Ames Farm

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

How about Ames checking their income tax records for receipts from the public for fees to launch their boats and stor their trailers.

Good one, provided the income was declared.

Or how about Ames producing their old books, ledgers and journals from 1962 and earlier, if they can be found, and they can denote the claimed entries of income earned from the questioned endeavors?

Of course, if Ames pocketed the fees and didn't declare the income (heck, isn't that one reason many people want to have their own business, to deny the devil his due? It is sooooo tempting not to report untraceable income) that won't work.

Or Ames could secure the testimony of former coworkers who are unreleated to the Ames family on the issues in question; surely the once young waitresses, maids and helpers should be able to shed some light on this.

Or perhaps the testimony of contractors who helped Ames construct any claimed improvements can be adduced?

It would be best though to produce receipts of boat storage or launch fees (and photos) from day users, pre-1962: that would be definitive.

_____________

"All I want is the truth, just give me some truth>" : John Lennon

[topwater]

Or they can sell to a Large Hotel chain like (Marriott) or (Sheraton) that has oodles and oodles of money, And they can build a large Hotel Resort for the vacationers, Lot of screaming kids to bother all neighbors, loud boats, Parties down at the beach going to all hours, Bonfires till 2 in the morning. Let the Big Boys fight Gilford, they have enough money and lawyers to bury Gilford with 100's of thousands of dollars in paperwork and court appearances, Gilford will lose so much money it would be laughable. Yes they would get higher Taxes out of them, but then,they would have to because it cost them millions to lose.
Just one scenario, but I'm sure the Ames Family has thought about it.

[eyenotall777]

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

I doubt it: I don't think the property is deep enough.

Most likely a rich guy would buy it and build a huge dream home, or it would be broken into lots and several high end houses would be built.

Neither option is unattractive.

I sort of feel sorry for Ames Farm: it's an anachronism, a vestige of a bygone era.

My prediction: they'll sell when the economy picks up, and who could blame them?

Keep up, or get out of the way.

[snowbird]

One reason NH has not built a public ramp, like at Squam, is that the authorities considered the 17 [about] working ramps to be adequate, even though many more ramps could be supported based on the big lake's size. Perhaps someone should be asking the State about this. Furthermore, the Town of Gilford is denying access to the State's waters.

Perhaps NH could buy the Ames property. There is no question the State's formula for reasonable access has been curtailed by the Town's action. And it seems the threat of a lawsuit sent them for cover. But in this day and age, if enough money is made available, the serious threat of a countersuit might work. But Ames should not be expected to carry the costs alone.

[I'm not a lawyer. You don't have to tell me so. But there is right and there is wrong. This is wrong, IMO.]

[Arubaman]

Buying Ames farm for a public boat ramp would not be cost effective for the State and the residents of the State. Right now the State has ample property to install a public boat ramp with plenty of parking for day boater's right at Ellacoya State Park. Without spending that much money a nice area could be built.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Arubaman

Buying Ames farm for a public boat ramp would not be cost effective for the State and the residents of the State. Right now the State has ample property to install a public boat ramp with plenty of parking for day boater's right at Ellacoya State Park. Without spending that much money a nice area could be built.

I was told by a co-worker (who's also an avid fisherman) that he was told by Fish & Game people years ago that the reason a ramp was never pursued at Ellacoya was the need for significant dredging and it would take too much to get the necessary permits for that. He was also told, as snowbird said, the state considered the 17 (or so) working ramps adequate to provide public access to the lake.

Well, now there's only 16! And of those 16, how many have adequate parking for truck and trailer to go along with them???? Ames Farm has both; TWO ramps and PLENTY of parking! A public ramp is useless for an out-of-town boater trailering in if he has to park a 1/4 mile or more away! I know, that's probably music to the ears of some lake property owners; god forbid I should be allowed to put my boat in their lake, even though I AM a life-long NH resident!

[fatlazyless]

Uummm...maybe Gilford would offer bass fishing tournaments and NH Fish & Game's species monitoring team the use of a section of its' huge Gilford town beach, and parking lot, and facilities while Ames Farm Inn goes through months (years?) of legal manuevers?

www.amesfarminn.com

Lakes Winnisquam, Newfound, and Squam have all grown very nice, no-fee, state boat launch facilities, complete with car&trailer parking spaces, boat-launching ramps, dock, and rest rooms in the last ten years. All built with fishing license fees.

Maybe, Winnipesaukee will be next on the list, if Ames Farm Inn loses its' land use, legal battle? How long before that could happen......like years, probably?

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I was told by a co-worker (who's also an avid fisherman) that he was told by Fish & Game people years ago that the reason a ramp was never pursued at Ellacoya was the need for significant dredging and it would take too much to get the necessary permits for that. He was also told, as snowbird said, the state considered the 17 (or so) working ramps adequate to provide public access to the lake.

Well, now there's only 16! And of those 16, how many have adequate parking for truck and trailer to go along with them???? Ames Farm has both; TWO ramps and PLENTY of parking! A public ramp is useless for an out-of-town boater trailering in if he has to park a 1/4 mile or more away! I know, that's probably music to the ears of some lake property owners; god forbid I should be allowed to put my boat in their lake, even though I AM a life-long NH resident!

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...
We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!
Please dont try and make it sound like anyone is denying you of anything..I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

[Arubaman]

Originally Posted by HUH

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...
We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!
Please dont try and make it sound like anyone is denying you of anything..I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

I can not see why people would have to fight to be on a PUPLIC BODY OF WATER.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by HUH

Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

Yup, I agree. Why just last weekend I saw these weekend warriors go by ....

[Rose]

Originally Posted by HUH

We now have people parking on the side of our road, even blocking driveways!

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

[EricP]

I don't get people sometimes. I realize this particular situation may not be exactly the point I am making. The Ames Farm has been operating for a long time now. Some of the neighbors are now complaining (from what I gather) and this is the root of the problem. Seems to me if you bought a place next to a busy spot, such as Ames Farm, a public beach, the Weirs, etc.. you should know that it will get busy and therefore should understand that and deal with it. It's not like you bought your place and then sudenly a new public facility showed up next to you, it was already there. It's like putting your foot in a bucket of water then complaining it is wet. Again, I don't know the entire situation there but how much of this is based on complaints after someone put there foot in the water?

I personally have no stake in this game, but it the whole situation seems wrong to me. Ames has been there "forever" and is well known as a pay-for use launch spot, personally I think $20 to put your boat is in steep but then again it's the convenience I suppose.

[robmac]

I IMHO think that what you decided to have as your neighbor was your choice. As stated before Ames has been there as long as I can remember,your new neighbor could be alot worse. I remember as a kid a family on our street was always going at it with the people next door.Well one finally moved and for lack of a better term sold to trailer trash that made the property look like a junk yard. So be carefull what you wish for it CAN be worse. IMHO

[Lakepilot]

If you buy a place beside a commercial activity like Ames, not only do you know in advance what you are getting, you pay less for the property. Then if the commercial enterprise is forced to leave, the value of your property goes up.

I've seen this many times with airports. People buy a house under the approach path at a very low price, then complain about the noise. The airport goes and now their property is worth a lot more.

[gravy boat]

My understanding is that the lawyer's family has owned the land for several generations -- they didn't recently purchase the property and suddenly start complaining.


GB

[Mr. V]

Get your facts straight.

The neighbors are not new, they've been there a long time.

So your coming to the nuisance argument must fail.

The issue is that the activity at Ames Farm has grown increasingly commercial over time, and they apparently did not bother to secure the appropriate permits etc. from the appropriate government activities which would allow it.

I don't know whether Ames Farm would have been allowed to engage in the questioned commercial activities had they bothered to seek permission.

But now it's probably too late: Ames seems to have run afoul of the law, and the quasi-political question is: what to do about it?

Of course, if they can marshall the necessary proof to support their argument that the questioned uses are grandfathered, then the problem is solved.

Thus far, they've been unable to do so.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Get your facts straight.

The neighbors are not new, they've been there a long time.

So your coming to the nuisance argument must fail.

The remaining complainant is not new...there were others originally involved who are newer (1990's) and seemed comfortable with the Gilford Planning Board's July decision to approve the as-built plan put forth by Ames Farm, which included public use of the boat ramps. Perhaps joe, the abutter who posted on this topic over a year ago, would like to give his opinion, if he's still viewing the forum. There are other long-term abutters, including a group who owns property between the attorney's mother's property and Ames Farm who are very supportive of Ames Farm.

So, Mr. V, when you're in the neighborhood, do you stay at the attorney's mother's property?

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by Rose

So, Mr. V, when you're in the neighborhood, do you stay at the attorney's mother's property?

No, nor do I attend their yearly Lobster fest (don't like lobsters, don't drink).

But Steve is a good guy.

My family's place is down the shoreline a little bit, not too far, and close enough that this issue is relevant and of concern to me.

How about YOU, Rose: got lakefront?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

How about YOU, Rose: got lakefront?

Sadly, not since 1995.

Steve actually serenaded my mother and other guests in the summer house at the Farm many years ago.

[Arubaman]

Originally Posted by Lakepilot

If you buy a place beside a commercial activity like Ames, not only do you know in advance what you are getting, you pay less for the property. Then if the commercial enterprise is forced to leave, the value of your property goes up.

I've seen this many times with airports. People buy a house under the approach path at a very low price, then complain about the noise. The airport goes and now their property is worth a lot more.

You see it happen everyday, carpet baggers move in and start complaining and other people, other homes and business that have been in operation from the get go. Some move in claiming that now they live next to the lake that they own the lake, the lakes and ponds belong to everyone not just the lakeside residents. I can see have zoning laws, they do work and they do keep peoples investment on the higher end of the scale.

[Orion]

Originally Posted by Rose

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

And as I've said in the past on other Ames thread, having a private funded resource like Ames is priceless. If the Gov't were to try to do something like that operation, it would COST taxpayers a whole lot more. There is nothing else like it on the lake for trailering-boaters, and it would be very sad to see it end, even though I no longer need it myself.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by HUH

Everyones pespective is different I guess.. Maybe you are unaware of the already existing congestion problem at certain times on the lake. I believe Winni has reached or exceeded its maximum level of sustainability. If you want to be on the lake you have to fight for it.. IE rent a slip or a shorefront property or buy a condo etc.. otherwise, "like everywhere else" your most likely going to have to drive or walk to your truck/trailer, wait in line, find a spot etc...

I'm well aware of the congestion; I've been boating on the lake for the past 10 years now and before that, I spent alot of time on the lake in the summer back in the 70's. Essentially, what you're saying is, the wealthy can have whatever they want and the middle class has to do without or go bankrupt trying to enjoy boating as a pasttime. I don't have the money to shell out $3000-$5000 PLUS to rent a slip for the summer!!! And have you looked at the rental price of shorefront property with a dock?!? I certainly can't afford $1500/week (I believe that's a conservative estimate) for 10 weeks in the summer and buying property on the lake is out of the question; even if I could find something that I like, the prices are just outrageously high!! I'm just a middle-class employee trying to enjoy some time on the lake with my wife, THAT'S why I trailer my boat!! And now with Ames Farm launch ramps closed to the public, it's going to be even harder for me to enjoy a Sunday on the lake!

I have a 1-week timeshare on the lake; I didn't shell out thousands of dollars to buy a boat so I could only use it ONE WEEK out of the year!!

Originally Posted by HUH

I only state that ive seen enough to know Winni is getting pretty crazy.. we already stay on shore during weekends so all the warriors can have at it..

Reminds me of the phrase, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"

Originally Posted by Arubaman

I can not see why people would have to fight to be on a PUPLIC BODY OF WATER.

Excellent point, but some people seem to think Lake Winnipesaukee isn't a public body of water!!

Originally Posted by Rose

All the more reason for a place with ample parking, like Ames, to stay open.

Also an excellent point, Rose!

HUH, I'll bet you have the police phone number memorized or on speed dial so you can have those "evil" trailer boaters towed away!! So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

[fatlazyless]

For what it's worth, the no-fee, State of NH, ramp facilities at Newfound Lake and Squam Lakes are real nice.

Understand the State of NH is now planning to build a ramp facility on a three acre parcel on Lake Sunapee. A "Friends of Lake Sunapee" local conservation group has appealed the state's decision, lol

Lots-o-luck in building a state ramp on Winnipesaukee? Oh yeah....whoopsie.....States Landing next to Harilla Point marina/storage down the end of Moultonborough Neck already is a state ramp

[wifi]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....States Landing next to Harilla Point marina/storage down the end of Moultonborough Neck .....

"States" Landing and Harilla are on the opposite sides of town

States Landing is a town beach with permit required, it only had the word state in it, nothing to do with the Great State of NH

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by wifi

"States" Landing and Harilla are on the opposite sides of town

States Landing is a town beach with permit required, it only had the word state in it, nothing to do with the Great State of NH

Isn't there a State of NH launch ramp right next to the Harilla Landing Marina, and it is, in fact, the one and only state owned, public ramp, on the entire lake. Maybe it is called the Harilla state ramp, or something?

So, why not have all the bass tournaments, State F&G, pancake eaters, and long time Ames fans all relocate to that little, shallow, dirt & gravel, state ramp....away down the very end of Moultonborough Neck...........................................pro blem solved !

Any construction barges parked there, lately?

[Arubaman]

There is no State of NH owned boat Ramp On Lake Winnipesaukee. They are either owned by Towns or private boat yards.

[TomC]

I understand that the ramp at the end of the neck road (by Harilla) is State property... of course on busy weekends you have to practically park your trailer back at the LI bridge, but that's a different problem...

[GusMan]

I've used the Harilla Landing ramp to launch my bassboat for many years. It's in a nice central location on the lake that gives access to much of the rest of the lake without having to cross the broads.

It's a decent launch, but certainly doesn't compare to a facility like Ames Farm. It is a sand/gravel ramp with several large boulders that makes launching larger boats all but impossible. I was also told by NH Fish and Game that the town of Moultonboro was planning to make the parking along the street near Harilla residents only... much like the ramp at the Long Island bridge.

Cheers....

Gusman

[Onshore]

Technically speaking Ellacoya and Harilla are both state owned. Ellacoya is owned and maintained by the Dept of Resources and Economic Development and Harilla is what is known as a "road to public waters" owned by NH DOT.

There will be repairs and improvements at Harilla this year. Permit was issued last year. Unfortunately they will not address parking issues. Not sure when they will begin but expect it to be soon based on the chatter lately.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

Because there's much more to this than the neighbor not wanting trailered boats at Ames Farm, IMHO...it's been going on for years...why would it suddenly be a problem? I think the real problem lies between him and a member of the Ames family and only those directly involved know what's really going on.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by Rose

Because there's much more to this than the neighbor not wanting trailered boats at Ames Farm, IMHO...it's been going on for years...why would it suddenly be a problem? I think the real problem lies between him and a member of the Ames family and only those directly involved know what's really going on.

Oh I know and I agree. It was more of a rhetorical question really; I wasn't expecting an answer that would solve the mystery! I just find it annoying that their solution to a disagreement with Ames Farm and its owners is to get the business closed (or the size of the operation limited) and further limit access to the lake!

[HUH]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

I'm well aware of the congestion; I've been boating on the lake for the past 10 years now and before that, I spent alot of time on the lake in the summer back in the 70's. Essentially, what you're saying is, the wealthy can have whatever they want and the middle class has to do without or go bankrupt trying to enjoy boating as a pasttime. I don't have the money to shell out $3000-$5000 PLUS to rent a slip for the summer!!! And have you looked at the rental price of shorefront property with a dock?!? I certainly can't afford $1500/week (I believe that's a conservative estimate) for 10 weeks in the summer and buying property on the lake is out of the question; even if I could find something that I like, the prices are just outrageously high!! I'm just a middle-class employee trying to enjoy some time on the lake with my wife, THAT'S why I trailer my boat!! And now with Ames Farm launch ramps closed to the public, it's going to be even harder for me to enjoy a Sunday on the lake!

I have a 1-week timeshare on the lake; I didn't shell out thousands of dollars to buy a boat so I could only use it ONE WEEK out of the year!!



Reminds me of the phrase, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!"



Excellent point, but some people seem to think Lake Winnipesaukee isn't a public body of water!!



Also an excellent point, Rose!

HUH, I'll bet you have the police phone number memorized or on speed dial so you can have those "evil" trailer boaters towed away!! So why can't the neighbor next to Ames Farm work with them (instead of against them!) so they can stay open so the trailer boaters won't be blocking ANYONE'S driveway?

Oh please ..not the poor middle class speech! Barry has beat that one to death..
Ive been boating on winni for 42 years.. its gone from enjoyable to a downright nail biter on the weekends.
Are you condoning blocking someones driveway? Sure sounds that way.
When I said fight to get on the lake it was a figure of speech, not littoral.

[fatlazyless]

The Granite State News has an article that Ames Farm Inn has reopened for bass fishing tournaments, and how the Town of Moultonborough has upped it fishing tournament fees causing the tournaments to migrate across the lake to Ames. Sounds like some welcome news for Ames and bass tournaments?

Did see a few serious look'n bass boats this weekend......21' w/ 225hp ob's...maybe a tournament?

[Rose]

I noticed in today's Citizens article about the proposed BK yacht club that one of the principals of the B&P Realty Ventures (the corporation which is proposing the club) is Attorney Paul Bordeau. And one of the attorneys who represented the application of the Nix family at the 23 September 2008 Gilford ZBA meeting was an Attorney Paul Bordeau.

Verrrry interesting...

[rander7823]

Originally Posted by Rose

I noticed in today's Citizens article about the proposed BK yacht club that one of the principals of the B&P Realty Ventures (the corporation which is proposing the club) is Attorney Paul Bordeau. And one of the attorneys who represented the application of the Nix family at the 23 September 2008 Gilford ZBA meeting was an Attorney Paul Bordeau.

Verrrry interesting...

Excellent observation. When reading the article it mentions the potential for an upscale restaurant at that site. That could explain the Gordon Ramsey reference in the BK Restaurant thread. Big yacht club goes in then build the upscale restaurant, Don't you just love a good conspiracy theory.

[HUH]

Originally Posted by snowbird

One reason NH has not built a public ramp, like at Squam, is that the authorities considered the 17 [about] working ramps to be adequate, even though many more ramps could be supported based on the big lake's size. Perhaps someone should be asking the State about this. Furthermore, the Town of Gilford is denying access to the State's waters.

Perhaps NH could buy the Ames property. There is no question the State's formula for reasonable access has been curtailed by the Town's action. And it seems the threat of a lawsuit sent them for cover. But in this day and age, if enough money is made available, the serious threat of a countersuit might work. But Ames should not be expected to carry the costs alone.

[I'm not a lawyer. You don't have to tell me so. But there is right and there is wrong. This is wrong, IMO.]

Realy? Have you been out on the lake on a summer weekend.. More ramps and marinas are far from necessary.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

"...provided the income was declared..."

Even then, those tax records are only required to be saved for 10 years (for IRS' challenges against fraudulent returns). Who would have reasonably anticipated a legal challenge like this would come about—after 40 years?

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Naaah, these are lawyers after all. It's not like they're people with emotions and feelings...

...but job security...

Originally Posted by eyenotall777

Neighbors should be careful what they wish for.....could turn into a 200-slip yacht club.

A legal success here would inflate the value of ALL the abutting neighbors' properties. That could be what some of the affected abutters are actually after!