Marine Patrol, Friday Night (4rth) at Weirs

Airwaves · 07-06-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by codeman671
I agree that they have been out in full force and doing their jobs, but some of them need to learn what "NO WAKE" means. I was heading in in to Glendale at 5pm today and stopped in the broads to pick up a beach ball when an MP RIB passsed in front of me about 75' out and sent a wall of water over the front of my tritoon soaking us. He was just cruising at 10-15mph I am guessing. I had the right of way and was moving forward at idle.

Did you hail the Marine Patrol on VHF 16 to complain?

I know that for some reason the NHMP boats don't carry a VHF Marine radio but HQ is supposed to monitor VHF16.

I would have hailed MP HQ and complained! Then followed up with a written report if necessary!

I have also gone through that area and been overtaken by MP boats traveling at excessive speed heading back to HQ, violating my 150' as well as the overtaking rule!

It seems that some of these folks don't believe any of the rules apply to them! In my case I did not have a cell or VHF on the boat I was operating at the time. I have since put NHMP in speed dial and installed VHF!

codeman671 · 07-07-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Did you hail the Marine Patrol on VHF 16 to complain?

I know that for some reason the NHMP boats don't carry a VHF Marine radio but HQ is supposed to monitor VHF16.

I would have hailed MP HQ and complained! Then followed up with a written report if necessary!

I have also gone through that area and been overtaken by MP boats traveling at excessive speed heading back to HQ, violating my 150' as well as the overtaking rule!

It seems that some of these folks don't believe any of the rules apply to them! In my case I did not have a cell or VHF on the boat I was operating at the time. I have since put NHMP in speed dial and installed VHF!

I did not have a VHF onboard and felt that the phone call would have gone to deaf ears. I have noticed it a lot lately though, especially in the Glendale area.

kjbathe · 07-07-2008, 09:16 AM

...because our annual "Complain about Marine Patrol" thread has officially begun!

I personally like the job they do, am happy when they pull intoxicated operators off the water and take actions to enforce the regulations. Sure, I wish they could bag every offender of the 150' rule, but reasonable people understand that MP can't be everywhere all the time. Some people feel MP is just out there to hassle folks, but that's an argument of convenience and one completely inconsistent with my experience. Then again, not being engaged in the type of behavior or operation that catches MP's watchful eye makes avoidance of the "hassle" a rather trivial exercise.

And for the folks complaining about the excess brightness of their lights... Our being "blinded" is not entirely unintentional. It is part of the overall system officers use to help increase their own safety. If you can't see, perhaps you shouldn't be moving.

And just because it was a great weekend -- RAH RAH RAH!!! GO MP!!!

sa meredith · 07-07-2008, 09:39 AM

[QUOTE=kjbathe;75263]...because our annual "Complain about Marine Patrol" thread has officially begun!

As the starter of this thread, I went back and re-read my post. I can't find a complaint or anything like one in it. I just had never seen MP jumping from boat to boat like I did Friday night. And I was wondering if this is an acceptable/ common practice.
I actually think it is probably a good idea. Drinking and boating at night is a recipe for disaster.

I guess I see you point though, kjbathe, reading thru about the blue lights and so forth.
I think the MP have a fairly difficult job.

SIKSUKR · 07-07-2008, 10:02 AM

Yesterday I was floating on my PWC south of Welch Island and a MP boat pulled up to me.I thought,he's going to do a safety check so I started getting my certification Id out.He pulled up and asked if everything was ok and when I said yes,he waved and moved on.

pmj · 07-07-2008, 12:42 PM

I personally am glad they are doing their job . Think of it this way..If any of those checkpoints resulted in one life being saved, just one..was it worth it?? You bet it was. Sure, its seen as an inconvenience, but safety is number one priority.

I posted this on another thread but here is an incident that made me happy that the MP are present on the lake:

We were once outside of Wolfeboro Bay on our 21ft sailboat when some strong gusts started blowing through. I went up on deck (with life jacket on) to take down the main. Right about the same time, an MP was trolling about and slowed down, obviously watching us, then just idled. Once I had the sail down and all lines secure I retreated back to the cockpit. We had the motor on by that point and headed towards home. The MP waved and continued on his patrol. I was pretty impressed at that. I think he was just making sure we were safe and didn't get into any trouble taking down the sails.
pmj

jrc · 07-07-2008, 07:47 PM

In this country and state, the courts decided how our rights against illegal search and seizure are applied to many different situations, including being stopped in a boat by a marine patrol. You may be willing to give up those rights for a extra safety but a lot of people are not.

I hope the MP did everything by the book. From what I've learned from Skip, that means they must have articulatable suspicion before stopping. Now you might say that having a checkpoint is worth it if just one life is saved. But if the checkpoint turns out to be illegal then all the evidence found is gone. So all the people that could be fined or jailed could go free.

I'm all for the MP making visible presence and stopping even small infractions to check for drunks. I just don't want overzealous people to make illegal stops. That doesn't do anyone any good. It violates our rights and risks letting guilty people go free.

VtSteve · 07-07-2008, 09:04 PM

I'm sure they are very sensitive to the public's concern over the latest boating accident, and the "unconfirmed" reports derived from it. I'm not against it at all, and I hope it does act as an overall deterrent, but just sayin ....

Mr. Moyer · 07-08-2008, 06:50 AM

I must agree with jrc on this matter. I for one am very pleased with the MP on Winnie, but have to admit that I am not for eliminnating my rights to random checks. As mentioned in my last enry, I did deserve to get pulled over, due to a safety light which was burned out. I deem this a reason to be pulled over and well they are discussing the infraction, to pull the saftey check, registrataion pull and the such. The one thing I am against is unannounced bui checks and random stops. This a major deterent yes, but can serve a greater harm to the community.
We have discussed on numerous threads how the local economy is hurting. I ask any retail/ restaurant business owner to answer honestly if they want dui/bui/safety checkpoints in front of their establishment. The obvious answer is no. This will deter customers from coming. Yes I agree that the drunk patrons are not needed by any establishment and in my opinion anyone operating drunk on the lake should be ashamed of themselves knowing the dangers. The problem is those law abiding citizens, who go out for a beer or dinner and just don't want to be hassled, by random stops or the consequential safety check.

I'll give an example. Last week I was going to go to lunch in Wolfboro both days. After the first day, I was approached by someone at the docks and was told be careful, MP was doing random safety checks all weekend. Since I wasn't sure if my fire extinguisher was charged or that all of my safety equip was up to date, I hottailed it out of there and decided not to risk it the next morning. Turns out it was a voluntary safety chech from a helpful group on the lake and not MP, but the point is that I didn't go back and spend $75-$100 at the dock area the next day, we stayed at the cabin instead.
It turns out from my MP stop the next weekend that all of my info was up to date and my extinguisher was charged.
This is a factor that I haven't seen mentioned by anyone. I'm assuming no one owns a retail business where theyre have been a history of DUI stops or even police in the area. There was actually a lawsuit in FLA around a routine weekend dui stop that put a restaurant out of business. Don't have the link, but something to think about. As mentioned earlier, I would think there are so many great stories about the MP on this lake. They seem to get it, I think the reason for this thread was to alert anyone to the concerns of random stops on numerous fronts. just my 10 cents worth.

Kona Family · 07-08-2008, 09:29 AM

Sounds like everyone agrees MP should be very active pulling over violators. However, do they still have the right to pull over any boater without reason? I know last year they could pull over any boat, any time whether you did something wrong or not and proceed to inspect your vessel, safety equipment, etc.

kchace · 07-08-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kona Family

Sounds like everyone agrees MP should be very active pulling over violators. However, do they still have the right to pull over any boater without reason? I know last year they could pull over any boat, any time whether you did something wrong or not and proceed to inspect your vessel, safety equipment, etc.

This is my understanding. If its different now, I'd like to know the details and the source - not hearsay.

Ken

NightWing · 07-08-2008, 09:50 AM

Marine Patrol has the authority to perform safety checks anytime. Past practice has been that a boat will not be stopped just for an inspection but every boat stopped will be inspected.

If you still question the NHMP policy, why not call them and ask a supervisor?

293-2037

Rattlesnake Guy · 07-08-2008, 07:41 PM

I am happy to say that we have never been stopped. Now that the boys are older and more likely to be out alone than not, I should remind them where all the stuff is that they would get asked about if stopped.

Is my list complete of what they will ask for?

Boat Registration
Boater Education Certificate
Life Vest for every passenger
Throw-able Ring or Cushion
Fire Extinguisher
Horn or Whistle

Anything else they ask for???

Thanks and safe boating

jrc · 07-08-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

I am happy to say that we have never been stopped. Now that the boys are older and more likely to be out alone than not, I should remind them where all the stuff is that they would get asked about if stopped.

Is my list complete of what they will ask for?

Boat Registration
Boater Education Certificate
Life Vest for every passenger
Throw-able Ring or Cushion
Fire Extinguisher
Horn or Whistle

Anything else they ask for???

Thanks and safe boating

If you are in a motor boat over 26'
You need two fire extinguishers, one can be fixed in the engine space
You also need a bell and a whistle, hand, mouth or powered (I think your boat horn counts as a powered whistle)

If you are in a motor boat over 40'
You need three fire extinguishers, one can be fixed in the engine space
You still need a bell and a powered whistle (again, I think your boat horn counts)

Plus they can check that the lights work. They have to work even if you never plan to go out at night.

Mike M. · 07-13-2008, 04:35 PM

Has anyone confirmed whether the MP can legally stop you without a reason? Any links would be appreciated.

Thank you

Mr. Moyer · 07-13-2008, 05:27 PM

KJ bath,

As I'm sure you read in my post, I was stopped the following day and had all of my appropriate equiptment on board. The concern I have is that some obsure rule or a new ordinance, or whatever costs me a couple of hundred dollars that i would rather not spend for the MP college fund. I'm pretty good about trying to upkeep the boat, but it is by far not my largest priority in life. I am in the midst of rehabbing a house in Alton, so some things get missed.
I don't have anywhere near the faith that you do in our MP's intentions. They are having a slow year, so they are more likly to pull over boats. This is a quote of an MP officer to my fiend who got stopped sat on his way from rattlesnake to west alton marina because of speed in a pontoon boat whose max speed is 35 mph. Ironically he also had out of state registration. My concern is not that I'm doing anything wrong, but that I missed something by accident etc. and it costs me hard earned money.

Would you feel the same if a cop pulled you over randomly to check to see if your registration was up to date without just cause. I don't think you would, but I don't know you personally. I can only speak for myself and my response to that is, leve me alone unless I'm doing something illegal or dangerous or both.

As you recall the stop was justified (my nav lites were out), so I certaintly don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with harrassing stops, to accomplish quotas or to justify the mp time spent on the water. I think the only justification needed is that all stay safe. I will rarely chastise the MP, because I do appreciate their efforts and think there job in most case is thankless.
Hope you all had a great weekend on the lake, I certaintly did and looking foreward to nice weather next weeknd. see you all out there,

NightWing · 07-13-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike M.

Has anyone confirmed whether the MP can legally stop you without a reason? Any links would be appreciated.

Thank you

You don't need a link. It has been posted here dozens of times. If you can't find the answer or don't believe it, make the call.

293-2037

Mike M. · 07-13-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightWing

You don't need a link. It has been posted here dozens of times. If you can't find the answer or don't believe it, make the call.

293-2037

It has nothing to do with believing what I'm reading, my confusion is because I have just read multiple responses to my question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kchane

Actually, the rules for pulling over a car and a boat are completely different. The MP (or Coast Guard et al) do not need ANY reason at all to stop a boat and check it out. Here is one RSA that I found that mentions the matter. There are federal laws as well that essentially say the same thing that apply when in Coast Guard patrolled waters.

270-D:6 Inspections. – All vessels afloat on public waters may be inspected by the commissioner or his duly authorized representative, to determine their seaworthiness and safety equipment at any time. No person shall allow any vessel which fails to pass such inspection to be used or operated on the waters of this state until brought into compliance.

Notice that it says "at any time" and that there are no prerequisites.

Here is a link to the CG rule:

http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/law_board.htm

Ken

and...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

I believe a recent NH Supreme Court decision said that was incorrect. NH police including NHMP need probable cause for stops. No more random "safety inspections" was the main result. It's possible they can do BWI check-points the same as land police do for DWI, and they have been accused of "forcing" '150ft rule' violations to justify a stop.

Once they stop your boat for anything they can then do a safety check and if they observe behaviors that indicate intoxicaton, or turn up other violations, they can act. This is probably something a good lawyer could get thrown out if you can afford to fight it through apeals. I'm sure our legal expert, Skip, will clarifiy this if I'm too far off the mark. Still it's safer to behave than trust the court will see it your way.

So I guess I’m just confused because of my ignorance of the law.

States should have jurisdiction over federal law, but clearly federal law is enforced in states that have deemed some federal laws unconstitutional.

So if NH supreme court upholds our constitutional rights but there is a federal law allowing the coast guard to inspect any boat, does that mean you could potentially be stopped and searched in NH waters by the coast guard 'legally'?

I guess I will just give them a call tomorrow to find out.

Airwaves · 07-13-2008, 09:53 PM

Mike M
This took me a while to understand as well.

1. Lake Winnipesaukee is NOT a federal waterway. Therefore Coast Guard rules and regulations do not apply.

2. While the Coast Guard can stop a vessel at any time for any reason especially now under Homeland Security Rules there are no Coast Guard vessels on Lake Winnipesaukee.

3. If you are stopped by a NH Marine Patrol boat ask them, nicely, why they are stopping you. If they say a "routine safety check" then I would (again nicely) question their authority to stop you for a "routine safety check" by contacting THEIR SUPERVISOR FIRST via Cell or VHF.

4. If you can not contact their supervisor then submit to the routine safety check, write down the officer's name(s), note the time, possition and exactly what happened in your log.

Did you know all boats are supposed to carry logs and record their voyages? Not many boaters keep a log on Lake Winnipesaukee but it certainly comes in handy in cases like this.

I believe in NH you can record the stop on video but NOT NOT NOT audio so turning on your cellphone video function is NOT a good idea!

Then question what happened with someone knowledgeable about these things....a lawyer you know casually, show them your log.

If you (everyone on Lake Winnipesaukee) don't keep a log on your boat I'd start today since next year the new law HB847 take effect and will impact your drivers license.

A properly maintained "ship's" log can be considered a legal document but something hit and miss won't be considered. Every time you leave the dock write it down and keep it on board. (notebook is fine) Departure date and time, weather, destination, I'd suggest listing POB but perhaps a number of POB is better than names in some cases?, arrival, departure, arrival if you get a cell call note the time (not necessarly from whom or why) and especially anything unusual.

Do it beginning today faithfully and until the day you sell the boat and even note the sale of the boat! Keep the log and your "ship's" log is a legal document. If you only do it now and again or only when you're stopped...it won't help at all.

kjbathe · 07-14-2008, 09:15 AM

With all due respect, step 3 amounts to the inverse golden rule. You start being a jerk by questioning the officer's authority to make the stop and the officer will gladly oblige -- as is human nature -- and return in kind. I've known too many law enforcement officials to know anything other than if you help them do their job, they'll help you. But start being a pain about it and wasting their time, and any incentive to be helpful will be lost. That's the point where you get the summons or fine and they just move on. Life's too short for any of us to be dealing with jerks at work. MP is no different.

And I can't believe I'm really reading a suggestion on this forum that we should keep ships logs on the lake, make sure they are legally up to snuff, potentially engage counsel and, IMO, foster an adversarial us vs. them mentality with Marine Patrol.

If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing then MP just becomes another boater out there, the only difference being they have a light bar and we don't. Golden rule, folks. Golden rule....

NightWing · 07-14-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

3. If you are stopped by a NH Marine Patrol boat ask them, nicely, why they are stopping you. If they say a "routine safety check" then I would (again nicely) question their authority to stop you for a "routine safety check" by contacting THEIR SUPERVISOR FIRST via Cell or VHF.

Marine Patrol has the authority to stop any vessel at any time to perform a safety inspection. That has been posted here before.

However, their policy has been not to stop a boat for an inspection, but to inspect every boat that is stopped. That has also been posted before.

The officer should tell you the reason for the stop. Shortly thereafter, he/she will begin a safety check.

For some reason, that initial conversation is forgotten by many posters here and all they can remember is the safety inspection....and that evolves into a statement that they were stopped for a safety inspection which is not the case.

If anybody doubts the policy, call NHMP. 293-2037

HomeWood · 07-14-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Mike M

3. If you are stopped by a NH Marine Patrol boat ask them, nicely, why they are stopping you. If they say a "routine safety check" then I would (again nicely) question their authority to stop you for a "routine safety check" by contacting THEIR SUPERVISOR FIRST via Cell or VHF.

I also suggest doing this if you really want a ticket for some reason.

Nightwing is right, call if you don't believe it. This thread is getting a little repetitive with the "Can the MP really stop you at any time?" questions. Like in court....asked and answered.

I suggest being polite and cooperative the entire time even if you disagree and even if you get a ticket. Calling a supervisor for any questions is done AFTER the stop, not during. Then again....what do I know?

kjbathe · 07-08-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Moyer

Since I wasn't sure if my fire extinguisher was charged or that all of my safety equip was up to date, I hottailed it out of there

I appreciate and share the concerns folks have about protecting their individual rights and making sure searches are legal, but the quote above has me shaking my head.

If you're not sure your equipment is up to snuff, then you should just check it and find out before you go out. Not going to dinner or avoiding MP is missing the point. MP and operators both have the same goal here -- to make sure you have a functional fire extinguisher on board if, God forbid, you should ever need it. That way, he gets to tow in "Annoyed but safe Mr. Moyer" vs. "Charcoal Briquette Mr. Moyer."

I guess it's just perspective. I view MP as being able to confirm what I already know vs. being out to nab me for something I may have missed. I know I'm compliant with the law, but if MP wants to spend 30 minutes to validate my ability to operate and ensure the safety of my vessel, my passengers and those with whom I share the lake, welcome aboard! I know it sounds a little odd, but it's nice to have the second pair of eyes and sanity check that things are as they should be.

07-07-2008, 09:16 AM	#3
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 281 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	Summer must be in full swing... ...because our annual "Complain about Marine Patrol" thread has officially begun! I personally like the job they do, am happy when they pull intoxicated operators off the water and take actions to enforce the regulations. Sure, I wish they could bag every offender of the 150' rule, but reasonable people understand that MP can't be everywhere all the time. Some people feel MP is just out there to hassle folks, but that's an argument of convenience and one completely inconsistent with my experience. Then again, not being engaged in the type of behavior or operation that catches MP's watchful eye makes avoidance of the "hassle" a rather trivial exercise. And for the folks complaining about the excess brightness of their lights... Our being "blinded" is not entirely unintentional. It is part of the overall system officers use to help increase their own safety. If you can't see, perhaps you shouldn't be moving. And just because it was a great weekend -- RAH RAH RAH!!! GO MP!!!

07-07-2008, 09:39 AM	#4
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	complain? [QUOTE=kjbathe;75263]...because our annual "Complain about Marine Patrol" thread has officially begun! As the starter of this thread, I went back and re-read my post. I can't find a complaint or anything like one in it. I just had never seen MP jumping from boat to boat like I did Friday night. And I was wondering if this is an acceptable/ common practice. I actually think it is probably a good idea. Drinking and boating at night is a recipe for disaster. I guess I see you point though, kjbathe, reading thru about the blue lights and so forth. I think the MP have a fairly difficult job.

07-07-2008, 10:02 AM	#5
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	A positive MP sort of a stop. Yesterday I was floating on my PWC south of Welch Island and a MP boat pulled up to me.I thought,he's going to do a safety check so I started getting my certification Id out.He pulled up and asked if everything was ok and when I said yes,he waved and moved on. __________________ SIKSUKR

07-13-2008, 05:27 PM	#16
Mr. Moyer Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i find it hard to belive KJ bath, As I'm sure you read in my post, I was stopped the following day and had all of my appropriate equiptment on board. The concern I have is that some obsure rule or a new ordinance, or whatever costs me a couple of hundred dollars that i would rather not spend for the MP college fund. I'm pretty good about trying to upkeep the boat, but it is by far not my largest priority in life. I am in the midst of rehabbing a house in Alton, so some things get missed. I don't have anywhere near the faith that you do in our MP's intentions. They are having a slow year, so they are more likly to pull over boats. This is a quote of an MP officer to my fiend who got stopped sat on his way from rattlesnake to west alton marina because of speed in a pontoon boat whose max speed is 35 mph. Ironically he also had out of state registration. My concern is not that I'm doing anything wrong, but that I missed something by accident etc. and it costs me hard earned money. Would you feel the same if a cop pulled you over randomly to check to see if your registration was up to date without just cause. I don't think you would, but I don't know you personally. I can only speak for myself and my response to that is, leve me alone unless I'm doing something illegal or dangerous or both. As you recall the stop was justified (my nav lites were out), so I certaintly don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with harrassing stops, to accomplish quotas or to justify the mp time spent on the water. I think the only justification needed is that all stay safe. I will rarely chastise the MP, because I do appreciate their efforts and think there job in most case is thankless. Hope you all had a great weekend on the lake, I certaintly did and looking foreward to nice weather next weeknd. see you all out there,

07-13-2008, 09:53 PM	#19
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Mike M This took me a while to understand as well. 1. Lake Winnipesaukee is NOT a federal waterway. Therefore Coast Guard rules and regulations do not apply. 2. While the Coast Guard can stop a vessel at any time for any reason especially now under Homeland Security Rules there are no Coast Guard vessels on Lake Winnipesaukee. 3. If you are stopped by a NH Marine Patrol boat ask them, nicely, why they are stopping you. If they say a "routine safety check" then I would (again nicely) question their authority to stop you for a "routine safety check" by contacting THEIR SUPERVISOR FIRST via Cell or VHF. 4. If you can not contact their supervisor then submit to the routine safety check, write down the officer's name(s), note the time, possition and exactly what happened in your log. Did you know all boats are supposed to carry logs and record their voyages? Not many boaters keep a log on Lake Winnipesaukee but it certainly comes in handy in cases like this. I believe in NH you can record the stop on video but NOT NOT NOT audio so turning on your cellphone video function is NOT a good idea! Then question what happened with someone knowledgeable about these things....a lawyer you know casually, show them your log. If you (everyone on Lake Winnipesaukee) don't keep a log on your boat I'd start today since next year the new law HB847 take effect and will impact your drivers license. A properly maintained "ship's" log can be considered a legal document but something hit and miss won't be considered. Every time you leave the dock write it down and keep it on board. (notebook is fine) Departure date and time, weather, destination, I'd suggest listing POB but perhaps a number of POB is better than names in some cases?, arrival, departure, arrival if you get a cell call note the time (not necessarly from whom or why) and especially anything unusual. Do it beginning today faithfully and until the day you sell the boat and even note the sale of the boat! Keep the log and your "ship's" log is a legal document. If you only do it now and again or only when you're stopped...it won't help at all. Last edited by Airwaves; 07-13-2008 at 10:40 PM. Reason: paragraph

07-07-2008, 12:42 PM	#6
pmj Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 240 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I personally am glad they are doing their job . Think of it this way..If any of those checkpoints resulted in one life being saved, just one..was it worth it?? You bet it was. Sure, its seen as an inconvenience, but safety is number one priority. I posted this on another thread but here is an incident that made me happy that the MP are present on the lake: We were once outside of Wolfeboro Bay on our 21ft sailboat when some strong gusts started blowing through. I went up on deck (with life jacket on) to take down the main. Right about the same time, an MP was trolling about and slowed down, obviously watching us, then just idled. Once I had the sail down and all lines secure I retreated back to the cockpit. We had the motor on by that point and headed towards home. The MP waved and continued on his patrol. I was pretty impressed at that. I think he was just making sure we were safe and didn't get into any trouble taking down the sails. pmj

07-07-2008, 07:47 PM	#7
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	In this country and state, the courts decided how our rights against illegal search and seizure are applied to many different situations, including being stopped in a boat by a marine patrol. You may be willing to give up those rights for a extra safety but a lot of people are not. I hope the MP did everything by the book. From what I've learned from Skip, that means they must have articulatable suspicion before stopping. Now you might say that having a checkpoint is worth it if just one life is saved. But if the checkpoint turns out to be illegal then all the evidence found is gone. So all the people that could be fined or jailed could go free. I'm all for the MP making visible presence and stopping even small infractions to check for drunks. I just don't want overzealous people to make illegal stops. That doesn't do anyone any good. It violates our rights and risks letting guilty people go free.

07-07-2008, 09:04 PM	#8
VtSteve Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,320 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 230 Thanked 361 Times in 169 Posts	I'm sure they are very sensitive to the public's concern over the latest boating accident, and the "unconfirmed" reports derived from it. I'm not against it at all, and I hope it does act as an overall deterrent, but just sayin ....

07-08-2008, 06:50 AM	#9
Mr. Moyer Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 49 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I must agree with jrc on this matter. I for one am very pleased with the MP on Winnie, but have to admit that I am not for eliminnating my rights to random checks. As mentioned in my last enry, I did deserve to get pulled over, due to a safety light which was burned out. I deem this a reason to be pulled over and well they are discussing the infraction, to pull the saftey check, registrataion pull and the such. The one thing I am against is unannounced bui checks and random stops. This a major deterent yes, but can serve a greater harm to the community. We have discussed on numerous threads how the local economy is hurting. I ask any retail/ restaurant business owner to answer honestly if they want dui/bui/safety checkpoints in front of their establishment. The obvious answer is no. This will deter customers from coming. Yes I agree that the drunk patrons are not needed by any establishment and in my opinion anyone operating drunk on the lake should be ashamed of themselves knowing the dangers. The problem is those law abiding citizens, who go out for a beer or dinner and just don't want to be hassled, by random stops or the consequential safety check. I'll give an example. Last week I was going to go to lunch in Wolfboro both days. After the first day, I was approached by someone at the docks and was told be careful, MP was doing random safety checks all weekend. Since I wasn't sure if my fire extinguisher was charged or that all of my safety equip was up to date, I hottailed it out of there and decided not to risk it the next morning. Turns out it was a voluntary safety chech from a helpful group on the lake and not MP, but the point is that I didn't go back and spend $75-$100 at the dock area the next day, we stayed at the cabin instead. It turns out from my MP stop the next weekend that all of my info was up to date and my extinguisher was charged. This is a factor that I haven't seen mentioned by anyone. I'm assuming no one owns a retail business where theyre have been a history of DUI stops or even police in the area. There was actually a lawsuit in FLA around a routine weekend dui stop that put a restaurant out of business. Don't have the link, but something to think about. As mentioned earlier, I would think there are so many great stories about the MP on this lake. They seem to get it, I think the reason for this thread was to alert anyone to the concerns of random stops on numerous fronts. just my 10 cents worth.

07-08-2008, 09:29 AM	#10
Kona Family Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sounds like everyone agrees MP should be very active pulling over violators. However, do they still have the right to pull over any boater without reason? I know last year they could pull over any boat, any time whether you did something wrong or not and proceed to inspect your vessel, safety equipment, etc.

07-08-2008, 09:50 AM	#12
NightWing Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 410 Thanks: 4 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts	Marine Patrol has the authority to perform safety checks anytime. Past practice has been that a boat will not be stopped just for an inspection but every boat stopped will be inspected. If you still question the NHMP policy, why not call them and ask a supervisor? 293-2037

07-08-2008, 07:41 PM	#13
Rattlesnake Guy Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,254 Thanks: 423 Thanked 366 Times in 175 Posts	I am happy to say that we have never been stopped. Now that the boys are older and more likely to be out alone than not, I should remind them where all the stuff is that they would get asked about if stopped. Is my list complete of what they will ask for? Boat Registration Boater Education Certificate Life Vest for every passenger Throw-able Ring or Cushion Fire Extinguisher Horn or Whistle Anything else they ask for??? Thanks and safe boating

07-13-2008, 04:35 PM	#15
Mike M. Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 40 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Has anyone confirmed whether the MP can legally stop you without a reason? Any links would be appreciated. Thank you

07-14-2008, 09:15 AM	#20
kjbathe Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 281 Thanks: 3 Thanked 21 Times in 11 Posts	Are you serious? With all due respect, step 3 amounts to the inverse golden rule. You start being a jerk by questioning the officer's authority to make the stop and the officer will gladly oblige -- as is human nature -- and return in kind. I've known too many law enforcement officials to know anything other than if you help them do their job, they'll help you. But start being a pain about it and wasting their time, and any incentive to be helpful will be lost. That's the point where you get the summons or fine and they just move on. Life's too short for any of us to be dealing with jerks at work. MP is no different. And I can't believe I'm really reading a suggestion on this forum that we should keep ships logs on the lake, make sure they are legally up to snuff, potentially engage counsel and, IMO, foster an adversarial us vs. them mentality with Marine Patrol. If you're doing what you're supposed to be doing then MP just becomes another boater out there, the only difference being they have a light bar and we don't. Golden rule, folks. Golden rule....