Meredith considers going union

[Beggaman Thief]

Unions are slowly loosing their members and stronghold over the years for all the obvious reasons stated above. With that being said, the only venues they have left to go after are the public sectors (Federal, State and Local) to organize workers. The biggest reason is these entities are not in business so to speak. If their expenses go up because of Union demands, no big deal – just raise our Taxes to cover it!

[bilproject]

Having a union enter the workplace is like having your kids hire a nanny and tell you to go through her if you want them to do anything. Meredith should not spend all their energy and resources on fighting the organization effort. It sounds like it is pretty far along. They should however, ask their employees for a cooling off period to discuss issues that have led to employees feeling they need an outside voice to speak for them. The town fathers might find that many of the issues can be resolved at little or no real dollar cost.
I would suggest a citzen advisory committee meet with both the workers and town and present a case to both parties together. The committee could be made up of towns people from labor and business. After they have a good feeling form both what each side finds good and bad about the other, the committee would report their findings to both sides at the same time.
Both sides would have to understand that this is an airing out of what they like as well as what they dislike about the relationship and work environment. The idea is to start a diologe that has definitly been missing. Things that can be fixed quickly should be done quickly and so on.
This approach has worked in many an organizing effort and preserved the employer-employee relationship. They need to remember that many of these employees are also their neighbors.
I don't think the town has anything to worry about on the wage issue at this stage. I could'nt think of a worst time in my 32 year in business of asking for anything new. In fact if Meredith DPW workers can maintain their current salary, most of their benefits and keep most of the workers working they will be doing great. The way I see the numbers most states, counties and local municipal governments will be faced with a 20-30% reduction in revenue. They will not just be able to raise taxes as they have in the past. Cuts are the only answer That stone is just about bled out! If Meredith thinks the second home market can absorb increases I would suggest they contact the shore communities on Long Beach Island here in NJ and ask them about all the 2-3mil dollar houses in forclosure, for sale, and up for tax auction.

[fatlazyless]

Meredith town employees seem to be pretty well insulated from the economic slow-down. Last March, on a warrant article at the late night, annual town meeting, brought forward by the police chief, the town voted for a 3% cost-of-living increase for all town employees. Basically, all those who were present voted a raise in pay for themselves. This was after the five town selectmen decided aganst supporting a similar 3% raise.

Just this past September, the selectmen unanimously agreed to purchase a new, built-to-order $725,000. aerial tower-fire truck, to go with the enlarged fire station. What ever happened to purchasing an older, used fire truck from a Boston suburb for much less money. I have to ask how much need is there for a brand new, aerial tower in Meredith? The Meredith fire dept is an on-call, volunteer fire dept.

Isn't is possible to locate a good used aerial tower from an urban town somewhere by searching the classified....if that works for the Ashlands, Plymouths, and Bristols of New Hampshire, then why not for Meredith, too?

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Just this past September, the selectmen unanimously agreed to purchase a new $725,000. aerial tower, fire truck, to go with the enlarged fire station. What ever happened to purchasing an older, used fire truck from a Boston suburb for much less money. I have to ask how much need is there for a brand new, aerial tower in Meredith? The Meredith fire dept is an on-call, volunteer fire dept.

What happened was Other Peoples Money. It's always easier to spend OPM vs your own. So what can you expect when the majority of your revenue comes from "rich land barons" (the "rich" are to be soaked in todays America) and most of them are from out of state (they are to be hung out to dry). Why not spend their $$s, who cares about being fair to "them" ? You are just collateral damage.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

.....Most other NH towns get their aerial towers used from craigslist....if that works for the Ashlands, Plymouths, and Bridgewaters of New Hampshire.....

From CraigsList? This is simply incorrect, inaccurate and misleading. Where did you get this data?

[fatlazyless]

ok,,,I have to agree with you that I made a stupid statement about most other NH towns purchasing fire trucks from craigslist. Probably, what with a Sam Adams beer, a lazyboy recliner-massager, and a web-tv...it's easy to get a little carried away....oopsie....my bad...and I apologize to the people who make the NH fire truck purchasing decisions.

Plus, I edited out my dopey comment to be more intelligent.

[SAMIAM]

FLL.....you just don't care about the children.......think how many hundreds of children will be saved with the new ladder.I think Meredith should have a helicopter available also.......and what about a fireboat to protect all of the shorline properties?

[momof3]

Well Gang...my husband is in a union. We are not rich, he does not make a lot of money for the experience he has(21 years worth) and up until three months ago we paid our own insurance premiums. His last union jod did not guarantee any job security since he ended up being laid off for 11 months, we went to being somewhat comfortable with our life style to living week to week. He has another job now, and we are thankful he is back to work, it is still union. His former company just called him and back but said "we can't guaratee for how long". Our insurance is now paid for 100%, yes a VERY nice perk, but there is no overtime, he has no vacation time until after 2 years and there is no sick time at all. He works hard, very hard, to provide for our family. I would like to have "37 days off a year", or whatever another forum member wrote. He will not have a vacation this year. However, let me state again we are very grateful he is working. My husband is a hard working man!
Just my two cents that not all union people are lazy looking for free money.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by momof3

Just my two cents that not all union people are lazy looking for free money.

You're very correct. Nobody has mentioned the "other half" of union members, those like your husband who pay their union dues and get nothing for it.

In modern job markets in the US (we'll say the last 25 or so years) unions have existed solely to benefit the union organization and the upper echelons of the people who work for the actual union on "behalf" of the members.

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by momof3

Well Gang...my husband is in a union. We are not rich, he does not make a lot of money for the experience he has(21 years worth) and up until three months ago we paid our own insurance premiums. His last union jod did not guarantee any job security since he ended up being laid off for 11 months, we went to being somewhat comfortable with our life style to living week to week. He has another job now, and we are thankful he is back to work, it is still union. His former company just called him and back but said "we can't guaratee for how long". Our insurance is now paid for 100%, yes a VERY nice perk, but there is no overtime, he has no vacation time until after 2 years and there is no sick time at all. He works hard, very hard, to provide for our family. I would like to have "37 days off a year", or whatever another forum member wrote. He will not have a vacation this year. However, let me state again we are very grateful he is working. My husband is a hard working man!
Just my two cents that not all union people are lazy looking for free money.

It's the attitude of the union leadership and the associated union structure.
Poor work ethics are protected.
Good work ethics are discouraged because it reflects badly on those who have poor work ethics.

People advance through longevity on the job rather than through learning more, improving quality of their work, and being more productive.

The business that pays their salary and benefits is the enemy.

Unions place demands on a business that are not justified by economic realities. Just because you WANT full insurance coverage doesn't mean that a company can afford it, even if you use your union clout to get it. Eventually the excess cost catches up with the company, especially in todays global economy where cheaper workers are available around the globe.

I'm sure your husband is a good worker but if the union tells him to dog it, he will, if he wants to keep working.

My comments are not aimed at the individual members but instead at the union philosophy and structure.

I wish your family well in these tough economic times.

[PennyPenny]

"where cheaper workers are available around the globe." A Union is a work force of man power. When Seabrook Station, Diablo Canyon, Vermont Yankee, DC Cook.Shillings Power,A/B Budwiser,Wentworth Douglas Hospital etc needs anywhere from 50-1000 trained,licenced,drug free people to come in on a days notice where or who do you suggest they call? They make call out to a Union hall and it starts the ball rolling. Call a master electrician or plumber and see how much they charge an hour. They don't, they caharge by the job. They get every nickle they can squeeze out of you that you are willing to pay and is is way more then an average union member makes an hour.

[PennyPenny]

Originally Posted by momof3

Well Gang...my husband is in a union. We are not rich, he does not make a lot of money for the experience he has(21 years worth) and up until three months ago we paid our own insurance premiums. His last union jod did not guarantee any job security since he ended up being laid off for 11 months, we went to being somewhat comfortable with our life style to living week to week. He has another job now, and we are thankful he is back to work, it is still union. His former company just called him and back but said "we can't guaratee for how long". Our insurance is now paid for 100%, yes a VERY nice perk, but there is no overtime, he has no vacation time until after 2 years and there is no sick time at all. He works hard, very hard, to provide for our family. I would like to have "37 days off a year", or whatever another forum member wrote. He will not have a vacation this year. However, let me state again we are very grateful he is working. My husband is a hard working man!
Just my two cents that not all union people are lazy looking for free money.

My husband is union employee as well, P&S local 131 out of Hooksett,NH. I am sure you understand that they go where the work is and deal with what is offered. My husbands union is self-insured but managed by Anthem BC/BS A little over $6.00 an hour goes into the insurance fund. If he works 40 hours or he works 80 hours, it comes out of his check period. He is paying for medical benefits for people who have been retired for years. Just the way it works. Hopefully, his time will be compensated in later years through the next generation. Fotunately he is on a job in Devons, Mass right now and working 5 10's and 2 8's. He is away from home,living in a motel but he is working and making the money to bank and float us through the winter. He does not get any paid vacations either. You don't work, you don't get paid. My jusband is a very hard working,educated, dedicated employee as well. My husband is not lazy either. He works and sacrifices his time traveling,hoidays,birrthdays etc. for his family. i am glad someone else on here spoke up and I could add my 2 cents as well. Most people don't understand what a union actually is until you live with it. It is not all perks and benefits. Gotta love the overtime when he works at nuclear power plants for outages. Some people would curl up and die if they knew how much money is paid out! A big fat paycheck for 1 week pays our bills for the month. The rest is banked for the few months he isn't working.

[tis]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

FLL.....you just don't care about the children.......think how many hundreds of children will be saved with the new ladder.I think Meredith should have a helicopter available also.......and what about a fireboat to protect all of the shorline properties?

I LOVE your post samiam. I hear ya'!

[SAMIAM]

Once again,Jeffk nails it.You should be an editorial writer for the Citizen.Just wanted to say that my wife and I pay a whopping $1,600 per month for Anthem Blue Cross.If we were forced to pay for health bennifits for all of our employees it would put us out of business......instantly.No wonder the auto industry is going broke.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

my wife and I pay a whopping $1,600 per month for Anthem Blue Cross.

There are lots of reasons for that. One is the enormous costs of illegal aliens. See here, and here about the cost and health care destruction going on in California. Here's an article on The federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) which is a big cause of this. The American Hospital Association put the illegal alien health care tab at $21 billion several years ago. But in spite of this, there are a lot of people out there who say leave them alone, and actively encourage even more free health care to illegal non-citizens.

That's not the whole story of course -- but it is a significant factor in what we, the U.S. citizens, have to pay. We aren't just paying for our health care -- we're paying for a lot of other people, too.

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Once again,Jeffk nails it.You should be an editorial writer for the Citizen.Just wanted to say that my wife and I pay a whopping $1,600 per month for Anthem Blue Cross.If we were forced to pay for health bennifits for all of our employees it would put us out of business......instantly.No wonder the auto industry is going broke.

Dude......I pay under $300 a month to Anthem Blue Cross. You better check with a local insurance agent to see just what policy you guys are on. Anthem has/had an old policy that they sold to people years ago that was very high. When they changed the system over to purchasing from insurance agents only instead of buying straight from the company those new policies were/are, a lot cheaper.

What they don't do is inform people that purchased the old policies that they are paying at a different, higher rate. It's legal, but unethical IMO. If this is not your situation perhaps you could do what I do and get the high $5,000 deductable policy. It cuts costs. Whatever......your policy sounds too high from what I see on their web-site.

I went the the NH Anthem web-site and punched in a couple: male/female. Age 50s. I did 50s cause I don't know your age. Anyway, with a $5,000 deductable It came up as about $634 per month. About $1000 dollars less a month than you are paying now ! Methinks you have the old policy ??? Either way I would check this out if I were you guys.
________
Getrag

[fatlazyless]

Here's a very simple solution...everyone, including myself...should all be so fortunate to get themself a job working for the Town of Meredith. Working for the town, either in the pending, 30-employee, dept public works union or in a nonunion job like administration or police, you get paid very well, along wih cost-of-living raises, health insurance and dental insurance with no self co-pays, access to the community center gym and high, artificial rock-climbing wall and some other good stuff that I don't know about.

About the only requirement is that you and your spouse show up to the annual March town meeting so you can vote yourself another annual raise. It's basically like the annual town employees party and get together. There is no problem getting employees to the meeting.

In the November presidential elections, Meredith voted McCain 1857, and Obama 1964, for a total of 3821 votes cast. At the March town meeting, held at the end of the meeting at about 11:30pm the vote for the pay raise was probably something like 165 yea, and 88 nay, for a total of 253 votes cast. And, the town meeting vote is initially done by a show of hands.

And the town already has a fire boat but does not have a helicopter... The fire boat is like a twenty year(?) old fiberglass, 28' cabin-utility equipped w/ a pump and hoses, and water power-spray, powered by two, much newer Suzuki four-stroke outboards, and kept moored and ready to go, close to Bear Island. It has a flashing red light on top. and volunteer firefighters who train and train and train to use it.

[SAMIAM]

Thanks for the tip.Irish mist....will definately check it out.And,FLL forgot something.Don't town employees get something like 75% of their pay for lifetime retirement as well as paid health and dental? Lets all work a little harder....they'll probably be voting themselves a new raise next year.

[momof3]

Just to add another two cents, if I may....Again we really appreciate the huge perk of the health insurance through the union, trust me when i say I knwo how lucky we are, however; please know that I work part time at a non-profit,non-union company, all full time employess that work there get full health and dental 100% company paid. There are some companies that sill offer this without a union being involved.

[Sunrise Point]

I agree with Bilproject that it is possible that when people decide to unionize, it is possibly because "management has not met their needs". After being home for 19 years raising a family and volunteering in the local schools, I began to work (for $$$, what a concept!) in the local school system. I love the students, the teachers and my schedule.

My favorite saying to my first boss was "don't tell the union" whenever something unusual was required. I had the best job ever, I learned basic taxidermy, how to solder wiring, operate a drill press, table saw, band saw and even drove a tractor with a "brush-hog" to clear an overgrown field. None of this would have been possible with a "that's not my job" attitude. I am grateful for all of the things that I learned.

Due to budget cuts, my original job was cut 1-1/2 years ago. I applied for other available jobs within the system. I ended up working in the high school library (the director remembered me from my volunteering years) and even though it doesn't involve wiring, saws or drills, it has been a teriffic job. I now work with students, computers and processing books What do I do? I am a secretary.

Last spring, more budget cuts were announced. Two secretarial positions were to be eliminated at the high school, and all secretaries would become part of a "pool" and be assigned jobs accordingly. There would be no more departmental secretaries. The town paid somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000 for a "study" to tell them how jobs should be classified, what rates to pay people, etc.

I lost all faith in the current administration and joined the union. Will I "dog it" if the union tells me to? NO! I would not do that to the students and my co-workers, but I felt that I had to protect myself and any hope of retirement in the next 5 - 10 years.

I wish it wasn't so.....and I'm a taxpayer too.

[fatlazyless]

www.fentonfire.com, located in Hudson, Quibec, has a whole section full of used aerial tower fire trucks. Why not save the town $675,000 and get a good used one for like $50,000. How many New Hampshire towns go out and purchase a brand new $725,000 aerial tower, when there's used ones available. Fire trucks are typically very well maintained....diesel engines last a very long time when maintained.

I drive a 1999 Ford Contour that cost me $1500, and it runs terrific....even the ac works good. The Meredith Fire dept needs a $725,000 fire truck.....may God or somebody out there please save the poor Meredith property tax payer! Most all small towns buy used truck equipment and let the big cities with the real busy fire depts spend the big bucks.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... Most all small towns buy used truck equipment

Change 'Most' to 'Many' and we might be a little closer to reality.

[Woodsy]

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

Yes, but FLL is never one to let facts get in the way of a good thread hijack or rant

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

Woodsy,

Perhaps if you buy a used piece of fire apparatus from NYC it will be worn out- but if you buy something 10 years old or less from a suburb that needed to go higher, it is certainly an option. I will go out on a limb and say the only departments in a town like Meredith that wear out vehicles are the PD and DPW.

Back when I was a contractor, I used to love buying retired street sweepers from state auctions. Where else could I buy a 125K machine for 5K, spend 2-5K replacing some parts and painting, then put it out for 2 months a year for 60K in revenue! What a country.

[Woodsy]

VitaBene...

While it might sound like a good idea... there is a huge difference between a streetsweeper (non-critical capital equipment) and a fire truck (life-critical capital equipment)! Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone dies because the used firetruck the town bought broke down at a critical time?

Fire trucks may look excellent on the outside but be completely worn out internally.... the high pressure pumps and plumbing start to fail, the tanks rust out, the suspension is shot etc etc. All of these are BIG $$$ repairs with very little return on the repair investment.

Most cities and towns here in the US are very budget minded. Due to the high cost of purchasing a new fire truck, the only time a capital piece of fire equipment gets traded is usually when it is completely worn out. Very very rarely does a city or town just trade in a perfectly good fire truck for an upgrade. In fact due to budget constraints alot of the preventative maintenance that would extend the life of a fire truck is skipped altogether, hastening its replacement. Definitely a pennywise and pound foolish way of doing things, but most cities & towns use the "If ain't broke, don't fix it" axiom.

I dont know if Meredith really needed a $750K Aerial Ladder or not, thats for the townsfolk to decide. No doubt for $750K it was optioned up. If I were a Meredith resident, I would be looking to see if the fire dept/seletmen pursued any federal grants or monies available to help mitigate the cost.

Woodsy