Electric boats

camp guy · 11-11-2022, 03:32 PM

Sooooooooooooooooo, our President has given the State of Washington an electric tugboat for 50 big big ones, what's next, the M/V Mount Washington, with a mid-route charging station on Parker Island?

whalebackpoint'r · 11-11-2022, 03:51 PM

Interesting concept.

https://waterbornemag.com/electric-boat-motors/

tis · 11-11-2022, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy

Sooooooooooooooooo, our President has given the State of Washington an electric tugboat for 50 big big ones, what's next, the M/V Mount Washington, with a mid-route charging station on Parker Island?

Did you see the people on the island when asked what they thought about it?

winniwannabe · 11-11-2022, 04:41 PM

Why sputter and bash it? Maybe it will be welcomed in the state of Washington. I'm guessing that they weren't caught off guard, and actually ok'd it. Winnipesaukee has alot of types of watercraft. Were they always pooh-poohed? Jet skis were the bane of the Lake until improvements were made. Let's see how it goes before condemning a new concept.

Thanks to all who have served.

FlyingScot · 11-11-2022, 04:46 PM

At that price it's really an R&D project designed to push forward the technology, one of thousands of R&D programs the government funds, so I think it's a good idea. For those who do not like government funding R&D projects, one great way to object would be to boycott products that have benefited from these programs. Medicine, the internet, natural gas, etc.

I'll be in line for an electric boat when they drop below 6 figures with decent range. Five or ten years? Silent, instant torque and the ability to fuel up at home will be awesome.

John Mercier · 11-11-2022, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camp guy

Sooooooooooooooooo, our President has given the State of Washington an electric tugboat for 50 big big ones, what's next, the M/V Mount Washington, with a mid-route charging station on Parker Island?

That would be up to the owners of the Mount.
The diesel bill is going to hurt for quite a few years... so it may come to pass.

The great thing about losing the refining capacity, and the opening of sales of crude and LNG overseas that came about over just the last few years, is that it will keep costs high enough to push technology.

We could quickly see blue and green hydrogen become the fuel of choice... with a hybrid electric fuel cell connected to a high torque efficient electric motor.

The Mount is certainly large enough to handle the earliest versions of a package like that.

fatlazyless · 11-12-2022, 07:46 AM

In March 2010, when Joe Biden was the vice president, the Mount Washington was able to get a $700,000 federal grant through the "Cash for Clunker's" federal program to replace its old 1945 diesels with two new Caterpillar "green" fuel efficient diesels plus a new transmission as well.

In 2022 admission cost about $48/passenger for a 2.5-hour narrated day time cruise around Lake Winnipesaukee that included a $3.50 diesel fuel surcharge what with the price increase for diesel.

John Mercier · 11-12-2022, 09:20 AM

My point was that those diesel/gasoline prices will stay consistently high.

The last time they were at this level crude was close to $150.

Crude hasn't been that high, and the pinch seems to be in refining capacity, as we are shipping barrels offshore now and have been doing so for many months.

A fuel surcharge works well when we think the situation will be short term... but because it is long term. We should see ticket prices increase and rider demand decrease.

fatlazyless · 11-12-2022, 09:54 AM

How's about the Mount convert'n its two "green" Cat diesels from burning very expensive, low sulfur, clean diesel to ....... www.veggieoilconversions.com/conv/info/dodge.php ..... recycled, used cooking oil from local restaurants so's it smells like French fries cook'n as it cruises past on the big lake ..... just like an old Ram pickup truck with a Cummins diesel converted to cook'n oil.

Could be a good winter, off-season project! ....

John Mercier · 11-12-2022, 10:53 AM

I believe they could run the biodiesel in what they have for equipment. But I don't think there would be cost savings at the current prices... I could be wrong.

The diesel/electric option would mimic freight trains that need large amounts of torque to get moving.

DickR · 11-12-2022, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mercier

...
We could quickly see blue and green hydrogen become the fuel of choice... with a hybrid electric fuel cell connected to a high torque efficient electric motor.

The problem with use of hydrogen as a fuel for a fuel cell to generate electric power is much the same as using a battery as a power source (charging the battery). Virtually all of the hydrogen on the planet is tied up chemically in water or hydrocarbons. It takes energy to extract hydrogen from compounds, so we have the same problem as with EVs running off a battery - where does the "original" energy come from? Thus hydrogen may be thought of as a sort of battery, but without the associated costs of mining lithium or other elements used in the battery and ultimate disposal of the aged battery. In place of that, hydrogen has the problem of energy density for transport in a vehicle. It must be compressed substantially to shrink volume, and that takes energy also, although one can imagine recovering much of that energy by expanding high pressure hydrogen through a turbine before use of the discharged low pressure hydrogen in a fuel cell. One good thing about hydrogen as a fuel/battery is that it offers a different "battery" scheme that does not involve mining and extracting things like lithium.

John Mercier · 11-13-2022, 01:15 AM

That is why they are developing an ammonia option for liquid transport and density.

At one time, our area ran off from coal. We didn't run out of coal, it just became a more costly option than others.

We can build a nuclear power plant to run an aircraft carrier or submarine, but I don't think that from a practical or financial standpoint we are going to see the Mount develop that option - at least not in the near future.

Its more likely outcome is that instead of being powered by a hydrocarbon, it will simply forgo the carbon. The diesel, may become diesel/electric before that happens - as it did in locomotives - but the longer term outlook will be hydrogen.

chasedawg · 11-23-2022, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whalebackpoint'r

Interesting concept.

https://waterbornemag.com/electric-boat-motors/

Great article Whaleback. This past summer I decided to go electric and replace my 6HP Mercury engine that was only five years old. I got tired of trying to start it manually with a repaired rotator cuff shoulder. After comparing several brands I purchased the ePropulsion Spirit Plus. What a huge improvement over the gas engine. It is great technology.
I have the ePropulsion on my 19' Cape Dory Typhoon with a full lead keel. At full power it moves the 2500Lb Dory at the same speed as the 5HP. In fact, at the lowest speed setting the Dory moves really well. It is totally silent. all you can hear is the water from the wake. It has a display on it as far as the throttle setting and the number of hours it has before needing a recharge. At the lowest throttle setting it will run for 10 hours. At full throttle the run time is 3 hours. Not bad at all. It also has regeneration charging. As the boat moves through the water it charges itself. I will also be adding a 180 watt solar panel this coming summer. I am totally sold on this motor. No handling gas... no oil changing. And the total weigh is much lighter. The battery is built in to the frame of the motor. With a flip of a lever the battery pops out. Very easy to take ashore to charge the battery. Right now the sailboat is stored in my garage with the motor still on the motor bracket and I have the charger plugged into the battery with the battery still on the motor frame.

FlyingScot · 11-23-2022, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chasedawg

Great article Whaleback. This past summer I decided to go electric and replace my 6HP Mercury engine that was only five years old. I got tired of trying to start it manually with a repaired rotator cuff shoulder. After comparing several brands I purchased the ePropulsion Spirit Plus. What a huge improvement over the gas engine. It is great technology.
I have the ePropulsion on my 19' Cape Dory Typhoon with a full lead keel. At full power it moves the 2500Lb Dory at the same speed as the 5HP. In fact, at the lowest speed setting the Dory moves really well. It is totally silent. all you can hear is the water from the wake. It has a display on it as far as the throttle setting and the number of hours it has before needing a recharge. At the lowest throttle setting it will run for 10 hours. At full throttle the run time is 3 hours. Not bad at all. It also has regeneration charging. As the boat moves through the water it charges itself. I will also be adding a 180 watt solar panel this coming summer. I am totally sold on this motor. No handling gas... no oil changing. And the total weigh is much lighter. The battery is built in to the frame of the motor. With a flip of a lever the battery pops out. Very easy to take ashore to charge the battery. Right now the sailboat is stored in my garage with the motor still on the motor bracket and I have the charger plugged into the battery with the battery still on the motor frame.

Nice! I have a more modest Torqueedo electric on my smaller sailboat. I was really surprised at how much I appreciated getting rid of the whole fueling issue and just plugging in every couple of months

whalebackpoint'r · 11-23-2022, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Nice! I have a more modest Torqueedo electric on my smaller sailboat. I was really surprised at how much I appreciated getting rid of the whole fueling issue and just plugging in every couple of months

And no scum added to the surface of the water body!

11-11-2022, 03:32 PM	#1
camp guy Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: formerly Winter Harbor, still Wolfeboro Posts: 1,181 Thanks: 299 Thanked 525 Times in 293 Posts	Electric boats Sooooooooooooooooo, our President has given the State of Washington an electric tugboat for 50 big big ones, what's next, the M/V Mount Washington, with a mid-route charging station on Parker Island?

11-11-2022, 03:51 PM	#2
whalebackpoint'r Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 126 Thanks: 30 Thanked 49 Times in 24 Posts	Interesting concept. https://waterbornemag.com/electric-boat-motors/

11-11-2022, 04:41 PM	#4
winniwannabe Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: MA Posts: 139 Thanks: 113 Thanked 45 Times in 31 Posts	Why sputter and bash it? Maybe it will be welcomed in the state of Washington. I'm guessing that they weren't caught off guard, and actually ok'd it. Winnipesaukee has alot of types of watercraft. Were they always pooh-poohed? Jet skis were the bane of the Lake until improvements were made. Let's see how it goes before condemning a new concept. Thanks to all who have served.

11-11-2022, 04:46 PM	#5
FlyingScot Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Tuftonboro and Sudbury, MA Posts: 2,369 Thanks: 1,271 Thanked 1,016 Times in 626 Posts	At that price it's really an R&D project designed to push forward the technology, one of thousands of R&D programs the government funds, so I think it's a good idea. For those who do not like government funding R&D projects, one great way to object would be to boycott products that have benefited from these programs. Medicine, the internet, natural gas, etc. I'll be in line for an electric boat when they drop below 6 figures with decent range. Five or ten years? Silent, instant torque and the ability to fuel up at home will be awesome.

11-12-2022, 07:46 AM	#7
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	In March 2010, when Joe Biden was the vice president, the Mount Washington was able to get a $700,000 federal grant through the "Cash for Clunker's" federal program to replace its old 1945 diesels with two new Caterpillar "green" fuel efficient diesels plus a new transmission as well. In 2022 admission cost about $48/passenger for a 2.5-hour narrated day time cruise around Lake Winnipesaukee that included a $3.50 diesel fuel surcharge what with the price increase for diesel.

11-12-2022, 09:20 AM	#8
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,355 Thanks: 3 Thanked 592 Times in 488 Posts	My point was that those diesel/gasoline prices will stay consistently high. The last time they were at this level crude was close to $150. Crude hasn't been that high, and the pinch seems to be in refining capacity, as we are shipping barrels offshore now and have been doing so for many months. A fuel surcharge works well when we think the situation will be short term... but because it is long term. We should see ticket prices increase and rider demand decrease.

11-12-2022, 09:54 AM	#9
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,738 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,007 Times in 735 Posts	How's about the Mount convert'n its two "green" Cat diesels from burning very expensive, low sulfur, clean diesel to ....... www.veggieoilconversions.com/conv/info/dodge.php ..... recycled, used cooking oil from local restaurants so's it smells like French fries cook'n as it cruises past on the big lake ..... just like an old Ram pickup truck with a Cummins diesel converted to cook'n oil. Could be a good winter, off-season project! ....

11-12-2022, 10:53 AM	#10
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,355 Thanks: 3 Thanked 592 Times in 488 Posts	I believe they could run the biodiesel in what they have for equipment. But I don't think there would be cost savings at the current prices... I could be wrong. The diesel/electric option would mimic freight trains that need large amounts of torque to get moving.

11-13-2022, 01:15 AM	#12
John Mercier Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Posts: 3,355 Thanks: 3 Thanked 592 Times in 488 Posts	That is why they are developing an ammonia option for liquid transport and density. At one time, our area ran off from coal. We didn't run out of coal, it just became a more costly option than others. We can build a nuclear power plant to run an aircraft carrier or submarine, but I don't think that from a practical or financial standpoint we are going to see the Mount develop that option - at least not in the near future. Its more likely outcome is that instead of being powered by a hydrocarbon, it will simply forgo the carbon. The diesel, may become diesel/electric before that happens - as it did in locomotives - but the longer term outlook will be hydrogen.