Major Bonehead

jrc · 08-18-2008, 08:33 AM

Since we are talking about people swiming in th channel, I have to tell about a heart stopper on Sunday in the Weirs Channel. I was leaving Paugus Bay just passing the cabins approaching the partially collapsed docks opposite Thurstons gas docks. A man is standing on those docks in a bathing suit. As I slow he jumps into the channel, I thought he was going to swim to Thurstons but he doesn't, he turns left an swims down the side of the channel, he has less than 5 feet from my boat.

I hit neutral just so my props would stop for a few seconds as he went by. I guess he was relatively safe but it scared the Ship out of me.

Kamper · 08-18-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

... I hit neutral just so my props would stop for a few seconds as he went by. ...

I cant say for sure about I/O, but on an outboard motor the props are always turning even at idle. Just FYI.

I don't think there was anything else you could have done in that tight spot. It goes to show not all Boneheads need boats!

rickstr66 · 08-18-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

I cant say for sure about I/O, but on an outboard motor the props are always turning even at idle. Just FYI.

This is not true, at least on my outboard, a 1997 evinrude. When I put it in neutral, the prop stops moving, otherwise it would not be neutral and I would move either forward or backwards

Kamper · 08-18-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickstr66

... on my outboard, a 1997 evinrude. When I put it in neutral, the prop stops moving, ...

I've had a couple of my own and helped a few others work on theirs. Test run on muffs, I have visually observed the props rotating on all of them. I have watched while somebody used a board to stop one to make sure it wasn't in gear (not my idea!) and it stopped. You can observe the same thing in many cars if you put the drive wheels in the air.

Not enough energy is transferred to move the boat but the momentum in the prop will likley cause a serious injury if it comes in contact with flesh.

I am glad if your motor design has that safety feature but if you have reached this conclusion just because your boat does not move in idle you might want to check it sometime. For safety sake, it is a good idea to always turn a motor -off- when people are near the stern.

gtxrider · 08-18-2008, 12:05 PM

The Capt. does not always use a power boat. Last week I was heading up Alton Bay approaching Echo Point as the Mount was appearing. Right smack in the middle of the the bay was a group of 6-7 kayaks. Good luck the MP was around and went out and advised the paddlers of the danger of playing chicken with the Mount

. I just watched and laughed to myself. I guess that it is not just the GFBL boats that aim for kayakers.

Airwaves · 08-18-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Posted by APS
The prototype I'm modeling here has three disposable CDs attached to an old hat. However, just one CD in front is best, as it is really a powerful mirror used to reflect the sun.

Very clever and funny. Yep that should work very nicely. You know me there is alway a HOWEVER lurking just around the corner.

It could be misidentified as use of a daytime VDS. Mirrors are commonly used as daytime VDS so your prototype could end up getting you in trouble with the law.

If it is thought by boaters to be a VDS it might also have the reverse effect of actually attracting boats to you!

ApS · 08-21-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...It [Powerboat Excluder Device, or P.E.D.] could be misidentified as use of a daytime VDS. Mirrors are commonly used as daytime VDS so your prototype could end up getting you in trouble with the law..."

If it is thought by boaters to be a VDS it might also have the reverse effect of actually attracting boats to you!

It's no longer a prototype: I wear it (and use it) every sunny day on the water. As I mentioned earlier, with the recent advent of "running the plotter", I seem to have a sign on my sail that reads, "Free Beer".

When I did try to summon the MP on a routine matter/violation, it got ignored. (So I'm not too worried).

Aug 25th...Edited to add:
On a routine matter, I succeeded in summoning an MP last week with the signal-mirror/CD. It was a very pleasant younger officer in boat 67, IIRC. (Single outboard MP boat that seems to be in the area most often.) He caught my brief signal right away, and commented favorably on the device.

Sept 8th...Edited to add:
On a second routine matter, I succeeded in summoning an MP last week with the CD/signal-mirror. It was an officer in his 30's in boat MP9. (One of at least two inboards, MP7 being another.) Again, this officer caught my brief signal right away, and commented favorably on the device.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

"...Very clever and funny. Yep that should work very nicely..."

Aiming it takes some practice, but its effect is astonishing and gratifying. One PED should be in the possession of every Winnipesaukee sailor and sea-kayaker.

The CD is subject to casual breakage and doesn't float, so I carry a spare PED in my PFD pocket. One is pop-riveted to each underside of pop-out inspection ports—just in case.

As to riding the bow or stern, here's a "regular" in my neighborhood, who shuttles kids between two families every weekend, if not every day.

(Boston Whaler with kids' legs dangling overboard at the bow...Fibers added by www.Snapfish.com. Horizon-alignment, sharpness and underexposure by APS...)

jrc · 08-18-2008, 12:41 PM

I've seen boat motors on muffs and sometimes the prop will turn while in neutral. I don't think there is any force while that is happening, but I don't want to find out.

In this case there wasn't much I could do, he wasn't that close to the props or I would have shut down. Short of that I was just trying to do what I could to not escalate the situation. If I shut down my engines, things would have got messy in a real hurry. There was a good strong current in the channel this weekend.

Why don't I "just say no" to the channel. I really don't have to go to Paugus Bay, there is plenty of other lake out there.

Dave R · 08-18-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

I've seen boat motors on muffs and sometimes the prop will turn while in neutral. I don't think there is any force while that is happening, but I don't want to find out.

In this case there wasn't much I could do, he wasn't that close to the props or I would have shut down. Short of that I was just trying to do what I could to not escalate the situation. If I shut down my engines, things would have got messy in a real hurry. There was a good strong current in the channel this weekend.

Why don't I "just say no" to the channel. I really don't have to go to Paugus Bay, there is plenty of other lake out there.

I am pretty sure the prop spinning in neutral is only something you'd see on drives with shift dogs, such as you'd find on most outboards and all Mercruiser Alpha drives. The shift dogs spin on the driven shaft while the engine is running and get the oil moving. The moving oil hits the nearby shift dogs on the propeller shaft and imparts a little energy on them, making them spin the prop shaft slowly. The speed of the prop would likely be proportional to the viscosity of the gear oil and the speed of the engine. Hot and/or well-used gear oil will spin less than cold and/or brand new oil.

Motorcycle transmissions also use shift dogs and do exactly the same thing, if the rear wheel is off the ground. Since they use the engine oil in the transmission, the effect is dramatically reduced if the engine is hot.

MJM · 08-18-2008, 02:55 PM

I've never heard of a prop that rotates while in Neutral. (I have lots of experience with outboards and I/O, none with inboards.)

Maybe moving just due to the vibration of the motor, but not engaged in a gear, or having any force behind it that could cause harm.

Audiofn · 08-19-2008, 07:40 AM

On the topic of the prop. spinning. The prop will spin a little bit on the trailer but there is a enough resistance that the water will stop it from spinning. Some times it will spin but very slowly.

Now if you are ever on a boat and some one falls in the water in front of you and you do not have enough time to manuver what you need to do it stop the motor and put it in reverse. If you leave it in forward or nutral the forward momentum of the boat will keep the prop spinning even with the motor off. If you put it in reverse the cogs in the lower unit will stop the prop from spinning. If you have a transmision all you can do is turn off the motor.

08-18-2008, 12:05 PM	#5
gtxrider Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Piscataway, NJ Posts: 1,030 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 24 Posts	Capt. Boneheads in KAYAKS The Capt. does not always use a power boat. Last week I was heading up Alton Bay approaching Echo Point as the Mount was appearing. Right smack in the middle of the the bay was a group of 6-7 kayaks. Good luck the MP was around and went out and advised the paddlers of the danger of playing chicken with the Mount. I just watched and laughed to myself. I guess that it is not just the GFBL boats that aim for kayakers.

08-18-2008, 08:33 AM	#1
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	Since we are talking about people swiming in th channel, I have to tell about a heart stopper on Sunday in the Weirs Channel. I was leaving Paugus Bay just passing the cabins approaching the partially collapsed docks opposite Thurstons gas docks. A man is standing on those docks in a bathing suit. As I slow he jumps into the channel, I thought he was going to swim to Thurstons but he doesn't, he turns left an swims down the side of the channel, he has less than 5 feet from my boat. I hit neutral just so my props would stop for a few seconds as he went by. I guess he was relatively safe but it scared the Ship out of me.

08-18-2008, 12:41 PM	#8
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	I've seen boat motors on muffs and sometimes the prop will turn while in neutral. I don't think there is any force while that is happening, but I don't want to find out. In this case there wasn't much I could do, he wasn't that close to the props or I would have shut down. Short of that I was just trying to do what I could to not escalate the situation. If I shut down my engines, things would have got messy in a real hurry. There was a good strong current in the channel this weekend. Why don't I "just say no" to the channel. I really don't have to go to Paugus Bay, there is plenty of other lake out there.

08-18-2008, 02:55 PM	#10
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	I've never heard of a prop that rotates while in Neutral. (I have lots of experience with outboards and I/O, none with inboards.) Maybe moving just due to the vibration of the motor, but not engaged in a gear, or having any force behind it that could cause harm.

08-19-2008, 07:40 AM	#11
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	On the topic of the prop. spinning. The prop will spin a little bit on the trailer but there is a enough resistance that the water will stop it from spinning. Some times it will spin but very slowly. Now if you are ever on a boat and some one falls in the water in front of you and you do not have enough time to manuver what you need to do it stop the motor and put it in reverse. If you leave it in forward or nutral the forward momentum of the boat will keep the prop spinning even with the motor off. If you put it in reverse the cogs in the lower unit will stop the prop from spinning. If you have a transmision all you can do is turn off the motor.