Meredith considers going union

momof3 · 12-07-2008, 10:37 AM

Just to add another two cents, if I may....Again we really appreciate the huge perk of the health insurance through the union, trust me when i say I knwo how lucky we are, however; please know that I work part time at a non-profit,non-union company, all full time employess that work there get full health and dental 100% company paid. There are some companies that sill offer this without a union being involved.

Sunrise Point · 12-07-2008, 07:48 PM

I agree with Bilproject that it is possible that when people decide to unionize, it is possibly because "management has not met their needs". After being home for 19 years raising a family and volunteering in the local schools, I began to work (for $$$, what a concept!) in the local school system. I love the students, the teachers and my schedule.

My favorite saying to my first boss was "don't tell the union" whenever something unusual was required. I had the best job ever, I learned basic taxidermy, how to solder wiring, operate a drill press, table saw, band saw and even drove a tractor with a "brush-hog" to clear an overgrown field. None of this would have been possible with a "that's not my job" attitude. I am grateful for all of the things that I learned.

Due to budget cuts, my original job was cut 1-1/2 years ago. I applied for other available jobs within the system. I ended up working in the high school library (the director remembered me from my volunteering years) and even though it doesn't involve wiring, saws or drills, it has been a teriffic job. I now work with students, computers and processing books What do I do? I am a secretary.

Last spring, more budget cuts were announced. Two secretarial positions were to be eliminated at the high school, and all secretaries would become part of a "pool" and be assigned jobs accordingly. There would be no more departmental secretaries. The town paid somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000 for a "study" to tell them how jobs should be classified, what rates to pay people, etc.

I lost all faith in the current administration and joined the union. Will I "dog it" if the union tells me to? NO! I would not do that to the students and my co-workers, but I felt that I had to protect myself and any hope of retirement in the next 5 - 10 years.

I wish it wasn't so.....and I'm a taxpayer too.

fatlazyless · 12-07-2008, 08:05 PM

www.fentonfire.com, located in Hudson, Quibec, has a whole section full of used aerial tower fire trucks. Why not save the town $675,000 and get a good used one for like $50,000. How many New Hampshire towns go out and purchase a brand new $725,000 aerial tower, when there's used ones available. Fire trucks are typically very well maintained....diesel engines last a very long time when maintained.

I drive a 1999 Ford Contour that cost me $1500, and it runs terrific....even the ac works good. The Meredith Fire dept needs a $725,000 fire truck.....may God or somebody out there please save the poor Meredith property tax payer! Most all small towns buy used truck equipment and let the big cities with the real busy fire depts spend the big bucks.

wifi · 12-07-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... Most all small towns buy used truck equipment

Change 'Most' to 'Many' and we might be a little closer to reality.

Woodsy · 12-08-2008, 08:41 AM

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

brk-lnt · 12-08-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

Yes, but FLL is never one to let facts get in the way of a good thread hijack or rant

VitaBene · 12-10-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

FLL...

There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out!

Woodsy,

Perhaps if you buy a used piece of fire apparatus from NYC it will be worn out- but if you buy something 10 years old or less from a suburb that needed to go higher, it is certainly an option. I will go out on a limb and say the only departments in a town like Meredith that wear out vehicles are the PD and DPW.

Back when I was a contractor, I used to love buying retired street sweepers from state auctions. Where else could I buy a 125K machine for 5K, spend 2-5K replacing some parts and painting, then put it out for 2 months a year for 60K in revenue! What a country.

Woodsy · 12-10-2008, 02:20 PM

VitaBene...

While it might sound like a good idea... there is a huge difference between a streetsweeper (non-critical capital equipment) and a fire truck (life-critical capital equipment)! Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone dies because the used firetruck the town bought broke down at a critical time?

Fire trucks may look excellent on the outside but be completely worn out internally.... the high pressure pumps and plumbing start to fail, the tanks rust out, the suspension is shot etc etc. All of these are BIG $$$ repairs with very little return on the repair investment.

Most cities and towns here in the US are very budget minded. Due to the high cost of purchasing a new fire truck, the only time a capital piece of fire equipment gets traded is usually when it is completely worn out. Very very rarely does a city or town just trade in a perfectly good fire truck for an upgrade. In fact due to budget constraints alot of the preventative maintenance that would extend the life of a fire truck is skipped altogether, hastening its replacement. Definitely a pennywise and pound foolish way of doing things, but most cities & towns use the "If ain't broke, don't fix it" axiom.

I dont know if Meredith really needed a $750K Aerial Ladder or not, thats for the townsfolk to decide. No doubt for $750K it was optioned up. If I were a Meredith resident, I would be looking to see if the fire dept/seletmen pursued any federal grants or monies available to help mitigate the cost.

Woodsy

VitaBene · 12-10-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

VitaBene...

While it might sound like a good idea... there is a huge difference between a streetsweeper (non-critical capital equipment) and a fire truck (life-critical capital equipment)! Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone dies because the used firetruck the town bought broke down at a critical time?

Fire trucks may look excellent on the outside but be completely worn out internally.... the high pressure pumps and plumbing start to fail, the tanks rust out, the suspension is shot etc etc. All of these are BIG $$$ repairs with very little return on the repair investment.

Most cities and towns here in the US are very budget minded. Due to the high cost of purchasing a new fire truck, the only time a capital piece of fire equipment gets traded is usually when it is completely worn out. Very very rarely does a city or town just trade in a perfectly good fire truck for an upgrade. In fact due to budget constraints alot of the preventative maintenance that would extend the life of a fire truck is skipped altogether, hastening its replacement. Definitely a pennywise and pound foolish way of doing things, but most cities & towns use the "If ain't broke, don't fix it" axiom.

I dont know if Meredith really needed a $750K Aerial Ladder or not, thats for the townsfolk to decide. No doubt for $750K it was optioned up. If I were a Meredith resident, I would be looking to see if the fire dept/seletmen pursued any federal grants or monies available to help mitigate the cost.

Woodsy

Woodsy, you make good points- thanks! I think you hit on the correct issue- the need for the rig. I don't know- I am in Moultonborough. It just seems like a lot of $$ for Meredith to spend on a very limited duty item.

fatlazyless · 12-10-2008, 06:13 PM

Spending other people's money.....Meredith, NH....off the top of my head.....in the last six years....Meredith has built.....first, a 4.5 million dollar community center......second, a 2.5 million dollar police station....and third, from March -December 2008, a 2.2 million dollar fire station, major enlargement.

Considering that the brand new fire station created a couple of new, large, garage bays, purchasing a new large aerial tower was probably a 'quid pro quo' for the four out of five selectmen who unanimously voted for it in September, 2008.

Do you think there was any chance that they even took a look at a used vehicle like at www.fentonfire.com, located in Quibec, when considering their $725,000 new, built-to-order purchase from www.piercemfg.com in Wisconsin?

All the expensive buildings were voted on by the town at the late night, March town meeting by about 300 residents by show of hands (175yea-125nay) which is about eight percent of the number of voters that showed up for the all-day, 7am-7pm, presidential ballot voting (1857 McCain - 1964 Obama) for a total of 3821.

Like, so whatever happened to our reasonable right to vote, right here in Meredith, NH?

wifi · 12-10-2008, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....Whatever happened to our reasonable right to vote, right here in Meredith, NH?

All one needed to do was to attend the meeting and vote against it. Some of this group didn't even have to work the next day

brk-lnt · 12-10-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Spending other people's money.....Meredith, NH....off the top of my head.....in the last six years....Meredith has built.....first, a 4.5 million dollar community center......second, a 2.5 million dollar police station....and third, from March -December 2008, a 2.2 million dollar fire station, major enlargement.

Considering that the brand new fire station created a couple of new, large, garage bays, purchasing a new large aerial tower was probably a 'quid pro quo' for the four out of five selectmen who unanimously voted for it in September, 2008.

Do you think there was any chance that they even took a look at a used vehicle like at www.fentonfire.com, located in Quibec, when considering their $725,000 new, built-to-order purchase from www.piercemfg.com in Wisconsin?

All the expensive buildings were voted on by the town at the late night, March town meeting by about 300 residents by show of hands (175yea-125nay) which is about eight percent of the number of voters that showed up for the all-day, 7am-7pm, presidential ballot voting (1857 McCain - 1964 Obama) for a total of 3821.

Like, so whatever happened to our reasonable right to vote, right here in Meredith, NH?

Dude, seriously, you need a hobby.

Pineedles · 12-10-2008, 07:57 PM

Wi-Fi and BrK-Int, I think you need to cut FLL a little slack. Are either of you Meredith residents. I work mostly 9-9 as a business owner and I like to stay on top of what my town council is voting on, but sometimes it is not possible. Here in our town, there is a general election vote on any issue costing the town more than a million $$. If Meredith's town meeting can pass on issues like the above perhaps the electorate should push for a change to the town charter to require a general election vote?

SAMIAM · 12-10-2008, 08:15 PM

I don't always agree with FLL....but he's right about this issue.Small towns simply stack late night town meetings with those people with special interests.They vote more and more for themselves.....at taxpayers expense.

brk-lnt · 12-11-2008, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Wi-Fi and BrK-Int, I think you need to cut FLL a little slack.

While the city might possibly have been able to shave a few thousand dollars off of the aerial truck purchase, I can pretty much guarantee that they could not have substituted a $75,000 used vehicle for a $725,000 new vehicle. To continuously suggest that such an option was even a remotely logical possibility is just silly.

wifi · 12-11-2008, 07:03 AM

Didn't the town meeting on his happen last March?

Yes, I can agree that a town meeting can't be scheduled to be convenient for everyone. SB2 helps to address it. This is where the drum beat should be, not on the constant whining of an event 8 months ago.

fatlazyless · 12-11-2008, 08:36 AM

The vote for the aerial tower fire truck took place in September 2008 at a selectman's regular, monthly meeting. Four out of five selectman voted yes, and the fifth was not present to vote because he was on a motorcycle vacation in Indiana. Had he been there, he too would probably have voted yes with both hands.

The Laconia Daily Sun has pretty detailed news reports, and that's where I get my info, mostly.

All three buildings, community center, police & fire, were voted yes by a show of voter hands at the annual March town meeting. After a show of hands, someone always asks for a hand count, just for the record.

jeffk · 12-11-2008, 12:41 PM

...of your own thread FLL. Unions to firetrucks and all things town government. Very smooth. All we need is a few Judd Gregg comments and we are all set.

fatlazyless · 12-11-2008, 06:39 PM

Hey JeffK,,,the NH Labor Relations Board in Concord heard, about one week ago, the presentations from the two groups; the 30 employees of the Meredith Dept Public Works and their S.W.I.U. representative and the town management and their attorneys. The state board has up to 90 days to think it over before issuing its' decision with regard to the possible start-up of a new labor union representation.

About 15000 State of NH employees belong to a union while about 5000 do not. I do not know if the state's most visible employees, the NH State Police belong to a union? Next time I get stopped for a driving violation, I'll ask the trooper if they have a union and if it's a good thing or not.

wifi · 12-11-2008, 06:50 PM

I must say, this last post got me laughing out loud

Now, what is the definition of a non sequitur again ? ....

12-07-2008, 10:37 AM	#1
momof3 Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Methuen, Mass Posts: 25 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	health insurance Just to add another two cents, if I may....Again we really appreciate the huge perk of the health insurance through the union, trust me when i say I knwo how lucky we are, however; please know that I work part time at a non-profit,non-union company, all full time employess that work there get full health and dental 100% company paid. There are some companies that sill offer this without a union being involved.

12-07-2008, 07:48 PM	#2
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	I wish it wasn't so.... I agree with Bilproject that it is possible that when people decide to unionize, it is possibly because "management has not met their needs". After being home for 19 years raising a family and volunteering in the local schools, I began to work (for $$$, what a concept!) in the local school system. I love the students, the teachers and my schedule. My favorite saying to my first boss was "don't tell the union" whenever something unusual was required. I had the best job ever, I learned basic taxidermy, how to solder wiring, operate a drill press, table saw, band saw and even drove a tractor with a "brush-hog" to clear an overgrown field. None of this would have been possible with a "that's not my job" attitude. I am grateful for all of the things that I learned. Due to budget cuts, my original job was cut 1-1/2 years ago. I applied for other available jobs within the system. I ended up working in the high school library (the director remembered me from my volunteering years) and even though it doesn't involve wiring, saws or drills, it has been a teriffic job. I now work with students, computers and processing books What do I do? I am a secretary. Last spring, more budget cuts were announced. Two secretarial positions were to be eliminated at the high school, and all secretaries would become part of a "pool" and be assigned jobs accordingly. There would be no more departmental secretaries. The town paid somewhere between $30,000 and $50,000 for a "study" to tell them how jobs should be classified, what rates to pay people, etc. I lost all faith in the current administration and joined the union. Will I "dog it" if the union tells me to? NO! I would not do that to the students and my co-workers, but I felt that I had to protect myself and any hope of retirement in the next 5 - 10 years. I wish it wasn't so.....and I'm a taxpayer too.

12-07-2008, 08:05 PM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	www.fentonfire.com, located in Hudson, Quibec, has a whole section full of used aerial tower fire trucks. Why not save the town $675,000 and get a good used one for like $50,000. How many New Hampshire towns go out and purchase a brand new $725,000 aerial tower, when there's used ones available. Fire trucks are typically very well maintained....diesel engines last a very long time when maintained. I drive a 1999 Ford Contour that cost me $1500, and it runs terrific....even the ac works good. The Meredith Fire dept needs a $725,000 fire truck.....may God or somebody out there please save the poor Meredith property tax payer! Most all small towns buy used truck equipment and let the big cities with the real busy fire depts spend the big bucks. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-08-2008, 08:41 AM	#5
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 979 Times in 440 Posts	FLL... There is usally a reason towns trade in and usually dont buy used fire equipment.... because its worn out! __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

12-10-2008, 02:20 PM	#8
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,965 Thanks: 80 Thanked 979 Times in 440 Posts	VitaBene... While it might sound like a good idea... there is a huge difference between a streetsweeper (non-critical capital equipment) and a fire truck (life-critical capital equipment)! Can you imagine the lawsuit if someone dies because the used firetruck the town bought broke down at a critical time? Fire trucks may look excellent on the outside but be completely worn out internally.... the high pressure pumps and plumbing start to fail, the tanks rust out, the suspension is shot etc etc. All of these are BIG $$$ repairs with very little return on the repair investment. Most cities and towns here in the US are very budget minded. Due to the high cost of purchasing a new fire truck, the only time a capital piece of fire equipment gets traded is usually when it is completely worn out. Very very rarely does a city or town just trade in a perfectly good fire truck for an upgrade. In fact due to budget constraints alot of the preventative maintenance that would extend the life of a fire truck is skipped altogether, hastening its replacement. Definitely a pennywise and pound foolish way of doing things, but most cities & towns use the "If ain't broke, don't fix it" axiom. I dont know if Meredith really needed a $750K Aerial Ladder or not, thats for the townsfolk to decide. No doubt for $750K it was optioned up. If I were a Meredith resident, I would be looking to see if the fire dept/seletmen pursued any federal grants or monies available to help mitigate the cost. Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

12-10-2008, 06:13 PM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Spending other people's money.....Meredith, NH....off the top of my head.....in the last six years....Meredith has built.....first, a 4.5 million dollar community center......second, a 2.5 million dollar police station....and third, from March -December 2008, a 2.2 million dollar fire station, major enlargement. Considering that the brand new fire station created a couple of new, large, garage bays, purchasing a new large aerial tower was probably a 'quid pro quo' for the four out of five selectmen who unanimously voted for it in September, 2008. Do you think there was any chance that they even took a look at a used vehicle like at www.fentonfire.com, located in Quibec, when considering their $725,000 new, built-to-order purchase from www.piercemfg.com in Wisconsin? All the expensive buildings were voted on by the town at the late night, March town meeting by about 300 residents by show of hands (175yea-125nay) which is about eight percent of the number of voters that showed up for the all-day, 7am-7pm, presidential ballot voting (1857 McCain - 1964 Obama) for a total of 3821. Like, so whatever happened to our reasonable right to vote, right here in Meredith, NH? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-10-2008 at 07:14 PM.

12-10-2008, 07:57 PM	#13
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,542 Thanks: 1,071 Thanked 667 Times in 366 Posts	Wi-Fi and BrK-Int, I think you need to cut FLL a little slack. Are either of you Meredith residents. I work mostly 9-9 as a business owner and I like to stay on top of what my town council is voting on, but sometimes it is not possible. Here in our town, there is a general election vote on any issue costing the town more than a million $$. If Meredith's town meeting can pass on issues like the above perhaps the electorate should push for a change to the town charter to require a general election vote?

12-10-2008, 08:15 PM	#14
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,891 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,673 Times in 584 Posts	I don't always agree with FLL....but he's right about this issue.Small towns simply stack late night town meetings with those people with special interests.They vote more and more for themselves.....at taxpayers expense.

12-11-2008, 07:03 AM	#16
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	Didn't the town meeting on his happen last March? Yes, I can agree that a town meeting can't be scheduled to be convenient for everyone. SB2 helps to address it. This is where the drum beat should be, not on the constant whining of an event 8 months ago.

12-11-2008, 08:36 AM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	The vote for the aerial tower fire truck took place in September 2008 at a selectman's regular, monthly meeting. Four out of five selectman voted yes, and the fifth was not present to vote because he was on a motorcycle vacation in Indiana. Had he been there, he too would probably have voted yes with both hands. The Laconia Daily Sun has pretty detailed news reports, and that's where I get my info, mostly. All three buildings, community center, police & fire, were voted yes by a show of voter hands at the annual March town meeting. After a show of hands, someone always asks for a hand count, just for the record. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-11-2008 at 06:27 PM.

12-11-2008, 12:41 PM	#18
jeffk Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Center Harbor Posts: 1,165 Thanks: 205 Thanked 432 Times in 249 Posts	Successful Hijack... ...of your own thread FLL. Unions to firetrucks and all things town government. Very smooth. All we need is a few Judd Gregg comments and we are all set.

12-11-2008, 06:39 PM	#19
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	Hey JeffK,,,the NH Labor Relations Board in Concord heard, about one week ago, the presentations from the two groups; the 30 employees of the Meredith Dept Public Works and their S.W.I.U. representative and the town management and their attorneys. The state board has up to 90 days to think it over before issuing its' decision with regard to the possible start-up of a new labor union representation. About 15000 State of NH employees belong to a union while about 5000 do not. I do not know if the state's most visible employees, the NH State Police belong to a union? Next time I get stopped for a driving violation, I'll ask the trooper if they have a union and if it's a good thing or not. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

12-11-2008, 06:50 PM	#20
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	I must say, this last post got me laughing out loud Now, what is the definition of a non sequitur again ? ....