Gilford Island Residents Must Secede!

[tis]

WE all want to secede, not just you islanders. All the lakefront owners! Yes, we are very lucky to be able to live on the lake, but we all worked hard for it. Our taxes are more than your's on the islands and we don't get much more for it.

[Slickcraft]

We are not happy about the Gilford tax rate. Alton has a similar situation with island and 2nd home properties adding considerably to the net valuation while costing the town little in services. Unlike spendthrift Gilford, Alton has managed to keep a reasonable check on spending and hence a more reasonable tax rate.
As for succession, residents of the new Town of Islewins would no longer be able to use the Glendale facility but I suppose diverted tax funds could buy a replacement.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Taxed but can't vote for the folks spending the money or go to town meeting. You know the saying.

I did enjoy Les defending taxes. Somebody Else's taxes.

[Irish mist]

If American citizens could think "outside the box" and get rid of the public school systems which takes up close to 80% of local money the quality of life in this nation would take off. After 12 years of paying fo your own kids in private schools people would be free to live without paying school costs for 60 earning years of their life-times. We vote ourselves into bondage....I suppose it's just human nature.
________
Volcano Vaporizer

[Mink Islander]

Irish Mist, how wonderfully and utterly selfish of you. We are a country that has always believed in the value of education. It's a shared burden by all citizens. Constitutional right, I might add. It was for your education and always will be for our future children as well.

Non-sectarian private k-12 schools cost about $13,000 per student per year according to a recent Council on Private Education survey. Do you really think that a typical young family with 2 maybe 3 children could afford to spend $26-40,000 per year on K-12 education? Really?

Whose quality of life would be better? Oh yeah, yours because apparently you don't have school age children. I think, thankfully, most of the U.S. population has a more evolved view of citizenship than you.

Or is this really some perverse form of birth control you advocate. Them that can't afford to pay for their young-uns education, shouldn't have children, ayuh! Git me another beer, Marge! LOL

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by Mink Islander

Irish Mist, how wonderfully and utterly selfish of you. We are a country that has always believed in the value of education. It's a shared burden by all citizens. Constitutional right, I might add. It was for your education and always will be for our future children as well.

Non-sectarian private k-12 schools cost about $13,000 per student per year according to a recent Council on Private Education survey. Do you really think that a typical young family with 2 maybe 3 children could afford to spend $26-40,000 per year on K-12 education? Really?

Whose quality of life would be better? Oh yeah, yours because apparently you don't have school age children. I think, thankfully, most of the U.S. population has a more evolved view of citizenship than you.

Or is this really some perverse form of birth control you advocate. Them that can't afford to pay for their young-uns education, shouldn't have children, ayuh! Git me another beer, Marge! LOL

Nice way to put words, or your words in my mouth. What puplic school, or city job do you hold ? With no puplic schools the price of private education would be lower since we would have a different system from the one we use today. Most government schools are not very good, but I see the teachers unions could care less about that. It would be nice to see vouchers, but the unions will not allow it.

As for me being selfish.....get real. Something needs to change in American public education, and your internet snark is typical of people who can't see outsde this box, or any box. I have no doubt things will not change in public education. I suspect it will get worse. This is getting off topic in any event, and to expect anything like intelligent conversation with the likes of you is a waste of time since you retort was more personal than rational. This kind of personal attack is a common problem in public debate these days. Oh, and what a surprise......you're a Mass resident, lol. The land of the rude and crude and government owned sheeple. When I said I was thinking "outside the box" it was meant to spark thinking in a different way about an issue. I have no doubt that public schools will be here in 50 years......what I'm concerned about is how to start thinking in different ways about these problems.....not having to deal with a vulgarian who can't attack the ideas without attacking the person.
________
Ford ltd

[Ropetow]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

With no puplic schools the price of private education would be lower since we would have a different system from the one we use today.

Selfish and wrong. God forbid you had a child with severe special needs who needed to be out-sourced to a 'life skills' program, at an annual cost of approximately $60,000 per year. Or, for that matter, any other type of special-needs child requiring (and being entitled to) special (and expensive) accommodations. If you are rich, no sweat. But what if you aren't rich, have no trust fund, and didn't hit the gene-pool lottery. What then? Yeah, your typical town spends more per-pupil to educate a child than does a private (non-elite) school. But they don't bear the costs of special needs children! For some public school districts, nearly 25% of their budget goes to educating children with special needs. Eliminate public education and what happens to those children? Yes, a nation in Europe once had a solution for dealing with those children. I think America has a much better solution. Is public education perfect? No. Is 'outside the box' thinking a good thing? Absolutely. But, in the end, Thomas Jefferson was right in his advocacy for a free public education for all children.

[Ropetow]

To keep this on-topic, I wonder if Thomas Jefferson ever travelled to Gilford?
And what would he think about the Winni Speed Limit Debate?

[Irish mist]

Originally Posted by Ropetow

Selfish and wrong. God forbid you had a child with severe special needs who needed to be out-sourced to a 'life skills' program, at an annual cost of approximately $60,000 per year. Or, for that matter, any other type of special-needs child requiring (and being entitled to) special (and expensive) accommodations. If you are rich, no sweat. But what if you aren't rich, have no trust fund, and didn't hit the gene-pool lottery. What then? Yeah, your typical town spends more per-pupil to educate a child than does a private (non-elite) school. But they don't bear the costs of special needs children! For some public school districts, nearly 25% of their budget goes to educating children with special needs. Eliminate public education and what happens to those children? Yes, a nation in Europe once had a solution for dealing with those children. I think America has a much better solution. Is public education perfect? No. Is 'outside the box' thinking a good thing? Absolutely. But, in the end, Thomas Jefferson was right in his advocacy for a free public education for all children.

Lol, "free public education" Nothing is free. There's nothing selfish about wanting to change the way education is dealt with in the USA. What we have been doing is not working. I'll tell you what. Keep the public schools and allow people, especially poor people to send their kids to any school they want with vouchers, and expand charter schools, and let's see how that works out. Even our very best public schools in the USA don't come near the education children are getting in the average European schools. Again, we are waaaay off topic, and I take part of the blame for that.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

Lol, "free public education" Nothing is free. There's nothing selfish about wanting to change the way education is dealt with in the USA. What we have been doing is not working. I'll tell you what. Keep the public schools and allow people, especially poor people to send their kids to any school they want with vouchers, and expand charter schools, and let's see how that works out. Even our very best public schools in the USA don't come near the education children are getting in the average European schools. Again, we are waaaay off topic, and I take part of the blame for that.

To continue the off-topicness (I know that's not a real word...my U.S. education isn't that bad), I worked with with a gent from England who not only had a public primary education, but his education at Oxford was also paid for by the state. And he's definitely one of the most well-educated people I know.

There's no doubt that changes are needed in many areas (education and healthcare to name two important ones) in this country. I found a comment that I read in Newsweek a couple of weeks ago very interesting. To paraphrase, it said that in the United States, citizens considered state (read federal, state and local) spending to be waste, while Europeans considered it investment in assets (infrastructure, a well educated and health citizenry, etc.). So what changes are necessary so we (or at least the majority) feel we're getting a good bang for our buck with regards to our tax dollar?

[SAMIAM]

A few other services that "islanders" don't get. Town sewer,town water,street lights,sidewalks,garbage pick up,mail delivery.....in addition to police and fire..........how about 911 service on an island?
I don't live on an island,and realize that they have chosen to be there,but it is totally unfair that they have to do all the heavy lifting with so little for their money.They should lobby or use thew courts for a lower tax rate.

[jrc]

I own property in Hollis and Gilford. Neither town provides "Town sewer,town water,street lights,sidewalks,garbage pick up,mail delivery" for those properties, yet I pay high taxes. Personally, one fix that should be persued is allowing all tax payers to vote in town meetings.

But let's face it, in NH the lions share of property tax is for education, all the other expenses are trivial. So unless you want to live and vacation in a state full of ignorant idiots, you have to pay. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't fix the education system, the current system makes me sad, so many wasted lives.

Getting back on topic, after the islander secede, can I use the docks at Glendale to visit Lyon's Den? Can I put my trash in the dumpsters their?

[Rose]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

A few other services that "islanders" don't get. Town sewer,town water,street lights,sidewalks,garbage pick up,mail delivery.....in addition to police and fire..........how about 911 service on an island?
I don't live on an island,and realize that they have chosen to be there,but it is totally unfair that they have to do all the heavy lifting with so little for their money.They should lobby or use thew courts for a lower tax rate.

Sewer and water services for private residences and commercial properties are paid for by the owners. It's likely the only town sewer and town water they're paying for are the services to town facilities...schools, town hall, police, fire, etc. Perhaps that's what you meant.

[Rattlesnake Guy]

We live in Hollis also and have a dump sticker for the Alton town dump. I think we should be allowed to vote at the town meeting. As taxpayers, we are part of the town.

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Guy

.....and have a dump sticker for the Alton town dump.....

Excuse me, Rattlesnake Guy, but it is NOT a dump. It is a Transfer Station! Most of all that crap we drop off is recycled and the place actually makes money for the town. So in addition to our taxes to Alton, we are also making money for the town with our trash. That certainly warrants us a vote!

[Rattlesnake Guy]

Originally Posted by McDude

Excuse me, Rattlesnake Guy, but it is NOT a dump. It is a Transfer Station! Most of all that crap we drop off is recycled and the place actually makes money for the town. So in addition to our taxes to Alton, we are also making money for the town with our trash. That certainly warrants us a vote!

Dear Mr Mcdude
Mea Culpa. I was thinking transfer station and wrote the obsolete, outdated and sometimes offensive term that shall not be uttered. I do remember the few times I have gone, the many categories of recycling to choose from. We have a similar situation back home and it certainly saves the towns a lot of $$$.

Many thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.

[tis]

Yeah, it is a great idea, but I am afraid they would never allow it. When Tuftonboro wanted to leave the Gov. Wentworth school district, the process was unbelievable and in the end they were not able to. Just to leave a school district! Think what it would be like if we all wanted to secede!

[fatlazyless]

Last time a NH town split off was in 1962 when Sugar Hill left Lisbon.

In about 1991, a Laconia state rep sponsored a bill where the Weirs would split off from Laconia, and become a separate town. The bill did not pass the house.

Looking at a map, it sure seems like Governor's Island, is geographically closer to Laconia than to Gilford, or at least the border should go through the middle of Governor's Island, with about one half going to both towns. Laconia sure missed the boat on Governor's Island. How did that happen?

If Laconia were smart, it would invade Governor's Island in the middle of the night and steal it back!

[rander7823]

Originally Posted by Irish mist

If American citizens could think "outside the box" and get rid of the public school systems which takes up close to 80% of local money the quality of life in this nation would take off. After 12 years of paying fo your own kids in private schools people would be free to live without paying school costs for 60 earning years of their life-times. We vote ourselves into bondage....I suppose it's just human nature.

We get to privatize/eliminate Social Security. No more taking 6.2% (1.45% is Medicare) out of my salary that I'll never see to pay for the folks that weren't smart enough to save.

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by tis

WE all want to secede, not just you islanders. All the lakefront owners! Yes, we are very lucky to be able to live on the lake, but we all worked hard for it. Our taxes are more than your's on the islands and we don't get much more for it.

Originally Posted by AC2717

This is the truth, maybe we can form one town and county around the Lake, hows this one:
400sqft cottage $2,500 for bldg only taxes!!!!

Sucede if you will, but remember the state of NH owns the rights to the lake to the high water mark and I would support legislation to erect a border fence to keep those waterfronters out of "my" lake Just think no one would worry about people achoring off the shore of their cottage, because you would not be able to see it . You laugh but a developer in Florida did this exact exercise and charged the residents $35,000 to have the fence taken down. He did wait for all the homes to be complete for a year or two before putting the fence up on his water front buffer that remained in his name and not the associations.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by tis

WE all want to secede, not just you islanders. All the lakefront owners! Yes, we are very lucky to be able to live on the lake, but we all worked hard for it. Our taxes are more than your's on the islands and we don't get much more for it.

This is the truth, maybe we can form one town and county around the Lake, hows this one:
400sqft cottage $2,500 for bldg only taxes!!!!