Flip a Fountain - split from "Which Boat??"

[ApS]

Originally Posted by robjnh

Dave,

I completly agree with you on the FI vs. Carb. I had a carb on my Crownline and never had any problem starting it. I did however have a lot of people that never even came to look at the boat when they discoved it was not FI.

Most people have FI drilled into there heads as the only way to go so if you think you want to flip the boat in a few years you got to go along with the crowd IMO.

I would also throw in that if you think you are going to tow a lot, I would opt for the Volvo or the BIII. Dual prop gets out of whole much better.

If you want to flip the boat in a few years, skip the Crownline 202BR AND the Four Winns Horizon 200.

Get a Fountain.

[Belmont Resident]

If you want to flip it buy a Fountain.
If you want to sell it buy a Baja.
Those stepped hulls are easy boats to flip.

[Will]

Originally Posted by Belmont Resident

If you want to flip it buy a Fountain.
If you want to sell it buy a Baja.
Those stepped hulls are easy boats to flip.

Totally not the case, the problem IS with an inexperienced driver, any stepped hull boat is the easiest to flip. If I was on the lake running 30-50mph in chop, I wouldnt want to be in any other boat, the ride is just amazing. Fountain is actually one of the safest cigarette boats out there, the lay-up schedule they use is second to none and they make a quality boat. The boats have a real deep deadrise, plane fast and flat out move. The other thing I advise you to look at on a fountain is, take a look at the drives on a fountain and then take a look at the drives on a formula or something similar. You will notice almost all fountains come with external hydraulic steering, absolutely no play, the boats are tight and hold very well.

As for JD Power, I have a real problem with that, and while it is a good idea to look at it, I advise you to look at one simple thing, the Yamaha 300HPDI. It is rated very well on JD Power, however they are a problem plagued motor with a class action lawsuit going on right now. If you dont believe me take a look at www.thehulltruth.com and read some of the posts over there. I just dont believe JD Power is a good way to rate things.

Will

[ApS]

Your comfortable ride depends on what you need to do. My powerboat has too little deadrise to accomplish what this Baja 28 did -- in a minimum-wake zone.

This "driver" with 13 aboard (authorities think it was 13), "drives" his boat through $50,000 worth of condominium docks.

"...I could hear screaming, so I jumped out of bed, and I saw a white boat, ... and there were people on the edge of it screaming,'' said David Wise, a condominium resident. A handful of passengers might have been catapulted overboard with the quick succession of impacts..."

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGBPJ7XNX4E.html

[SIKSUKR]

Interesting that APC forgot to mention that this was a off duty deputy and that he has been repremanded three times for accidents involving his squad car that his bosses thought he could have prevented.In your never ending quest to bash big boats Acres Per Second,you don't seem to realize It's not the boat,it's the driver.It's getting real old APC and I don't even own a boat over 10 feet! SS

[Paugus Bay Resident]

SIKSUKR - couldn't agree with you more

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Your comfortable ride depends on what you need to do. My powerboat has too little deadrise to accomplish what this Baja 28 did -- in a minimum-wake zone. {snip}

Son, now listen to me Son ... did he say deadrise, I say did he say deadrise ?!? Must be my ears gone deaf 'cuz I thought he said deadrise. Must be some new Yankee term. You know them Yankees, always trying to confuse the facts with fancy verbage. Now dead drunk I say ... I say dead drunk, there's the words that fit. Son, I say Son, are you listening to me ?? Dead drunk not dead rise.

[Will]

I guess its true, you can take the name away from madrasahs accept you cant take the madrasahs away from the name. Lol It really shows through and through. I'm not even going to reiterate my point because everyone else here already has.

We have tried being nice,
We have tried being stern,
We have tried using cartoon characters.

Mad, I dont know what kind of quest you are on, but I will put it to you kindly, there will never be a ban on offshore powerboats, there will never be a lake wide no wake zone, there will never be no powerboats, the lake willl never go back to the 1920's. You will just have to use your aluminum boat and your hobie cat and be happy with that.

Cheers!

Will

[Paugus Bay Resident]

My frustration is that APS often hijacks threads, tries to take them off topic, and promote his own agenda.

This thread was about Upnorth looking for recommendations on a boat, to which most replied in kind. Sometimes I feel like APS considers the forum how own private soap box.

If you want to flip the boat in a few years, skip the Crownline 202BR AND the Four Winns Horizon 200.

[ApS]

Interesting that APC forgot to mention that this was a off duty deputy and that he has been repremanded three times for accidents involving his squad car that his bosses thought he could have prevented.

Risk-taking behavior is indicated; but why not give the deputy a PASS on "preventable" accidents? Cops are 24/7 mobile -- day and night -- rain and snow.

Why not slap him with a FAIL for not taking the Breathalyzer?

Guess it's in one's priorities.

In your never ending quest to bash big boats you don't seem to realize It's not the boat, it's the driver. It's getting real old APC and I don't even own a boat over 10 feet!

It's the "Driver"?

If Acres per Second became a really, really, REALLY drunk "driver", it is impossible to endanger 13 passengers in my "boat". (Or, for that matter, slice through even one dock).

I dont know what kind of quest you are on...there will never be a ban on offshore powerboats, there will never be a lake wide no wake zone, there will never be no powerboats, the lake will never go back to the 1920's.

Heck, I'll settle for the 80s!
And never...say...never. They're talking $3 gasoline today -- plus, Winnipesaukee did have two lake-wide, no-wake-zones already. Maybe you overlooked them.

If you go back to the article, you'll see that a no-wake zone was in force at the condominium. Maybe you overlooked that too.

You will just have to use your aluminum boat and your hobie cat and be happy with that.

You mean, happy with:

Ejected passengers=zero?...Docks=zero?

I can live with that.

My frustration is that APS often hijacks threads, tries to take them off topic, and promote his own agenda.

Ever try to follow a thread at the old Forum?

Threads aren't stabile by nature; especially as they get "stale-dated". A sinister agenda would be to limit expression of ideas or opinions.

Besides, it's a NEWS story, reported from a BOATING forum. This story has everything:

1) Too much boat
2) Too much liquor
3) Deputy refuses Breathalyzer
4) Racing: There were two GFBLs (Go Fast Be Loud) racing each other -- found in "comments", not article.
5) Racing in No-wake zone
6) Boat overloaded
7) Risk-taking behavior
8) Nothing goes wrong until the dock gets in the way

OK, there's no sex.

We may be "lucky" that our boating season is short!

This thread was about Upnorth looking for recommendations on a boat, to which most replied in kind.

OK, I agree with the Grady. Nice deadrise....

Still, Will made an unanswered comment.

Sometimes I feel like APS considers the forum how own private soap box.

It's everybody's soap box/opinion/2¢/IMHO.

It's my humble opinion that Winnipesaukee is no place for boors.

Give us the benefit of your reasoning.

___________________
If you're afraid of the lake...stay off of docks?

[glennsteely]

Great reply.....I admire your spirit. You are my kind of guy......

[Will]

Acres, I never made the soapbox quote, check your facts, you always do.
BTW, your hobie cat and aluminum boat can't slash through docks like a 28 baja can, however its the idiots out in the channel with one of these who throw me off in my boat and I have to swerve to avoid that causes accidents. Maybe its me but out in front of the weirs is no place for some nut to be out in an aluminum boat.

Will

[Mee-n-Mac]

No doubt I'll regret stepping into your whine session but just to clarify a few things ...

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

It's the "Driver"?
If Acres per Second became a really, really, REALLY drunk "driver", it is impossible to endanger 13 passengers in my "boat". (Or, for that matter, slice through even one dock).

Errr, OK but what exactly is your point ? Are you trying to say that everyone should be restricted to rowboats and 10HP O/Bs ? Much beyond that and well within the "Madrasah limit" you'll can find boats that endanger passengers and docks. Besides I bet you could cram at least 10 people into your boat if you applied yourself I counted 8 in a 12' aluminum rowboat this last July 4'th in Wolfeboro, c'mon you could beat that !

Originally Posted by Paugus Bay Resident

My frustration is that APS often hijacks threads, tries to take them off topic, and promote his own agenda.

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Ever try to follow a thread at the old Forum?

Threads aren't stabile by nature; especially as they get "stale-dated". A sinister agenda would be to limit expression of ideas or opinions.

I fully agree with PBR ! While threads may tend to diverge from the original topic in this case I can't even see the stretch to get from Fountain flipping (a reasonable joke on prior post's wording) to a FL boating "accident". You simply saw this a opportunity to step on your favorite soapbox to the detriment of the person asking the original question. This is what I would label as "boorish". After all you could have simply started a new thread on your fav topic (except for 1 detail to be mentioned below), nothing sinister or limiting in that is there ?

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

Besides, it's a NEWS story, reported from a BOATING forum. This story has everything:
1) Too much boat
2) Too much liquor
3) Deputy refuses Breathalyzer
4) Racing: There were two GFBLs (Go Fast Be Loud) racing each other -- found in "comments", not article.
5) Racing in No-wake zone
6) Boat overloaded
7) Risk-taking behavior
8) Nothing goes wrong until the dock gets in the way

OK, there's no sex.

You missed one other thing it didn't have .... any relation to the Lakes region. Frankly since this news story has nothing to tie it to here or the topic that was being discussed you should count yourself lucky that Webmaster Don didn't yank it.

BTW - if you read the comments you've notice the boat is reputed to be a Baja 280 Sportfish, a center console fishing boat. With it's max of 2 x 250 HP outboards, it doesn't seem to be your stereotypical GFBL boat. I'd guess it'd top out over 60 mph, but below 70 mph, so I might say it's GF but with OBs it won't fit the definition of BL. And re: 1) too much boat ... Am I wrong or haven't you said you don't dislike the boats, you just think they don't belong here on Winni ... that they belong on the ocean ... like in FL ?

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

It's everybody's soap box/opinion/2¢/IMHO.
It's my humble opinion that Winnipesaukee is no place for boors.

I agree with both points above and would add it's also no place for bores. See I can play funny word games too, do I get a candy now

[Will]

Mee N Mac, great post, while reading that article I didnt even pick up on the fact that it was a 280 Sportfish.


Will

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Mee&Mac (and all other unattributed quotes)

No doubt I'll regret stepping into your whine session but just to clarify a few things ...

I'm a gearhead and a racer; sometimes you'll note a whine that becomes a roar. The Internet is changing things worldwide.

Much beyond that and well within the "Madrasah limit" you'll can find boats that endanger passengers and docks. Besides I bet you could cram at least 10 people into your boat if you applied yourself I counted 8 in a 12' aluminum rowboat this last July 4'th in Wolfeboro, c'mon you could beat that !

I consider three adults a maximum for a 12-foot boat.

BTW - if you read the comments you've notice the boat is reputed to be a Baja 280 Sportfish, a center console fishing boat. With it's max of 2 x 250 HP outboards, it doesn't seem to be your stereotypical GFBL boat. I'd guess it'd top out over 60 mph, but below 70 mph, so I might say it's GF but with OBs it won't fit the definition of BL. And re: 1) too much boat ... Am I wrong or haven't you said you don't dislike the boats, you just think they don't belong here on Winni ... that they belong on the ocean ... like in FL ?

It's a 500HP outboard?

Not that it matters. It's just a little quieter as it rips through the docks. (Quieter still, if the 13 passengers would just stop their screaming).

That they should not be operated around tubers, divers, and skiers on closed, protected, inland waters is a lake sentiment shared by other, older, and possibly more traveled, Winnipesaukeeteers.

I fully agree with PBR ! While threads may tend to diverge from the original topic in this case I can't even see the stretch to get from Fountain flipping (a reasonable joke on prior post's wording) to a FL boating "accident". You simply saw this a opportunity to step on your favorite soapbox to the detriment of the person asking the original question. This is what I would label as "boorish". After all you could have simply started a new thread on your fav topic (except for 1 detail to be mentioned below), nothing sinister or limiting in that is there ? ...You missed one other thing it didn't have .... any relation to the Lakes region. Frankly since this news story has nothing to tie it to here or the topic that was being discussed you should count yourself lucky that Webmaster Don didn't yank it.

Here's a "search" for:
"Florida" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=15164 (Florida's everywhere -- very common)
"Utah" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=19194
"dolphins" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=15817
"shark" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=60377
"piranhas" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...ames;read=9581
"alligator" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...ames;read=9717, http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=37574
"crocodile" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=24860, or
"flamingo" http://www.winnipesaukee.com/oldforu...mes;read=21012

1) Your "objectionable Baja news-story" was held back for nearly a month, and by then...the former thread was running on empty.

2) What do I do with my 22-pound, 7-ounce bass story...caught outside Winnipesaukee yesterday?
With this 113-pound catfish story caught outside Winnipesaukee recently ?
This $25,000 insurance-policy boat story that could be in Winnipesaukee in two months?
That FL GFBLs will be out on the picket-line this weekend, demonstrating to force the shutting down of NWZs statewide?

I wait: For the next opportunity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acres per Second
It's the "Driver"?
If Acres per Second became a really, really, REALLY drunk "driver", it is impossible to endanger 13 passengers in my "boat". (Or, for that matter, slice through even one dock). Errr, OK but what exactly is your point ?

I'd like to think that we Winnipesaukee boaters aren't allowing ourselves to become blind to irresponsible boating behavior. Will there be headlines next summer? You bet there will be.

It's easier to see the irresponsibilities from a sailboat, in which every sound, odor, and sight can be seen at a relaxed pace. A great way to "take-in" Lake Winnipesaukee delights, BTW.

You and I grew up in a day of wood boats. Though strong and light, you don't risk them, regardless of size.

Nowadays, you can take one fiberglass boat -- run over another fiberglass boat -- put it in a boathouse and polish-out the defects later. It's an insured "Dodgem-car" mentality.

Concurrent with the development of fiberglass boating is a certain risk-taking behavior in an increasingly-crowded Winnipesaukee environment. You may have read today that GFBL boats can run a $25,000 annual insurance premium. ("Yeah, it's high, but I've got a DUI...")

Are you trying to say that everyone should be restricted to rowboats and 10HP O/Bs ?

1) There are very desirable large lake locations elsewhere, with boat length restrictions, stringent noise restrictions, Jet-Ski restrictions, large public/tourist viewing areas, air quality restrictions, ATV-restrictions, and restrictive operation-near-shore regulations. (Example: All boats keep 600 feet in a NWZ from all shorelines).

All who have been to these locations will marvel at the natural -- and undiminishable -- beauty of those places. They pay property taxes that approximate Winnipesaukee's taxes too, and enforce the regulations. What a concept.

How is our "Live Free or Die" mentality any different than anarchy?
I'll take beauty.

2) Powerboat skippers seem to live in their own cocoon with no more than a 200-foot threshold.

With a modest engine, one can adjust course and speed to avoid a collision threat. In a sailboat, rowboat, kayak, canoe, or inflatable, there is no reserve. Last season, only two acknowledged my mirrored-signal to change course. But with increased speed comes greater responsibility -- not less. Who has not seen an increasing "Captain Bonehead" presence using GFBL boats?

3) I can live with the fact that the ice can destroy my dock; but no "skipper" should be operating a boat that can destroy five $10,000 docks at a time.

But we also know the same "drivers" will be out there again -- except maybe uninsured, and in still bigger, louder, GFBL boats.

Originally Posted by Will

"...BTW, your hobie cat and aluminum boat can't slash through docks like a 28 baja can, however its the idiots out in the channel with one of these who throw me off in my boat and I have to swerve to avoid that causes accidents. Maybe its me but out in front of the weirs is no place for some nut to be out in an aluminum boat."

Sounds like I need to stay home.

('Don't want to become known as "Killer ApS".)

[Cal]

WOW ...How'd I miss this thread .
Lotta good stuff here , but unlike some people , I've been taught to keep my opinions to myself

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by Will

Maybe its me but out in front of the weirs is no place for some nut to be out in an aluminum boat.

Is this Aluminum boat too small to be operated in front of the Weirs?

[Cal]

Looks good for the next "Mount"

[fatlazyless]

Well, if they can build a big boat like that one in the picture and make it out of aluminum, then why no aluminum sailboats in the 12-14' range? There's all type of boats out on the lake except for any aluminum sailboats that I never seen. Someone mentioned that the high cost of gasoline could put a muzzle on the go-fast boat scene. I noticed that the black & yellow Summa Humma, a 47' Fountain with three 620hp inboard-outboards and a trailer is up for sale for 295 thousand dollars. Could it be that gasoline just cost too much?

[SIKSUKR]

I'm pretty sure Marc doesn't have to worry about gas money.Maybe it's to help pay for his new Mcmansion on Governors.Oh no,I'm starting to sound like the very people I critisize here on this forum.More likely its cuz he doesn't use it very much any more.I didn't see it on the lake once last year. SS

[BroadHopper]

Now that Marc is married, he needs more room! So he uses that Regal that is over at his father's. Unless that boat is for sale.
Sounds like he may be getting ready to expand his macmansion now that Bahrer has the biggest.

[GWC...]

Wonder when we'll see one of these and what its flip value might be?

[ApS]

Is it an over-sexed 60MPH Jet-Ski?

Or a pontoon boat with a 60MPH attitude?

The action photo shows the operator can't see ahead! (Of course, that lack of function isn't limited to this boat). Either way, if it has to be towed with a six-wheel trailer, it's trouble for us Winnipesaukee boaters.

There's a similar -- but glass-bottomed 35MPH version that's pretty neat at the same site. I like it.

[GWC...]

This only requires a single axle and appears to have full visibility.




Speaking of sailboats, this only requires a windmill, of sorts – no sheet, for movement.

Just curious, does your kayak have this option?

P.S.- Love the new avatar - Betty Cooke was unique.

[Cal]

APS,
I love your new avatar . Perhaps this is your new boat?? Welcome to the dark side , Bro.

[Paugus Bay Resident]

Top speed is only 42, so it should be good to go

[upthesaukee]

[QUOTE=GWC...]
Just curious, does your kayak have this option?


Checking out the link brought back some memories. From 1974 to 1981, we lived in Bossier City Louisiana. Virtually all lakes are manmade and usually have some wooded areas that shelter the boater from the wind. In fact, most have natural "speed bumps) that eliminate the need for a speed limit (called tree stumps from the forests they flooded to make the lake.) A common fishing and hunting vessel down there is the "cajun" pirogue (peer-rouge). It basically means a dugout boat (bateaux), but evolved into both wooden and manmade materials. Good ones were about the same price as a kayak, and were extremely stable. I went out in a few, even brought my 80 lb Black Lab. She could stay in the pirogue and then jump out to retrieve a duck, and then get back in with no trouble. very little freeboard. And the point is: Even back in the 70's to 80's they had models with an electric "troll" motor built into the pirougue that was either foot controlled or hand (joystick - back=left turn- forward=right turn)controlled. Don't think I would want to use up here though on Winni---even a light wind would make the open cockpit design subject to wave wash and a subsequent wet ride.

[KBoater]

Thanks for the fun boat links.

I have a friend that is thinking of replacing this boat.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by GWC...

Just curious, does your kayak have this option?

You mean, a retractable electric motor mounted inside a kayak?

No, but we, and another neighbor, have 'em mounted outside the boat.

It's near dead-silent -- even quieter than paddling -- allowing you get to sneak up on fishers, big bass, beavers, mink, sandpipers and other critters around the shoreline. The big bass are funny -- they will swim up and "confront" the motor, then high-tail it away.

My plans to install a non-retractable are on hold -- but I have all the parts ready to go. I believe the retractable motor in your link is mounted near the bow -- a really good idea. (But doesn't show well in the photographs).
Kayaks don't turn well, especially if there's any wind.

There's never enough "juice" in the batteries, though. My BIL brings all the solar equipment every summer, which extends the adventure somewhat (on sunny days).

Like FLboater says, "Thanks for the fun boat links."