Capacity/Capacity Plate Question

thinkxingu · 05-27-2015, 09:51 AM

Hi All,
My 'Toon has a capacity plate that says 11 people or 1800 pounds. In the next couple weeks, I'm planning on taking some friends and their children out. With three couples that have two children each, we'd be at 12 passengers and a rounded-up weight of 1300 pounds. Because of the size of the children, there's plenty of space to sit while underway.

My question: is this legal? I'm confident it's not overloading the boat for space and weight, but the 12 would exceed the capacity plate, and what I can find for wording is wishy-washy.

Thanks!

AC2717 · 05-27-2015, 10:35 AM

rule is that many people or that weight including property whichever comes first

Phantom · 05-27-2015, 10:57 AM

Agreed !

.

BroadHopper · 05-27-2015, 11:30 AM

my neighbor has a 12 person capacity 'toon and was cited for having 13. He claim that he was not a passenger, he was the skipper and the plate specifically stated passengers. Didn't go well with the officer and he was madder than heck and called the powers to be! Last I knew he lost.

Funny thing is he calls the marine patrol whenever he sees an infraction in rules. Yet, he does not practice what he preaches.

VitaBene · 05-27-2015, 01:03 PM

Remember that vessels over 26' in length do not carry a capacity plate. A vessel that size may, or may not, be "yacht certified" by NMMA.

Knomad · 05-27-2015, 02:12 PM

The maximum number of people your boat can carry safely in good weather is 11. That is also the maximum legal number of persons your boat can carry.

Phantom · 05-27-2015, 03:06 PM

and the debate begins !!

.

Happy Gourmand · 05-27-2015, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

and the debate begins !!

.

What's the debate? Nothing wishy-washy about it. The plate says MAXIMUM CAPACITY 11 PERSONS. The OP will be cited if he/she is stopped by the MP with more than 11 persons.

Phantom · 05-27-2015, 03:33 PM

I am not at the Marina but I am almost certain mine is similar to this web capture and the key word is "OR"

Phantom · 05-27-2015, 03:36 PM

Now this is confusing as Heck --

One "Official website states you cannot exceed "either" the person count or weight ..... another says you can

Your boat should have a capacity plate that tells you how many persons or pounds you can have on the boat. Manufacturers typically assume the weight of each person to be 150 pounds, so if you are taking small children or heavier adults, you need to adjust the number of people you can take. The capacity plate will also tell you the horsepower recommendations.

http://www.safeboatingcard.com/Manua...Chapter1_3.jsp

Another interesting fact is this question / debate came up in 2010 in this very Forum with no conclusion
http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10520

and Finally -- seems there are different versions of the Capacity plate. The below would indicate Max number of people as Gourmand indicates

.

Phantom · 05-27-2015, 03:49 PM

woops forgot pic

thinkxingu · 05-27-2015, 04:47 PM

This is my point exactly, Phantom--in the NH boating guide, it says, "SOME states prohibit exceeding the manufacturer's recommendations."

thinkxingu · 05-27-2015, 04:57 PM

From the BoatUS site:

"While it is not a Federal violation for a boat owner to exceed the listed capacities, many states do have statutes prohibiting the carriage of people and gear in excess of the stated capacity, or the installation
of a motor that exceeds the recommended horse power."

I know that I shouldn't overload the boat--I get that--but I'm struggling to think adding one 30-pound kid is an issue, which is why I'm asking about legality. I guess the other question is whether or not my capacity plate says "OR" in between number of passengers and weight.

Misha888 · 05-27-2015, 10:52 PM

Be sure the smallest child can fit in a storage compartment before you launch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Hi All,
My 'Toon has a capacity plate that says 11 people or 1800 pounds. In the next couple weeks, I'm planning on taking some friends and their children out. With three couples that have two children each, we'd be at 12 passengers and a rounded-up weight of 1300 pounds. Because of the size of the children, there's plenty of space to sit while underway.

My question: is this legal? I'm confident it's not overloading the boat for space and weight, but the 12 would exceed the capacity plate, and what I can find for wording is wishy-washy.

Thanks!

Nautique2001 · 05-28-2015, 09:42 AM

The capacity plate on my 11' Boston Whaler always makes me laugh:

"2.5 persons" or a poundage that I forget.

Where, the family joke has run for almost 40 years, do we find that 1/2 a person?

Rich · 05-28-2015, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

From the BoatUS site:

"While it is not a Federal violation for a boat owner to exceed the listed capacities, many states do have statutes prohibiting the carriage of people and gear in excess of the stated capacity, or the installation
of a motor that exceeds the recommended horse power."

I know that I shouldn't overload the boat--I get that--but I'm struggling to think adding one 30-pound kid is an issue, which is why I'm asking about legality. I guess the other question is whether or not my capacity plate says "OR" in between number of passengers and weight.

Want to avoid a ticket or fine? Call the Marine Patrol before you head out and get your answer. Then you can know who needs to stay home on the dock and who can come with you on the water.

Be safe!

camp guy · 05-28-2015, 12:02 PM

Although I am not a lawyer, my guess is that if you exceed the limits of the plate, and you are unfortunate enough to have an accident of any type, the fact that you have exceeded the limits of the plate my compromise your insurance coverage. That could be a real can of worms to sort out, especially if there were personal injury involved.

Just sayin'.

AC2717 · 05-28-2015, 12:42 PM

it would lead to you possibly being being more at fault
but insurance does cover stupdity

caloway · 05-28-2015, 12:48 PM

Equally useless info: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10520

thinkxingu · 05-28-2015, 04:08 PM

I'll be checking out my plate's wording and getting back to y'all early next week!

ApS · 05-28-2015, 05:08 PM

A better argument (than passengers + skipper) could be made based on the Coast Guard's fairly recent change in the rating of capacity:

Quote:

The U.S. Coast Guard feels the U.S. people have gotten fatter over time,” said Capt. Ed Sparrow, owner of a Miami-based charter yacht called Holiday of Magic. Its legal capacity has shrunk from 49 to 35 passengers.

On Dec. 1 of this year, an amended federal rule took effect that recalibrated the average weight of a passenger at 185, a 25-pound jump.

TWIN TRAGEDIES

The revamped weight standard applies to all passengers, regardless of gender, and was based on a 2004 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that found the average male, 20-75 years of age, weighs in at 191 pounds, up from 166 pounds in 1960. For women, the tally went from 140 to 164.

The call for change stemmed from two boating tragedies. In March 2004, a pontoon water taxi called Lady D overturned in Baltimore Harbor with 25 aboard. Five people died; four were severely injured.

In October 2005, a monachal called Ethan Allen sunk in 70 feet of water on Lake George in New York while carrying 49 passengers. Twenty elderly people died.

In both cases, the vessels were carrying the proper number of passengers but an excess amount of weight. Those accidents shined a spotlight on the antiquated assumed weight, which was a puny 140 pounds for boats that cruised solely on “protected waters” such as rivers and lakes.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...y-sinks/nL2NG/

Blame McDonald's...

JasonG · 05-31-2015, 05:56 AM

What about liability? Lets face it, many times those plates are leaning on the side of caution, and I do get that.

But if the capacity is 10 adults, and you have 6 adults and 6 kids, you are likely OK, assuming everyone had a seat...but what about liability? If there was ever a problem, and someone is getting sued, are you as the boat owner shifting liability toward yourself by exceeding capacity?

AC2717 · 06-01-2015, 01:06 PM

insurance does not exclude stupidity, but does exclude criminal intentional acts, not the answer you are looking for, so the main answer is
it all depends

Misha888 · 06-01-2015, 04:07 PM

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/.../ch...oats-faces.../

Dave R · 06-01-2015, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonG

What about liability? Lets face it, many times those plates are leaning on the side of caution, and I do get that.

But if the capacity is 10 adults, and you have 6 adults and 6 kids, you are likely OK, assuming everyone had a seat...but what about liability? If there was ever a problem, and someone is getting sued, are you as the boat owner shifting liability toward yourself by exceeding capacity?

Depends entirely on the cause of the "problem". If a drunk crashes into an "overloaded" boat, the drunk operator that did the crashing would be liable. If the overloaded boat capsized due to stability issues, the liability would likely fall squarely on the shoulders of the captain of the overloaded boat.

Rich · 06-01-2015, 07:08 PM

This discussion reminds me of the one I hear from some people about speeding tickets.

They say the road and their car was designed to handle a speed of (pick your speed), but the ticket was issued for less than that speed, and the road was wide open and it was a sunny, dry day at the time of their ticket.

Good luck using that excuse to get the ticket dismissed.

How do you think these many arguments are going to hold up if the MP stops you for having either too many people (by count) or too much weight in your boat if there is a capacity plate on your boat? Of course, I don't think the MP rides around with a scale to weigh all your passengers, but even so, don't over load your boat, especially if there is a capacity plate.

SeaWassp · 06-01-2015, 08:10 PM

Why not call the Marine Patrol directly and ask them. That will end the debate. Also good info for us all to know.

Rich · 06-01-2015, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaWassp

Why not call the Marine Patrol directly and ask them. That will end the debate. Also good info for us all to know.

I tried suggesting that once already:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich

Want to avoid a ticket or fine? Call the Marine Patrol before you head out and get your answer. Then you can know who needs to stay home on the dock and who can come with you on the water.

But obviously it's not as fun as debating/discussing it here! LOL

Misty Blue · 06-12-2015, 02:11 PM

The argument that the "Captain" does not count is all wet. (No pun intended, well, maybe) And I use the term "Captain" to let him know who is responsible for the safety of all on board and that the vessel meets all standards.

The capacity plate indicates "PERSPONS" not passengers. Stupid argument that will only P-off the officer.

The 185 pound thing caught me by surprise. I usually keep up on these things but the capacity plate in the previous post implies 200# per person. (7 persons or 1400#) I will do some research on that.

I can't stress enough the maximum capacity. The power company uses boats to service the islands. (Great guys) They are also BIG guys. When they are taking a 300# transformer to the island they must deduct that weight from the max and make adjustments for their burly linemen.

All of the commercial vessels that I operate are de-rated in the "persons" limit to account for customers who do not fit into the 150# limit that was assumed when the name plate was installed.

Hope this helps.

Misty Blue

05-27-2015, 09:51 AM	#1
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,187 Thanks: 1,165 Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,266 Posts	Capacity/Capacity Plate Question Hi All, My 'Toon has a capacity plate that says 11 people or 1800 pounds. In the next couple weeks, I'm planning on taking some friends and their children out. With three couples that have two children each, we'd be at 12 passengers and a rounded-up weight of 1300 pounds. Because of the size of the children, there's plenty of space to sit while underway. My question: is this legal? I'm confident it's not overloading the boat for space and weight, but the 12 would exceed the capacity plate, and what I can find for wording is wishy-washy. Thanks!

05-27-2015, 10:35 AM	#2
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,564 Thanks: 753 Thanked 353 Times in 265 Posts	rule is that many people or that weight including property whichever comes first __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

05-27-2015, 10:57 AM	#3
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Agreed ! . __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

05-27-2015, 11:30 AM	#4
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,568 Thanks: 3,199 Thanked 1,099 Times in 792 Posts	The above is correct my neighbor has a 12 person capacity 'toon and was cited for having 13. He claim that he was not a passenger, he was the skipper and the plate specifically stated passengers. Didn't go well with the officer and he was madder than heck and called the powers to be! Last I knew he lost. Funny thing is he calls the marine patrol whenever he sees an infraction in rules. Yet, he does not practice what he preaches. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

05-27-2015, 03:06 PM	#7
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	and the debate begins !! . __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

The Following User Says Thank You to AC2717 For This Useful Post:
BroadHopper (05-27-2015)

05-27-2015, 01:03 PM	#5
VitaBene Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 3,571 Thanks: 1,600 Thanked 1,629 Times in 837 Posts	Remember that vessels over 26' in length do not carry a capacity plate. A vessel that size may, or may not, be "yacht certified" by NMMA.

05-27-2015, 02:12 PM	#6
Knomad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Center Tuftonboro Posts: 174 Thanks: 0 Thanked 33 Times in 19 Posts	The maximum number of people your boat can carry safely in good weather is 11. That is also the maximum legal number of persons your boat can carry.

The Following User Says Thank You to Happy Gourmand For This Useful Post:
SAB1 (05-27-2015)

05-27-2015, 03:33 PM	#9
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	I am not at the Marina but I am almost certain mine is similar to this web capture and the key word is "OR" Attached Images __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

05-27-2015, 03:36 PM	#10
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	Now this is confusing as Heck -- One "Official website states you cannot exceed "either" the person count or weight ..... another says you can Your boat should have a capacity plate that tells you how many persons or pounds you can have on the boat. Manufacturers typically assume the weight of each person to be 150 pounds, so if you are taking small children or heavier adults, you need to adjust the number of people you can take. The capacity plate will also tell you the horsepower recommendations. http://www.safeboatingcard.com/Manua...Chapter1_3.jsp Another interesting fact is this question / debate came up in 2010 in this very Forum with no conclusion http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10520 and Finally -- seems there are different versions of the Capacity plate. The below would indicate Max number of people as Gourmand indicates . __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

05-27-2015, 03:49 PM	#11
Phantom Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Berlin, Ma / Gilford Posts: 1,934 Thanks: 450 Thanked 605 Times in 341 Posts	woops forgot pic Attached Images __________________ *A bad day on the Big Lake (although I've never had one) - Still beats a day at the office!!*

05-27-2015, 04:47 PM	#12
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,187 Thanks: 1,165 Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,266 Posts	This is my point exactly, Phantom--in the NH boating guide, it says, "SOME states prohibit exceeding the manufacturer's recommendations."

05-27-2015, 04:57 PM	#13
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,187 Thanks: 1,165 Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,266 Posts	From the BoatUS site: "While it is not a Federal violation for a boat owner to exceed the listed capacities, many states do have statutes prohibiting the carriage of people and gear in excess of the stated capacity, or the installation of a motor that exceeds the recommended horse power." I know that I shouldn't overload the boat--I get that--but I'm struggling to think adding one 30-pound kid is an issue, which is why I'm asking about legality. I guess the other question is whether or not my capacity plate says "OR" in between number of passengers and weight.

The Following User Says Thank You to Misha888 For This Useful Post:
Phantom (05-28-2015)

05-28-2015, 09:42 AM	#15
Nautique2001 Member Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 24 Thanks: 6 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts	Common sense vs. regulations The capacity plate on my 11' Boston Whaler always makes me laugh: "2.5 persons" or a poundage that I forget. Where, the family joke has run for almost 40 years, do we find that 1/2 a person?

05-28-2015, 12:02 PM	#17
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,173 Thanks: 298 Thanked 521 Times in 290 Posts	Capacity/Capacity Plate... Although I am not a lawyer, my guess is that if you exceed the limits of the plate, and you are unfortunate enough to have an accident of any type, the fact that you have exceeded the limits of the plate my compromise your insurance coverage. That could be a real can of worms to sort out, especially if there were personal injury involved. Just sayin'.

05-28-2015, 12:42 PM	#18
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,564 Thanks: 753 Thanked 353 Times in 265 Posts	it would lead to you possibly being being more at fault but insurance does cover stupdity __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AC2717 For This Useful Post:
Dave R (05-28-2015), Misha888 (05-28-2015)

05-28-2015, 12:48 PM	#19
caloway Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: exeter, nh Posts: 73 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	Make sure everyone pees before coming aboard Equally useless info: http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=10520

05-28-2015, 04:08 PM	#20
thinkxingu Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 6,187 Thanks: 1,165 Thanked 2,043 Times in 1,266 Posts	I'll be checking out my plate's wording and getting back to y'all early next week!

05-31-2015, 05:56 AM	#22
JasonG Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 310 Thanks: 48 Thanked 45 Times in 33 Posts	What about liability? Lets face it, many times those plates are leaning on the side of caution, and I do get that. But if the capacity is 10 adults, and you have 6 adults and 6 kids, you are likely OK, assuming everyone had a seat...but what about liability? If there was ever a problem, and someone is getting sued, are you as the boat owner shifting liability toward yourself by exceeding capacity?

06-01-2015, 01:06 PM	#23
AC2717 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maynard, MA & Paugus Bay Posts: 2,564 Thanks: 753 Thanked 353 Times in 265 Posts	insurance does not exclude stupidity, but does exclude criminal intentional acts, not the answer you are looking for, so the main answer is it all depends __________________ Capt. of the "No Worries"

06-01-2015, 04:07 PM	#24
Misha888 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gilford, NH Posts: 340 Thanks: 280 Thanked 90 Times in 62 Posts	No one is immune . . . http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/.../ch...oats-faces.../ __________________ ☮ _/♥\_ & (✿ˆ◡ˆ✿)

06-01-2015, 07:08 PM	#26
Rich Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Derry / Gilford Posts: 1,242 Thanks: 70 Thanked 344 Times in 234 Posts	This discussion reminds me of the one I hear from some people about speeding tickets. They say the road and their car was designed to handle a speed of (pick your speed), but the ticket was issued for less than that speed, and the road was wide open and it was a sunny, dry day at the time of their ticket. Good luck using that excuse to get the ticket dismissed. How do you think these many arguments are going to hold up if the MP stops you for having either too many people (by count) or too much weight in your boat if there is a capacity plate on your boat? Of course, I don't think the MP rides around with a scale to weigh all your passengers, but even so, don't over load your boat, especially if there is a capacity plate. __________________ Don't listen to me, obviously I don't understand what I'm talking about! Let's help each other save time and money: WinniGas.com

06-01-2015, 08:10 PM	#27
SeaWassp Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Why not call the Marine Patrol directly and ask them. That will end the debate. Also good info for us all to know.

06-12-2015, 02:11 PM	#29
Misty Blue Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 658 Thanks: 121 Thanked 283 Times in 98 Posts	Max capacity The argument that the "Captain" does not count is all wet. (No pun intended, well, maybe) And I use the term "Captain" to let him know who is responsible for the safety of all on board and that the vessel meets all standards. The capacity plate indicates "PERSPONS" not passengers. Stupid argument that will only P-off the officer. The 185 pound thing caught me by surprise. I usually keep up on these things but the capacity plate in the previous post implies 200# per person. (7 persons or 1400#) I will do some research on that. I can't stress enough the maximum capacity. The power company uses boats to service the islands. (Great guys) They are also BIG guys. When they are taking a 300# transformer to the island they must deduct that weight from the max and make adjustments for their burly linemen. All of the commercial vessels that I operate are de-rated in the "persons" limit to account for customers who do not fit into the 150# limit that was assumed when the name plate was installed. Hope this helps. Misty Blue