Frozen Home Advice Request

8gv · 02-28-2015, 08:00 AM

My friend called me late last night with a cold house. The propane furnace had quit due to snow obstructing the exhaust vent. The house was 32*.

A tech from the propane supplier got the furnace running again in less than an hour. Now the task of thawing and assessment has begun.

So far he has found three cracked toilets. We suspect that his refrigerator (water/ice disp.), dishwasher and washing machine could be damaged.

A larger concern is the pipes in the walls. They are pex.

He has the furnace heating up the house and the water is turned off at the supply. Towels are in place around the toilets to catch the water as they thaw.

He intends to call his insurance co. this morning.

My questions:

Does he just need a plumber or is this more of a Serv Pro type of job?

Can someone recommend a plumber for him?

Is pex better or worse than copper in this situation?

Why did he not buy a cold house alarm when I told him about the one I had installed in my house?

fatlazyless · 02-28-2015, 08:08 AM

www.spearsbrothers.com in Belmont is a good place for buying toilets. They have all sorts of recycled building items that came out of demolished buildings.

...just furgetabout Lowe's of Home Depot, and go to Spears!

Can recall going to Spears .... and they had these medium brite green bathroom ...toilets and sinks....in hospital green....big sturdy green porcelain American Standard toilets that came out of some hospital in Hanover, NH.... for short money....u-know!

Happy Gourmand · 02-28-2015, 08:45 AM

The PEX piping SHOULD be fine. I would remove the toilets while they are still frozen if it's not too late. More of a plumber issue unless there was any flooding from the busted toilets.

8gv · 02-28-2015, 09:09 AM

So far he removed the frozen toilet tanks and wrapped towels around the bases.

pjard · 02-28-2015, 09:22 AM

I would remove the bases of the toilets as well...usually two bolts....remove all doubt. I would call Penco in Gilford...they are great! 603-293-7157

MOXIE · 02-28-2015, 03:54 PM

Pex is a lot more forgiving than copper. What can happen if pex is frozen is that it can blow the fitting away from the tubing. When thawing out a house, it is safer to thaw it very slowly. All the appliances listed could be damaged, but the hot water heater was not mentioned. also, if on a well, the expansion tank could be damaged.
Before turning the water back on, the entire system should be pressurized with a compressor to check for damage.
MOXIE

8gv · 02-28-2015, 05:04 PM

A plumber has been contacted. He intends to use air pressure to check for leaks.

The water heater was on and thus not frozen.

This all started with snow over the vent.

For those who see their houses infrequently in the winter, get someone to clear out the vent area!!!

Thanks for the responses!

TriDad · 03-01-2015, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

My friend called me late last night with a cold house. The propane furnace had quit due to snow obstructing the exhaust vent. The house was 32*.

A tech from the propane supplier got the furnace running again in less than an hour. Now the task of thawing and assessment has begun.

So far he has found three cracked toilets. We suspect that his refrigerator (water/ice disp.), dishwasher and washing machine could be damaged.

A larger concern is the pipes in the walls. They are pex.

He has the furnace heating up the house and the water is turned off at the supply. Towels are in place around the toilets to catch the water as they thaw.

He intends to call his insurance co. this morning.

My questions:

Does he just need a plumber or is this more of a Serv Pro type of job?

Can someone recommend a plumber for him?

Is pex better or worse than copper in this situation?

Why did he not buy a cold house alarm when I told him about the one I had installed in my house?

Which cold house alarm do you use ?

secondcurve · 03-01-2015, 08:18 PM

I use the below freeze alarm and it works great. It saved me twice this year. The biggest issue is if you your phone is via cable it will become disabled when the cable goes out. Land lines work best since they tend to become disabled less frequently than cable phone lines.

Control Products Intermediate FreezeAlarm Custom Temperature and Power Outage Alarm FA-I-CCA with voice message to up to 3 phone numbers / Quick Status Check
by Control Products

8gv · 03-02-2015, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriDad

Which cold house alarm do you use ?

This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Skylink-TS-101.../dp/B00106K2KG

8gv · 03-02-2015, 12:08 AM

So the final (he hopes) carnage report includes:

Three toilets

Refridgerator water filter

Sprayer hose for sink

I hope that's it!

secondcurve · 03-02-2015, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Skylink-TS-101.../dp/B00106K2KG

Talk about terrible reviews! I'd stick with the Control Products freeze alarm I use. Simple, cheap and lots of great reviews.

secondcurve · 03-02-2015, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

So the final (he hopes) carnage report includes:

Three toilets

Refridgerator water filter

Sprayer hose for sink

I hope that's it!

It sounds like he was lucky. If the problem happened a day or two earlier he'd likely have a very big claim on his hands.

Neko · 03-02-2015, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Talk about terrible reviews! I'd stick with the Control Products freeze alarm I use. Simple, cheap and lots of great reviews.

I also use Freeze alarm in both of my homes.

8gv · 03-02-2015, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Talk about terrible reviews! I'd stick with the Control Products freeze alarm I use. Simple, cheap and lots of great reviews.

Had I read the reviews prior to purchase I would have bought a different one.

It seems to work ok so far.

upthesaukee · 03-02-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

Had I read the reviews prior to purchase I would have bought a different one.

It seems to work ok so far.

Five reviews, and I think they were from 2009-2011. Perhaps they got their act together over the last 4 years or so.

Jersey Ed · 03-02-2015, 12:39 PM

I have been using the above mentioned "intermediate freeze alarm". for several years now. I first learned of it a number of years ago while lurking THIS VERY FORUM and couldn't be happier with the product. I use it in my second home in upstate New York which I keep heated all year long. Several points that have not been mentioned yet about the alarm:: you set the "alarm" conditions as you want them. Set the temp that you want to set-off the alarm [hi or low temp] Amount of time the power to the house has been off before the alarm is triggered and the condition of the back-up battery. You can call the unit as many times a day as you want to and you can change any of your settings from any other phone, you do not have to be at the unit location to make changes.

Kamper · 03-03-2015, 05:52 AM

Tell them don't throw anything away until they call their insurance agent. This job is likely to total way above the deductible if they have the coverage.

Good luck!

8gv · 03-03-2015, 01:48 PM

At the moment I think he's planning on eating the expense. Between the plumber and the toilets he should be above the deductible now. To me the real danger in eating it comes from finding out later that there is a leak in a wall. Tearing up the house to get it and the possibility of mold abatement could get costly.

fatlazyless · 03-07-2015, 12:26 PM

For about 12.49 (9v battery not included) the Lowe's in Gilford sells a small water leak detector that's about the size of two packs of cigarettes, powered by a 9v battery and makes a 105-db alarm that sounds for three days or so. It has two metal contacts on the bottom which are designed to be placed onto a carpet.

Located in the back of the Lowe's in Gilford in the water pump area....seems like a good item...

8gv · 03-07-2015, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

For about 12.49 (9v battery not included) the Lowe's in Gilford sells a small water leak detector that's about the size of two packs of cigarettes, powered by a 9v battery and makes a 105-db alarm that sounds for three days or so. It has two metal contacts on the bottom which are designed to be placed onto a carpet.

Located in the back of the Lowe's in Gilford in the water pump area....seems like a good item...

Ya but, once it starts ringing, isn't it a bit late to drain the swamp?

Kamper · 03-08-2015, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8gv

Ya but, ... ?

These are good if you have someone who checks your house. Not all leaks are geysers and may not be noticeable to somebody rushing through the house in the rubber shoes.

8gv · 03-08-2015, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

These are good if you have someone who checks your house. Not all leaks are geysers and may not be noticeable to somebody rushing through the house in the rubber shoes.

That's a good point. I was thinking in terms of catching the house before it freezes. The product FLL suggests would alert me to other types of leaks that could go unnoticed.

Thanks FLL!

upthesaukee · 03-08-2015, 05:35 PM

My folks had a light bulb fixture plugged into a wall socket. The bulb in the fixture was bright red. The fixture had a temperature sensor in it that caused the lamp to come on if temp went below 40 degrees (I think). It hung in the front window. All the neighbors on the street had their phone number and knew where the hidden key was kept.

If the light went on, they could go inside, make sure the furnace was ok, check the outside tank for oil, and if the heater could not be reset or restarted, they would call Dad and let him know.

Only happened once or twice, I know once because the oil tank ran dry. Never any damage thanks to good neighbors watching out for neighbors. they can sure help that damage like OP spoke of does not happen,.

SIKSUKR · 03-10-2015, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

My folks had a light bulb fixture plugged into a wall socket. The bulb in the fixture was bright red. The fixture had a temperature sensor in it that caused the lamp to come on if temp went below 40 degrees (I think). It hung in the front window. All the neighbors on the street had their phone number and knew where the hidden key was kept.

I have one of these in my ski house in Franconia.

TheProfessor · 03-10-2015, 06:45 PM

There are two internet based temperature sensors out there.
Will send you an email to you computer/pad and text message to your smart phone.

Not cheap. And you do need wifi internet on.

Do read the reviews on each.

Kamper · 03-10-2015, 07:46 PM

My new neighbors have one of those red-light thingies. For some reason it was on for a few days even though they, and many of their friends, were present. It must have been more serious than I thought because about 11 last night, the police came and evacuated them all in of those vans the Sherriff's department has.

02-28-2015, 08:00 AM	#1
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,090 Thanks: 64 Thanked 742 Times in 476 Posts	Frozen Home Advice Request My friend called me late last night with a cold house. The propane furnace had quit due to snow obstructing the exhaust vent. The house was 32*. A tech from the propane supplier got the furnace running again in less than an hour. Now the task of thawing and assessment has begun. So far he has found three cracked toilets. We suspect that his refrigerator (water/ice disp.), dishwasher and washing machine could be damaged. A larger concern is the pipes in the walls. They are pex. He has the furnace heating up the house and the water is turned off at the supply. Towels are in place around the toilets to catch the water as they thaw. He intends to call his insurance co. this morning. My questions: Does he just need a plumber or is this more of a Serv Pro type of job? Can someone recommend a plumber for him? Is pex better or worse than copper in this situation? Why did he not buy a cold house alarm when I told him about the one I had installed in my house?

02-28-2015, 08:08 AM	#2
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,734 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,005 Times in 733 Posts	www.spearsbrothers.com in Belmont is a good place for buying toilets. They have all sorts of recycled building items that came out of demolished buildings. ...just furgetabout Lowe's of Home Depot, and go to Spears! Can recall going to Spears .... and they had these medium brite green bathroom ...toilets and sinks....in hospital green....big sturdy green porcelain American Standard toilets that came out of some hospital in Hanover, NH.... for short money....u-know! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 02-28-2015 at 10:52 AM.

02-28-2015, 03:54 PM	#6
MOXIE Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 27 Thanks: 1 Thanked 12 Times in 7 Posts	Frozen House Pex is a lot more forgiving than copper. What can happen if pex is frozen is that it can blow the fitting away from the tubing. When thawing out a house, it is safer to thaw it very slowly. All the appliances listed could be damaged, but the hot water heater was not mentioned. also, if on a well, the expansion tank could be damaged. Before turning the water back on, the entire system should be pressurized with a compressor to check for damage. MOXIE

03-07-2015, 12:26 PM	#20
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,734 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,005 Times in 733 Posts	... $12.49 water leak alarm For about 12.49 (9v battery not included) the Lowe's in Gilford sells a small water leak detector that's about the size of two packs of cigarettes, powered by a 9v battery and makes a 105-db alarm that sounds for three days or so. It has two metal contacts on the bottom which are designed to be placed onto a carpet. Located in the back of the Lowe's in Gilford in the water pump area....seems like a good item... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

03-08-2015, 05:35 PM	#24
upthesaukee Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alton Bay Posts: 5,596 Blog Entries: 2 Thanks: 2,449 Thanked 1,979 Times in 1,080 Posts	Back in the 70's and early 80's... My folks had a light bulb fixture plugged into a wall socket. The bulb in the fixture was bright red. The fixture had a temperature sensor in it that caused the lamp to come on if temp went below 40 degrees (I think). It hung in the front window. All the neighbors on the street had their phone number and knew where the hidden key was kept. If the light went on, they could go inside, make sure the furnace was ok, check the outside tank for oil, and if the heater could not be reset or restarted, they would call Dad and let him know. Only happened once or twice, I know once because the oil tank ran dry. Never any damage thanks to good neighbors watching out for neighbors. they can sure help that damage like OP spoke of does not happen,. __________________ I Live Here... I am always UPTHESAUKEE !!!!

02-28-2015, 08:45 AM	#3
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	The PEX piping SHOULD be fine. I would remove the toilets while they are still frozen if it's not too late. More of a plumber issue unless there was any flooding from the busted toilets.

02-28-2015, 09:09 AM	#4
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,090 Thanks: 64 Thanked 742 Times in 476 Posts	So far he removed the frozen toilet tanks and wrapped towels around the bases.

02-28-2015, 09:22 AM	#5
pjard Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 635 Thanks: 490 Thanked 194 Times in 101 Posts	I would remove the bases of the toilets as well...usually two bolts....remove all doubt. I would call Penco in Gilford...they are great! 603-293-7157

02-28-2015, 05:04 PM	#7
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,090 Thanks: 64 Thanked 742 Times in 476 Posts	A plumber has been contacted. He intends to use air pressure to check for leaks. The water heater was on and thus not frozen. This all started with snow over the vent. For those who see their houses infrequently in the winter, get someone to clear out the vent area!!! Thanks for the responses!

03-01-2015, 08:18 PM	#9
secondcurve Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,117 Thanks: 1,324 Thanked 559 Times in 288 Posts	I use the below freeze alarm and it works great. It saved me twice this year. The biggest issue is if you your phone is via cable it will become disabled when the cable goes out. Land lines work best since they tend to become disabled less frequently than cable phone lines. Control Products Intermediate FreezeAlarm Custom Temperature and Power Outage Alarm FA-I-CCA with voice message to up to 3 phone numbers / Quick Status Check by Control Products

03-02-2015, 12:08 AM	#11
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,090 Thanks: 64 Thanked 742 Times in 476 Posts	So the final (he hopes) carnage report includes: Three toilets Refridgerator water filter Sprayer hose for sink I hope that's it!

The Following User Says Thank You to 8gv For This Useful Post:
secondcurve (03-02-2015)

03-02-2015, 12:39 PM	#17
Jersey Ed Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 24 Thanks: 231 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have been using the above mentioned "intermediate freeze alarm". for several years now. I first learned of it a number of years ago while lurking THIS VERY FORUM and couldn't be happier with the product. I use it in my second home in upstate New York which I keep heated all year long. Several points that have not been mentioned yet about the alarm:: you set the "alarm" conditions as you want them. Set the temp that you want to set-off the alarm [hi or low temp] Amount of time the power to the house has been off before the alarm is triggered and the condition of the back-up battery. You can call the unit as many times a day as you want to and you can change any of your settings from any other phone, you do not have to be at the unit location to make changes.

The Following User Says Thank You to Jersey Ed For This Useful Post:
secondcurve (03-02-2015)

03-03-2015, 05:52 AM	#18
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,302 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	Tell them don't throw anything away until they call their insurance agent. This job is likely to total way above the deductible if they have the coverage. Good luck!

03-03-2015, 01:48 PM	#19
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,090 Thanks: 64 Thanked 742 Times in 476 Posts	At the moment I think he's planning on eating the expense. Between the plumber and the toilets he should be above the deductible now. To me the real danger in eating it comes from finding out later that there is a leak in a wall. Tearing up the house to get it and the possibility of mold abatement could get costly.

The Following User Says Thank You to SIKSUKR For This Useful Post:
upthesaukee (03-10-2015)

03-10-2015, 06:45 PM	#26
TheProfessor Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,115 Thanks: 17 Thanked 340 Times in 205 Posts	There are two internet based temperature sensors out there. Will send you an email to you computer/pad and text message to your smart phone. Not cheap. And you do need wifi internet on. Do read the reviews on each.

03-10-2015, 07:46 PM	#27
Kamper Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Thornton's Ferry Posts: 1,302 Thanks: 67 Thanked 171 Times in 127 Posts	My new neighbors have one of those red-light thingies. For some reason it was on for a few days even though they, and many of their friends, were present. It must have been more serious than I thought because about 11 last night, the police came and evacuated them all in of those vans the Sherriff's department has.