wind power

[Audiofn]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Winnidiver makes a good point about placing an oil rig in Winni and I can only say that exploration should be done in an enviromentally friendly way.Sure,we'd probably all give up our boats and toys.....but cars and trucks is another matter. Winnidiver thinks his Ford hybrid is the answer but studies show that they actually cost more energy to produce than a conventional vehicles.Their sole purpose on the planet is to make people feel good.Winni won't be laughing when it comes time to replace AND dispose of the battery pack.

I was the one with the Ford hybrid. I have heard your argument before about the batteries being expensive, mess for the land fills....but that is false. First of all they will be able to recycle the batteries. You can and should be taking your car batteries, computer batteries, and so on in for recycling. I had my computer batterie refurbished for pennies of what a new one from Dell was going to cost me. Secondly my Ford battery has a 8 year 150,000 mile warrantee on it. I will sell the car more then likely LONG before that date/milage ever comes. The car does work for me as evidence by the fact that I am saving almost 6-7,000 dollars a year on fuel. I have all the creature comforts of back up sensors, sat radiom, comfortable leather seats, GPS, you name it the car has it so I feel like I gave up nothing. The additional expense was offset in part by tax incentives. 12,000 miles on the car since I purchased in Feb. and I am super happy with it. Beleive me I was the BIGGEST sceptic going into the purchase, but I am a beleiver now. Certainly NOT a car that the average Joe can work on but I stopped that stuff a few years ago and only change my oil now days.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

I was the one with the Ford hybrid. I have heard your argument before about the batteries being expensive, mess for the land fills....but that is false. First of all they will be able to recycle the batteries. You can and should be taking your car batteries, computer batteries, and so on in for recycling. I had my computer batterie refurbished for pennies of what a new one from Dell was going to cost me. Secondly my Ford battery has a 8 year 150,000 mile warrantee on it. I will sell the car more then likely LONG before that date/milage ever comes. The car does work for me as evidence by the fact that I am saving almost 6-7,000 dollars a year on fuel. I have all the creature comforts of back up sensors, sat radiom, comfortable leather seats, GPS, you name it the car has it so I feel like I gave up nothing. The additional expense was offset in part by tax incentives. 12,000 miles on the car since I purchased in Feb. and I am super happy with it. Beleive me I was the BIGGEST sceptic going into the purchase, but I am a beleiver now. Certainly NOT a car that the average Joe can work on but I stopped that stuff a few years ago and only change my oil now days.

Wow, that is a LOT of savings!! How is that even possible...what kind of mileage are you getting?

[SAMIAM]

Sounds like you really did your homework before buying the car......I got my information from a series of newspaper and magazine stories but I can't argue with your reasoning and I will definately rethink my criticism of hybrids.
But...............I still like my SUV

[Boater]

Originally Posted by Audiofn

I have heard your argument before about the batteries being expensive, mess for the land fills....but that is false.

The production and recycling problems may be fixed in the future but right now the Hybrids are not as good a deal as they seem to be. The mileage may be slightly better than the most efficient gas-only cars but when you consider the "dust to dust" energy costs the overall energy costs per mile are much higher. Here are the energy costs per mile over the lifetime (dust to dust) of these vehicles:

Prius: $3.25/mile
Viper: $2.18/mile
Range Rover: $2.42/mile
Escalade: $2.75/mile
Scion: $.48/mile

These figures take into consideration the entire vehicle cycle from inception until disposal, not just the cost of ownership.

To produce a Hybrid battery nickle is mined at a controversial facility in Canada and shipped in huge container ships to a refinery in Europe. From there it is shipped to China to create nickle foam. Then it is shipped to Japan for assembly. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. The energy required for this process wipes out the small savings that the hybrid provides over the first 100,000 miles.

The bottom line is that a Scion or Aveo is much better for the environment right now than the feel-good cars embraced by the greenies. There isn't a single Hybrid in the top 10 list of efficient cars.