Bubbler .vs. Circulator

Webbsatwinni · 01-20-2009, 09:08 AM

When we arrived at Rattlesnake we noticed that our bubbler was not working and the ice around the dock was thick. The timer and temp control was working and with the silence of the lake, we could hear the bubbler below the ice.

We cut a hole in the ice where we thought we placed the bubber (the ice near the dock was 9+ inches) and found that the plastic fins on the prop were sheared off. We were able to get a new one from water mark and fixed it and now the ice is wearing away.

When we drove around Rattlesnake, we did make an observation. Although there were many docks with thin ice signs, only a few had open water, the rest looked as solid as ours did. Do most people come back (or have a service do it) towards the end of winter and start the bubblers to save power or is there a larger issue that may be caused by debris or the electrical issues that island experienced (or is still experiencing)?

Being new to the bubbler thing (last year) we were told to set it when we left and let it run for the winter.

I guess my concern is for those who left their bubblers set in October and assumed that they are working away, to me, that did not seem to be the case.

DRH · 01-20-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

When we arrived at Rattlesnake we noticed that our bubbler was not working and the ice around the dock was thick. The timer and temp control was working and with the silence of the lake, we could hear the bubbler below the ice.

We cut a hole in the ice where we thought we placed the bubber (the ice near the dock was 9+ inches) and found that the plastic fins on the prop were sheared off. We were able to get a new one from water mark and fixed it and now the ice is wearing away.

When we drove around Rattlesnake, we did make an observation. Although there were many docks with thin ice signs, only a few had open water, the rest looked as solid as ours did. Do most people come back (or have a service do it) towards the end of winter and start the bubblers to save power or is there a larger issue that may be caused by debris or the electrical issues that island experienced (or is still experiencing)?

Being new to the bubbler thing (last year) we were told to set it when we left and let it run for the winter.

I guess my concern is for those who left their bubblers set in October and assumed that they are working away, to me, that did not seem to be the case.

Webbsatwinni - I can tell you from our own experience this winter that the bitterly cold stretch of weather we've had, coupled with the high winds, have made it a challenge for us to keep open water around our dock even with a circulator going 24 hours a day! I've had to go down to the dock a number of times with a long, strong pole and whack at the ice that has formed even where there is good water circulation. It seems that the water temp even 4 - 5 feet down (where our circulator prop is) is so close to 32 degrees that the bitterly cold air temp. and wind have been able to flash-freeze the surface of the water even though it has been in motion. We've even had a frozen dome of ice that has formed directly over the circulator. I think without my whacking the ice with the pole on a number of occasions, our dock would have probably frozen in too. Even with the manual whacking of the ice, the area of open water at our dock is the smallest we've ever seen in our 15 winters at the lake.

One other factor that may be affecting Rattlesnake is the length of time the power was out after the ice storm several weeks ago. Days without power no doubt let the ice grow fairly thick where circulators/bubblers weren't able to run.

Any idea what caused the prop. blades on your circulator to shear off?

Webbsatwinni · 01-20-2009, 11:20 AM

Thanks DRH,

I poked around in the area of the bubbler and did not find any debris near it. Both fins were gone and the bubbler was working properly, but without fins.......

The other thing that we noticed was that with the low lake level, the ice is directly over the bubbler, I am wondering if that when the power did come back on, was there ice that was broken up and became lodged in the blades causing the issue.

We were able to get it running and hope by the next time we go up it chews up some of the ice that formed. I wanted to point this out to others that if they are counting on their bubblers this year, they may want to have it checked.

I was amazed at the amount of ice that was on our dock and posts. Looks like it was from repeated spraying over the breakwater. On the dock posts, they are covered with 6+ inches of ice on the NW facing side.

Webbsatwinni · 01-20-2009, 12:00 PM

This is the ice buildup on the north side of all dock posts. The ice built a solid wall from the dock to the lake level that is 6+ inches thick.

Mink Islander · 01-20-2009, 01:34 PM

While power wasn't off long on Mink Island, power surges did trip my breaker for the circuit the ice eaters are on. Now running both units 24/7 until next weekend hoping it will open things up a bit. For what it's worth, neither of the other two docks near me with active ice eaters were creating anywhere near the level of open water they usually do.

ApS · 01-20-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRH

"...Any idea what caused the prop. blades on your circulator to shear off...?"

The Winnipesaukee Aquatherm guy puts out a lot of circulators, so when he says it's debris, I listen. It's a good idea to carry trimmed-brush debris away from the shoreline.

I note that he places the circulators relatively deeply. In April, they still churn the water strongly, but don't make any splashing noises at the surface—unlike some of my neighbors' circulators.

Winnipesaukee Aquatherm: (603) 875-3864.

Massasauga · 01-20-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

We cut a hole in the ice where we thought we placed the bubber (the ice near the dock was 9+ inches) and found that the plastic fins on the prop were sheared off. We were able to get a new one from water mark and fixed it and now the ice is wearing away.

I probably have the same circulator (basically a well pump mounted on a metal frame with a plastic prop on it)... I find I need to replace this prop most every year to the tune of about $20. The prop often just disintegrates from the pressure of just turning the unit on for the first time each season.

Webbsatwinni · 01-20-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massasauga

I find I need to replace this prop most every year to the tune of about $20. The prop often just disintegrates from the pressure of just turning the unit on for the first time each season.

We did, when we bought it they told us to replace it every year, so it was a new one in October.

Thanks

codeman671 · 01-20-2009, 09:55 PM

We run 2 circulators on timers and thermostats. Since I got rid of the airboat I don't make too many winter trips out so we pay ISS to monitor them for us. I am still on my original set of fins on both and have not lost one yet in the last 4 seasons, although we keep 2 on hand just in case.

I may try to borrow a sled in the next week or two to take a ride out for myself just to check.

TiltonBB · 01-20-2009, 11:13 PM

Watermark's circulators came with a plastic prop. Mine went bad the second year. Now they have a replacement metal prop. that works much better. If you are still using the plastic one you might think about a replacement.

Lakepilot · 01-21-2009, 08:24 AM

We had a bubbler until 5 or 6 years ago when it got caught under one of the dock posts and was destroyed. I tried to buy a new one but was told they don't sell them anymore since they contain lead as a weight.

We bought a circulator from Bradleys in Wolfeboro at that time. It has a plastic prop and it's still going strong. The prop looks new.

Webbsatwinni · 01-21-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Watermark's circulators came with a plastic prop. Mine went bad the second year. Now they have a replacement metal prop. that works much better. If you are still using the plastic one you might think about a replacement.

TiltonBB,

We looked at the metal prop and choose to stay with the plastic. We were told that the plastic was meant to shear off if hit by debris where it may get lodged in the metal one and burn out the motor.

That said, we went with Metal when we fixed it this weekend.

camp guy · 01-21-2009, 03:10 PM

I live off the water at this time, but I, too, struggled with the question of what to use, and I did, in fact, try both over time. This thread comes up each winter, and the usual comments are made, and, as has been the case in the past, the comment is made that it isn't so much during the winter that problems occur, it is when the ice breaks up and 'goes out'. Well, this is true, but it is also true that during the winter there can be major problems. I had to completely redo my pilings because the ice had formed tightly around them and due to some shifting (I can't explain the technical process) of the HUGE ice plate the pilings were actually lifted up and left the decking totally askew. In the spring, when the ice was breaking up, both my wife and I spent hours out on the dock with long poles (think pieces of strapping) pushing the ice aside so as to miss our dock during is travel. The wind is critical to the survival of your dock during ice out. It doesn't take much wind to create a large amount of momentum which can easily damage a dock.

ApS · 01-22-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy

"...I had to completely redo my pilings because the ice had formed tightly around them..."

The dock pictured below is fairly new—certainly far newer than my 25-year-old piling dock that I've had to repair about every other Spring.

This new one has a breakwater made of boulders facing the worst of the wind-pushed ice floes.

I've long admired the "bulletproof" appearance of supports embedded in the boulders of the breakwater; however, one side has broken off, most likely during last winter's ravages. (It could also have been due to a bad location of a wood-knot in the beam).

In years past, we spoke of temporary docks and permanent docks. I'm now convinced there is no such thing as a "permanent" dock....

Orion · 01-21-2009, 03:12 PM

Just checked the condition of our circulator action yesterday. The time is set to 12 hrs on and 12 hrs off with a 32-40 degree thermostat in-line. It looks like it was keeping the 12' wide x 25' long area between the fingers of the U-dock clear, with some clearing outside the fingers, but the frigid temps last week caused a partial freezover of thin ice. When the temps get back to "normal" it should re-clear. So, I left the timer as-is for now.

01-20-2009, 09:08 AM	#1
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Yesterday's observation When we arrived at Rattlesnake we noticed that our bubbler was not working and the ice around the dock was thick. The timer and temp control was working and with the silence of the lake, we could hear the bubbler below the ice. We cut a hole in the ice where we thought we placed the bubber (the ice near the dock was 9+ inches) and found that the plastic fins on the prop were sheared off. We were able to get a new one from water mark and fixed it and now the ice is wearing away. When we drove around Rattlesnake, we did make an observation. Although there were many docks with thin ice signs, only a few had open water, the rest looked as solid as ours did. Do most people come back (or have a service do it) towards the end of winter and start the bubblers to save power or is there a larger issue that may be caused by debris or the electrical issues that island experienced (or is still experiencing)? Being new to the bubbler thing (last year) we were told to set it when we left and let it run for the winter. I guess my concern is for those who left their bubblers set in October and assumed that they are working away, to me, that did not seem to be the case.

01-20-2009, 12:00 PM	#4
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	This is the ice buildup on the north side of all dock posts. The ice built a solid wall from the dock to the lake level that is 6+ inches thick. Attached Images

01-20-2009, 01:34 PM	#5
Mink Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 753 Thanks: 59 Thanked 271 Times in 129 Posts	Ice Eaters While power wasn't off long on Mink Island, power surges did trip my breaker for the circuit the ice eaters are on. Now running both units 24/7 until next weekend hoping it will open things up a bit. For what it's worth, neither of the other two docks near me with active ice eaters were creating anywhere near the level of open water they usually do.

01-20-2009, 11:13 PM	#10
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,029 Thanks: 708 Thanked 2,209 Times in 941 Posts	Circulator Propellors Watermark's circulators came with a plastic prop. Mine went bad the second year. Now they have a replacement metal prop. that works much better. If you are still using the plastic one you might think about a replacement.

01-21-2009, 03:10 PM	#13
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,193 Thanks: 303 Thanked 529 Times in 296 Posts	Bubbler vs circulator I live off the water at this time, but I, too, struggled with the question of what to use, and I did, in fact, try both over time. This thread comes up each winter, and the usual comments are made, and, as has been the case in the past, the comment is made that it isn't so much during the winter that problems occur, it is when the ice breaks up and 'goes out'. Well, this is true, but it is also true that during the winter there can be major problems. I had to completely redo my pilings because the ice had formed tightly around them and due to some shifting (I can't explain the technical process) of the HUGE ice plate the pilings were actually lifted up and left the decking totally askew. In the spring, when the ice was breaking up, both my wife and I spent hours out on the dock with long poles (think pieces of strapping) pushing the ice aside so as to miss our dock during is travel. The wind is critical to the survival of your dock during ice out. It doesn't take much wind to create a large amount of momentum which can easily damage a dock.

01-20-2009, 11:20 AM	#3
Webbsatwinni Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Lebanon Ct and Rattlesnake Island Since 2007 Posts: 610 Thanks: 180 Thanked 137 Times in 72 Posts	Thanks DRH, I poked around in the area of the bubbler and did not find any debris near it. Both fins were gone and the bubbler was working properly, but without fins....... The other thing that we noticed was that with the low lake level, the ice is directly over the bubbler, I am wondering if that when the power did come back on, was there ice that was broken up and became lodged in the blades causing the issue. We were able to get it running and hope by the next time we go up it chews up some of the ice that formed. I wanted to point this out to others that if they are counting on their bubblers this year, they may want to have it checked. I was amazed at the amount of ice that was on our dock and posts. Looks like it was from repeated spraying over the breakwater. On the dock posts, they are covered with 6+ inches of ice on the NW facing side.

01-20-2009, 09:55 PM	#9
codeman671 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,515 Thanks: 221 Thanked 821 Times in 493 Posts	We run 2 circulators on timers and thermostats. Since I got rid of the airboat I don't make too many winter trips out so we pay ISS to monitor them for us. I am still on my original set of fins on both and have not lost one yet in the last 4 seasons, although we keep 2 on hand just in case. I may try to borrow a sled in the next week or two to take a ride out for myself just to check.

01-21-2009, 08:24 AM	#11
Lakepilot Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 446 Thanks: 70 Thanked 57 Times in 40 Posts	We had a bubbler until 5 or 6 years ago when it got caught under one of the dock posts and was destroyed. I tried to buy a new one but was told they don't sell them anymore since they contain lead as a weight. We bought a circulator from Bradleys in Wolfeboro at that time. It has a plastic prop and it's still going strong. The prop looks new.

01-21-2009, 03:12 PM	#15
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	timer and thermostat Just checked the condition of our circulator action yesterday. The time is set to 12 hrs on and 12 hrs off with a 32-40 degree thermostat in-line. It looks like it was keeping the 12' wide x 25' long area between the fingers of the U-dock clear, with some clearing outside the fingers, but the frigid temps last week caused a partial freezover of thin ice. When the temps get back to "normal" it should re-clear. So, I left the timer as-is for now.