Missing bouy or just not enough.

Rickeei · 08-30-2010, 11:16 AM

Ok, maybe I blew it by venturing into new ground , but , then again. I was motoring through Timber and Mark, and I went around Round to go toward Braun Bay. Well when I came around Round to go around the bouys on the backside of Welch the bouys only start about halfway through the rocks and I damage my prop and skeg. Now why isn't there a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks. And of all things I saw a boat drive right through the same area with hitting. but on the map it is all blue and rocky. I know I missed my cue , but a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks would have helped me. Unless the bouy moved during the winter and such. Oh bouy!

upthesaukee · 08-30-2010, 11:39 AM

Was it just on the Camp Is side of round? There is Flasher 46 there and a black tipped spar on that side. Or was it opposite Welch Is and "below" Fish Is and Pop Is? That shoal area should have three red tipped spars fairly close together, and another just off Fish Is. At least that is what I see on Bizer's 6th edition that I have at the house.

Sorry for the damage to your boat and hopefully no one was hurt.

ClosetExtrovert · 08-30-2010, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickeei

Ok, maybe I blew it by venturing into new ground , but , then again. I was motoring through Timber and Mark, and I went around Round to go toward Braun Bay. Well when I came around Round to go around the bouys on the backside of Welch the bouys only start about halfway through the rocks and I damage my prop and skeg. Now why isn't there a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks. And of all things I saw a boat drive right through the same area with hitting. but on the map it is all blue and rocky. I know I missed my cue , but a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks would have helped me. Unless the bouy moved during the winter and such. Oh bouy!

SAME thing happened to us. Same spot. But we weren't damaged for some blessed reason. I kept looking around and didn't see any bouy!! Very scary. I can't believe I saw this post. I've been upset for days...

Rickeei · 08-30-2010, 12:40 PM

Well I don't have the map in from of me at the moment , but, I think you are right on. I was looking for the bouys as I was coming around Round Island and I just saw the far one in betweenish Welch and the small islands. All the small islands right before you approach Welch. Well , nothing prevents anyone from entering from the Round Island side. The first bouy was way over to the right. I was a larger area than I anticipated and I drove right through the "big circle with the x in it".

SIKSUKR · 08-30-2010, 12:56 PM

Don't know if all the markers are in place but that area can be tough to spot where your not supposed to be unless you study your chart.There is a lot of open area between the 3 red markers and Pop/Fish islands.

Rickeei · 08-30-2010, 01:12 PM

Exactly , I consider it a lesson learned and no one was hurt. In my opinion there is way too much room for error there. That was my first time in the area. Ouch!

boat_guy64 · 08-30-2010, 01:42 PM

In the bright sunlight, it is very difficult to see those red markers. I cut it short two years ago on my jetski on a bright sunny day. Lots of pretty rocks down there to destroy a prop or an entire lower unit. I'm glad I wasn't on my boat that day. A week later, I was cruising through the area showing my wife the mistake I made and we saw a pontoon boat that was pulling a tuber plow through that are and lose a prop. Now, I always make sure I see all three red markers in a triangle before I turn in or out of that area.

The Skipper · 08-30-2010, 05:48 PM

That area south of Pops and Fish Islands inside those 3 red markers are marked with a Red X in a red circle on the Bizer map. Plus a 4th red marker to the east of Fish I and shows rocks in the area inside all 4 of those. That means no passage.

On the Greenie Duncan Map that same area shows some rocks and shoals but also a clear area inside the boundaries of three red markers. They do not show the 4th red marker to the east of Fish. Duncan shows markers numbered 229 and 230 as rocks and shoals then north of that is a clear channel before rocks and shoals of Pops and Fish Island and the third red marker numbered 228.

Both maps differ in that area with Bizer showing NO safe passage and Duncan showing a clear navigable area through there.

Another reason why I trust my Bizer map and have to question the Duncan map. I've talked with some area boat mechanics who tell me that they have repaired boats that hit rocks not shown on the Duncan maps but marked better on the Bizer map.

SIKSUKR is right that the red markers are spread far apart and you need to study your map in order to know to stay clear of that area. It appears that it also makes a difference which map you study. Bizer makes it more clear. Fortunate that you didn't have more damage Rickeei.

Belmont Resident · 08-30-2010, 06:17 PM

Call the Marine patrol. Can't tell you how many calls I've placed over the years for lights out on bouys, bouys chopped up by boaters and markers that should be but are not there.
If they don't know about it they cannot fix it and they do investigate all calls concerning markers.

upthesaukee · 08-30-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

Call the Marine patrol. Can't tell you how many calls I've placed over the years for lights out on bouys, bouys chopped up by boaters and markers that should be but are not there.
If they don't know about it they cannot fix it and they do investigate all calls concerning markers.

Earlier this year I called about a red tipped spar missing from the rock area on the broads' side of Plum Island in Roberts Cove. It appeared to have broken loose from its mooring and was drifting into Roberts Cove, with the wind. Fixed in two days from my call to MP.

Yesterday, noticed that FL 22 was missing from the area next to Little Mark at the head of Alton Bay. Forgot to call when I got in and thought about it until I read this thread earlier today. I emailed MP and got a response in about an hour that they were already aware, Maintenance was working on it, and thanked me for the tip.

They can't fix something they don't know about. Good advice, B. R.

lfm · 08-31-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Don't know if all the markers are in place but that area can be tough to spot where your not supposed to be unless you study your chart.There is a lot of open area between the 3 red markers and Pop/Fish islands.

Maybe this should be a separate thread, but I'd be curious if anyone else finds any other areas confusing or not well marked, and where they are.

Bizer · 09-24-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickeei

Ok, maybe I blew it by venturing into new ground , but , then again. I was motoring through Timber and Mark, and I went around Round to go toward Braun Bay. Well when I came around Round to go around the bouys on the backside of Welch the bouys only start about halfway through the rocks and I damage my prop and skeg. Now why isn't there a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks. And of all things I saw a boat drive right through the same area with hitting. but on the map it is all blue and rocky. I know I missed my cue , but a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks would have helped me. Unless the bouy moved during the winter and such. Oh bouy!

Bizer just inspected this area earlier this week. Of the four red-and-white buoys south/east of Fish Island, the westernmost had moved about 200 feet to the southwest, away from the rocks. All four buoys still correctly mark the area.

As for boats that sail through without a problem: Any boat who just goes through this area has about a 90% chance of making it through without incident. Bizer's chart showing "NO PASSAGE" is for those who don't want to chance it.

Excalibur · 09-29-2010, 12:31 PM

There is a red buoy closer then usual to Breezy Island. A lot of people confuse this buoy with the passage channel between Breezy and Camp Island. The red buoy should be further South to avoid the misunderstanding.

When you approach the area from between Camp and Round the Red Buoy should be straight on. Instead its off to the port clustered with the markers from the channel. That is the first mark to avoid the area on this approach until you get well within the danger zone and can see the next red marker to your south by then it is typically too late.

The area contains a large ledge area just North of the Red marker by Welch Island . There is about 3 feet of clearance at high water and a lot less now.

If you pass closer to Fish Island there is a safe passage, but risky with a few condo size boulders.

I have witnessed multiple cabin cruisers running aground there and finding out later there boats where totaled.

VtSteve · 10-02-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibur

There is a red buoy closer then usual to Breezy Island. A lot of people confuse this buoy with the passage channel between Breezy and Camp Island. The red buoy should be further South to avoid the misunderstanding.

When you approach the area from between Camp and Round the Red Buoy should be straight on. Instead its off to the port clustered with the markers from the channel. That is the first mark to avoid the area on this approach until you get well within the danger zone and can see the next red marker to your south by then it is typically too late.

The area contains a large ledge area just North of the Red marker by Welch Island . There is about 3 feet of clearance at high water and a lot less now.

If you pass closer to Fish Island there is a safe passage, but risky with a few condo size boulders.

I have witnessed multiple cabin cruisers running aground there and finding out later there boats where totaled.

It would seem to be a rather simple change in navigational markers.

These are the type of things that could be accomplished with minimal staff, and possibly a real person ?

08-30-2010, 11:16 AM	#1
Rickeei Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Missing bouy or just not enough. Ok, maybe I blew it by venturing into new ground , but , then again. I was motoring through Timber and Mark, and I went around Round to go toward Braun Bay. Well when I came around Round to go around the bouys on the backside of Welch the bouys only start about halfway through the rocks and I damage my prop and skeg. Now why isn't there a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks. And of all things I saw a boat drive right through the same area with hitting. but on the map it is all blue and rocky. I know I missed my cue , but a bouy on the Round Island side of the rocks would have helped me. Unless the bouy moved during the winter and such. Oh bouy!

08-30-2010, 11:39 AM	#2
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,595 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,448 Thanked 1,978 Times in 1,079 Posts	Not sure where you hit... Was it just on the Camp Is side of round? There is Flasher 46 there and a black tipped spar on that side. Or was it opposite Welch Is and "below" Fish Is and Pop Is? That shoal area should have three red tipped spars fairly close together, and another just off Fish Is. At least that is what I see on Bizer's 6th edition that I have at the house. Sorry for the damage to your boat and hopefully no one was hurt. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

08-30-2010, 12:40 PM	#4
Rickeei Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Yep. Well I don't have the map in from of me at the moment , but, I think you are right on. I was looking for the bouys as I was coming around Round Island and I just saw the far one in betweenish Welch and the small islands. All the small islands right before you approach Welch. Well , nothing prevents anyone from entering from the Round Island side. The first bouy was way over to the right. I was a larger area than I anticipated and I drove right through the "big circle with the x in it".

08-30-2010, 12:56 PM	#5
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Don't know if all the markers are in place but that area can be tough to spot where your not supposed to be unless you study your chart.There is a lot of open area between the 3 red markers and Pop/Fish islands. __________________ SIKSUKR

08-30-2010, 01:12 PM	#6
Rickeei Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That's the place! Exactly , I consider it a lesson learned and no one was hurt. In my opinion there is way too much room for error there. That was my first time in the area. Ouch!

08-30-2010, 01:42 PM	#7
boat_guy64 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Windham and Meredith Posts: 225 Blog Entries: 5 Thanks: 33 Thanked 89 Times in 42 Posts	Tough area In the bright sunlight, it is very difficult to see those red markers. I cut it short two years ago on my jetski on a bright sunny day. Lots of pretty rocks down there to destroy a prop or an entire lower unit. I'm glad I wasn't on my boat that day. A week later, I was cruising through the area showing my wife the mistake I made and we saw a pontoon boat that was pulling a tuber plow through that are and lose a prop. Now, I always make sure I see all three red markers in a triangle before I turn in or out of that area.

08-30-2010, 05:48 PM	#8
The Skipper Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Gilford Laconia when I can Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bizer marks it No Passage while Duncan shows a safe passage That area south of Pops and Fish Islands inside those 3 red markers are marked with a Red X in a red circle on the Bizer map. Plus a 4th red marker to the east of Fish I and shows rocks in the area inside all 4 of those. That means no passage. On the Greenie Duncan Map that same area shows some rocks and shoals but also a clear area inside the boundaries of three red markers. They do not show the 4th red marker to the east of Fish. Duncan shows markers numbered 229 and 230 as rocks and shoals then north of that is a clear channel before rocks and shoals of Pops and Fish Island and the third red marker numbered 228. Both maps differ in that area with Bizer showing NO safe passage and Duncan showing a clear navigable area through there. Another reason why I trust my Bizer map and have to question the Duncan map. I've talked with some area boat mechanics who tell me that they have repaired boats that hit rocks not shown on the Duncan maps but marked better on the Bizer map. SIKSUKR is right that the red markers are spread far apart and you need to study your map in order to know to stay clear of that area. It appears that it also makes a difference which map you study. Bizer makes it more clear. Fortunate that you didn't have more damage Rickeei.

08-30-2010, 06:17 PM	#9
Belmont Resident Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Belmont NH but prefer Jackman Maine Posts: 1,857 Thanks: 491 Thanked 410 Times in 251 Posts	When in doubt Call the Marine patrol. Can't tell you how many calls I've placed over the years for lights out on bouys, bouys chopped up by boaters and markers that should be but are not there. If they don't know about it they cannot fix it and they do investigate all calls concerning markers.

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bizer For This Useful Post:
Excalibur (09-29-2010), VtSteve (09-24-2010)

09-29-2010, 12:31 PM	#13
Excalibur Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Gilford,NH is where I would like to be and Southborough, MA is where I have to be Posts: 88 Thanks: 14 Thanked 10 Times in 3 Posts	The red buoy off breezy island There is a red buoy closer then usual to Breezy Island. A lot of people confuse this buoy with the passage channel between Breezy and Camp Island. The red buoy should be further South to avoid the misunderstanding. When you approach the area from between Camp and Round the Red Buoy should be straight on. Instead its off to the port clustered with the markers from the channel. That is the first mark to avoid the area on this approach until you get well within the danger zone and can see the next red marker to your south by then it is typically too late. The area contains a large ledge area just North of the Red marker by Welch Island . There is about 3 feet of clearance at high water and a lot less now. If you pass closer to Fish Island there is a safe passage, but risky with a few condo size boulders. I have witnessed multiple cabin cruisers running aground there and finding out later there boats where totaled.