NHSA dream has ended

WINNOCTURN · 05-05-2017, 12:33 AM

Link to SLedNH

NHSA's Court Complaint to Stop the AG from investigating 2 Consumer Complaints.

Open Note on page 1 that sums up the Superior Courts Ruling.
Note 1.doc

Link to Thread on SLedNH

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101201

ITD · 05-05-2017, 08:01 AM

I have no idea what this is about and I can't figure it out from these links, please explain.

chipj29 · 05-05-2017, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

I have no idea what this is about and I can't figure it out from these links, please explain.

A lawsuit that NHSA had filed was rejected by the court.

I have no idea what the thread title means.

ITD · 05-05-2017, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

A lawsuit that NHSA had filed was rejected by the court.

I have no idea what the thread title means.

What was the lawsuit about?

chipj29 · 05-05-2017, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITD

What was the lawsuit about?

I don't know the details...so take this for what it is worth (not much).
When NHSA created the electronic/online membership portal, they set the membership fees for the clubs at $35. This was to avoid some clubs charging way less (or way more) than other clubs. Clubs were given the option to participate in the online membership portal, and if so they would charge the same $35. Some clubs declined to participate, so those clubs can set their own membership fees.
The NH AG's office was looking at NHSA for potential anti-trust violation. Where this came from I am not 100% sure, but I suspect it was reported by some of the non-participating clubs.
Then NHSA filed a lawsuit I think to stop the AG investigation. This is the lawsuit that was just rejected by the court. But this is the part that is fuzzy to me.

What is not fuzzy to me is that the thread title is misleading.

ishoot308 · 05-05-2017, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

I don't know the details...so take this for what it is worth (not much).
When NHSA created the electronic/online membership portal, they set the membership fees for the clubs at $35. This was to avoid some clubs charging way less (or way more) than other clubs. Clubs were given the option to participate in the online membership portal, and if so they would charge the same $35. Some clubs declined to participate, so those clubs can set their own membership fees.
The NH AG's office was looking at NHSA for potential anti-trust violation. Where this came from I am not 100% sure, but I suspect it was reported by some of the non-participating clubs.
Then NHSA filed a lawsuit I think to stop the AG investigation. This is the lawsuit that was just rejected by the court. But this is the part that is fuzzy to me.

What is not fuzzy to me is that the thread title is misleading.

What never ceases to amaze me is how too many cooks always spoil the soup!

What was wrong with the tried and true old method of simply joining your local club then simply showing your membership card when registering to get the discount? This worked fine for years! Now lets get all these organizations involved that want a piece of the pie to ruin a real simple thing! Amazing!

LIforrelaxin · 05-05-2017, 10:59 AM

So, this thread intrigued me, first because, once I am done raising my two sons and am not busy with High School sports I hope to get into snowmobiling, and two because I love NH, that is where I would plan to do a lot of my snowmobiling.

In visiting the the NHSA website, I am struck by the fact that there is no noted vision statement for the organization. On top of which there is no clear indication on what currently the organization is work towards for goals over the next year or two. These things are paramount, for a successful organization.

From what I read in the SledNH thread from Winnocturn. There seem to be some issues with the organization itself and the current board of directors. The problem with non-profits is that with out proper policing, they often run foul of their intentions, especially once they start to have paid full time employees, which seems to be the case here.

Myself personally, would find it hard to support an organization, with out a strong Mission Statement, and a proper 1 year and 5 year plan. But Hey that is the business man in me.

Now more to what the issue seem to be here, is that the NHSA was trying to blanket price the cost of membership.... Well that indeed is price fixing... And if all clubs in the state must belong to NHSA, and use the online NHSA app for membership then it is in deed a Monopoly. However I don't believe that either of those statements are true. However there is no reason why the AG, can't launch a investigation into the organization, that is the right of the AG office. The fact that a non-profit organization would legally try to fight an investigation, tells me that there is something going on behind the scenes and would only serve to draw more attention from the AG's office.

People should be looking at the NHSA with the following questions, to understand the importance of this group:
1. What is the organization doing to help me as a snowmobiler or my club?
2. What is the organization doing to make the hobby of snowmobiling more inviting in NH?
3. What are the long term objects for the organization, to continue to make NH a premier snowmobile destination...

These questions aren't answered easily on the website.... and they should be.

ITD · 05-05-2017, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipj29

I don't know the details...so take this for what it is worth (not much).
When NHSA created the electronic/online membership portal, they set the membership fees for the clubs at $35. This was to avoid some clubs charging way less (or way more) than other clubs. Clubs were given the option to participate in the online membership portal, and if so they would charge the same $35. Some clubs declined to participate, so those clubs can set their own membership fees.
The NH AG's office was looking at NHSA for potential anti-trust violation. Where this came from I am not 100% sure, but I suspect it was reported by some of the non-participating clubs.
Then NHSA filed a lawsuit I think to stop the AG investigation. This is the lawsuit that was just rejected by the court. But this is the part that is fuzzy to me.

What is not fuzzy to me is that the thread title is misleading.

Thanks for the explanation. You know I'm using the Microsoft edge browser included in windows 10 and sometimes links don't load correctly.... I went back and was able to read the string Winnocturn posted. Why can't we all just get along.... and focus on what is best snowmobiling in NH.

MAXUM · 05-05-2017, 02:23 PM

It was my understanding - albeit could be wrong here - the NHSA was in place to roll up the common interests of all clubs into a much larger group that would have a little more influence just because they represent a larger constituency. How the organizational components end up being structured is a different story but it certainly sounds like the association with what they have done injected some requirements/restrictions that aren't necessarily beneficial to all involved and no doubt why some clubs have opted out especially if there is no perceived benefit from participating.

I think in theory the idea of the NHSA makes sense but the execution appears to need a little tweaking.

WINNOCTURN · 05-05-2017, 04:18 PM

Registration Increase

We need to get NHSA out of The Registration Discount Business!

We need to amend the present RSA to say you must be a Member of a Nonprofit Snowmobile Club, Registered with The Attorney Generals Office or which ever branch of state Government is appropriate to cover the Discounts.

I wrote Major Wimsatt a letter several months ago question NHSA ability to SELL or OFFER Registration Discounts based on how the present RSA is worded. It is my position the ability to offer the Discount is the Privileged, "not Write" of a "CLUB", not an association!

You have to be a member of a "CLUB" that is a member of NHSA. NHSA has added to this you must be an individual Member of NHSA along with being a Member of a Club when you join a Club through the NHSA/CLUB Membership website.

I do not know of any "ADMINISTRATIVE Rule" that may have been set up to give NHSA the ability to offer Registration Discounts.

Read the RSA and tell me if i am wrong in MY way of thinking on this issue.

Section 215-C:39

215-C:39 Registration Fees. – The fees to be collected under this chapter are as follows:

I. Individual resident registration--$90 for each snowmobile registration upon presentation of a valid driver's license issued to a New Hampshire resident 18 years of age or older. An individual resident registering a snowmobile who provides proof, at the time of registration, that the individual is a member of an organized New Hampshire nonprofit SNOWMOBILE CLUB which is a member of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association shall pay $60 for each snowmobile.

No where in the RSA does it say the CLUB MEMBER needs to be a Member of NHSA!

We need to change the WORDING

Skip,

How can we do this and how FAST. This needs to be done irregardless of the outcome of the pending "Consumer Complaints now in front of the Attorney General!

Part 2 UPDATE

I just noticed the phrase about a Club being in "GOOD STANDING" with NHSA is not in the RSA?

Link:

http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101216

ITD · 05-05-2017, 05:15 PM

I'm glad you are on this Winnocturn, thank you.

05-05-2017, 12:33 AM	#1
WINNOCTURN Deceased Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Moultonboro Posts: 849 Thanks: 350 Thanked 351 Times in 193 Posts	NHSA dream has ended Link to SLedNH NHSA's Court Complaint to Stop the AG from investigating 2 Consumer Complaints. Open Note on page 1 that sums up the Superior Courts Ruling. Note 1.doc Link to Thread on SLedNH http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101201

05-05-2017, 10:59 AM	#7
LIforrelaxin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas, Lake Ray Hubbard and NH, Long Island Winnipesaukee Posts: 2,855 Thanks: 1,033 Thanked 891 Times in 523 Posts	So, this thread intrigued me, first because, once I am done raising my two sons and am not busy with High School sports I hope to get into snowmobiling, and two because I love NH, that is where I would plan to do a lot of my snowmobiling. In visiting the the NHSA website, I am struck by the fact that there is no noted vision statement for the organization. On top of which there is no clear indication on what currently the organization is work towards for goals over the next year or two. These things are paramount, for a successful organization. From what I read in the SledNH thread from Winnocturn. There seem to be some issues with the organization itself and the current board of directors. The problem with non-profits is that with out proper policing, they often run foul of their intentions, especially once they start to have paid full time employees, which seems to be the case here. Myself personally, would find it hard to support an organization, with out a strong Mission Statement, and a proper 1 year and 5 year plan. But Hey that is the business man in me. Now more to what the issue seem to be here, is that the NHSA was trying to blanket price the cost of membership.... Well that indeed is price fixing... And if all clubs in the state must belong to NHSA, and use the online NHSA app for membership then it is in deed a Monopoly. However I don't believe that either of those statements are true. However there is no reason why the AG, can't launch a investigation into the organization, that is the right of the AG office. The fact that a non-profit organization would legally try to fight an investigation, tells me that there is something going on behind the scenes and would only serve to draw more attention from the AG's office. People should be looking at the NHSA with the following questions, to understand the importance of this group: 1. What is the organization doing to help me as a snowmobiler or my club? 2. What is the organization doing to make the hobby of snowmobiling more inviting in NH? 3. What are the long term objects for the organization, to continue to make NH a premier snowmobile destination... These questions aren't answered easily on the website.... and they should be. __________________ Life is about how much time you can spend relaxing... I do it on an island that isn't really an island.....

05-05-2017, 04:18 PM	#10
WINNOCTURN Deceased Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Moultonboro Posts: 849 Thanks: 350 Thanked 351 Times in 193 Posts	Just posted this on SLedNH, Registration Increase Registration Increase We need to get NHSA out of The Registration Discount Business! We need to amend the present RSA to say you must be a Member of a Nonprofit Snowmobile Club, Registered with The Attorney Generals Office or which ever branch of state Government is appropriate to cover the Discounts. I wrote Major Wimsatt a letter several months ago question NHSA ability to SELL or OFFER Registration Discounts based on how the present RSA is worded. It is my position the ability to offer the Discount is the Privileged, "not Write" of a "CLUB", not an association! You have to be a member of a "CLUB" that is a member of NHSA. NHSA has added to this you must be an individual Member of NHSA along with being a Member of a Club when you join a Club through the NHSA/CLUB Membership website. I do not know of any "ADMINISTRATIVE Rule" that may have been set up to give NHSA the ability to offer Registration Discounts. Read the RSA and tell me if i am wrong in MY way of thinking on this issue. Section 215-C:39 215-C:39 Registration Fees. – The fees to be collected under this chapter are as follows: I. Individual resident registration--$90 for each snowmobile registration upon presentation of a valid driver's license issued to a New Hampshire resident 18 years of age or older. An individual resident registering a snowmobile who provides proof, at the time of registration, that the individual is a member of an organized New Hampshire nonprofit SNOWMOBILE CLUB which is a member of the New Hampshire Snowmobile Association shall pay $60 for each snowmobile. No where in the RSA does it say the CLUB MEMBER needs to be a Member of NHSA! We need to change the WORDING Skip, How can we do this and how FAST. This needs to be done irregardless of the outcome of the pending "Consumer Complaints now in front of the Attorney General! Part 2 UPDATE I just noticed the phrase about a Club being in "GOOD STANDING" with NHSA is not in the RSA? Link: http://www.slednh.com/forums/index.p...comment-101216

05-05-2017, 08:01 AM	#2
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,919 Thanks: 475 Thanked 687 Times in 384 Posts	I have no idea what this is about and I can't figure it out from these links, please explain.

The Following User Says Thank You to chipj29 For This Useful Post:
ITD (05-05-2017)

The Following User Says Thank You to ishoot308 For This Useful Post:
WINNOCTURN (05-05-2017)

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WINNOCTURN (05-05-2017)

05-05-2017, 02:23 PM	#9
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	It was my understanding - albeit could be wrong here - the NHSA was in place to roll up the common interests of all clubs into a much larger group that would have a little more influence just because they represent a larger constituency. How the organizational components end up being structured is a different story but it certainly sounds like the association with what they have done injected some requirements/restrictions that aren't necessarily beneficial to all involved and no doubt why some clubs have opted out especially if there is no perceived benefit from participating. I think in theory the idea of the NHSA makes sense but the execution appears to need a little tweaking.

The Following User Says Thank You to MAXUM For This Useful Post:
WINNOCTURN (05-05-2017)

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WINNOCTURN For This Useful Post:
ishoot308 (05-05-2017), trfour (05-08-2017)

05-05-2017, 05:15 PM	#11
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,919 Thanks: 475 Thanked 687 Times in 384 Posts	I'm glad you are on this Winnocturn, thank you.