Bahre's Resort

[BroadHopper]

Check out this article in the Citizen.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...072/-1/CITIZEN

I'm surprise the barndoor people would rather pay the high property tax rather than allow Bahre to help pay for it. Construction noise is only a temporary issue unless Bahre decides to go into the construction business. (He might as well.)

[Pineedles]

I would think that the addition of a "garage" albeit large one, would not further the nuisance factor past the construction period as you say Broadhopper. What I find perplexing is the people who are quoted in the article who don't seem to have a connection to Bahre other than being in the affected area, supporting his project.
What the barndoor people probably should go after is excessive decibels in a residential area caused by the heliocopter. I feel for the Barndoor Islanders as I'm sure no one would want the boat or air traffic that is destroying their peace and tranquility.

[DRH]

There doesn't appear to be anything that can be done about helicopter noise. The minimum altitude restrictions that apply to airplanes don't apply to helicopters, and there are no legal restrictions concerning a helicopter flying over a residential area unless it is posing a verifiable danger to people or property on the ground. My neighborhood went through this issue last year and we were informed of these facts by the FAA.

[gtxrider]

There is lots of land around NHIS why not build there?

[Aquadeziac]

Here is an article in todays Concord Monitor:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...511250312/1031

The drawing that accompanied it in the paper shows it almost as big as a football field and 45' tall. Can they hide that like those cell-phone towers and make it look like a tree?

And if it truely is a museum, doesn't it need to be open to the public? And not just one day a year. Isn't the best place for that at the track.....where all the cars are?

[ghfromaltonbay]

According to the article, there is a once a year fundraiser at his facility in Maine, but it also mentions that he has school field trips as well for students to see his collection. Couldn't school busloads of kids make their field trips to Loudon instead of into a residential area? I would think the NHIS track property is more suited for this use and the kids could see the whole operation. If Mr. Bahre gets a craving to go see his toys, then he could just hop on the helicopter and be at the track in a matter of minutes.

[Waterbaby]

At 45' tall, that building would be approximately the equivalent of 5 stories.......... and that's pretty darned tall, especially in a residential area! (And yes, I know the Bahre mansion is probably at least that height.) I have to wonder if the town of Alton has a ladder truck that could even come close to reaching the roof in case of fire. Kensington, the town in which I live, implemented a height restriction on new buildings a few years back due to the construction of a new home in town which well exceeded the height our ladder truck could reach due to potential liabilities....... perhaps an Alton resident would be reading this and write a warrant article for Town Meeting in March. They'd better hurry, though, the deadline for submitting warrant articles is sometime in early to mid January, I believe!

[upthesaukee]

Alton voted against continuing with the town meeting form of government and decided to become an SB2 town government. That means that all warrants will be discussed at a "deliberative session" in February, and will be on the election ballot in March. No more election one day (part 1 of Town Meeting) with Town Meeting (part 2) the next night.

[Kevin C]

Just a word about his Maine property. I've been to his garage and it is very tastefully done and blends in with the local village environment.....

[secondcurve]

Just like his house on the lake?

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Kevin C

Just a word about his Maine property. I've been to his garage and it is very tastefully done and blends in with the local village environment.....

Perhaps they have zoning requirements in Maine and structures need to fit in with the rest of the town or was it a pre-existing building?

[GTO]

Be thankful he doesn't collect boats. He would be seeking a variance for dock space in front of his place twice the size of the Merideth town docks.

[Aquadeziac]

Whats the problem? Just ask Loudon. Theres a town with no buildings over two stories, yet they have a 100' ladder truck. And how did they get that?? Mr Bahre donated it to the town! That and the fact that his grandstands were in jeopardy. Why doesn't he just sweeten that pot-o' shopping center he is giving Alton with a new ladder truck, which coincidentally would reach the top of his new Museum? Hell, if he gives Alton enough "stuff", he'll get all the variances and approvals he wants.

[jmarshall753]

From what I had read when they were looking to build the grandstands, the fire chief stated that they could not be built that high. This was said to be because that current ladder truck could not reach that high. Mr. Bahre's proposal was to donate a ladder truck that was sizable enough.

[Woodsy]

I wonder if people complained this vociferously when they were building Castle in The Clouds, or Kimball Castle?

I really don't see what the issue is here. Why is this anyone's concern? Mr. Bahre bought the camp property, after it was offered to the town and other conservation groups at a discounted price. They politely declined to purchase the property. Now, while I agree it is a grand mansion, with a proposed guest house along the lines of those found in Newport RI, I don't see it as an eyesore, just another big house on the lake. Its Mr. Bahre's propert to do with as he pleases. If the variances are granted by the Town of Alton, it isn't any concern of mine. It's not like he has gone off the deep end and painted it Fuscia! There are alot worse things he could do with the property.

Woodsy

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I wonder if people complained this vociferously when they were building Castle in The Clouds, or Kimball Castle?

That, Woodsy, is a good question! Too bad the newspaper archives aren’t more readily available.

While I am not thrilled to have more building on the lake, I would rather have someone like Mr. Bahre who does a classy, top notch job of it. His estate is so much nicer to look at than condominiums or a housing development.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I wonder if people complained this vociferously when they were building Castle in The Clouds, or Kimball Castle?

Looked at a period map of Lake Winnipesaukee? In those days, they put little black blocks to indicate the location of residents' houses.

Back when Castle in the Clouds was being built, there were hardly any people — much less, "people complaining vociferously"!

I can certainly understand Bahre's neighbors' griping: These McMansions are never finished!

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

I feel for the Barndoor Islanders as I'm sure no one would want the boat or air traffic that is destroying their peace and tranquility.

However, I don't disagree that the structures that have, and will be built by wealthy individuals around the lake will be superior to condo developments. This said:

APS referred to the vociferous objection that has ensued over this landowners building project today. Marshall McLuhan never had any idea where his "the medium is the message" would take us. I believe that there is no such thing as the silent majority (thank gawd) anymore and Forums like this are eveidence that even the meek can make their objections known to others.

[Cookie]

Alot of these people posting these response have not a clue. First of all The Bahre family has given so much back to so many people as well as communities! They go out of there way to work at the track and always greet everyone with a smile that says alot! So why does'nt everone stop being jelouse and appriecate all they do year round I mind you! They will always do right by people they have worked hard and honest for the finer things and they deserve it! And its not Mr Bahre, Its Bob he really is just a everyday great guy!

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I wonder if people complained this vociferously when they were building Castle in The Clouds, or Kimball Castle?

Woodsy

Originally Posted by Acres Per Second

Back when Castle in the Clouds was being built, there were hardly any people — much less, "people complaining vociferously"!

In contrast to Bob Bahre, Thomas Plante was perhaps not such a good neighbor and, indeed, was 'ruthless' in his quest to acquire all the property between his castle and the Lake. Not all of his neighbors acquiesced easily. The commentary below is provided by dcr (of photopost "fame")

"Mr. Plant was so disgruntled by his being unable to purchase this last hold on the mountain community that he put up a 20 ft spite fence several hundred feet in length which blocked the view of the lake from the Lee's home.Buildings (part of the Weelahka Hall complex of Ossipee Park) within sight were splashed with black paint (and painted with "hideous figures" of several kinds). This, and other things (other things could have included a death in the family - I don't know about that), finally made the Lees sell, at their price, the property they had owned since 1748. They moved to Moultonboro Falls on the Sheridan Road November 1, 1913."

The Spite Fence

Weelahka Hall in the Ossipee Mountains housed many of the workers who constructed Thomas Plant's "Lucknow"; estate or Castle in the Clouds. When construction was completed, Plant relentlessly attempted to buy all of the land between the castle and the lake. When the owners of Weelahka refused Plant had his workmen build a 'spite wall' between Weelahka and the lake obstructing their view and convincing them to sell the property.
I was unsure of my source for the above info so I wrote to dcr of photopost who I know does a lot of work at the Castle. Here is what he had to say, "The spite fence was one of the least pleasant tactics Tom Plant employed as he built his 6300 acre estate in the Ossipee Mt area. He owned from the high ridge of the Ossipees all the way down to the shores of Winnipesaukee ( close to 5 mi from mountaintop to lake, with more than a mile of lake front property on which he eventually built the Bald Peak Colony Club). One newspaper story called that a bigger estate than some owned by the lords and ladies of England - the paper christened Plant the Earl of Ossipee.

His confrontation leading to the spite fence was with the Lee family, whose ancestors were the first settlers up high on the mountainside meadow. The Lees had been there since a little before the 1790's, so you might expect that they had some attachment to the land. Plant offered them a price, but they countered with a price of their own which Plant wouldn't initially meet - and thus the fray was joined. Eventually Plant had to concede to their price, in spite of the spite fence. The Lees and the mountainside farming community that grew up around them, of which they were the acknowledged patriarchs, had a rich and interesting history of its own, with people like Whittier, Lucy Larcom and Robert Frost spending summers there in the late 1800's - not to mention the interesting exploits of some of the mountain people themselves.

The Lees had very good relations with the previous land baron, B F Shaw, the developer of Ossipee Mountain Park and the creator of Weelahka Hall, and made part of their living providing the hotel he built with fresh farm produce. By the time of the spite fence, however, Shaw was dead and the family had sold the business. Plant owned Weelakha Hall during the spite fence controversy, and he used it to house some of the around 1000 workers he had on the property for the couple of years it took to build the "castle"; (he never called it that) and the system of carriage roads, stables, gate houses, etc that were part of his grand design. After the construction was complete, he razed the Hall and every other old building in the immediate vicinity so that he could build himself a private 9-hole golf course.

By visiting the Moultonboro Library you can find quite a bit of information about the Lee Settlement and the Ossipee Park and Plant eras as well. A small booklet called The Mountain People of Moultonboro gives interesting details of the Lee settlement and maybe a picture of the spite fence, altho I'm not sure of that. The library has a lot of info on the Ossipee Park and Plant eras and somewhere in the library I have seen a picture of the famous spite fence, perhaps in an old copy of a Boston newspaper. I recall that it was built in a helter-skelter fashion (to make it look as ugly as possible, I suppose) and had some not too pleasant Halloween-type pictures painted on parts of it."
thanks dcr!!!!

My guess is no permit was requested from the Moultonboro Selectmen to construct the fence! McD

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Cookie

Alot of these people posting these response have not a clue. First of all The Bahre family has given so much back to so many people as well as communities! They go out of there way to work at the track and always greet everyone with a smile that says alot! So why does'nt everone stop being jelouse and appriecate all they do year round I mind you! They will always do right by people they have worked hard and honest for the finer things and they deserve it! And its not Mr Bahre, Its Bob he really is just a everyday great guy!

Mr Cookie:

Mr & Mrs Bahre have never given anything back to me so I guess I can write here and complain. Sure, maybe he gave out some brightly colored Nascar T-shirts to people entering his race track but what the heck, they just paid over $200 to watch cars go round in a circle. I had a race track in my house when I was 10 years old and I have to tell you, after watching those cars go round and round a couple of hundred times, I was extremely bored. Maybe its the people that don't get bored that turn into Nascar fans (they probably beleive in WWE wrestling too). Kind of like a brainnwashing toy
And I greet everyone here at work each day with a smile but that doesn't make me a great guy. (although I really am).

Sincerely
Mr GTO

[ApS]

As a "Word Person" I see a problem defending the "Earl of Plant" here:

"...so you might expect that [the Lee family] had some attachment to the land. Plant offered them a price, but they countered with a price of their own which Plant wouldn't initially meet - and thus the fray was joined. Eventually Plant had to concede to their price, in spite of the spite fence..."

With a willing buyer -- and a "willing" seller, how can this deal be truthfully struck in spite of the fence . It is more likely due because of the fence. If Plant built the fence on his property to block the Lee's view, there's nothing the Lees could have legally done.

Aw heck, let's just get it over with:

Change Alton Bay to "Bob Bahre Bay".

'Has a nice ring to it.

[Rolie]

"Maybe its the people that don't get bored that turn into Nascar fans (they probably beleive in WWE wrestling too). "

Mr GTO

I was wondering how many NASCAR events you have personally attended to develop that opinion?

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Rolie

"Maybe its the people that don't get bored that turn into Nascar fans (they probably beleive in WWE wrestling too). "

Mr GTO

I was wondering how many NASCAR events you have personally attended to develop that opinion?

Don't you have to be married to someone related to you and have less than 8 teeth in your mouth and wear bright colored t-shirts and hats and carry really cool scanners so you can hear what the driver is saying to the pit crew to get in?
So the answer to that question would be a definate no.
And Please, call me GTO.

[Mee-n-Mac]

mcdude,

Once again you've managed to amaze us with your ability to find interesting historical facts and pictures ! Well done.

[secondcurve]

McDude:

Let me be the first to nominate you as MVP (Most Valuable Poster) of the Winnipesaukee website. Does anyone second the nomination?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[KPW]

Towns have ordinances for a reason. We all think we are entitled to what we want. What we want and what is good for the lake, can be two different things. It all boils down to RUN OFF.

[Cookie]

It sure like your a very narrow minded person I'm displeased with myself by even responding to you. However things should be set straight people in Nascar give more then T-shirts! So if you could please take the time and ask? Have I ever had anyone in my life affected by Cancer,Birth defects,Lukemea or a child battling something without a cure? If you can say no well your so lucky. But if you said yes do me the favor and look into some of the huge donation some of these Nascar people have made very locally actually! For instance racing against cancer Brad Leighton/Foxwoods! And there is hope for you see I expect maybe you just can't afford a ticket so please take the time ask Bob @ NHIS I'll bet he will give you a ticket the you have a write after you have attended to voice your opinion! Until then enough already.It's a great family sport and I'm sure again it benifits you or someone you care about in some way!

[mcdude]

More on the Zoning Question......(follow link below for article for those of you who have subscribed)
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...-1/citizen0107

(PS - I've found that once you subscribe you never have to enter your name or passwork again...it happens automatically. For those concerned about your privacy....don't use your real name or address!!!)

DESCRIPTION of STRUCTURE
"ZBA Member Keith Chamberlain pointed out that the Bahre's current home, located on the same property, has a 16-car garage attached to it.

Explaining the dimensions of the floors, Tenn said the residential portion of the house is of greater use than the garage. The first two floors, she said, would be 19,329 square feet each, and the living quarters on the third floor would have a total of 11,811 square feet, for a combined space of 50,469 square feet.

Out of the total square footage, 17,208 would be used for display space, which she said is 44 percent of the entire dwelling unit. The remaining 66 percent would constitute the primary, residential use of the structure. In a typical home, she said, the percentage of garage space comes out higher than that for the residential use.

On the third floor of the structure, which is the space for the caretaker, the plans show there to be two kitchens, two bedrooms and two bathrooms at opposite ends of the floor, separated by a 5/8-inch sheet rock wall with a hallway close to 100 feet in length and open in the middle to provide a view of the antique cars below." From CITIZEN article

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by mcdude

I've found that once you subscribe you never have to enter your name or passwork again...it happens automatically. For those concerned about your privacy....don't use your real name or address

Don't forget http://www.bugmenot.com. Get a login there.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

I second the nomination!
Thanks McDude for providing the excellent information on the Earl of Ossipee.
For those who aren’t familiar with DCR, he is a frequent, knowledgeable visitor over on PhotoPost. He is a virtual wealth of information in regards to the local mountains and surrounding lakes.
For instance, check out what he relates about the carriage roads on the Lucknow Estate. http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...php?photo=8148
The local flora - http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...php?photo=6820
The local wildlife - http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...php?photo=6621
The local mountains - http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...php?photo=5898
I could go on and on... visit his well-done gallery, you won't be disappointed. - http://www.winnipesaukee.com/photopo...ry.php?cat=500

[Aquadeziac]

If these NASCAR drivers are such Gods why is it that they are too good to have a picture snapped with a fan for free? Should a father have to pay $20 to take a picture of his young son with the driver the boy idolizes? And don't tell me it doesn't happen, I saw it happen at the Laconia Airport after one of the Winston Races. I watched the dad fork over a 20 to one of Jeff Gordons flunkys so his son could get a picture with his hero. These are role models? Don't cry in your post about how much NASCAR gives, when one can turn around and see things like this. And don't fool yourself into believing this was just an isolated incident. NASCAR? Drivers? Bahre? They are all the same, they are not going to give you something for nothing in return.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

If these NASCAR drivers are such Gods why is it that they are too good to have a picture snapped with a fan for free?

Does it make sense that these drivers donate large amounts of money to cancer research and then race in the Winston Cup.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by mcdude

More on the Zoning Question......(follow link below for article for those of you who have subscribed)
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...-1/citizen0107

(PS - I've found that once you subscribe you never have to enter your name or passwork again...it happens automatically. For those concerned about your privacy....don't use your real name or address!!!)

OK,OK McDudue.I gave in.I'm signed now for the Citizen on-line.I did use a false name and address but my e-mail address has my real name in it and I'm pretty sure you need to give the proper url,right?

[mcdude]

SIKSUKR: I usually don't for something like this. Sometimes an error message will come back though if the zip code you use does not match the state you said you were from. I usually do something like...First Name? = mc ... Last Name? = dude mcdude@mcdudeland.net as long as it has the "@" and a "dot something" at the end. If it doesn't like what you entered it will tell you!

[Orion]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

McDude:

Let me be the first to nominate you as MVP (Most Valuable Poster) of the Winnipesaukee website. Does anyone second the nomination?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree and second Secondcurve's nomination. I can't imagine how long it would take to do the research we're blessed with from McDude.

But just a jab here, in fun .......

Originally Posted by mcdude

Out of the total square footage, 17,208 would be used for display space, which she said is 44 percent of the entire dwelling unit. The remaining 66 percent would constitute the primary, residential use of the structure. In a typical home, she said, the percentage of garage space comes out higher than that for the residential use.

.....would mean they're using 110% of the building. Who could complain about that efficiency!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

McDude:

Let me be the first to nominate you as MVP (Most Valuable Poster) of the Winnipesaukee website. Does anyone second the nomination?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

I'll third (is that a word ?) that nomination ! But I'm going to be sexist for a moment and request we split the category into male and female divisions. Then we can nominate RG for her historical research as well.

Then again I'm reminded that she did win that quilt of beauty so ... forget I even mentioned it. Bitter, me, bitter, naaah

[mcdude]

".....the position taken by Bahre's attorney, Mary Tenn. She claims that ........" ...Wonder if anyone on the ZBA picked up on that?

You are absolutely correct M-n-M...RG deserves a great deal of credit. The image of the spite fence posted above was actually something SHE posted on photopost....and notice that the narrative is by dcr. Most of these "projects" are a collaborative effort. What about that 'effort' last spring on ICE-OUT coordinated by IG but with many contributions by upthesaukee and DRH? (Got the most hits ever and almost crashed Don's servier!) The Winnipesaukee Fables of FLBoater? There's a lot of "credit" to be spread around! I like to think of it as a team effort.....so I nominate...EVERYBODY!

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by mcdude

You are absolutely correct M-n-M...RG deserves a great deal of credit. The image of the spite fence posted above was actually something SHE posted on photopost....and notice that the narrative is by dcr. Most of these "projects" are a collaborative effort. What about that 'effort' last spring on ICE-OUT coordinated by IG but with many contributions by upthesaukee and DRH? (Got the most hits ever and almost crashed Don's servier!) The Winnipesaukee Fables of FLBoater? There's a lot of "credit" to be spread around! I like to think of it as a team effort.....so I nominate...EVERYBODY!

Well Santa bought us a new digital SLR so I'm hoping to contribute some more to the photo section. The "bar" is set pretty high though ... Perhaps when spring comes I can get a shot of those fish on the new Alton perched beach Hmmm, note to self, get the big telephoto lens before the skinny dippin season starts.

BTW: I agree with dcr's narrative re: "in spite of" the spite fence. The Lee's were always willing to sell, it was the buyer (Earl of Ossipee) who wasn't willing, at first, to buy at the Lee's higher price. He built the spite fence but still the Lee's didn't capitulate. Rather it was Plant who later conceded and became "willing" to accept the counter offer. Despite ("in spite of") the construction of the spite fence, the Lee's got their desired price, the price they were willing to sell at on day 1.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

OK,OK McDudue.I gave in.I'm signed now for the Citizen on-line.I did use a false name and address but my e-mail address has my real name in it and I'm pretty sure you need to give the proper url,right?

Setup a "yahoo" account. That's what my Upthesaukee account is all about. Keeps the "garbage" out of my Metrocast account.

[SIKSUKR]

Thanks you guys.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Originally Posted by GTO

I had a race track in my house when I was 10 years old and I have to tell you, after watching those cars go round and round a couple of hundred times, I was extremely bored.

GTO, Pontiac’s GTO was a player in early NASCAR racing. Many of our beloved muscle cars had much success there as well. When there was a high correlation between race wins and car sales, the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" slogan was coined.

(I'm not trying to start anything with you, just yanking your chain. )

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

GTO, Pontiac’s GTO was a player in early NASCAR racing. Many of our beloved muscle cars had much success there as well. When there was a high correlation between race wins and car sales, the "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" slogan was coined.

(I'm not trying to start anything with you, just yanking your chain. )

Hi RG.

Do you think mr Bahre will Have a classic GTO stored in his new car museum that he wants to build? I think he should host next years Forumfest. Is he a forum member? Probably not, he's probably at the track singing his favorite John Lennon song, "I'm just sitting here watching the cars go round and round." Or could be sitting at home thinking of new things he can give to the community. We should just make a list and submit it to him.
And I never try to start anything with anybody I just yank the chains of a few willing participants. I actually enjoy your posts and posts of many others here. One day I will attend the Forumfest and we can all enjoy a good laugh. (I'll be the one with the bright orange Tide nascar shirt)

[Winnigirl]

Originally Posted by GTO

Does it make sense that these drivers donate large amounts of money to cancer research and then race in the Winston Cup.

The Winston Cup ceased to exist over 2 seasons ago. It is actually the NASCAR Nextel Cup now.

[trfour]

Originally Posted by Winnigirl

The Winston Cup ceased to exist over 2 seasons ago. It is actually the NASCAR Nextel Cup now.

Sooo right, Winnigirl!!

And lets give a hand to Rusty! He won the first race at NHIS, Won a Nascar Championship in a GTO.... Dale and Rusty are still best of friends, Rusty ended up in a Dodge, and is moving on to bigger and better things!!!!
My hat's off to MR. Bahre....
Nascar will always be a part of us here!......LOUDON, NH.
Love,
T.

[Skip]

This morning's Union Leader has a followup article on the latest events surrounding Bob Bahre's zoninbg dispute with the Town selectmen.

It can be read at: http://www.theunionleader.com/articl...3-0c8d42b587fe

Merry Christmas,

Skip

[BroadHopper]

12,000 sq ft caretaker's apartment!!!!!

Where is the job posted???

Sounds like a great retirement opportunity.

[mcdude]

By MELANIE NELSON
Staff Writer
mnelson@citizen.com (Thanks for the heads up RLW!)

(Photo Caption)
"BOB BAHRE AND HIS SON, Gary, were once again before the Alton Zoning Board of Adjustment Monday night asking for special permission for a building to store the Bahre's numerous cars on their waterfront compound in Alton."

"ALTON — After a long and often complicated rehearing, the Alton Zoning Board of Adjustment voted, 3-2, on Monday to allow New Hampshire International Speedway owner Bob Bahre to build a 50,469-square-foot structure on his lakefront property which includes two levels of residential space and one floor to house his 70 antique cars and other collections."

If you are registered with the "Citizen" you may read the complete article below;
http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...082/-1/CITIZEN

Follow the link below for the Concord Monitor Article
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/p...79/1001/NEWS01

The mansion already has a 16 car garage!

Photo by Lakegirl's Dad (2004)

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by mcdude

The mansion already has a 16 car garage!

What's your point?

[gtxrider]

It seems that they got approval since the building is a single family residence. What single family residence is 240X80 Ft. 19,200 Sq ft. and that is only one floor. Oh well them that has gets.

[upthesaukee]

When you read the article on the vote, the approving opinion really came down to one very important point: The proposed property simply meets the definition of a single family residence. The town's building ordinances do not define a single family residence by size (ie, square footage) nor do they define it by the number of attached garage spaces, be it below or attached to the side. Bottom line, three of the members felt that the Bahre's had met their burden of proof, and were granted the approval.

Note that the town has thirty days in which to appeal, or their lawsuit goes by the boards (which I hope is what happens).

Nice to know that you can build in Alton and add that 16 bay snowmobile shed to the side of the house, and still be a single family dwelling.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

When you read the article on the vote, the approving opinion really came down to one very important point: The proposed property simply meets the definition of a single family residence. The town's building ordinances do not define a single family residence by size (ie, square footage) nor do they define it by the number of attached garage spaces, be it below or attached to the side. Bottom line, three of the members felt that the Bahre's had met their burden of proof, and were granted the approval.

You have hit upon one of the nagging problems really hurting many communities from the Lakes region up through the North country, namely poorly written zoning regulations with little or no short or long range growth planning.

The old "live free or die" and "leave me alone to do whatever" is great for the individual, but easy to take advantage of when large monied interests with unfettered legal access move into town. People can't have it both ways, complete freedom to do what they wish with their property while complaining when others take the same attitude to heart.

Many smaller communities are now playing catch-up but are well behind the curve when it comes to controlling these situations. I don't need to emphasize any of this to you long term Lake residents, I'm just preaching to the choir here.

It will be intertesting to see how this plays out, but I think someone has found a hole in the regulations big enough to drive a sixteen car garage through! Simply put, if he is following the rules, then so be it. But if the community wants to sacrifice some personal property freedoms for the town as a whole they better act fast, because the ability to manage growth in a responsible manner is quickly passing by.....

Merry Christmas,

Skip

[ApS]

Originally Posted by gtxrider

It seems that they got approval since the building is a single family residence. What single family residence is 240X80 Ft. 19,200 Sq ft. and that is only one floor. Oh well them that has gets.

Yes, and news accounts always have the words "long and complicated" discussions. Of course, they weren't particularly "complicated" until the lawyers stepped in.

Bahre's property doesn't fit the term "McMansion" -- not anymore!

I've always heard that spot zoning was a bad thing. First you grant it to one party, then another says "He got to do it!" Would these exemptions be considered "spot zoning"?

[mcdude]

Originally Posted by Skip

You have hit upon one of the nagging problems really hurting many communities from the Lakes region up through the North country, namely poorly written zoning regulations with little or no short or long range growth planning.

Skip

Alton is working on updating its' master plan. (See Citizen Article if registered.. http://archive.citizen.com/2005/marc...%5F033005a.asp)
Back in April a survey was conducted to solicit views on how growth should be managed in the town. A step in the right direction.
I suppose several "boat museums" placed inconspicuously around the lake would be better than an industrial park in West Alton as far as the tax base is concerned. Someone has to pay for the new Prospect Mt. High School!http://www.pmhschool.com/
So what do you think of that, GWC?

[Woodsy]

I really don't understand the hostility towards the Bahres? I don't know them, nor do I live in Alton, so I really have no vested interest. But why so hostile?

So what he has money?? Lots of people have more than he does!

Here is the real sticker... He bought a camp that nobody else wanted to buy... even when offered at a discount! Alton didn't want to spend the $$$, neither did any of the conservation groups! It is his property to do with what he wants, as long as he abides by the laws in place. If the ZBA is correct in that there is no restrictions against building Buckingham Palace, why is it anyone elses concern? If you are an Alton resident and you don't like it, start a petition to change the zoning laws!

To me, it really seems like sour grapes between the haves and the have nots! Who knows, 100 years from now people might be taking tours of the property, just like Castle in the Clouds and Kimball Castle.

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Skip

You have hit upon one of the nagging problems really hurting many communities from the Lakes region up through the North country, namely poorly written zoning regulations with little or no short or long range growth planning.

I read in the news not too long ago that the communities surrounding Moosehead Lake are learning a lot by looking at the problems communities are having around Lake Winnipesaukee in regards to controlling growth. For other communtities to use Winnipesaukeee as a 'Lesson Learned' is really scary!

[Boater]

When Bob Bahre built a massive home along Lake Winnipesaukee, some folks winced. Now the king of New Hampshire International Speedway wants to add a garage that's nearly twice the size of the house. Bring in the lawyers.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...atants_dig_in/

[John A. Birdsall]

While I appreciate the Alton landscape in yesteryears, I think Bahre has done a nice job, expensive, but nice. Would I want it in my back yard, no, so I can understand some grumbling but that is when it was started not now that it is near completion. Alton will do nothing but reap from the benefits (taxes) that this 70+ resident has done. and he has done a lot in my opinion for Alton. He wants to build another structure on his property< its not a noisy one, let him be. Collect his taxes and smile. You want a bldg to house your cars, if you got the room build it.

[mcdude]

This morning NECN is showing footage of the Bahre Estate and Alton in general.
I can't seem to capture the link to the video. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page to the very last article.

http://www.boston.com/news/necn/


NASCAR king's plans nettle some in NH
(1/2/06 10:38 p.m.) A NASCAR king's plans for his lakefront home in New Hampshire is nettling some in the small community of Alton. NECN reporter Greg Navarro has more.

[superduty]

Love it or hate it, I have not decided yet. So many good and bad points have been brought up it the past posts. I saw the piece on NECN Tuesday night. It was quite a lengthy piece for news coverage. They showed Alton Bay, the new bank, the gas station, the swimming platform by the boat ramp, even a row of homes along the water. All of this stuff is no were near the Bahre Estate so what point were they trying to make? I lived in Alton Bay for 25 years and watched some radical changes to the lake. I love a calm day on the water as much as the next person, but have come to grips with realilty that the masses will come and those with money will leave their mark, both good and bad. Looking foward to spring!

[GWC...]

"The town of Alton is taking the town of Alton to court..."

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll...048/-1/CITIZEN

[ncee]

By the way "Aquadeziac" - the quote goes something like this:

"He who dies with the most toys… is still dead"

or is it;

"He who dies with the most toys… dies with the most toys"

I can't remember for the LIFE of me

Skip

Bahreville… kind of has a scary feel to it?

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by ncee

By the way "Aquadeziac" - the quote goes something like this:

"He who dies with the most toys… is still dead"

or is it;

"He who dies with the most toys… dies with the most toys"

I can't remember for the LIFE of me

True, but then again, he who has the toys has a full life and he who doesn't, well........., lives an empty life full of envy.

Gee, wonder what kind of life you are having?

[ghfromaltonbay]

Originally Posted by GWC...

True, but then again, he who has the toys has a full life and he who doesn't, well........., lives an empty life full of envy.

Gee, wonder what kind of life you are having?

If someone has a lot of toys and no friends, that to me is an empty life. Material possessions are not something I envy, it's friends and family that count. Unfortunately I've seen people with lots of toys and supposed friends who disappear if the one with all the toys falls on hard times.

[GWC...]

Originally Posted by ghfromaltonbay

If someone has a lot of toys and no friends, that to me is an empty life. Material possessions are not something I envy, it's friends and family that count. Unfortunately I've seen people with lots of toys and supposed friends who disappear if the one with all the toys falls on hard times.

True, but the real winners in life have learned how to have both by being selective of their friends and toys to provide a full and happy life.

[BroadHopper]

If you don't have any toys, you have nothing to lose in hard times.

[mcdude]

see CITIZEN ARTICLE

[fatlazyless]

Barndoor Island resident led charge against Bahre's plans for huge building

Bettencourt happy proposal has been shelved but not pleased about the timimg

THE LACONIA DAILY SUN, Saturday May 20,2006

By Ray Carbone


ALTON- For more than 30 of his neighbors, it was good news last week when Bob Bahre, the owner of the New Hampshire International Speedway (NHIS), announced he dropped his plans to build a 52,000-square-foot automobile museum/entertainment center next to his waterfront Lake Winnipesaukee mansion.
Bahre's proposal became the center of a Town Hall squabble that led to the Board of Selectmen suing the Zoning board of Adjustment(ZBA) and Bahre. Last month some residents of Barndoor Island, which lies across fom Bahre's Clay Point estate, and Lakeside, a nearby residential developement, filed a petition with the Belknap County Superior Court asking to be heard at the Superior Court hearing where the Selectboard would ask a justice to overturn the ZBA's decision to grant Bahre a building permit for the controversial structure. But just before things got to a courtroom, Bahre said, "Why fight with them all?", and abandoned his building permit request, efffectively killing all legal proceedings.
Ron Bettencourt, the 30-year-Barndoor Island resident who led the neighbors charge against Bahre, said most of the people in the neighborhood felt the new structure simply would not fit in the area's zoning. "Our major complaint is that this is a single family residential zone. To put in such a monstrosity as that building and to call it a single family residence, it was a joke."
But calling it a single family residence was exactly what Bahre's lawyer did, and the ZBA bought the idea. Bahre's original building proposal was rejected by Code Enforcement Officer Brian Boyers who felt it was inappropriate for the shorefront residential district. Last year the ZBA overruled Boyer's decision, saying the 20,000-square foot caretaker's apartment on the top floor was enough to qualify the structure as a residence. That's when the Board of Selectmen got involved, backing Boyer's viewpoint.
Bettencourt, who was one of the few neighborhood residents to appear at the ZBA's hearings, is not an attorney, but a blacksmith. He said he got involved because he was one of the few people living in the 40-plus homes on the island who were aware of the situation. "They didn't notify us because we aren't abutters,"he said, referring to the town's planning department. "Nobody was notified. But nobody is here during the wintertime. These are mostly seasonal homeowners and everybody had gone home."
After Bettencort heard about the situation, he called Town Hall to get the details. Then he decided to make use of his e-mail and phone number lists to inform people in the area about Bahre's building proposal.
"I got it going because no one else did," he said. "I did all the legwork. We didn't have any lawyers so it didn't cost us anything except time... I typed up the motion on my computer and sent it around to everybody and everybody signed it," Bettencourt said. Nine families in the Lakeside development and seven on Barndoor Island responded quickly enough to get their names on the appeal, he added.
At one of the first ZBA hearings, Bettencourt referred to Bahre's lakeside estate as an "attractive nuisance." He said that since Bahre started building his 29,000-square-feet home and the slighly smaller adjacent home of his son Gary - his neighbors endured five years of construction, boat and helicopter noise.
Ken Reader of Windham, who has lived on the island for about 30 years, says the question of the noise and the size of Bahre's buildings were immediate concerns for him. "The house took five years to build. You're only a quarter-mile away but you'd hear them on Sundays, the Fourth of July, every weekend - I don't know how he got those guys to work... And it (the proposed building) was 50,000-square-feet! The house itself isn't small, it's 29,000-square-feet. It's the biggest house on the lake and it's built well."
Now the estate attracts boaters from all over, said Becky Berk of Hooksett. "Part of the reason we bought this property was it was on one of the quietest parts of the lake," said Berk, who has owned a home on the island for 13 years. "When they built those properties, people started coming just to gawk. Essentially it's become a tourist destination. They pass right in front of our house. And they just sit and gawk."
"Now it attracts every single boat in this lake." Bettencourt agreed. "They come down here in those cigarette boats and they sit off-shore out there and they'll just idle their boats for a half-hour. And if you know those engines, you know how loud they are...Then they just take off."
"We knew that if they put that museum up on the point, put it up where everybody on the lake from Meredith could see it, it would be even more," he added.
Berk said she's always been disappointed about Bahre's treatment of the area. "I just felt that he wasn't very respectfull of the norms of the general area, and he was not particularly sensitive to the natural environment. My personal reason (for opposing the proposed building) was just feeling uncomfortable with such an open display of extravagance. Frankly, that was my primary reason... But before the property was purchased (by Bahre), it was a boy's camp, it was all wooded. I was upset that he basically clear-cut that entire lot. You lose all that habitat, the woods.... Now you put fertilizer down and that goes into the water."
Reider laughed when he heard that Bahre said he had decided against building his museum several months ago, but didn't tell officials until recently because he thought the town bodies were having "too much fun" in the legal dispute. "When you have big, big money and small town politics, they don't go together too well," he said.
But Bettencourt was dismayed. "I don't know if what we did had anything to do with his decision. But if he'd already decided months ago, that makes me really upset. We went through a lot of headaches. I would have thought he'd have had the decency to let us know when he decided. It would have saved us a lot of time."
In addition, the town would have saved money on legal fees, Bettencourt said. "It was a lousy way to do things as far as he was concerned."
Reader does not believe the building issue is completely dead. "My guess is he'll come back with a smaller proposall and hope it gets by. If he scales it back, it will probably please everybody."
Bahre's priceless collection of classic cars is now housed in Oxford, Maine. At this time, he has no plans to move it.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

This may be a silly question, but how does Bob Bahre pronounce his name? We heard Imus at NHIS talking about his visit with Bob and he was pronouncing it bar, as in a place to get an alcoholic drink. Several people we know pronounce his last name bear or bare, as in the animal or bare-naked or b+air.

Thanks for your help with my Cilly question.

Thank you to Bob and his wife for making a private donation to the Imus Ranch of $100,000! That ranch is a fantastic operation!

PS: Sorry if I’ve missed this information in this or another thread.

[Dave R]

People amaze me. They file motions and start legal proceeedings against a neighbor (surely not a "neighborly" move) and then get mad when that neighbor they've filed suit against does not keep them fully informed of his thoughts and decisions, until he feels like it. I can't blame Mr. Bahre at all, I think I would have been far less agreeable if I were attacked that way.

Perhaps a simple letter asking him not to build the place and explaining why would have been better received... This is small town NH, after all.

[Aquadeziac]

Heard through some connections at the track that Bahre is putting NHIS up for sale. Also heard that if it is sold, it would mean the loss of one of the Nextel races (Sept?). Stands to reason, the only reason NHIS got the second race is because Bahre owns part or whole intrest in a track in Nevada? Well citizens of Loudon, looks like ONE weekend of traffic woes may be taken care of. Anyone able to track this story further?

[tis]

R Gal. Imus was wrong. It is bear or bare, as you wrote.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Heard through some connections at the track that Bahre is putting NHIS up for sale. Also heard that if it is sold, it would mean the loss of one of the Nextel races (Sept?). Stands to reason, the only reason NHIS got the second race is because Bahre owns part or whole intrest in a track in Nevada? Well citizens of Loudon, looks like ONE weekend of traffic woes may be taken care of. Anyone able to track this story further?

Had a couple of minutes and did some looking around and found nothing concrete. Only some references back to comments made in July where Bahre said he had no plans to sell. But who knows alot can change over a few months.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Bahre owns part or whole intrest in a track in Nevada?

That would be the old NASCAR track in North Wilkesboro N.C.

[secondcurve]

Dave:

Somehow I think if someone built a similar structure in your neighborhood, you'd be a little upset. I know I would. Should he be able to build anything he wants?

[Weirs guy]

Originally Posted by tis

R Gal. Imus was wrong. It is bear or bare, as you wrote.

I was listening to Imus's broadcast thinking I had been wrong all these years with the way I pronounced it. I'd have gotten his name right for $100,000.

[Rattlesnake Gal]

Thanks for the confirmation on the pronunciation of Bahre. Another friend who listened to the subsequent show heard Imus being corrected. Of course Imus thinks that Bob should fix his name!

[Aquadeziac]

In trying to research this more I found that the only media references were about his other track (yes N.C. not Nevada) in this article http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?p=232013 . There was also a reference in this article http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsr...e/15047233.htm that in the event of his death, son Gary has no interest in running the track without his father. Speculation being that his partner in the N.C. track, Bruton Smith, would possibly purchase the track.

[redc5]

Originally Posted by secondcurve

Dave:

Somehow I think if someone built a similar structure in your neighborhood, you'd be a little upset. I know I would. Should he be able to build anything he wants?

Yes he should be able to build what he wants on his land. I certainly dont want some busy-body telling me what to do with my property....do you?

[MJM]

Not a "busy-body", but some sort of general guidelines/governance is in the best interest of all. If he wants to build something on his land that has NO impact on ANYONE else, then of course....go for it. But there has to be rules to protect ALL people's rights.

If my next-door neighbor wanted to build a manure processing plant, I'd sure as heck want that prevented.

[redc5]

nobody is talking about a manure processing plant. Whatever this guy builds is of top quality and doesn't appear to be not obtrusive to his neighbors.

[Gavia immer]

Originally Posted by Rattlesnake Gal

This may be a silly question, but how does Bob Bahre pronounce his name? Several people we know pronounce his last name bear or bare, as in the animal or bare-naked or b+air.

Words and names pronounced "b+air":

Bahre (McMansion)
Bare (naked)
Bayer (Aspirin)
Bear (critter)
Behre (Paint)
Bexar (County in Texas)

[Waterbaby]

Originally Posted by Yankee

That would be the old NASCAR track in North Wilkesboro N.C.

Actually, Bahre was part owner of Las Vegas Motor Speedway back when LVMS got it's first Cup race (around 1997 timeframe). After two or three years he sold his share.

[Kevin C]

I'd love to have Bob build a similar structure in my neighborhood. Man, what it would do to my property value!! Can you say Ka...ching?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Gavia immer

Words and names pronounced "b+air":

Bahre (McMansion)

If you think that's a McMansion, what sorta place do you call a mansion?

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

In trying to research this more I found that the only media references were about his other track (yes N.C. not Nevada) in this article http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?p=232013 . There was also a reference in this article http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsr...e/15047233.htm that in the event of his death, son Gary has no interest in running the track without his father. Speculation being that his partner in the N.C. track, Bruton Smith, would possibly purchase the track.

Mr. Bahre also owned the Oxford Plains Speedway in Maine prior to redoing the old Bryar Park race track in Loudon.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Kevin C

I'd love to have Bob build a similar structure in my neighborhood. Man, what it would do to my property value!! Can you say Ka...ching?

Tell you what, if Bob wants to build a racetrack on our property in Alton then I'd be willing to talk to the man. Mind you I doubt if there's any profit in the HO scale track that would fit on the property but ...

[ossipeeboater]

Originally Posted by Aquadeziac

Heard through some connections at the track that Bahre is putting NHIS up for sale. Also heard that if it is sold, it would mean the loss of one of the Nextel races (Sept?). Stands to reason, the only reason NHIS got the second race is because Bahre owns part or whole intrest in a track in Nevada? Well citizens of Loudon, looks like ONE weekend of traffic woes may be taken care of. Anyone able to track this story further?

Bahre owned North Wilkesboro with Bruton Smith, he took one date to NH Bruton took his to open Texas. I doubt NH will be sold until the track in NY get approved since it's the only NE track right now north of Dover so it draws NY up to Canada and they don't want to lose those fans. It is one just a few tracks not owned by NASCAR (ISC) or SMI(Bruton Smith) so NHIS along with Pocono and Dover will last just as long as NASCAR wants it to. Won't feel bad for Bob if that happens SMI paid $100 million for Rockingham when they bought that for it's dates.

[gtxrider]

Originally Posted by Mee-n-Mac

Tell you what, if Bob wants to build a racetrack on our property in Alton then I'd be willing to talk to the man. Mind you I doubt if there's any profit in the HO scale track that would fit on the property but ...

If you want to put a slot car track in I will be there. Low noise and no exhaust fumes.

They still own the track in S.C. but it is not used for racing all they wanted was there 2 date on the schedule.