...roofing is hard work!

fatlazyless · 05-20-2009, 03:00 PM

Have been reroofing a large shed, about 12 x 15', over the past couple days. Removing the old asphalt shingles, some covered with green moss, removing the old black tar paper, and all the old roof nails. Then, starting at the bottom and moving up: a drip edge, a frost dam barrier, new tar paper, and new shingles with the standard 5" shingle exposure.

Lowe's sell the standard Owens Corning 12" x 36" shingles, about 33/case for about $25.75, a 5lb box of 1 1/4" roof nails for about 8.50.

Roofing is hard work; the roof is hot, sunny & buggy, and definately up on top of the building. The shingle-paks are heavy.

Just so's I can pat myself on my achy back for starting this project, what's the local going rate/square foot for a roofing job and how much to do my 12 x 15' shed if I were not too cheap to actually have hired a real roofer? Not like I will be hiring one, but just curious?

Well.....excuse me.....I need a beer to help dull the pain.......arrrrg.....this what happens investing in financials

arrrrgg

ApS · 05-20-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

"...what's the local going rate/square foot for a roofing job and how much to do my 12 x 15' shed if I were not too cheap to actually have hired a real roofer...?"

The only reason I can't answer your question is that I've always done my own re-roofing!

However, both of us could have learned from my Winnipesaukee neighbor: Thirty years ago, when he thought it was time to re-roof, he just put new roofing materials over the old roof!

(No removal of the old materials).

I thought that was highly unusual, but a NH roofer told me it's not at all unusual for old roofs to be left intact for re-roofing.

wifi · 05-20-2009, 05:29 PM

What will happen to your tax rate with this new roof?!?

tis · 05-20-2009, 05:45 PM

Heck with his tax rate wifi. When he gets blamed for that boathouse collapse in Alton Bay, he is going to have bigger problems than his tax rate! He'll learn that those push ups are just causing him too much grief!

Sunrise Point · 05-20-2009, 08:00 PM

FLL, I hope that you put the ice shield up before you installed the drip edge. It's probably not critical on an unheated building, but the ice shield does no good unless it comes in direct contact with the wood sheathing.

In any case, be careful up there.

trfour · 05-21-2009, 12:55 AM

FLL is alive and well, lets give credit were credit is due. In this obviously depressed economy, and his steadfastness to overcome, talk about a sweetie!.... FLL, "Your The Boss"!
"PUMP HIM UP"!

hoopdawg · 05-21-2009, 03:48 AM

Sunrise Point

FLL,I hope that you put the ice shield up before you installed the drip edge.It's probably not critical on an unheated building, but the ice shield does no good unless it comes in direct contact with the wood sheathing.

drip edge goes up first than the ice sheild due to if water does get underneath the shingles the water will run down and over the drip edge !! if ice shield is put on first than the drip edge and water is under shingle it would run down ice shield and under the drip edge it into soffit or the over hang of the eaves

and yes it is common for roofs to be shingled over a few layers but watch the local building code as to how many layers you can have up there !
and if doing a reshingel, ( shingling over exsiting shingels ) put on ice shield is not recomemned as it will stick to the shingles but when it warms up it will create ripples in shingels plus if not laid on bare wood it voids the warrenty of the ice shield

well enough of this

back up on the roof for me !!!!

Blue Thunder · 05-21-2009, 06:07 AM

To answer your question, FLL, a rough "going rate" for a strip and re-roof including the ice shield, drip edge and felt paper would be $350-$375 per square. A square is a 10'X10' area. You probably didn't need the ice shield since I'm going to assume your shed is not heated but it's good insurance.

BT

Slickcraft · 05-21-2009, 06:49 AM

FLL:
Two years ago we paid $6,250 for our house roof which is about 25 square or about $250 a square. This included removal of old, install of ice barrier and ridge vents and 30Y architectural shingles. High bid was $10,500.

You don't need the ice shield if the structure is unheated in the winter. There will be no melting under the snow that would run down and freeze near the lower edge so no ice dam.

About 5 years ago my wife and I did the roof on our island camp, 12 square of fun. We had to transport the new bundles over and bring the old back for disposal.

Too bad you were not a roofer back then; we would have offered you a job!

fatlazyless · 05-21-2009, 07:27 AM

My shed is insulated and vented and heated w/ a Rinnai and air conditioned too, but no plumbing to freeze up, plus it has a super lake-Gunstock mountain-Timber Island view....very nice shed..... it's a workshop.

Doing this roof job gives me a big appreciation for what roofing is all about. Surprisingly....make that very surprisingly, the 3/4" plywood roof was still solid despite the cruddy condition of the old shingles. The winter of Jan 2008 with all the ice was hard on this roof which has a low angle, not too steep pitch on one side.

Suggestion - How to be fully employed.....become a roofer....or is that a roofa......

.....yikes....hard work !

SIKSUKR · 05-21-2009, 09:53 AM

The FLL Roofing Company should be carefull if you are installing shingles the next 2 days.It's very easy to damage the shingles walking on them when the temps get into the 90's.Walk softly

jmen24 · 05-21-2009, 10:24 AM

FLL, take a tip from most of the full time roofing contractors that we have worked with, Get up on the roof at 6:00am and work until 9:30-10:00, take the middle of the day off and get back at it around 4:30 or so. Eat your dinner first so you can work till dark. And as mentioned do your push ups softly at the beginning of the evening shift.

dpg · 05-30-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopdawg

Sunrise Point

FLL,I hope that you put the ice shield up before you installed the drip edge.It's probably not critical on an unheated building, but the ice shield does no good unless it comes in direct contact with the wood sheathing.

drip edge goes up first than the ice sheild due to if water does get underneath the shingles the water will run down and over the drip edge !! if ice shield is put on first than the drip edge and water is under shingle it would run down ice shield and under the drip edge it into soffit or the over hang of the eaves

and yes it is common for roofs to be shingled over a few layers but watch the local building code as to how many layers you can have up there !
and if doing a reshingel, ( shingling over exsiting shingels ) put on ice shield is not recomemned as it will stick to the shingles but when it warms up it will create ripples in shingels plus if not laid on bare wood it voids the warrenty of the ice shield

well enough of this

back up on the roof for me !!!!

Huh??? Explain that again?? Am I missing something or did you state that both the drip edge and ice shield go on first??

dpg · 05-30-2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

The only reason I can't answer your question is that I've always done my own re-roofing!

However, both of us could have learned from my Winnipesaukee neighbor: Thirty years ago, when he thought it was time to re-roof, he just put new roofing materials over the old roof!

(No removal of the old materials).

I thought that was highly unusual, but a NH roofer told me it's not at all unusual for old roofs to be left intact for re-roofing.

It's extremely common to reshingle a roof and leave the old roof in place. I wouldn't say its done as often as removing the old roofing materials but yes, it's quite common. Some people are of the opinion it acts as another layer of insulation.

Audiofn · 05-31-2009, 01:24 PM

The weight of the shingles is why I went with metal. Then the roofer that I hired took my substantial deposit and disapeared. So I was stuck doing the roof myself with the help of a bunch of friends and family. It came out great but took for ever and I had to get over my fear of heights! A roofer came over and said that I could not have had a harder roof to do my first go around!

hoopdawg · 05-31-2009, 01:54 PM

put drip edge on first than put on ice shield and put ice shield at least 1'' over the drip edge

Sunrise Point · 05-31-2009, 09:45 PM

The info from the Grace co. web site states:

27.

How do I flash drip edges?
The metal drip edge or wood starter shingle should be placed over the membrane as shown in standard Grace detail drawings. The Grace self-adhered underlayments should not be installed over cedar shingles. Refer to eave application details at www.graceconstruction.com for more information.

FLL - Whatever you do, I hope that your new shed roof keeps you dry for many years to come.

I was told of the ice shield first, drip edge second, theory years ago by some one who I consider to be a first-rate craftsman.....but then, there is more than one way to "skin a cat" so I am sure that there is more than one way to apply ice and water shield. However, manufacturers will only guarantee a product if it is appied according to their specifications.

Audiofn · 05-31-2009, 10:17 PM

When in doubt do both

jmen24 · 06-01-2009, 01:57 PM

The full installation specs of Grace is that you install the membrane over the plywood and wrap down over and to the bottom of your "rough fascia" then install the dripedge and your finish fascia and shadow board to cover the Grace.

If the water runs under the drip edge and in behind the shadow board and your fascia there is a simple fix that is severely overlooked by contractors and that is to BACK PRIME all exterior trim to prevent moisture from being absorbed by the wood.

Or you can do what we do and apply according the manufacturer specs, install drip edge, put a six in strip of Grace Tape over first 1" of drip edge and onto the first layer of Grace and apply non-finger jointed pre-primed exterior trim.

dpg · 06-02-2009, 06:15 AM

I have a much better fix...Call a roofer...

SIKSUKR · 06-02-2009, 10:00 AM

Wouldn't a giant blue tarp trump all these methods?I'm starting to sound like FLL.

Audiofn · 06-04-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Wouldn't a giant blue tarp trump all these methods?I'm starting to sound like FLL.

No that is for siding!!!!

Nadia · 06-05-2009, 12:04 AM

It might be hot up there on the roof, but with the typical black shingles you seem to get a great tan!

That's funny this thread came up when it did, I have recently gone back to roofing and finish carpentry and was up on a roof for the first time in eight years three weeks ago. As with any trade you get used to the heat, the physical demands, the heights and the awkward ladders and staging. Try carrying 120 lb rolls of tar paper up a 30 foot fiberglass ladder, then you really respect the what the contractors do! Good luck with your roof FLL, you can learn a lot doing it yourself!

ApS · 06-05-2009, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Wouldn't a giant blue tarp trump all these methods? I'm starting to sound like FLL.

Yes you are.

I once put a giant aluminized tarp over my roof after some major windstorm damage. It stayed up there for months.

While the result could have been anticipated, I'm here to tell you that tarp was highly impressive in reducing the sun's radiant heating effect inside the house.

Audiofn · 06-05-2009, 01:08 PM

That is why the metal roof I showed above is Energy Star Rated. I thought it was a bunch of BS because I got it in a dark color. I am amazed at the difference between the roof I got and one that is not energy star rated. I even used a piece to protect the gel coat on my boat when I had to heat up a piece of alluminum with a torch! I had the torche hitting the metal for almost 3 min and when I pulled back the metal expecting to see all chared up gell was super happy to find nothing wrong!

05-20-2009, 03:00 PM	#1
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,723 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,000 Times in 729 Posts	...roofing is hard work! Have been reroofing a large shed, about 12 x 15', over the past couple days. Removing the old asphalt shingles, some covered with green moss, removing the old black tar paper, and all the old roof nails. Then, starting at the bottom and moving up: a drip edge, a frost dam barrier, new tar paper, and new shingles with the standard 5" shingle exposure. Lowe's sell the standard Owens Corning 12" x 36" shingles, about 33/case for about $25.75, a 5lb box of 1 1/4" roof nails for about 8.50. Roofing is hard work; the roof is hot, sunny & buggy, and definately up on top of the building. The shingle-paks are heavy. Just so's I can pat myself on my achy back for starting this project, what's the local going rate/square foot for a roofing job and how much to do my 12 x 15' shed if I were not too cheap to actually have hired a real roofer? Not like I will be hiring one, but just curious? Well.....excuse me.....I need a beer to help dull the pain.......arrrrg.....this what happens investing in financials arrrrgg __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 05-21-2009 at 07:49 AM.

05-21-2009, 12:55 AM	#6
trfour Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lakes, Central NH. and Dallas/Fort Worth TX. Posts: 3,694 Blog Entries: 3 Thanks: 3,069 Thanked 472 Times in 236 Posts	In The Preamp Of Progress.... FLL is alive and well, lets give credit were credit is due. In this obviously depressed economy, and his steadfastness to overcome, talk about a sweetie!.... FLL, "Your The Boss"! "PUMP HIM UP"! __________________ *trfour* Always Remember, The Best Safety Device In The Boat, or on a PWC Snowmobile etc., Is YOU! Safe sledding tips and much more; http://www.snowmobile.org/snowmobiling-safety.html

05-21-2009, 06:07 AM	#8
Blue Thunder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Eastern MA & Frye Island/Sebago Lake, Maine Posts: 947 Thanks: 249 Thanked 348 Times in 155 Posts	FLL Roofing LLC (???) To answer your question, FLL, a rough "going rate" for a strip and re-roof including the ice shield, drip edge and felt paper would be $350-$375 per square. A square is a 10'X10' area. You probably didn't need the ice shield since I'm going to assume your shed is not heated but it's good insurance. BT __________________ " Live for today because yesterday is gone and tomorrow may never come"

05-21-2009, 07:27 AM	#10
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,723 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,000 Times in 729 Posts	My shed is insulated and vented and heated w/ a Rinnai and air conditioned too, but no plumbing to freeze up, plus it has a super lake-Gunstock mountain-Timber Island view....very nice shed..... it's a workshop. Doing this roof job gives me a big appreciation for what roofing is all about. Surprisingly....make that very surprisingly, the 3/4" plywood roof was still solid despite the cruddy condition of the old shingles. The winter of Jan 2008 with all the ice was hard on this roof which has a low angle, not too steep pitch on one side. Suggestion - How to be fully employed.....become a roofer....or is that a roofa...... .....yikes....hard work ! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

05-21-2009, 09:53 AM	#11
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Word of caution The FLL Roofing Company should be carefull if you are installing shingles the next 2 days.It's very easy to damage the shingles walking on them when the temps get into the 90's.Walk softly __________________ SIKSUKR

05-20-2009, 05:29 PM	#3
wifi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 1,321 Thanks: 282 Thanked 287 Times in 169 Posts	What will happen to your tax rate with this new roof?!?

05-20-2009, 05:45 PM	#4
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,669 Thanks: 750 Thanked 1,444 Times in 1,003 Posts	Heck with his tax rate wifi. When he gets blamed for that boathouse collapse in Alton Bay, he is going to have bigger problems than his tax rate! He'll learn that those push ups are just causing him too much grief!

05-20-2009, 08:00 PM	#5
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	FLL, I hope that you put the ice shield up before you installed the drip edge. It's probably not critical on an unheated building, but the ice shield does no good unless it comes in direct contact with the wood sheathing. In any case, be careful up there.

05-21-2009, 03:48 AM	#7
hoopdawg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 30 Times in 13 Posts	Sunrise Point FLL,I hope that you put the ice shield up before you installed the drip edge.It's probably not critical on an unheated building, but the ice shield does no good unless it comes in direct contact with the wood sheathing. drip edge goes up first than the ice sheild due to if water does get underneath the shingles the water will run down and over the drip edge !! if ice shield is put on first than the drip edge and water is under shingle it would run down ice shield and under the drip edge it into soffit or the over hang of the eaves and yes it is common for roofs to be shingled over a few layers but watch the local building code as to how many layers you can have up there ! and if doing a reshingel, ( shingling over exsiting shingels ) put on ice shield is not recomemned as it will stick to the shingles but when it warms up it will create ripples in shingels plus if not laid on bare wood it voids the warrenty of the ice shield well enough of this back up on the roof for me !!!!

05-21-2009, 06:49 AM	#9
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,283 Thanks: 1,216 Thanked 2,055 Times in 945 Posts	FLL: Two years ago we paid $6,250 for our house roof which is about 25 square or about $250 a square. This included removal of old, install of ice barrier and ridge vents and 30Y architectural shingles. High bid was $10,500. You don't need the ice shield if the structure is unheated in the winter. There will be no melting under the snow that would run down and freeze near the lower edge so no ice dam. About 5 years ago my wife and I did the roof on our island camp, 12 square of fun. We had to transport the new bundles over and bring the old back for disposal. Too bad you were not a roofer back then; we would have offered you a job!

05-21-2009, 10:24 AM	#12
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	Very True FLL, take a tip from most of the full time roofing contractors that we have worked with, Get up on the roof at 6:00am and work until 9:30-10:00, take the middle of the day off and get back at it around 4:30 or so. Eat your dinner first so you can work till dark. And as mentioned do your push ups softly at the beginning of the evening shift.

05-31-2009, 01:24 PM	#15
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The weight of the shingles is why I went with metal. Then the roofer that I hired took my substantial deposit and disapeared. So I was stuck doing the roof myself with the help of a bunch of friends and family. It came out great but took for ever and I had to get over my fear of heights! A roofer came over and said that I could not have had a harder roof to do my first go around! Attached Images

05-31-2009, 01:54 PM	#16
hoopdawg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 30 Times in 13 Posts	put drip edge on first than put on ice shield and put ice shield at least 1'' over the drip edge

05-31-2009, 09:45 PM	#17
Sunrise Point Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Meredith Center / Winnisquam Posts: 250 Thanks: 87 Thanked 34 Times in 21 Posts	The info from the Grace co. web site states: 27. How do I flash drip edges? The metal drip edge or wood starter shingle should be placed over the membrane as shown in standard Grace detail drawings. The Grace self-adhered underlayments should not be installed over cedar shingles. Refer to eave application details at www.graceconstruction.com for more information. FLL - Whatever you do, I hope that your new shed roof keeps you dry for many years to come. I was told of the ice shield first, drip edge second, theory years ago by some one who I consider to be a first-rate craftsman.....but then, there is more than one way to "skin a cat" so I am sure that there is more than one way to apply ice and water shield. However, manufacturers will only guarantee a product if it is appied according to their specifications.

05-31-2009, 10:17 PM	#18
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	When in doubt do both

06-01-2009, 01:57 PM	#19
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	The full installation specs of Grace is that you install the membrane over the plywood and wrap down over and to the bottom of your "rough fascia" then install the dripedge and your finish fascia and shadow board to cover the Grace. If the water runs under the drip edge and in behind the shadow board and your fascia there is a simple fix that is severely overlooked by contractors and that is to BACK PRIME all exterior trim to prevent moisture from being absorbed by the wood. Or you can do what we do and apply according the manufacturer specs, install drip edge, put a six in strip of Grace Tape over first 1" of drip edge and onto the first layer of Grace and apply non-finger jointed pre-primed exterior trim.

06-02-2009, 06:15 AM	#20
dpg Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,591 Thanks: 150 Thanked 229 Times in 166 Posts	I have a much better fix...Call a roofer...

06-02-2009, 10:00 AM	#21
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Wouldn't a giant blue tarp trump all these methods?I'm starting to sound like FLL. __________________ SIKSUKR

06-05-2009, 12:04 AM	#23
Nadia Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Laconia/Vegas/Florida Posts: 160 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 24 Thanked 19 Times in 10 Posts	It might be hot.... It might be hot up there on the roof, but with the typical black shingles you seem to get a great tan! That's funny this thread came up when it did, I have recently gone back to roofing and finish carpentry and was up on a roof for the first time in eight years three weeks ago. As with any trade you get used to the heat, the physical demands, the heights and the awkward ladders and staging. Try carrying 120 lb rolls of tar paper up a 30 foot fiberglass ladder, then you really respect the what the contractors do! Good luck with your roof FLL, you can learn a lot doing it yourself!

06-05-2009, 01:08 PM	#25
Audiofn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bedford, MA/Naples, ME Posts: 162 Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	That is why the metal roof I showed above is Energy Star Rated. I thought it was a bunch of BS because I got it in a dark color. I am amazed at the difference between the roof I got and one that is not energy star rated. I even used a piece to protect the gel coat on my boat when I had to heat up a piece of alluminum with a torch! I had the torche hitting the metal for almost 3 min and when I pulled back the metal expecting to see all chared up gell was super happy to find nothing wrong!