Lake level and markers

[Skip]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

...No thanks. My voting power -- such as it is -- is best reserved for another state, where mitigations and impact fees can rein in the chainsaws, chippers, pavers, and bulldozers -- and one that has real Enforcement -- not "enforcement on the cheap".

Wow,

A thread about lake level & markers has digressed into a diatribe with a registered {out-of-state} voter telling us New Hampshirites what is wrong with our method of counting/casting ballots!

Anyways, those guffaws you heard permeating your walls this morning? It was only me, but thank you for starting my day off with a good laugh.

[PROPELLER]

Mad, don't tell me your a registered voter in Massachusetts, the perfect state that does everything right? It doesn't even have to be Massachusetts, no state has a monopoly perfect government practices. Spare us the holier than thou attitude

[madrasahs]

Hah Hah Hah Massachusetts? hee hee hee hee

The "Big Dig" took longer to dig than the tunnel under the English Channel! And now that it's opened, it's filling up with water!

No, I vote absentee in Florida, a fact I express freely elsewhere on this Forum. Florida's a mess, but it's BIG --something New Hampshire isn't.

The clock is ticking on our hills, our water quality, our quiet, our island chapels, our recreation, our safety, and the quality of life in general.

The "Bay State" provides plenty of ammunition for its detractors -- mostly on News/Talk radio and print media. At least New Hampshire "only" has lobbyists at the helm.

There's only one box to check on Massachusetts ballots.

Massachusetts is run by crooks.

[Bubba]

We are voting everyday of our lives. Everyday, the way we spend our dollars (or cents) is a vote. From where we buy lunch to where we buy gas. The catholic church is in a pinch right now. Parishiners are voting with their pockets (or lack thereof).

Everyone should vote, in every primary, local, and general election. Even if you have to vote absentee everytime, vote! If you do not vote, don't complain. I wonder how many legal immigrants who never got a chance to vote in their original countries miss an opportunity to vote in the USA?!?!

[PROPELLER]

Mad, You are correct about Florida. It is a mess. 1. It is the 3rd most populated state but not the 3rd largest in area. 2. most of the population is crowded at the shore lines leaving the inland part of the state sparse. 3. Environmentally Floridians have nothing on NH, the Everglades are being filled in for developement & then they wonder why Alligators are in their living rooms, eating their dogs & why is my house sinking... HEE HEE HEE. 4. Drinking water is becoming sparse because of population. 5. Gated communities popping up all over. 6. Strip malls as far as the eye can see. 7. Fights between environmentalists & developers over new marinas, Manatee free zones & damage to coral reefs & sea grass beds. Just to name a few.

No thank you, I will stay right here in NH for the time being. Maybe the snow & cold winters will keep people moving south.

P.S. I also don't like the Miami Dolphins.

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Outland

swim-spaghetti-sized white foamy lumps (still wondering what is meant by these)

Well, they're foam (suds), white, yellow, or beige in color, and I think maybe the swim-thingys are called noodles, not spaghetti. I've got photos, but they're not digitized yet.

"Foam" can be pillow-sized -- even mattress-sized -- and appear in September (when the lake is drawn down and more sand is exposed) after a North wind against (mostly) north-facing shorelines. Although they can migrate anywhere. I've got a call into DES, and will advise -- if they know.

My working theory is that the north-facing shorelines, having taken Big Boat wake "hits" all summer, have exposed large new soil surfaces to bacteria in the "new" shallows. North-facing shorelines don't get the really bad north winter blasts because the lake is iced over then. Not many north-facing Winnipesaukee non-island shorelines have sufficient fetch, either.

Originally Posted by Skip

your alleged conspiracies.

I used conspiracies?

that legisltors are corrupt

I used corrupt?

lobbying in New Hampshire was unfair...

I used unfair?

Interestingly enough, one article is 3 years old...

2000 was the only national election we've had between 1999-2004.

BTW, there was an 18% turnout, which favored the state pro-income-tax Dems. http://www.fosters.com/September2004...nning_0919.asp

Blah, blah, blah blah.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

...from your anonimity...(edited out)

My anonimity?

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Mad, You are correct about Florida. It is a mess.

As a Navy brat, my family has lived in many places -- all of them on the water, or very near the water.

All*** of those other places have had their waters ruined and their natural beauty stripped from them -- mostly by lousy planning, spot zoning, and rampant development. Real estate agents pressured multi-millionaire's plans against the farmer or corrupted local government. I wouldn't go back to any of them to live or retire.

***(Well, not all: Narragansett Bay was already ruined upon arrival).

We still managed most summers (and occasionally year-round) at Lake Winnipesaukee.

The life-lesson I hope to continue at the Forum is to convey my dismay at the RATE of change here at the lake.

The Lakes Region is like watching a slow-motion train wreck, with one car after another folding against another and careening off the tracks. It appears that I may actually see the day that the caboose finally launches off the railroad bed.

[NightWing]

Sir, if I may quote part of your last:

"The life-lesson I hope to continue at the Forum is to convey my dismay at the RATE of change here at the lake.

The Lakes Region is like watching a slow-motion train wreck, with one car after another folding against another and careening off the tracks. It appears that I may actually see the day that the caboose finally launches off the railroad bed."

It is a shame that you can't convey more of a positive message about the lake. You are fortunate to have lake front property and it is sad that so many of the things you write about express your anger. Here is a smiley for you. Maybe it will help.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

Well, they're foam (suds), white, yellow, or beige in color, and I think maybe the swim-thingys are called noodles, not spaghetti. I've got photos, but they're not digitized yet.

"Foam" can be pillow-sized -- even mattress-sized -- and appear in September (when the lake is drawn down and more sand is exposed) after a North wind against (mostly) north-facing shorelines. Although they can migrate anywhere. I've got a call into DES, and will advise -- if they know.

Thought this might be of interest, or at least something to talk to the DES about when you call them.

http://www.cayugalake.org/newsletter/winter/2003/lake_foam.html

Foam is generally caused by agents called surfactants, which reduce the surface tension of water. When air is mixed with the water surface by wave or wind action, bubbles form. Laundry and other detergents have long been known to be a source of surfactants in lakes and streams. However, evidence is pointing in this case to an entirely natural source of these compounds. When organisms, such as algae, plants, fish and/or zebra mussels die and decompose they release fatty acids, which act as surfactants. Storms and agitation from boats cause these natural surfactants to mix with surface waters, resulting in streaks of sudsy white foam, which can collect in large quantities on windward shores, coves, or in eddies.

Found two other wed sites that basically said the same.

.....covered by the white foam of natural saponins produced by the decomposition of lake algae.....



.....thick piles of white foam, a natural reaction when the lake's carbonate-rich water is agitated.....

Originally Posted by madrasahs

My working theory is that the north-facing shorelines, having taken Big Boat wake "hits" all summer, have exposed large new soil surfaces to bacteria in the "new" shallows. North-facing shorelines don't get the really bad north winter blasts because the lake is iced over then. Not many north-facing Winnipesaukee non-island shorelines have sufficient fetch, either.

Some things can be created naturally but it appears that most if not everything you post has to do with BIG boats, FAST boats, BIG boat wakes. Curious, is this something to do with "boat-us envy?"

[Skip]

Mad,

You need to go back and re-read the still baseless allegations you made in your post #17.

Still anxiously awaiting any proof you have to back up your insinuation that the New Hampshire State Legislature is corrupt and that the New Hampshire election process is over-run by out of state (Massachussetts in particular) students.

Or were those claims made by you just more "working theories"?

Patiently awaiting,

Skip

[PROPELLER]

Mad, Where is your scientific proof that it is big boat wakes contributing to the foam & not just any old boat wake from relatively small 18' bow riders for example, if boat wakes have any thing at all to do with the foam. Big is a relative term, what you think is big may not be to the several thousand people who use the lake. Maybe big wave action like Sunday contributes. How are you going to stop that?

I gather from old posts when you were I.R. that you think the biggest boat on the lake should be 24'. Why is that the magic number? Boats 24' & smaller can create big wakes when they are not planed off.

Why is your personal dismay of the changes at the lake a life lesson for the rest of us?

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

Mad, Where is your scientific proof that it is big boat wakes contributing to the foam?

Consider that a "working theory" is akin to a hypothesis. Nothing's "scientific" until somebody produces a study that can be reliably reproduced by another.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

When organisms, such as algae, plants, fish and/or zebra mussels die and decompose they release fatty acids, which act as surfactants.

Thanks! This is an update for me. I didn't know that zebra mussels were in Cuyahoga County lakes. Our own mussels seem to be alive and well. Zebras do go through "die-offs" which probably raised the consciousness of NY lake residents when foam got bad.

I called DES, and they said they'd seen it so high on Winnipesaukee beaches that winds would blow the foam across the roadway! He couldn't answer my question about when it started, as "foam" records only go back ten years. I think it's related to the "green snot" that started appearing about 20 years ago in my area. Shoreline erosion fertilizes algae. As algae dies, it likely contributes to the foam, as I hadn't seen either (foam or algae) before about 1985, when I rented here on the lake.

Originally Posted by Propeller

How are you going to stop that?

Like the canary in the coal mine, foam appears to be an indicator of "organic load" in our lake. DES said they closed nearly twice as many lakes in NH this year as last. Something's going to stop "that", and probably too late. (The caboose, as it were).
.

Why is your personal dismay of the changes at the lake a life lesson for the rest of us?

I've been at the same spot for fifty years -- longer than Lakegeezer!

It won't be a life-lesson -- for many.

Originally Posted by Propeller

"I gather from old posts when you were I.R. that you think the biggest boat on the lake should be 24'. Why is that the magic number? Boats 24' & smaller can create big wakes when they are not planed off.

"Mad" is still plodding along at 1.85 posts per day, less than the suggested maximum at the olde Forum. I change my screen name every year so I can better access the archives. "Madrasahs" was selected to raise consciousness about:
1)world events
2)why sailing is better than using fossil fuels
3)and why gallon-per-minute boats contribute to our woes.

Considering "Thumpee" next year.***

What you should have seen was an advocacy of much higher fees for boats larger than 24-feet. Twenty-four feet was the length of the victim's boat in the "Baja incident". ***("I heard a thump".) If a 24-footer can't take the weather, it should anchor in the lee of a shore, or "shouldn't go out in it" in the first place.

Yes, the wakes are bad off-plane even then, but it gets worse as you add tonnage and length. Twenty-four feet is the new "legal maximum" for Folsum Lake, a big lake which got crazy on weekends.
.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Curious, is this something to do with "boat-us envy?"

If you received the latest "Coldwell Banker" real estate flyer, there's a full-page-cover photo of more sailboats clustered together than I have ever seen on Winnipesaukee. Coldwell wants to "project" the ambiance of peace and quiet to their prospective clients. (The "cabin-fever effect", perhaps)

"Envy" must be in the "ear of the beholder", I guess.

All of the boats I own presently are nearly the biggest I've ever wanted to own; however, "envy" is seeing a boat like Winnipesaukee Diver's going by -- under sail.

Originally Posted by Skip

Still anxiously awaiting any proof you have to back up your insinuation that the New Hampshire State Legislature is corrupt and that the New Hampshire election process is over-run by out of state (Massachussetts in particular) students.

Or were those claims made by you just more "working theories"?

If the Opinion of others quoted in NH newspapers won't do the trick, maybe Intuition will work.

Yesterday's national headlines were overshadowed by TV network woes. What mostly didn't appear was a news story that there are 29,000 New Yorkers illegally registered as voters in both New York and Florida.

1) With NH next door to Massachusetts, and
2) Hanover, NH (Dartmouth) votes going opposite the rest of the state and
3) news accounts like the above,

What should one's intuition tell one? That New Hampshire is immune to fraud?

Who (apparently, not me) can prove that there's no NH Medicare fraud, or NH voter fraud, or NH-lobbyist fraud, or real estate fraud? I mean, even the President's daughters have fake IDs. How is NH exempt from fraud? Because we're "nice"?

I earlier opined that "Massachusetts is run by crooks". You'll note that the Forum's staunch defenders of Massachusett's government have lined up to answer that charge none deep.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

I earlier opined that "Massachusetts is run by crooks". You'll note that the Forum's staunch defenders of Massachusett's government have lined up to answer that charge none deep.

If you'll read the link below, you'll see that crooked politicians are everywhere, even in your beloved NH. Perhaps my fellow Massholes realize the problem is everywhere and that's why they haven't lined up to refute your claim.

Political Tricks

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by madrasahs

1) With NH next door to Massachusetts, and
2) Hanover, NH (Dartmouth) votes going opposite the rest of the state and
3) news accounts like the above,

What should one's intuition tell one?

As with many of your posts, you seem to bend logic to suit your needs.

1) Last time I looked, Vermont was also next to NH
2) In the same look, I noted that Hanover is on the NH/VT border
3) Mapping software says that Hanover is about 80 miles from the closest point in MA

So, do I therefore conclude that Vermont government is also included in your sweeping statement?

[NightWing]

Once again, another thread is being dominated with the opinions of one person who quotes his challengers and refutes what they say. I am convinced that the subject doesn't matter. The thread will twist and turn and completely escape the gist of the original post. I have yet to see Madrasahs agree with anyone.

[PROPELLER]

Mad, "something is going to stop that" Something is going to stop wave action? You are mad! Because some lake somewhere chose to limit boat length to 24' that means its right for Winni? Listen to yourself. All boat operators are responsible for their wake no matter how big. If some big boat does damage then they should be held accountable but that does not mean we should impose a length limit. If all boats are operated properly & with enough distance from shore then there is no problem. If you are complaining about boat wakes causing white lumps of foam & damage to your shore line then all motorized boats should be eliminated because it does not matter what size, any boat will cause these issues.

[NightWing]

Originally Posted by PROPELLER

If you are complaining about boat wakes causing white lumps of foam & damage to your shore line then all motorized boats should be eliminated because it does not matter what size, any boat will cause these issues.

Propeller, boy are you opening Pandora's Box for Mad! This would suit him fine!

[Outlaw]

To answer the original question of this thread: Many local and weekend boaters use the Mount Washington's last cruise as an indicator when they take their boat out for the season (this year it would be October 23rd). It's not a bad idea to keep an eye on the long term weather forecast to see if there are any unexpected temperature drops that could cause freezing for a day or more (water in the boat motor(s) could freeze and cause damage). But if you're talking about now or October 8th, you should be fine with October 8th, and like I mentioned, keep an eye on the weather and if you are using a marina, chat with them to see when they can take the boat out (based on their schedule).

[Just Sold]

The original thread was about the lowering of the lake.

To that end we took a ride all the way up into Green's Basin today from Gilford via Alton Bay, a round about trip since we visited people Alton Bay first, but well worth the ride as it was so smooth on the lake today. A little cool when under way due to so many clouds vs sun. I posted a few Pics on the Photo Post.

The lake is noticeably lower but not so much that a 22' Cuddy could not negotiate the trip. Never hit anything or came close to it. I used the depth sounder a few times but was able to negotaite quite nicely using markers. Many of the rocks are visable which makes it easier to know where some of the bad spots are. This was our first trip all the way into Green's Basin and we really enjoyed it.

In Alton bay I could hear, loud, but only barely see the water rushing down the Cascades Falls so I would assume that there are many streams and brooks putting water into the lake pretty fast. I tried to get a photo of the Cascades but could not get anything reasonable. See photo post.

The lake is reported to be at 10.08" below full lake level and flowing out at 766 CFPS. The water temp is down to 66 F.

[madrasahs]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

The original thread was about the lowering of the lake.

Indeed it was; however, Wolfeboro Matt didn't divulge the draft of his boat, so answers were problematical from the gitgo.

A fair question to follow might have been: "What happens to the water that is drained from Winnipesaukee...Do Lowell and Lawrence (MA) use it as a drinking water source?"

Any good answer would not have introduced the word "primaries" (Outlaw) nor, subsequently, "Massachusetts" (Propeller).

As they will state in U.S. courtrooms, "Your Honor, they have opened the door".
.

Originally Posted by Outlaw

"Stop the MADness"

Good one.

Originally Posted by Propeller

Mad, "something is going to stop that" Something is going to stop wave action? You are mad! Because some lake somewhere chose to limit boat length to 24' that means its right for Winni? Listen to yourself. All boat operators are responsible for their wake no matter how big. If some big boat does damage then they should be held accountable but that does not mean we should impose a length limit. If all boats are operated properly & with enough distance from shore then there is no problem. If you are complaining about boat wakes causing white lumps of foam & damage to your shore line then all motorized boats should be eliminated because it does not matter what size, any boat will cause these issues.

Ever seen Captain "B" cited for wake damage? Has anybody?

Remember 556ZP from the Olde Forum? His boat ("less than 30-feet") didn't even leave a wake! Remarkable boat, that.
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=57465

His posts were also just one giant paragraph. Hmmmm.
.

Originally Posted by NightLite

Once again, another thread is being dominated with the opinions of one person who quotes his challengers and refutes what they say. I am convinced that the subject doesn't matter. The thread will twist and turn and completely escape the gist of the original post. I have yet to see Madrasahs agree with anyone.

Agree? Well, Skip agreed with me once -- regarding the PFD-less kayaker.

"Mac" has steadfastly disagreed with me, even stating that two of my three first boats -- all built by me -- were "too small for Winnipesaukee".

Today, while it's true I wouldn't take them out on most "boating" days, there are days that are suitable -- the same days that you'll sometimes see rowing sculls out there. Lake Winnipesaukee hasn't changed (on the surface, anyway), but the boating environment certainly has. Any disagreements there?

As for "refuting":

One very rich post needed refuting -- by anybody -- was this paraphrased one: "...I've installed Captain's Choice , and religiously followed the law...".

Very interesting, but it followed a promise not to refute the poster again.

As for "dominating":

At the olde Forum, there was much less "Thread Discipline". Posters would even change the thread title mid-thought. It was entertaining nonetheless -- right, FLL?

When it comes to discussion, the best ideas will rise to the surface. (They're all "opinions" anyway -- what the hay).

Besides, at this moment, 1,345 "views" have been made at this thread.

'Can't be a bad thing.