Governor will sign Speed Limit legislation

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by B R

The truth is she doesn't even come here often. She refuses to say how often but from previous posts, I'd bet she's paddled on this lake less than 10 times in her life. She simply wants the speed limit and that's it!!!

Here's the REAL TRUTH:

The truth is that I likely spend more time on the water than most people on this forum and I paddle more miles on NH lakes than most of you. The truth also is that I've had close calls every single time that I have paddled on winni - and that it is nearly impossible for me to find someone who is willing to paddle with me on the lake. I plan on paddling on winni a lot more often once the speed limit goes into effect.

Because of a serious injury and needing treatment for cancer this summer, and the numerous thunder storms, I have not been able to paddle as much this summer, but I have still managed to paddle over 250 miles on NH lakes so far.

You are also neglecting the fact that this bill was originally for all NH lakes, but that it has since become amended so that it now only affects winni. I'm still fighting for a speed limit for all NH lakes.

I simply want a speed limit because I have had too many close calls with high-speed powerboats - and I have seen the difference that a lake speed limit actually makes.

It is also the truth that I am a NH resident and a multi-generation native - which is not true of many of the speed limit opponents. Most NH residents also appear to support lake speed limits.

Originally Posted by Alton Bay Bob

As neither an opponent or proponent of speed limits and a fair paddler, I would never take you up on your offer to paddle the main lake either this year..with no speed limit ...or next year when there is a speed limit during a time when there was a lot of boat traffic.

I have to return to my University in just over a week, since my team has to be back on campus before the non-athletes return. So I probably won't be able to join you this summer, as there's just not time. But I would be happy to paddle with you next summer - just as soon as I graduate and return home.

[B R]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Here's the REAL TRUTH:

The truth is that I likely spend more time on the water than most people on this forum and I paddle more miles on NH lakes than most of you. The truth also is that I've had close calls every single time that I have paddled on winni - and that it is nearly impossible for me to find someone who is willing to paddle with me on the lake. I plan on paddling on winni a lot more often once the speed limit goes into effect.

Sorry you've been held up this summer.

Since the speed limit is ONLY for Lake Winnipesaukee, can you answer a simple question? How many times have you EVER paddled on Lake Winnipesaukee?

[SIKSUKR]

I'll bet "Randy" has only been on Winni less than a dozen times.

[Evenstar]

Originally Posted by B R

Sorry you've been held up this summer.

Since the speed limit is ONLY for Lake Winnipesaukee, can you answer a simple question? How many times have you EVER paddled on Lake Winnipesaukee?

Personally, THAT is none of your business! I actually have no idea at how many times I have paddled on Winni or on any other NH lake, since I don't keep track of such things. But I've paddled there more times than you have suggested - which you determined how exactly??? Since I've never given a number, how in the world did you come up with "less than 10 times"??? That was obviously just another lame attempt to discredit me.

Why do I have to constantly provide proof on this forum for my qualifications??? Others here like you simple throw out wild accusations and false statements, and then won't even respond when their "facts" are questioned. Yet when someone like me honestly tries to answer questions, their posts get ripped apart and they become a target. So how many hours do all the opponents here have on the lake in recent years???

There are Senators and Representatives who voted against the speed limit who don't even own a boat. And there are even move who have never even been on the lake.

The thing is that I have paddled on winni enough to know that high-speed boaters are dangerous to paddlers.

And I'm a NH resident (unlike many of the opponents here) - which I feel is actually more important. And I actually took the time to attend hearings and to testify. Plus I actually know most of the Senators and many of the Representatives - and I know the NH Legislative process better than most here, because I internered at the State House last year.

It really doesn't matter if I have paddled on winni 25 times or 1000 times - because I'm still one of the only people on this forum who has actually paddled across the broads and I've done that many times. So get off my case.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

- because I'm still one of the only people on this forum who has actually paddled across the broads and I've done that many times. So get off my case.

Hang on now...when I was younger I "paddled" across a broad or two and I......oh wait, you meant the lake, didn't you?

[B R]

Actually, i do think it is my business. you are one of the few very vocal proponents of the law and it's my guess you don't even come here; or have on a very few occasions.

you said yourself you have paddled 250 miles on NH lakes. why then do you have to push your agenda on a lake you don't even visit very often?

a few years ago, there were some posters coming from the OSO forum who got shot down because they didn't boat often enough for the proponents of the law. I'd like to use their argument to say you shouldn't have a say in this fight since you don't even boat here regularly. I think it is a relevant question and one you have refused to answer. You not having an answer should be answer enough for most of us.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by B R

Actually, i do think it is my business. you are one of the few very vocal proponents of the law and it's my guess you don't even come here; or have on a very few occasions.

you said yourself you have paddled 250 miles on NH lakes. why then do you have to push your agenda on a lake you don't even visit very often?

a few years ago, there were some posters coming from the OSO forum who got shot down because they didn't boat often enough for the proponents of the law. I'd like to use their argument to say you shouldn't have a say in this fight since you don't even boat here regularly. I think it is a relevant question and one you have refused to answer. You not having an answer should be answer enough for most of us.

B R

Evenstar has a lot more right to say what happens to the lake than you do.

You have indicated you are not a New Hampshire citizen. Evenstar claims she is a New Hampshire citizen.

The citizens of New Hampshire OWN Lake Winnipesaukee. Therefore it would seem Evenstar owns the lake and you do not.

Control of the lake is in the hands of the citizens of New Hampshire, not visitors. This is true even if those visitors own property and pay taxes.

As I remember those OSO members were from out of state.

[B R]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

So how many hours do all the opponents here have on the lake in recent years???

I've averaged 150 hours logged on my boat per year over the past 7 years (does not include hours under anchor). hitting 220 hours one year and as low as 100 hours two years ago. 90 hours so far this year (gas prices).

I have come up every single weekend since mid-june with a few weekends before that.

See, that wasn't so hard.

[B R]

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1709 post 36 you wrote:


Why just Winni?
I'm just wondering why Lake Winnipesaukee is being singled out for a bill to impose a limit on speed. Why not a state speed limit for all lakes? After all, aren't high speeds likely to be even more dangerous on smaller lakes?

I haven't kayaked on Winni yet, but I have been on other NH lakes enough to comment on high speeds. Yes, I have felt very unsafe at times, wondering if that speeding boat even sees me. In a sit in kayak, you actually sit below the water line and your top speed is maybe 5 MPH.

While kayaking on Squam last summer, my friend and I were both swamped by a speeding boat that passed within 40 feet of us and never even slowed down. So enforcement of current boating regulations seems to be the bigger issue here.
__________________
"Boaters love boats . . . Kayakers love water."


So, on April 2005 you state you've never boated on winni. And because of circumstances not under your control, you haven't paddled on winni this year. so that leaves 05, 06, 07 and 08. I just have a gut feeling you haven't boated on the lake more than 10 times. it can't be that hard to remember since you've had SO many close calls on the lake. if that were me, I think i'd remember all those life threatening times spent on the lake.

[chase1]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Personally, THAT is none of your business! I actually have no idea at how many times I have paddled on Winni or on any other NH lake, since I don't keep track of such things.

Evenstar,

Boaters ofter discuss how much time they spend on the water in conversation. Kind of like the way salesmen point out how many miles they drive or fly.

I like you can not provide any detail as to my excursions and time spent paddling. Although I think (not confirmed in any way) the same would be true for the majority of power boaters most power boats have hr meters, so at the very least owners know how many hrs were spent underway.

I was under the impression that you kept a Juornal or Log.

Chase1

[COWISLAND NH]

And I'm a NH resident (unlike many of the opponents here) - which I feel is actually more important. And I actually took the time to attend hearings and to testify. Plus I actually know most of the Senators and many of the Representatives - and I know the NH Legislative process better than most here, because I internered at the State House last year.

Like my parents said it's who ya know.....now we all know who was whining about all the dangerous boats on the lake to all those reps. What we really need to ask is how many of those people who voted acually have been on the lake and had such scary experiences.....or have they just heard the scary speed boat stories from a small "in" house group!

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by COWISLAND NH

Like my parents said it's who ya know.....now we all know who was whining about all the dangerous boats on the lake to all those reps. What we really need to ask is how many of those people who voted acually have been on the lake and had such scary experiences.....or have they just heard the scary speed boat stories from a small "in" house group! [/COLOR][/COLOR]

yeah right...like no one who was against the speed limit was there, like the big GFBL lobby and NHRBA(with their $) all saying:" there's no speed problem, we just need to enforce existing laws". Get real.

[Islander]

BroadHopper has asked Skip for clarification. i wonder why he has not responded. He can end the argument.

You out there Skip?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Islander

BroadHopper has asked Skip for clarification. i wonder why he has not responded. He can end the argument.

You out there Skip?

Actually, the only thing I can say to end any of the arguments here is simple:

....Don, please suspend the speed limit threads indefinitely....

It's over.

The Governor has signed the bill and it becomes law next year.

Everyone has two years to review the bill and make their voices heard at the appropriate time when the bill gets set to expire several years from now.

Don has been extremely fair in allowing both sides great latitude in airing their respective opinions during the lengthy time this subject has been before the public.

He has also been extremely lenient in letting a handful of individuals on both sides of the issue beat this issue to death.

But it is time to put this issue behind us and move on!

In the many years I have been fortunate to be a guest of Don's, I have seen and participated in many spirited debates. But in most cases those debates were short lived, and except for the occasional troll or drum beater, everyone picked up the pieces and quickly moved on to other issues...usually issues of common interest that strengthend this great website and didn't tear it apart.

Yeah, I know....if I don't like it just ignore it.

But I happen to care very deeply about this site and many of the regular folks that have populated these threads for years. And, this is strictly my opinion, I think a number of the great folks that regularly posted here are tired of the animosity, tired of the speed limit debate popping up all over the place, and just generally tired of the negativity this particular debate has generated.

Listen, some of you drum beaters are obviously very technically savvy when it comes to the internet. And some of you obviously have the time. I beg any one of you, on either side of the issue, to start your own website devoted solely to this debate. Move it away from here and let this site return to some semblance of calm, a signature that made this site the great place that it still is.

I'll say it one last time....it is long past time that we all (myself included) move on!

Thank you.....

Skip

[Bear Islander]

Skip

I agree with much of what you say. However I believe in leaving those decisions to the webmaster. Since he has not closed the forum I can only conclude he wants it open. I also assume that as long as it is open I am free to post.

I would gladly set up a separate site for this discussion. But who would want me as webmaster?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

Skip

I agree with much of what you say. However I believe in leaving those decisions to the webmaster. Since he has not closed the forum I can only conclude he wants it open. I also assume that as long as it is open I am free to post.

I would gladly set up a separate site for this discussion. But who would want me as webmaster?

I think you will see by his sticky that he wants to close this sub forum. It is a shame that some people on this forum have raised the vitriol to an absurd level- both proponents and opponents.

Please read your posts prior to hitting submit and ask yourself if you would "say" the same thing in person that you would when posting anonomously online.

Have a good day,

John

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Evenstar

This law is based on safely and on the common sense. Powerboaters who feel that it is their "right" to travel at unlimited speeds on the lake has made winni dangerous for other boaters. It is as simple as that. There is no conspiracy.

No, it’s based on the fact that a handful of people want to rid the lake of performance boats!! If it was based on common sense, there wouldn’t BE a speed limit. BUT, not everyone uses common sense, and, as we all know, YOU CAN’T LEGISLATE COMMON SENSE! If people are that fearful, perhaps they don’t belong on the lake.

As for a conspiracy, after reading all these posts for and against a speed limit, I believe there is one; it’s a movement by some shorefront property owners to get boats they don’t like off their lake. BI, as one of those property owners, has admitted he wants to rid the lake of performance boats. So, first, it’ll be the performance boats to disappear, then it’ll be the cabin cruisers, then the bass boats and finally, it’ll be anyone who doesn’t own shorefront property. Then the property owners will have their lake to themselves, kind of like what’s happened to Squam Lake.

BI, you said in your post #324 that “The citizens of New Hampshire OWN Lake Winnipesaukee.” Interesting coming from you since you’re not a citizen of NH, but you DO have a lot of money to blow on island property, boats, cars, camping trips to Antarctica and sub-orbital spaceflights! Well, I AM a citizen, born and raised here as were my parents. Unfortunately, I do not own shorefront property on the lake because it’s too expensive; wealthy people like you have priced average citizens like me out of the market. However, it’s beginning to look to me like a small group of people (both NH and out-of-state citizens) want full control of the lake to themselves. If we truly believe that ALL CITIZENS of NH own the lake, then that small group of shorefront property owners should not be allowed to have laws passed that ban other citizens from using the lake just because they choose to enjoy a different style of boating. Since your citizenship is Massachusetts, I believe you should have no say in the control of the lake.

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Traveling at unlimited speeds on a lake is not an inalienable right. You do not have the right to pursue your own happiness when your actions violate the rights of others. That would be anarchy.

You claim you have the right to kayak ANYWHERE on the lake yet you fear being run over by a powerboat so you push for a speed limit to “make the lake safer”. At what point does your right to kayak anywhere interfere with my rights to enjoy my powerboat at speed?!? Bicycles are not allowed on the interstate highways for a reason; they’re a slow-moving vehicle in close proximity to fast-moving vehicles. This is the same as a kayak or canoe in a wide open area on the main lake where powerboats could be travelling at higher speeds. Instead of a speed limit, maybe it’s time slow-moving watercraft were restricted from certain parts of the main lake (like bicycles from the interstate)!!

I have no problem with people pursuing an activity they enjoy so long as they are willing to accept the risks associated with it. It annoys me when someone wants to do something but they don’t want to accept the risks involved with that activity (fearing something will happen to them) so they lobby for a law in an attempt to make it safer for them. Afraid the parachute won’t open? DON’T GO PARACHUTING!!! Are you a kayaker that fears being run over by a powerboat (ANY powerboat)?? Then don't go in areas frequented by powerboats! People that are afraid to fly, don’t fly unless it’s absolutely necessary (and then they’re a nervous wreck the entire time they’re in the air)! People that are afraid of driving at speed should avoid the interstate highways (but they don't) because they’re only going to cause a traffic jam travelling 35mph in a 65mph zone (when the minimum limit on the interstate is 45mph!)

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Months ago I challenged anyone here to join me kayaking on the main lake - yet no one has had the courage to accept my challenge. Yet you all continue to dismiss my close calls on the lake as "unfounded" - put a paddle where your mouth is - and then perhaps you'll understand the danger.

You are putting assumptions upon your statement. The FACT is that no one has taken you up on your challenge. The reasons are not yours to assume or postulate without proof. You seem to do this a lot. As far as I’m concerned, taking you up on your “challenge” has nothing to do with courage so stop carrying on about how no one has the “courage” to go with you. For me, physical activity, (including kayaking), does not interest me at this point in my life (much to my physician’s chagrin) so you will not see me in a kayak. If I did happen to kayak, I’d be more than happy to go with you but I’m sure I wouldn’t be able to keep up with you since we all know how fit and healthy you are and I’m not. Besides, I thought the whole idea behind the “challenge” was to see who had the cojones to go out kayaking with you, not who was stronger and faster! As for your close calls, I don’t question that you’ve had them (I’ve had a few myself and I’m in a 25’ powerboat). I only question your estimates of speed and distance but since I wasn’t with you when any of them happened, I can’t say your estimates are right or wrong on their speed or distance from you at the time. And finally, if YOU have so much courage, why push for a speed limit? Just go out kayaking and get your thrills. If you love kayaking in open water where there’s a possibility of you being run over by a powerboat (like in The Broads), THAT’S the risk YOU have to assume!!

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Most of the member of the Legislature who voted for the bill were doing so base on what this NH law states and because of the testimony of residents. That is their job.

I didn’t know laws were also being voted on based on FEAR. That's not what this country was built on.

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Now you're judging all kayakers on the actions of a few inexperienced recreational kayakers. That would be like me judging all powerboaters on the actions of one "captain bonehead."

But that’s EXACTLY what you’re doing; you’re pushing for a speed limit based on the actions of a handful of bonehead boaters (well, perhaps more than a handful)!!!


With apologies to Martin Niemoller for taking liberties with his quote:

"First they came for the Performance Boaters but I was not a Performance Boater so I did not speak out;
Then they came for the Cabin Cruisers but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out;
Then they came for the Bass Boaters but I was not a fisherman so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."