Legislating to get as close as reasonably possible goes against most of the founding principles of this country and only serves to dumb down society.

Next you'll be recommending that we all take a gramme Soma...

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

I fully understand your agenda. However this is not the time or the place to push that agenda. You are doing your cause more harm than good in my opinion. Give it a rest for now.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I fully understand your agenda. However this is not the time or the place to push that agenda. You are doing your cause more harm than good in my opinion. Give it a rest for now.

Please refer to Winnipesaukee's post on the speed limit thread from earlier this am

[Turtle Boy]

in fact, here it is

As the U.S. Constitution says, the press (i.e. truth telling) is absolutely necessary in order to have a free state. When we allow the press to take steps away from truth-telling, it affects us all.

Where in the Constitution does it say anything remotely close that? The First Amendment guarantees the press freedom to publish information (whether truthful or not--it doesn't specify, nor does it need to) without the government interfering with it or censoring it in any way.

This forum is a form of the press and its users have the freedom of expression on it--although the Webmaster has a right to censor, but is very good about keeping it a medium for the free exchange of information.

The 1A was created to protect both the popular views of the majority AND the unpopular views of the minority. Anyone here is free to discuss the speed limit debate with regard to the recent accident and that discussion should be respected. There is already a thread of everyone sending their condolences to the families involved.

Given that, it is both healthy and beneficial to the Winnipesaukee community for there to be a thread about this. There was no "grieving-period wait" to discuss the politics of 9/11. We continue to discuss the politics of the conflict in Iraq, and do not "wait" a period of time every time a soldier dies. Yes, we all feel terrible about the accident and wish the families the best. But there is more to discuss.

[Bear Islander]

And I have the right to MY opinion. At this time people are in shock, angry, frustrated or emotional. You are not going to change any minds in this environment. You can only push both sides farther apart.

In this life there is a time to speak up, and a time to shut up, this is the latter.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

And I have the right to MY opinion. At this time people are in shock, angry, frustrated or emotional. You are not going to change any minds in this environment. You can only push both sides farther apart.

In this life there is a time to speak up, and a time to shut up, this is the latter.

Thanks BI.Erica Hazzard huh?This clown is way out of line.Just incredibly brutal.I hope you never have to read crap like this about one of your friends.

[B R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I fully understand your agenda. However this is not the time or the place to push that agenda. You are doing your cause more harm than good in my opinion. Give it a rest for now.

Thank you.

We'll have facts at some point and I'm sure it will be discussed fully then. For now, everything is pure speculation and nothing more.

[parrothead]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

But wait a minute. I respectfully want to point out my post from 4:33 PM today. My "agenda" is that I would not want this 37 foot Formula boat to be landing in my grandson's bedroom at 2:30 AM. Clearly the GFBL/ no speed limits people have an agenda too. "Promote my cause"?...Sure...my cause is that I don't want a boat similar to the one involved in the fatal accident this past weekend to kill one of my family members. I would find that to be very distasteful. And as my previous posts infer, what the speed limit proponents also find distasteful is the premise made by people like you that this "agenda" of concern for their family is so inherently evil and self-serving.

I don't think that the either group would like to see a boat land on anyone. This was an accident, there is a set of circumstances that caused it to happen, and we don't know what those circumstances are. You talk about what could happen, a boat hitting your house and landing in your Grandson's bedroom. At this time you thankfully don't have to deal with a tragedy. You don't think that it is self-serving to use this tragedy to further your agenda? People on this forum know the families, and are in pain. There is a time and a place for debate and this isn't one of them. Let the authorities complete their investigation before yo pass judgment.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy
Though in reality if a boater as experienced as Erica Hazzard misses the channel between Diamond and Rattlesnake at night at 25 MPH, how does that bode for the average (less experienced)boater going 25 MPH at night?

Referring to her as Erica Hazzard is just plain rude and uncalled for, especially given the circumstances. For whatever the reasoning may be, she probably has more boating experience than you or most on this forum. She grew up in the industry. Put your head back in your shell or go troll elsewhere.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Referring to her as Erica Hazzard is just plain rude and uncalled for, especially given the circumstances. For whatever the reasoning may be, she probably has more boating experience than you or most on this forum. She grew up in the industry. Put your head back in your shell or go troll elsewhere.

Go back to my origional post and you will see that this was quickly (and I thought) quietly corrected. I was reading the post to my wife and realized the mistake and said, "oh boy, give me the lap top, they'll go nuts over this one". However, if you check the phone book, you probably will find that Blizzard and Hazzard are both equally uncommon surnames. Truly no offense was intended by this mistake.
As far as your rude and prickley comment about putting my head in my shell or go troll elsewhere, I put forth my inference from earlier that it is sad that one of your most visible spokespersons tacitly became one of ours last weekend. Yes, the last shred of credibility of the GFBL/no limits crowd vaporized with this accident. Very sad

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Go back to my origional post and you will see that this was quickly (and I thought) quietly corrected. I was reading the post to my wife and realized the mistake and said, "oh boy, give me the lap top, they'll go nuts over this one". However, if you check the phone book, you probably will find that Blizzard and Hazzard are both equally uncommon surnames. Truly no offense was intended by this mistake.
As far as your rude and prickley comment about putting my head in my shell or go troll elsewhere, I put forth my inference from earlier that it is sad that one of your most visible spokespersons tacitly became one of ours last weekend. Yes, the last shred of credibility of the GFBL/no limits crowd vaporized with this accident. Very sad

Wow.. ive never heard anyone sensationalize anything so much.. Your what I would call the quitisential finger pointer "See, SEE what can happen" when not only do you have no facts to base your rediculous rantings on you show absolutly no empathy for the families who have actually lost a family member.