40 MPH...Straight into The Witches!

[sa meredith]

So here's a story I'm posting simply because it could possibly serve as a reminder to someone to never become too comfortable while boating and thinking, "...oh, that could never happen to me"...because yesterday, it happened to me, and I'm still shaken up pretty good today.

I consider my knowledge of the lake to be average to good in many areas, and in others (Paugus Bay, Weirs, Meredith, out past Governors into Wolfeboro, Winter Harbor) very good. It's my 5th year of boating (very new, I know) and I spent my first two seasons reading the chart the night before going out, planning my course, and then when boating, being sure to find every marker that I had indeed seen on the chart. It was tedious at first, but I learned the lake, and how to find places I had never been to. No GPS. I did it all the old fashioned way...and think I am better for having done it like this.
I took the safe boating course, learned everything I could, and take safety as seriously as anyone I know. I don't think anyone could ever accuse me of being an unsafe or irresponsible boater.
Also, when starting out, I frequently when along with my brother in law and sister (boaters for 10 years) and asked them as many questions as I could, and learned something new everytime we went out. I should mention the boat is a 24' bowrider...so not too big, but by no means small.
On one of my first trips around Governors, my sister introduced me to The Witches, pointed out the circle of markers, and assured me that they can creep up on you very quickly when approaching them from the broads. She further explained that the center part (the rocks that are always visible) are not the only rocks, there are also a great number of them lurking inches below the surface. I believe her words were somehing like "just make sure you never enter the circle. You won't come out."
And so when travelling that way, in the beginning, I was always very intimidated by the area...always remembering when heading out to the broads to pass between the two navigational buoys (the route The Mount travels). And I would always slow down, giving the rocks a good look, many times seeing several of the below surface lurkers, and think there was just no way I would ever end up in there.
Soooooooooooooo.....flash forward to yesterday afternoon, 4:15 PM, in case you were out there and saw me. After spending the day with a good friend, his wife, and two children, who are vacationing in Wolfeboro, I was heading back to Paugus Bay, alone. It had been a very long day in the sun....hours and hours of tubing in Winter Harbor, swimming and lunch in Johnson's Cove. Just a perfect day...great weather, and quality time with good friends.
If I may digress for one second here...his family has very little if any experience boating...so being safety conscious, they all received a crash course in safety before we left the Wolfeboro docks...where their own pfd was located (the boy was 12, so he was wearing his), what to do in an emergency, how to get another boats attention if I somehow became unconscious...stuff like that. I write this to further make the point that I do indeed put safety first.
So I have dropped them off at 3:15/3:30, and am now alone, heading back.
I always go the same way home. Out toward Rattlesnake, then take a heading on Locke's, find the black marker out on the point at Locke's, and turn slightly left. This brings you safely around the Witches (they are now on the right), and brings me straight to the Governors Island bridge, and up thru the no wake zone after the bridge.
I decided, at the very last minute, to make a small change to my course yesterday, and it could have been tragic. After passing the marker at Locke's (and I should mention, by the way, the radio is cranking, the sun is shining, and I really have that "life is good" feeling) I think to myself..."how about passing Governor's on the other side (the side I take when heading out) today, and passing on the whole no wake zone after the bridge...maybe save a minute or 2. I know I am travelling at 40 MPH because I am watching my gauges, in awe of how much gas I had gone thru for the day. I stayed at 40 just about the whole way across the broads.
So, I decide to change course, but never decrease my speed, and just assume I have not yet reached "the circle" of markers. There is a small chop, so viewing markers (or rocks) from a distance is not very easy at this point.
But, I know I need to bear hard to the right, and find the two navigational bouys to pass thru...no need to let off the throttle...I know the way. So I spot the Bouy (or so I think) and head straight for it, thinking the other is just not readily visible because of the chop. But now I'm approaching the Navigational buoy very rapidly, and just can't see the other one....and suddenly realize, at 40MPH, the bouy I am approaching has a word on it...."Warning, Rocks"....I'm in the circle, heading full bore into the main part of the Witches...where the rocks are always above the surface...and I am fully aware I am passing over rocks just beneath the surface. I throw into neutral, then reverse after a second or 2, as I need the the boat to come to a stop, NOW! The boat comes to rest, as the "above water rocks" are on my starboard side...no less than 10 feet from the boat...I kill the engine and trim it up as far as possible. And now there is silence (obviously, there are no other boats near me). I can hear nothing, except for the water lapping on the rocks. The noise is continuous...splish splash, splish splash. I am in a state of complete shock...frozen from head to toe. Can't move. (I would imagine it was the type of fear you would feel if you woke in the middle of the night, and found a stanger in your home...just plain shock). Honestly. I'm standing there, grabbing the wheel "white knuckled", and just can't move...frozen solid. I finally loosen my grip, lean over the side, and vomit. It was just an involuntary reaction. I guess it was my body reacting to my state of shock.
So, what to do??? No paddle of any type on board (there is one now, and always will be) so I can only get out by refiring the engine. Now, for anyone that might be curious...take my word for it...there are rocks EVERYWHERE beneath the surface. Some 2 feet, some 6 inches. Of course, as I am "taking inventory" they all look to be 1 inch below, ready to jump into the boat.
I'm looking around in circles, and for that moment, the Witches of Lake Winni is simply the loneliest place on earth...I am so alone.
I refired the boat, trimmed down just a tad, heading back toward the broads, 1 foot at a time. Forward for 2 seconds, neutral, reverse (to stop the boat), jump up into the bow to check for rocks, forward for 2 seconds, neutral, reverse, up into the bow, forward, neutral, reverse, up into the bow...over and over again, dodging rock after rock (many were well below the surface, but at that point, I was pretty freaked out, so I did not want to go over any).
The whole event, fom enter to exiting was probably 13/15 minutes, but seemed like hours. The feeling was like no other I have felt. I was just so sure I knew exactly where I was going. I think that is what led to the shock.
It was not like I saw a marker out on the lake, and passed it on the wrong side accidentally. I was just so sure I knew just where I was.
Now, I'm not sure I am even qualified to have passengers...should they trust me? What an experience...never again!
So if you see me, call me "Captain Bonehead!"

[Cristen]

WOW...what a freaky situation you were in. Glad you made it out OK!

My Grampy actually hit the witches back in the 1960's. He had a big cruiser of a boat and was hitting the bottle pretty good that day from what my dad tells me....

[jmarshall753]

Pull up the motor and take your ancor and throw it out let it bite and pull yourself out.

[Dave R]

Yikes!

All I can say is I learned the same way you did, without GPS, and later got one just becuase I always wanted one. It makes mistakes like yours much harder to make and I highly recommend having a nice chartplotter with a Bizer chip on board, turned on, and consulted all the time. It should not replace the paper chart (I still always carry two of those), nor should it ever allow you to become complacent about your visual verification of spars. I still make it a point to get a visual on every spar I pass (if they are there, for instance, there's a black one missing at Mile Island).

[Woodsy]

WOW...

You are absolutely lucky the lake is pretty full.... usually when you let off the throttle on the wrong side of a marker you hear a VERY LOUD BANG as the boat settles in the water...

The best course of action when on the wrong side of a marker is to keep going and get back to the correct side (deep water) ASAP... a boat on plane draws alot less water than a boat at idle....

Glad you, your boat and your wallet all came out unscathed!


Woodsy

[parrothead]

The witches are no place to be. I always take extra care when going to that area too, especially with the high water level. They are not quite so obvious. Glad you and the boat came out unscathed.

[jrc]

One seemingly minor course change and you're in the middle of hell. You made the right moves once you realized where you were, stop. Seems like a pretty rational approach to get out, move slow and look before you leap. The Witches have held fear and awe for me since my first days on the lake. I actually envy you, I've always wanted to see them up close.

The Witches are a lot bigger that people think. See this photo. I honked at some one heading directly for them on Sunday. They stopped at the Danger marker. I've seen people traverse gap between the northern piles and the southern one. I'm not sure if it was intentional.

http://maps.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEx...400989&zoom=16

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by jrc

The Witches have held fear and awe for me since my first days on the lake. I actually envy you, I've always wanted to see them up close.

JRC...
You put this into words perfectly. I have always "feared" them, and certainly been in "awe" of them. It's almost like they hold some type of hypnotic power over boaters. I just can't drive by...EVER...without tensing up a bit. You think..."MY God, the dreaded Witches". Which, I believe, is why I froze and actually became ill. It was like a child encoutering his worst fear. Be it bats, the dark, spiders, or the boggy man (also, remember when Harrison Ford encountered snakes in "Raiders of the Lost Ark"?) . Anywhere else in the lake, when I have become slightly disoriented, or thought I might have some trouble, I have never froze...or gone into a state of panic.
But being in the Witches????? It was like a 6 year old being introduced to the boggy man.
As for envying me, and seeing them close up...Looking back, I guess I remember it being an awesome sight...floating above this huge rock formation....I think...it's tough to remember it in a positive way. It looked like large, large green clumps under the water, just waiting to swallow me whole.

[kthy66]

Wow.. and no pictures!?? Sheesh!
next time take the camera!

[Dave R]

I've always wanted to snorkel in the witches and the middle ground shoal. Anybody tried? Seems like waves might be a problem...

I snorkeled around the Varney Islands and the Beaver Islands last year. Pretty neat and nicely sheltered.

[VtSteve]

I was relieved to see the ending was much better than I first thought At 40 mph, hitting them would probably have sent you through or over the windshield. Years ago, I would only pass them two ways, way left heading towards the Broads, and way right along Governor's island. It took me awhile to get used to navigating around them.

It's a rocky lake for sure. Glad it worked out well. Yet another boater that has seen the white light of the Witches.

[webmaster]

I knew we should have put up that lighthouse .

http://www.winnipesaukeeforum.com/ar...cgi?read=22396

[jeffk]

I had a similar experience a few years after we started boating on the lake. I knew The Witches were coming up, looked for and found the buoy and adjusted my course to keep me clear. But it didn't look right. The next marker wasn't where I thought it should be. At the last second I powered down to take a better look. I then realized I was out of position from where I had thought I was and if I had continued I would have entered the ring. I am always exceedingly cautious in that area now and double check my GPS position (did not have GPS then). The almost was close enough an experience for me. I'm glad you made it out safe (shaken but not stirred?).

[sa meredith]

Well, maybe not a lighthouse, but as I replayed this event in head over and over again last night, while trying to sleep, it did occur to me that, although everyone should know that the Witches are there, and I have noone to blame but myself, they really could be marked a bit better. I was thinking something similar to a "fairway flag" (for anyone that golfs). Simply a white or balck flag on a thin pole 8 to 10 feet in the air. Certainly not an eye sore, as it would be barely visible from land, but anyone who knows they are approaching, could seek out the flag, and set the correct course. Just a thought. It would not be of any help to me...I can promise you, I'll never be in there agian.

[chipj29]

Great story, about how fast things can come up on you, especially when you are not where you think you are. I have to admit, one part of your story made me laugh...yes, it was the puking part. Sorry, but

My bro in law and I were on my PWC up in Saco Maine one day a few years ago. It was very foggy from the boat ramp in the harbor, out to just off shore. We went out anticipating the fog to break. It did eventually break. Anyway, as we were heading up the channel to go out past the marker, we were following a few other boats. The fog was very thick, so I followed a fishing boat as best as I could safely. Little did I know I was drifting a bit to my left. My bro in law sitting behind just starts yelling rocks! rocks! Sure enough, we were about 20' from the breakwater. Too close for comfort, that's for sure. I definately thought we were a lot further from the rocks than that!

[DC Pointer]

SA, don't be so hard on yourself. Seems like you make all the right decisions and moves. There is a reason why you came away unscathed. You're a smart boater that found himself in a tight situation. You dealt with it. It has happened to everyone. I have been boating my whole life, I hold a 100 ton and 6 pack license. All kinds of experience, thousands and thousands of days on the water commercially and recreationally. Sea, Lake, Rivers etc. All over New England and Florida. I have been in multiple situations. Multiple! No one is perfect. We all make mistakes. It is realizing when a mistake is being made and being cognizant enough to back yourself out (no pun intended). Bravo for you. You are a safe boater and I would ride with you anytime. You are now stronger and more skilled. The water is to be respected and no one is immune to its fury.

[SteveA]

Puking aside.. ( and I laughed at that too)

"hours and hours of tubing in Winter Harbor", $30 of Gas

"swimming and lunch in Johnson's Cove" $60 (easy)

Surviving the Witches .................. Priceless

I decided once to go between Stonedam and Pitchwood instead of AROUND Pitchwood coming out of Sallys Gut. Ding... new prop $65. I also had folks on board that I was bragging to about how well I knew Winni...

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

So here's a story I'm posting simply because it could possibly serve as a reminder to someone to never become too comfortable while boating and thinking, "...oh, that could never happen to me"...because yesterday, it happened to me, and I'm still shaken up pretty good today.

So, what to do??? No paddle of any type on board (there is one now, and always will be)...

Once upon a time, a paddle was part of the required equipment list, even for the Mount - one was produced during the shakedown/inspection cruise.

Happy to read the ending was better than originally thought...

[momof3]

Glad to hear you are safe! I also always look for the black marker at Locke, once I missed it and ALMOST ended up in the dreaded circle! I was very nervous and wasn't even in the circle. Can't inagine the feeling.
I also feel that there should be more markers or something around that area just becasue it is so dangerous.

[Merrymeeting]

I commend you on your willingness to post your learnings for all to similarly learn from.

I was a bit surprised to hear that you didn't already have a paddle. I thought that was a required part of safety gear.

One other addition I might suggest is a boat hook. If you had one you could have used it as a pushing device to guide the boat around the rocks.

Again, thanks for sharing. One of these days I'll post my similar Capt. Bonehead about getting lost in the fog on Sat night/Sunday morning.

[MAXUM]

You certainly lucked out, and I think if that ever happened to me I'd probably loose my lunch too. If anything it serves as a reminder that there are many hazards out there and all it takes is a small mistake and you're in BIG trouble no matter how experienced you are. Thankfully you made it out without any damage. I hear the graveyard is just as nasty.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by kthy66

Wow.. and no pictures!?? Sheesh!
next time take the camera!

You know, I had my cell phone, and could have taken pictures with it. But after I wiped the vomit from my chin and shirt, gathered my thoughts as best I could, and took a very thorough inventory of my immediate surroundings, my brain was pretty "locked and loaded" on the task at hand and what had to take place to accomplish it. Very, very focused. The thought of, "hey, wait, maybe I should grab a few photos" never enter my head.
Although I must say, seriously, it was a unique opportunity to grab some great shots. And would have been a nice addition to the story.

[Lakegeezer]

Thanks for sharing your story. It is a good read! We all have our captain bonehead moments. I'm glad luck with with you when it was your turn.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by SteveA

Puking aside.. ( and I laughed at that too)

"hours and hours of tubing in Winter Harbor", $30 of Gas

"swimming and lunch in Johnson's Cove" $60 (easy)

Surviving the Witches .................. Priceless

I decided once to go between Stonedam and Pitchwood instead of AROUND Pitchwood coming out of Sallys Gut. Ding... new prop $65. I also had folks on board that I was bragging to about how well I knew Winni...

While I can close my eyes and steer a boat blind through Pitchwood and Stonedam, I better open them and realize I need to slow down and review my old memory.

My scariest night ever was over here this year. I was heading back through some fog that had unexpectedly settled over the lake. Moonless night, which I hardly ever do. This is the main route I'm comfortable with. But after awhile, it occurred to me that I wasn't heading for the pass home, I was actually heading for some summer camps on the beach

Of course, I was not on plane, I had slowed "to enjoy the night air" as I told the GF. In reality, I knew something was amiss. I'm painfully cautious even in known waters, which seems to have worked well. I want to maintain my safety record of no accidents, and not a single rock or sandbar hit in over forty years.

I took the NH boating course online today, took the practice course three times. I learned something new everytime. It never ends.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by VtSteve

While I can close my eyes and steer a boat blind through Pitchwood and Stonedam, I better open them and realize I need to slow down and review my old memory. {snip}

I have to have my eyes open when I do the zig-zag around Pitchwood and Stonedam but I guess I'd close them if I were to try to steer a boat through them ... You've got one uber strong lower unit by my reckoning !

I can't say I've ever had the Witches bewitch me though I have come off plane in order to get my sighting on both markers in the Witches/Timber channel when the surfs been up. I doubt there's many people who've ever boated that haven't muttered "Hey, what's that marker doing over there ?!?" followed by an "Oh .....".

To err is human, to miss the rocks ... just fine !

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by webmaster

I knew we should have put up that lighthouse .

Or have them filled in Like Siver Duck suggested. Or we could put mooring balls all around the Witches so the rafting set would have someplace offshore to raft. Pepper could put a floating stand in the middle. Perhaps an ice cream stand and maybe some video games at the south end. The Naswa could open a rock bar at the north end. Cute girls could paddle from boat to boat offering you overpriced drinks. Yeah I can see it now .....

[secondcurve]

SA:

It's nice to have someone share a mistake for the benefit of the other members. One point I'd make is that you were probably cruising too fast for your location on the lake. I certainly don't want to open up the speed limit debate and I don't have a strong opinion on the topic, but when I am relatively close to land I throttle back to 25mph. That speed moves me along briskly but yet allows me time to react to obstacles and/or situations such as the one you experienced. 40MPH is starting to really move and hitting obstacles at that speed can be unforgiving. I save speeds of over 35MPH for the Broads. Good luck and thanks for sharing an incident that we all have experienced in one form or another.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

I have to have my eyes open when I do the zig-zag around Pitchwood and Stonedam but I guess I'd close them if I were to try to steer a boat through them ... You've got one uber strong lower unit by my reckoning !

A slip of the tongue I have made. Yes, I'd prefer to go around them as well.

Speaking of Stonedam, when I was just a kid, I remember old Tom Rice driving his Laker from the house on Stonedam by our house and onward to Shep Browns. A great thing the old man did with that island. We used to row across and hike that hill. Bugs are viscous there

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

...You are absolutely lucky the lake is pretty full.... usually when you let off the throttle on the wrong side of a marker you hear a VERY LOUD BANG as the boat settles in the water..."

The Voice of Experience?

Originally Posted by MAXUM

"...I hear the graveyard is just as nasty..."

I got a scare in my catamaran—while zipping right along—at Middle Ground Shoals, another trouble spot.

The bottom kept jumping into view repeatedly on one occasion, but I was sure I'd left those shoals behind. Shortly afterwards, I discovered that the bright sun was reflecting off the white jib, then being re-reflected off the water that made those huge "boulders" rise up to the surface! What a relief!

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

"...Or have them filled in Like Silver Duck suggested. Or we could put mooring balls all around the Witches so the rafting set would have someplace offshore to raft..."

All are good ideas, but recall that concept originated in 2005:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...7&postcount=13

[SAMIAM]

Had a close call once at Black Cat Island, a while back. I keep my depth finder alarm set at 5' and we were cruising the shoreline at headway speed looking at homes. Suddenly,on the south east side of the island a big granite ledge loomed up in front of us.My alarm didn't warn me because the water is very deep right up to the ledge and it is only 10' or 12' below the surface.I reversed quickly and stopped about 12' from the ledge.
Only thing that bothered me was the fact that one of the residents ,a guy in his 40's,was floating in a large tube very close to this big scary ledge and could have easily warned us.As I reversed and went around it,I saw several long white scars where other boats had clipped their lower units.It seems as though this guy was waiting for a boat to come along to provide a little entertainment for him.
Not as scary as the "Witches" story, but a little unnerving.

[Steve]

This story brings up something I've thought about many times.

When there's a hazard so dangerous, that causes so much grief to so many people, mistakes, lack of training or not, why doesn't the state decide it's actually better to just get rid of the darn rocks. I'm sure the environmental groups have a strong opinion on it, but it seems the advantage of doing away with them far outweighs any value they add to the area.

Glad you're ok. My first time on Winnie, I idled by the witches in awe...thinking about "What If..."

[Sman]

I've always wanted to snorkel in the witches and the middle ground shoal. Anybody tried? Seems like waves might be a problem...

DaveR--I snorkled the withches maybe 5 yrs ago, saw a lot of rocks, obviously, most of it was pretty shallow and I saw a lot of rocks with straight white marks on the top of them, from where lower units hit, I found a few lower unit pieces too, didn't see much else. It was during the week, not many boats. I would say that it was worth doing, sort of different, being so far from shore in shallow water, I snorkled the grave yard too, I thought that was more interesting, haven't done middle ground shoal.

Good value to posting this original story to heighten awareness of shoals in general. the tag line to start the thread was certainly an attention getter, glad your ok sa meredith.

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by momof3

Glad to hear you are safe! I also always look for the black marker at Locke, once I missed it and ALMOST ended up in the dreaded circle! I was very nervous and wasn't even in the circle. Can't inagine the feeling.
I also feel that there should be more markers or something around that area just becasue it is so dangerous.

momof3;

I completely agree that the "witches" area should be marked better. Maybe with taller markers??

Yes, I know everyone on Winni knows about the witches and to stay out of the dreaded circle, but that area is in a very busy part of the lake, and many unsuspecting, unfamiliar, and even familiar boaters can easily make a mistake and end up where they shouldn't.

Dan

[John A. Birdsall]

I am always leary of the witches, am glad to hear a good ending. I can recall coming out of the wears after the fireworks one year and I got disorientated. I stopped the boat turned off my lights looking for the light bouy off the roccks. apparently the MP seen me turning my light on and off and came to my rescue.

[chmeeee]

Originally Posted by Sman

DaveR--I snorkled the withches maybe 5 yrs ago, saw a lot of rocks, obviously, most of it was pretty shallow and I saw a lot of rocks with straight white marks on the top of them, from where lower units hit, I found a few lower unit pieces too, didn't see much else. It was during the week, not many boats. I would say that it was worth doing, sort of different, being so far from shore in shallow water,

Out of curiosity, where did you anchor to do this? I'd love to do it myself, but would be paranoid to get anywhere near the Witches. I always kind of assumed that the water was very deep immediately around them, perhaps too deep for my measly 100' anchor rode (at a proper angle).

[Sman]

It's been a while but I know I entered from the Southwest side, don't have a map in front of me, but the lighted buoy closer to Governers Island. At the time there were two of us and I had a 16' bass boat with the outboard trimmed completely out of the water, trolled in with the electric trolling motor, we were able to easily navigate in and achor off, honestly can't remember how deep it was where we achored. Must have been later in the season, I remember the rocks being significantly above water in some places.

Not trying to make it sound like a no-brainer or caution is not needed, definitely have to be carefull, helps to have a buddy. We had a good day and a good boat to do it with, worked out, and satisfied my curiosity too.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by Sman

It's been a while but I know I entered from the Southwest side, don't have a map in front of me, but the lighted buoy closer to Governers Island. At the time there were two of us and I had a 16' bass boat with the outboard trimmed completely out of the water, trolled in with the electric trolling motor, we were able to easily navigate in and achor off, honestly can't remember how deep it was where we achored. Must have been later in the season, I remember the rocks being significantly above water in some places.

Not trying to make it sound like a no-brainer or caution is not needed, definitely have to be carefull, helps to have a buddy. We had a good day and a good boat to do it with, worked out, and satisfied my curiosity too.

I can never imagine WANTING to go back in there...I guess snorkling would be interesting, but I think I would find it tough to get comfortable in an area that you are condition to fear.
I'll say this..there were areas (on the side I visited) where could probably have jumped from rock to rock over a distance of 20/25 feet , without swimming. All rocks looked to be just inches below....I never really gave the depth finder a look (it was clear I was not in enough water, hahaha).
Honestly, it was just an eery eery place to be. Here's an analogy...Someone may attend their first open casket funeral, and find it strange being aroung a dead body, but not that hard to deal with. But now, their first trip to a morgue, with dead bodies everywhere...a very different thing...not normal to see. Not trying to be funny...I think this analogy works well. One rock with a single marker? OK. But dozens upon dozens of boulders??? While in a 24' boat? I'll pass (or crash).
Anyway, if you do go snorkelling there, be careful...I puked in the water!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

All are good ideas, but recall that concept originated in 2005:
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...7&postcount=13

Yup, that's where I recall Silver Duck suggesting the Witches be filled in to create your sandy isle.


There are other places that are, right now, navigational hazards that could, if "we" really wanted to, be converted into recreational mooring fields / rafting areas. With less free shoreline it might be fun and necessary to exploit them. Maybe we could get Bizer to issue super detailed charts of these areas with GPS waypoints for safe passage routes in between the rocks. I'll bet the fishermen already know such routes. Perhaps the next time () sa meredith finds himself amongst the rocks, it'll be on purpose and not so gut wrenching.

[Silver Duck]

Actually, my suggestion for filling in the Witches with rocks and sand to make a rafting location was kind'o "tongue-in-cheek" . Besides, once it was done, someone would turn it into "Witches Estates", build a few McMansions, and apply for a no-rafting area in order to boost the prices!

I do, however, strongly second the earlier posting(s) that the Navaids on Winni could use a good bit of improvement (read, bigger and more visible.) I think that the fact that the present ones just don't cut it in terms of visibility is borne out by the number of broken Navaids I see around the lake.

IMHO, the best way to navigate the lake is to have a GPS chartplotter (with the Bizer Chart, of course ) which is used to show one exactly where to look for the Navaid, but to rely on the Navaid itself to tell you exactly where the safe water is. And, of course, slow down (way down) if necessary until you actually see it!

Silver Duck

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Silver Duck

I do, however, strongly second the earlier posting(s) that the Navaids on Winni could use a good bit of improvement (read, bigger and more visible.) I think that the fact that the present ones just don't cut it in terms of visibility is borne out by the number of broken Navaids I see around the lake.

Silver Duck

I think we can all agree that the markers could be improved but what could be done with reasonable economy ? Toppers ala ApS's CD reflectors could make the buoys stand out more especially in the rough water ... so long as the Sun was out. There are more visible colors than the red and black tips presently used but that would require a wholesale changeover, all at once and not just on Winni. (Then again maybe not .... hmmmm) I guess you could always put in more buoys (there are places other than the Witches which IMO need them more desperately) but that's $$s to do and maintain each year. Mylar helium balloon affixed to the buoys would stand out as well ... but then the kids would be stealing them.

Ideas anyone ?

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

I think we can all agree that the markers could be improved but what could be done with reasonable economy ? ...the buoys would stand out as well ... but then the kids would be stealing them.

Ideas anyone ?

Let's see the kids steal one of these...

P.S.- They would definitely leave a mark if Capt Bonehead were to hit one.

P.P.S.- The ocean markers would work well at the Lake.

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by sa meredith

Well, maybe not a lighthouse, but as I replayed this event in head over and over again last night, while trying to sleep, it did occur to me that, although everyone should know that the Witches are there, and I have noone to blame but myself, they really could be marked a bit better. I was thinking something similar to a "fairway flag" (for anyone that golfs). Simply a white or balck flag on a thin pole 8 to 10 feet in the air. Certainly not an eye sore, as it would be barely visible from land, but anyone who knows they are approaching, could seek out the flag, and set the correct course. Just a thought. It would not be of any help to me...I can promise you, I'll never be in there agian.

I tell you, I was sweating reading your account -- almost felt like I was in that boat with you! There are many areas of the lake to be very careful in, but there are probably more horror stories about the Witches than all the others combined.

As far as GPS goes -- and this portion is actually addressed to everyone -- I'd still be very cautious in that area; don't forget what happened to the NASWA boat several years back, when she ended up in the Witches; that was WITH a GPS going and a seasoned member of the Coast Guard piloting her.

Regarding the markers around the Witches, in my opinion they are absolutely and totally "under" marked (for lack of a better way to put it), and I've thought this for the more-years-than-I'm-telling that I've boated on Winni. I, myself, have sometimes lost track of where I am on the lake, and that is one place nobody wants to find themselves!

[RI Swamp Yankee]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

... Mylar helium balloon affixed to the buoys would stand out as well ... but then the kids would be stealing them.

Ideas anyone ?

Posts with pink flamingos on them. Just like when you put them in your yard, everybody notices them. Put a ring of them around the Witches and everybody will notice.

[macshpman]

How many trips, seasons of boating do you think it would take if we all took a 5 gallon pail of beach sand and dumped it each time by the Witches to create our own safe haven?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Let's see the kids steal one of these...

P.S.- They would definitely leave a mark if Capt Bonehead were to hit one.

P.P.S.- The ocean markers would work well at the Lake.

If we used those on the Witches, how would we know if we are coming or going (red, right, return)? Those are used to mark channels, not obstructions. Plus the seal would not be happy here.

What about a bunch of these all around the dangerous areas, like the rest of the country uses?:



These are much bigger in diameter and much easier to spot than the spars. When you see a few, you know not to go between them. Combined with our current spars, they would probably make everyone happy and add no ambiguity.

[brk-lnt]

I've often wished that NH would not try to invent its own marker system and go with the standardized navigable waters marker system. The black spars can be especially hard to see in sunlight at times.

[Sman]

I think it could be argued that based on the size of the area and the location they should increase the amount of markers around the area.

My opinion.... the problem is that the witches span an area that is bigger than other lake shoals and they are right in the middle of an area that I tell people is like a highway going from weirs to wolfeboro or the broads. There are no roads on the lake but draw a line from the weirs to the broads and beyond and it is like a highway on the weekend, right in that path is the witches.

Good thread, I am glad that all sa meredith lost was his/her lunch.

[fatlazyless]

The old wood spar markers could weigh 250lbs after getting water logged. The old tapered spar markers were a 14'x8"x8" timber at center, and could really bash in a boat's hull. The new pvc tube spars, about 8'x 6" diameter, weigh maybe 10lbs.

It could be that boaters have learned through observation that hitting one of the new spars will not do any damage to a boat hull.

The new pvc spars have enough flotation inside to support a swimmer with his/her shoulders out of the water, sitting on it bicycle style.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

SA:

It's nice to have someone share a mistake for the benefit of the other members. One point I'd make is that you were probably cruising too fast for your location on the lake. I certainly don't want to open up the speed limit debate and I don't have a strong opinion on the topic, but when I am relatively close to land I throttle back to 25mph. That speed moves me along briskly but yet allows me time to react to obstacles and/or situations such as the one you experienced. 40MPH is starting to really move and hitting obstacles at that speed can be unforgiving. I save speeds of over 35MPH for the Broads. Good luck and thanks for sharing an incident that we all have experienced in one form or another.

First of all...thanks to everyone who wished me well, and stated they were glad I was safe...both in this thread and thru PMs. This past Monday afternoon, from 4:15 to 4:30 is a segment in time I wish I could erase.
Making a mistake and learning from it can be a positive thing....
But feeling sheer terror? It sucked!
Upon further review, I totally agree with Secondcurve.
My speed was excessive. After travelling thru the broads from Wolfeboro, which is generally wide open cruising, upon reaching Locke's, it is time to back it down a bit, re-focus, and sharpen up a bit. Especially running with no GPS. But I was grooving to the radio, and basking in the glow and warmth of the late afternoon sun. I would normally back down to 20/25 MPH at Locke's as there is traffic there...but, naaaa, that's for beginners, right? Ya right! So, I believe when I mentally calculated that I had not yet reached the Witches, and decided to pass Governor's to the right instead of the left, I never accounted for the fact I was travelling at 40, not my regular 20/25.
Had it been 20, I probably would indeed have been were I thought I was.
40 MPH was wrong, and had this turned tragic, I would have had only myself to blame.
That being said, while everyone should always consult their chart, or GPS, and know where they are at all times, I believe we can all agree..The Witches are not marked in a way that is consistent with how vicious they are. A small leash is going to hold a normal size dog, but the same leash is not appropriate for a 80 lb Doberman. Get it?
And lastly, if you think you might be near the Witches but are not sure, look for my Monday afternoon lunch floating in the water.

[kjbathe]

I didn't re-read the other thread, but it seems we've covered the need for new/larger/more Witches navaids before. And even though SA had this experience and I'm happy that he came out unscathed, I still don't think we need more or larger navaids in that area. And here's why...

Where would it end?

That rocky shoal pre-dates any of us. It wasn't new when the natives first marked it. It wasn't new when it was charted in 1911. And almost 100 years later, it's still not new. I personally don't want some obnoxious, visually-impossible-to-miss, pink-flamingo-topped structure out there dumbing-down and warning folks to avoid something they should already be looking for. That's what charts and a throttle are for.

If we keep trying to make everything idiot-proof, we'll just keep building better idiots. (Not suggesting at all that SA was an idiot -- quite the opposite given everything shared here and the willingness and good spirit in which it was done.) But I groan at the thought there are actually some folks out there who would honestly believe that a state- or federally-funded initiative to blast and dredge the lake to make it free from all boating hazards is really a good idea. Part of the fun of boating is having a healthy respect for, or being afraid of and cautiously exploring, unfamiliar areas. Even the familiar ones.

Just my 2 cents...

[SIKSUKR]

Every time I'm on the lake I encounter the Witches,which would be in the hundreds of times and I still find it hard to see the the whole area being marked.You must constantly scan and and then many times,oops,theres another marker over there.I could see a few more markers helping with that situation.

[sa meredith]

Originally Posted by kjbathe

. Part of the fun of boating is having a healthy respect for, or being afraid of and cautiously exploring, unfamiliar areas. Even the familiar ones.

Just my 2 cents...

Well said, Kjbathe. I agree will all of it. All I am suggesting is a tall flag, on a very thin pole...similar to a Fairway Flag, if you happen to be a golfer.
No huge or bright items floating the water. Leave the markers as they are.
But in the center, a simple balck flag visible from, say 100 yards or so. At 100 yards (300 feet) every boater should be able to "pick it up" and act accordingly.
On my day, after making my right turn, I would have quickly spied the flag..
Just a thought...I'm sure it will never happen, and that's OK.
As I stated, I'm quite sure my lesson is learned!

[Excalibur]

I was happy to see you came away unscathed, god is your co-pilot for sure.

From my experience on the lake, it all depends on the lighting conditions and wind and wave action. There are times you can cruise along and see a floating paper cup a 1/4 mile away.

I had a similar Oh S**t moment on the jet ski last week, before Moultonborough Bay, while navigating back from Lee's Mills to Gilford. I missed a marker and looked down and the dark blue water had turned yellow. Being on something that draws less then a foot and cruising at 20, it still felt a bit unnerving.

I have heard from people who have traveled on other lakes, is that Winnipesaukee can be unique and being glacier formed has much more rocks then most.

Another spot on the big lake I have seen close calls is by Welch Island and the forty's. There is one red marker that can easily be missed if you cut to soon after the first. There is a ledge off of Fish island that has claimed a few boaters.

I have routinely cut markers that I know there is plenty of water around them from earlier investigation as a scuba diver.

I think the best thing is not to panic and slow down, you did the smart move. I know when you come off plane you draw more water. But I would rather bump a rock at 5 MPH then 40 MPH. Then you have an excuse to send your prop out to be laser balanced to make the boat go faster.

[neckdweller]

Last week I was out on the boat and fished something out of the water (no, not SA's lunch). It was a map of the lake and the witches were circled and had a big X through them. Guess the original map owner wasn't a big fan of the area either.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Last week I was out on the boat and fished something out of the water (no, not SA's lunch). It was a map of the lake and the witches were circled and had a big X through them. Guess the original map owner wasn't a big fan of the area either.

Are you sure it wasn't a treasure map with the X marking "the spot" ????

[Merrymeeting]

Can someone let me know about the paddle issue? I have always been under the belief that a paddle/oar was a required piece of safety equipment. Today I checked the NH boating site and didn't see mention of it.

Has my lifelong belief been wrong as it appears? If so, I'll continue to believe that every large boat should have one. But is it not a requirement?

Thanks

[Airwaves]

But I think that a paddle or oar is required on vessels of 16 feet or less.

I have larger boats than that but I still carry a paddle on them. If need be I would use it to attach an orange flag so that I can wave it as a VDS or to paddle out of the Witches Circle

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

But I think that a paddle or oar is required on vessels of 16 feet or less.

I have larger boats than that but I still carry a paddle on them. If need be I would use it to attach an orange flag so that I can wave it as a VDS or to paddle out of the Witches Circle

I think I hear an echo...

[NightWing]

Paddles (2) are only required on class A and class 1 commercial vessels.

Certainly a good idea to have on a recreational boat, but not mandatory.

[Airwaves]

Originally posted by Nightwing
Paddles (2) are only required on class A and class 1 commercial vessels.

Well that clears it right up...

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Well that clears it right up...

SAF-C 403.08, #3

Why the rolled eyes?

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Paddles (2) are only required on class A and class 1 commercial vessels.

Certainly a good idea to have on a recreational boat, but not mandatory.

I've always had a paddle, mine is a telescoping one with a boat hook on the end. It does serve many purposes. I doubt I could paddle my boat very far even on a calm day, but the hook has served to reach objects in the water, a person on the dock if my docking skills were less than perfect, grabbing a line that has gone astray, and protecting my boat from Champ, who has made previous attempts to board my vessel. A simple tap on the top of the head from a safe distance usually does the trick.

[Don]

Originally Posted by neckdweller

Last week I was out on the boat and fished something out of the water (no, not SA's lunch). It was a map of the lake and the witches were circled and had a big X through them. Guess the original map owner wasn't a big fan of the area either.

If it was a Duncan Press chart it sounds like it flew off a Anchor Marine rental. Bob circles and X's the Witches on his charts and I've watched him emphasising over and over to renters about that area.

A few years ago a co-worker took his kids to the Lake with his sons. He rented a boat from Anchor Marine and within 15 minutes hit the rocks between Big and Little Island in Paugus Bay causing $1500 damage to the outdrive. Since he was never on the Lake I really grilled him in advance about the rocks and the absolute necessity of using the chart and being sure he knew exactly where he was. Apparently the lure of that open water made him forget my advice.

[Don]

Originally Posted by NightWing

Paddles (2) are only required on class A and class 1 commercial vessels.

Certainly a good idea to have on a recreational boat, but not mandatory.

I'm not sure about the rules on the Lake but years ago I got burned on a Coast Guard Auxiliary safety inspection at the ramp on the Charles River in Boston for not having "Alternate Propulsion" on board. At first I didn't know what he meant until it was explained that it meant a paddle.

I would be surprising if alternate propulsion was not required on most power boats on the lake.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Don

...I would be surprising if alternate propulsion was not required on most power boats on the lake...

I'll vouch for my good friend Nightwing, he is correct in his post.

Paddles (alternate propulsion source) are only required on Type A and Type I commercial boats when operating on the big Lake. Type A is a commercial motorboat less than 16 foot and Type I is a commercial boat between 16 and 26 foot.

It is very difficult keeping track of the various differences in boating laws from State to State, even here in New England.

And has been previously stated by others, I never leave the dock without a good paddle or two aboard, regardless of the regulations in effect here in the Granite State!

[sa meredith]

Ok...so two events...two good lessons...
Last year, a boat sinks in the broads, and as the discussion goes along, we all learn things like having the bellows checked, and checking coolant hoses that can work themselves loose (although niether of these proved to be the cause of the sinking).

This year, some fool drives right into the Witches, and now we all know to always have "alternate propulsion" on board. That guy really should have know that already. Bonehead!

[snowbird]

SA, I think you were just as lucky as I was------50 years ago!! I was headed out from Glendale via the left side of Lockes. It was a pitch black night and I had just arrived at the Lake following an 8 hr drive. Rounding Lockes, I set course, via dead reckoning, for what I thought was Round Island. Only after I ended up in the middle of The Witches, amazingly not hitting any of the dunce caps around me, did I figure out it must have been Timber I was aiming at. I got out of there pretty much as you were able to, but with the help of my emergency paddle. So, don't feel too bad, SA, these were experiences neither you nor I will ever forget. My respect for the myriad hazards of boating on Lake Winnipesaukee received a needed boost that scary night. Thanks for your story.

[ryin]

I've always wanted to snorkel in the witches and the middle ground shoal. Anybody tried? Seems like waves might be a problem...

Out of curiosity, where did you anchor to do this? I'd love to do it myself, but would be paranoid to get anywhere near the Witches.

I also snorkled in the Witches, we anchored on the southern side around the red spar next to FL 27 spar. I slowly moved in just outside the spar and anchored there. had about 12-15ft of water under us. suprisingly I did not find much in the witches, a lot of rocks and a few large and lazy Bass, but didnt find to many broken lower unit pieces. When I swam back to the boat, had noticed something shiny right below the boat, dived down to retrieve a nice little anchor. It was a bit wavy, but not to bad.

I also snorkled the right off Fish island after friends of mine had missed the markers and drove straight through it, completely tearing off the lower unit, the first day of a week's vacation. That place is a mess! 3 huge spines jet out from the island to the markers, with rocks and huge bolders less than 6" under water. Found many pieces of props, skegs, lower units... even an old nokia cell phone!

I also had an accident last summer in moultonborough dont remeber the name of island it was near, but I was following my gps trial, and slightly was off course about 15 ft. I was traveling about 23mph trying to get back to long island bridge marina for gas before they closed in 10 minutes (had to make it back to weirs) well I noticed I was off the trail a little, looked up and I was on the wrong side of the marker, looked at the depth finder and it shot right up to 5ft...3ft... I quickly through it into neutral and started trimming up, then BANG BANG BANG and watched the outboard be jammed around. didnt take off the skeg but did wear down about 1/2" on the front of it. luckily I noticed in time and trimmed up. if I didnt it would have been ripped off. That was my first accident and also had the GPS and chart out. after this I made a custom map for my garmin gps containing all bouys, routes, rocks, and tried it out this year and worked like a charm.

[jrc]

Twenty something years ago Dad and I ran the 19' cuddy out of gas in Glidden Cove, in October. He had two paddles. Either required or he just thought they were a good idea. We could not move that boat the 1000' we needed to move it to dock. After over an hour of struggling a passer by towed us back to our dock.

Remember even a small motorboat has a lot more freeboard than a canoe or rowboat. Freeboard means you're too high to really get a stroke with the paddle, plus it means that even a small breeze will overpower your best efforts. Nowadays, I'd spend the money on good boat hook and a Tow Boat US membership.

[Rinkerfam]

I too found myself inside the circle of misfortune some twenty years ago. I wasn't paying close enough attention to the markers off of Timber Island. All I could hear in my head was Henry Fonda saying "those rocks eat boats". Ever since the Purgatory Cove scene in On Golden Pond (which I saw for the first time when I was 12 years old) I have had more than a healthy respect for the ominous granite outcroppings that exist within the waters of the big lake.

[WinnDixie]

As I've mentioned, I enjoy all your boat trips through this forum, from afar. This one takes the prize, sa Meredith! I have always had a fascination with the Witches. They are mesmerizingly scary...or scarily mesmerizing--take your choice! I am always compelled to look at them when I cruise by...safely on The Mount!! They're ominous! Your excursion got me as close as I'd ever need to be. Well told...sorry you had to suffer in order to tell it, and glad it has a happy ending!

[jasn]

That was a a scary read SA. Glad you made it out safe and thanks for sharing.