Mt Washington Hiker

[fatlazyless]

Monday morning, 5:25-am, November 21, 2022: Mt Washington summit weather reported to be -9.4 degrees with wind at 69.1 mph, making it both the coldest and windiest place in the United States, at this time according to the weather page on this website.

Supposedly from WMUR news, there's a missing hiker, a 20-year old woman, somewhere on the Mt Lafayette, Franconia Ridge area with rescue teams out there, trying to locate her?

[pondguy]

May she be found safe.

[FlyingScot]

Yes, let's hope the hiker is found safe.

Two interesting topics here, but these are very separate issues. The weather atop Mt Washington is dramatically different than her route. This may be the biggest reason people die on Washington--they dress for Lafayette

[thinkxingu]

I believe she will/would turn 20 until Wednesday.

It's not looking great—the only thing I've seen in relation to her preparedness is that she was wearing a "brown coat and exercise pants."

I just dissected this with my students using Ty Gagne's "The Last Traverse" and "Where You'll Find Me" books and that the route she is on has much potential for missed turns. If she missed the Flume Slide cutoff (if she even reached there) and kept on Osseo, the extra mileage and remoteness would make the rescue that much more difficult.

At least read, a Blackhawk is scheduled to head up, but I'm not sure if the winds will cooperate.

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[fatlazyless]

Hey there, here's a 8:26 video ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPQ4v9Q97YY ..... made by 'Taylor the Nahamsha Hiker' hiking the Glen Boulder Trail to Mt Isolation, which is a NH-4000'er that's south of Mt Washington. This video was posted today, Tuesday on November 22, 2022, and it is unclear on the actual day of this hike but it is my guess that it could have been on Monday, Nov 21, 2022 which would be the same day as the missing hiker from Massachusetts, age 19, started her hike up to the Franconia Ridge?

And Taylor, she called it off, turned around, and returned to the car partially due to the cold and wind which seems like a smart move especially when out there, hiking alone. Is better to wait for a more warm and less cold day for hiking the relatively isolated, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Isolation, Mt Isolation.

As the A.M.C. poster used to say: "Don't Die on the Mountain, Wait for a Better Day!" because the mountain will still be there, some other time ...... like today, Tuesday with a warm 40+ degrees and strong sunshine.

[Susie Cougar]

Am I the only one that thinks that something doesn’t seem right? I don’t understand a mother dropping off her daughter dressed the way she was to go on a three mountain hike in the bitter cold. It’s one thing for the daughter to have a lapse of judgment but the mother says she watched her walk away. It just makes no sense to me.

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Am I the only one that thinks that something doesn’t seem right? I don’t understand a mother dropping off her daughter dressed the way she was to go on a three mountain hike in the bitter cold. It’s one thing for the daughter to have a lapse of judgment but the mother says she watched her walk away. It just makes no sense to me.

You are not alone with your thoughts. Thinking she may have met up with someone and used the hiking as a excuse to be dropped off. Sneakers? Gym pants in November? Mommy didn’t question why she was dressed the way she was for the hike? But, have heard nothing on her cell phone or social media. We all hope she is found safe.


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[fatlazyless]

This is getting interesting especially if, instead of finding a frozen dead body of a 19-year old women somewhere up the mountains, she's actually been soak'n in a 104-degree hotel hot tub, somewhere, drinking a beer, and hanging with a boyfriend who did not sit well with her Mom, and all while the big helicopter search is happening ...... ?

https://www.facebook.com/pemisar ...... Pemigewasset Valley Search and Rescue Team

Seems like a possibility, and time will tell ...... Oh well, all things considered, is better to be guilty, face the music, pay the penalties ...... than to be dead ...... especially at age-19.

https://vanderbilthustler.com/2022/1...new-hampshire/ ..... Wednesday, Nov 23 ..... a sophomore at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee with a biochemistry and chemical biology major who turns twenty, today, on 11/23/22.

[Susie Cougar]

It seems like we have a real mystery on our hands.
It does not seem out of the realm of possibilities that she is hiding somewhere, or maybe I’ve just been watching too many LMN movies.😂

[WinnisquamZ]

A few things have been clarified. She wore thermal under the yoga pants. She did have on hiking shoes. She planned out her hikes for the week with her mother. Each stated on 9 news


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[thinkxingu]

A not unexpected outcome, but terribly sad nonetheless. The chopper with her body is landing in Concord as I type this.

https://twitter.com/WMUR9/status/159...Xg3jNeM1ZVJadw

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[thinkxingu]

More details. Guys, this is so depressing because it looks like she was hurting early—where they started finding her stuff is not far into the hike. What a horrible tragedy.

* Update to the update: it appears the mom may have had the route wrong and that Emily was going up Falling Waters across to Old Bridle Path. If that's the case, she may have been close to finishing, which is perhaps even sadder. The discarded possessions, by the way, maybe a sign of hypothermia.

Missing Massachusetts Hiker Located Deceased, Mt. Lafayette
Franconia, NH: Just after 11:00 AM searchers located the body of Emily Sotelo on the northwest side of Mount Lafayette, in Franconia. Emily had departed on a solo hike of Franconia Ridge on the morning of November 19th. When Emily had not returned at the planned time a family member notified NH Fish and Game. Due to the harsh weather conditions a search commenced Sunday evening and thru the night. Searchers were hampered by high winds, cold temperatures and blowing snow. Searchers spent the next two days looking for Emily and Tuesday afternoon tracks and items belonging to Emily were located at the headwaters of Lafayette Brook. A plan was made to concentrate the search effort in this area on Wednesday when ground searchers located her body at 11:15 AM. A NH Army National Guard helicopter was able to help with the extrication of Emily to the Cannon Mountain Ski Area.
Many groups and agencies assisted NH Fish and Game Conservation Officers during the search to include: Pemigewasset Valley Search and Rescue Team, Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue Team, Mountain Rescue Service, Lakes Region Search and Rescue, Upper Valley Wilderness Response Team, New England K-9, NH Army National Guard, Civil Air Patrol, and the White Mountain National Forest. NH Fish and Game would also like to thank AT&T First Net and NH Homeland Security & Emergency Management for their support.

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[MeredithMan]

...This is so sad and I don't understand this at all. I am trying to comprehend how this girl and/or her family could be either so irresponsible or so naive to tempt fate and go out on this trek alone. A guy I used to work with died in the White Mts in March of 2021, and he was an accomplished mountain climber for many years; having climbed Kilamanjaro, Denali, and other major mountains around the globe. He was extremely experienced, had the proper gear, and he tempted fate by going out alone and he did not come back. And he knew what he was doing.

So tragic and sad...

[Susie Cougar]

I was hoping for FLL‘s outcome, sitting in a spa in 104° water. It doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. It should not have happened.

It’s bad enough that the mother let her go off totally unprepared, but she had her daughter’s route wrong. This certainly lowered her chances of being found, I would think.

[pondguy]

Such a sad loss of a young life may she rest in peace.

[fatlazyless]

More info ........ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-tribute.html ....... Thurs, Nov 24, 2022

[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by Susie Cougar

Am I the only one that thinks that something doesn’t seem right? I don’t understand a mother dropping off her daughter dressed the way she was to go on a three mountain hike in the bitter cold. It’s one thing for the daughter to have a lapse of judgment but the mother says she watched her walk away. It just makes no sense to me.

This was my first thought as well. Her mother described her as an experienced hiker but said she didn't have much winter hiking experience. I believe that an experienced hiker intending to do 3 mountains in November would be fully equipped for the possibility of spending a severe winter night in the White Mountains in November. If she had been equipped with a tent and sleeping bag she could have just stayed put until morning.

So I too wondered why her mother didn't make sure she had the right clothing and gear or check the forecast. Perhaps her mother didn't understand the gravity of what her daughter was doing, and perhaps Emily didn't convey that to her. An experienced backpacker at the View from the Top forum commented, "If she, the hiker, wasn't knowledgeable enough to know she was ill prepared for that hike on that day, her parents most likely would not have known either."

While many people do this same hike solo, this young woman did not have that capability.

Without knowing all the facts, my impression is that this incident was caused by the young woman's psychological pressure to climb all 48 4,000 footers by her 20th birthday, which was coming up in a couple of days. This emotional pressure to reach the summit is the cause of many fatal mountaineering incidents. At VFTT there seemed to be some agreement that she took a wrong turn on the way down.

This story is heart-breaking. It's not hard to imagine what she went through that night, how much she must have suffered physically and mentally, how afraid she must have been. A YouTube video described the conditions in that locale on that night: "Chest-deep snow, temperature around zero, wind chill minus 30."

[fatlazyless]

This newspaper article ...... https://www.concordmonitor.com/hiker...-lost-48938126 ...... 11/23/2022 ..... suggests to me she was wearing either a small day pack or a trail running, mini pack that's used for trail running as opposed to a larger backpack?

She was hiking/running the Falling Waters trail, going up, and the Old Bridle Path trail, coming down, a summit loop over Mt Little Haystack-4760', Mt Lincoln-5089', and Mt Lafayette-5260', starting and finishing from the Old Bridle Path trail head parking lot off Route 93 within the Franconia Notch Parkway.

So, what's the distance and elevation gain and elevation loss for this trail hiking loop? About 8.8-miles ..... https://www.northeasthikes.com/littl...onia-notch-nh/ ..... elevation gain and loss ..... you go do it!

When they found her body she was barefoot with or without socks(?), maybe, so could be she lost her trail running shoes while moving through some deeper dense, wind blown snow plus maybe being very cold, freez'n cold and maybe very scared-to-death.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This newspaper article ...... https://www.concordmonitor.com/hiker...-lost-48938126 ...... 11/23/2022 ..... suggests to me she was wearing either a small day pack or a trail running, mini pack that's used for trail running as opposed to a larger backpack?

She was hiking/running the Falling Waters trail, going up, and the Old Bridle Path trail, coming down, a summit loop over Mt Little Haystack-4760', Mt Lincoln-5089', and Mt Lafayette-5260', starting and finishing from the Old Bridle Path trail head parking lot off Route 93 within the Franconia Notch Parkway.

So, what's the distance and elevation gain and elevation loss for this trail hiking loop? About 8.8-miles ..... https://www.northeasthikes.com/littl...onia-notch-nh/ ..... elevation gain and loss ..... you go do it!

When they found her body she was barefoot with or without socks(?), maybe, so could be she lost her trail running shoes while moving through some deeper dense, wind blown snow plus maybe being very cold, freez'n cold and maybe very scared-to-death.

More than likely, her possessions were scattered because she'd become hypothermic and no longer able to make rational decisions.

There's no doubt she had decided on fast and light, which a bunch of people do every day. The outcome of hiking on that threshold, of course, depends on the hiker's overall skill set and familiarity with the terrain.

The turn that people are speculating she missed is a well-known fault-point that has been identified in the past through other rescues. If that is accurate, it's an even more disappointing outcome as she may literally have been one turn off.

I do my best to avoid judgment in circumstances like this because the reality is that hiking, especially in winter, comes with inherent risks...many of which are unable to be controlled for.

In this scenario, however, the victim was woefully unprepared starting with the fact that at 5AM, almost two hours before sunrise, she was navigating by cellphone flashlight.

There is no consolation in that, of course, but a grim reminder of the importance of preparedness.

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This newspaper article ...... https://www.concordmonitor.com/hiker...-lost-48938126 ...... 11/23/2022 ..... suggests to me she was wearing either a small day pack or a trail running, mini pack that's used for trail running as opposed to a larger backpack?

She was hiking/running the Falling Waters trail, going up, and the Old Bridle Path trail, coming down, a summit loop over Mt Little Haystack-4760', Mt Lincoln-5089', and Mt Lafayette-5260', starting and finishing from the Old Bridle Path trail head parking lot off Route 93 within the Franconia Notch Parkway.

So, what's the distance and elevation gain and elevation loss for this trail hiking loop? About 8.8-miles ..... https://www.northeasthikes.com/littl...onia-notch-nh/ ..... elevation gain and loss ..... you go do it!

When they found her body she was barefoot with or without socks(?), maybe, so could be she lost her trail running shoes while moving through some deeper dense, wind blown snow plus maybe being very cold, freez'n cold and maybe very scared-to-death.

Hypothermic people often take off their clothes in delirium, so it "makes sense" that she was barefoot.

One thing that does not make sense is the explanation that she did not dress properly because she lacked winter hiking experience, although she had summer hiking experience. Those who have hiked 4000' on anything other than a few lucky days in July know that she was woefully underdressed from the start. So sad and senseless...

[8gv]

If there is a correct turn and an incorrect turn, would it be reasonable to improve the markings to make the choices more obvious?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Hypothermic people often take off their clothes in delirium, so it "makes sense" that she was barefoot.

One thing that does not make sense is the explanation that she did not dress properly because she lacked winter hiking experience, although she had summer hiking experience. Those who have hiked 4000' on anything other than a few lucky days in July know that she was woefully underdressed from the start. So sad and senseless...

I hike with a few women who dress exactly the same as Emily was...but they carry layers for emergencies.

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by 8gv

If there is a correct turn and an incorrect turn, would it be reasonable to improve the markings to make the choices more obvious?

It's not a turn so much as a bend in the trail that, in certain conditions, can be deceptive.

Some of the discussion resulting from this event revolves around what level of signage is reasonable. There are a ton of such areas that are potentially difficult to navigate—the split at Old Bridle Path and Skookumchuck, which is just above the one we're discussing, being another.

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[SailinAway]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Hypothermic people often take off their clothes in delirium, so it "makes sense" that she was barefoot.

One thing that does not make sense is the explanation that she did not dress properly because she lacked winter hiking experience, although she had summer hiking experience. Those who have hiked 4000' on anything other than a few lucky days in July know that she was woefully underdressed from the start. So sad and senseless...

She had already hiked almost all of the 48 4000 footers. In that case, it's hard to understand why she wasn't better prepared---the AMC guide is very explicit about conditions in the White Mountains. I too feel that she was doomed from the start and the only thing that could have saved her was good judgment (turning back)---something 19-year-olds aren't particularly good at. If you go off the trail, at some point you realize you're in deep snow in trail shoes and you turn back---unless your thinking is impaired. Had she been hiking with another person, perhaps they would have made better decisions together.

[ITD]

Unfortunately you don't know what you don't know. And sometimes that will kill you.

RIP to the young lady. I honestly don't know how to prevent people who don't know from doing this. But it seems to happen every so often.

[webmaster]

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

[fatlazyless]

June 18, 2022 ........ 53-year old, experienced male hiker freezes to death on the Gulfside Trail below Mt Clay, close to Mt Washington ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/06/20...-mt-clay-dies/


November 20 or 21, 2022 ...... 19-year old, experienced female hiker freezes to death on the Old Bridle Path trail descending Mt Lafayette ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/11/23...d-mt-lafayette


So ...... attention everybody ....... so, here's my big question ..... with hindsight being 20-20, what would have kept these two different experienced hikers from Massachusetts alive and still able to go hiking, here in New Hampshire again today, if they had both done something different on the day they got froze to death hiking the White Mountains in New Hampshire?

Answer: Don't die climbing the mountain, turn around and go back, and wait for a better weather day. Warm and wind protective clothing, warm mittens, a warm hat, good food-drink, a headlight flashlight, sturdy wooden matches and fire starters in a small plastic bag, a compass, a good quality whistle, a sleeping bag and insulated sleeping pad and your own CAUTIOUS approach to cold weather hiking will go a long way to getting you there and back, safely, while doing a winter day hike.

And, how come their smart phones did not save either one of these two dead hikers from freezing to death in June, and November, 2022?
...............

p.s. ..... shouldn't this thread's title be corrected to "Mt Lafayette-5260' Hiker"....... and who the heck was the Marquis de Lafayette? .....

[Susie Cougar]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

She obviously was not prepared on any level. We may never know exactly what happened but I believe the story started before she even got to the parking lot. Too many things just don’t add up.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

I agree with this.

But, wouldn't her cell phone signal show where she is at assuming three things; A). It's turned on and B). Battery strength was fine and C). Cell service was available.

The outcome is sad. Let's hope this unhappy ending proves to be a valued learning curve for a future hiker.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

June 18, 2022 ........ 53-year old, experienced male hiker freezes to death on the Gulfside Trail below Mt Clay, close to Mt Washington ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/06/20...-mt-clay-dies/


November 20 or 21, 2022 ...... 19-year old, experienced female hiker freezes to death on the Old Bridle Path trail descending Mt Lafayette ...... http://www.nhfishgame.com/2022/11/23...d-mt-lafayette


So ...... attention everybody ....... here's the big question ..... with hindsight being 20-20, what would have kept these two different experienced hikers from Massachusetts alive and still able to go hiking, here in New Hampshire again today, if they had both done something different on the day they got froze to death hiking the White Mountains in New Hampshire?

Answer: Don't die climbing the mountain, turn around and go back, and wait for a better weather day, plus having warm protective clothing, food, drink and a headlight flashlight helps, too.

And, how come their smart phone did not save them?

Well to start, a very good understanding of weather and where to find the pertinent information. Looking at the MSN icon on your phone is not a proper weather briefing for a hike like this, especially in or near the winter. You need to understand that the adiabatic lapse rate is about 3 to 5 degrees per thousand feet elevation. ( so sea level to 4000 feet is about 15 degrees less at altitude than at sea level) This does not account for other conditions such as fronts, inversions, etc. Wind generally increases at altitude, as a cold front goes through and especially after a cold front goes through the wind can go from calm to crazy in minutes.

Cell phones don't work in these areas, this means maps on your phone too, unless you have made preparations ahead of time.

You need to map out your route and make sure someone knows it. Write it down.

As the webmaster noted, EPIRBs are very inexpensive now and can have rescue crews to your location quickly. Get one. In fact I probably will get one for snowmobile season if we get any snow here.

Hike with a buddy. For so many reasons it's a bad idea to hike like this alone, especially this time of year.

Dress or carry clothes that will allow you to survive really cold weather for the night, or more.

This is common sense to me. But a young person just may have not done the research.

There are many hobbies that are just not forgiving of missteps or negligence, as innocent as this girl's mistake probably was, she paid the ultimate price. Hopefully others can learn and not repeat the mistake.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

Kate Matrosova had a PLB, but it didn't save her life. Although they can be useful, in her case it pinged off different towers and led to different location signals. Most likely it was because it was still in her backpack and not oriented correctly.

There's also the reality that the user has to be in the right frame of mind to use it.

The reality is that all the safety gear in the world reduces the risk but does not cancel it out altogether.

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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

I agree with this.

But, wouldn't her cell phone signal show where she is at assuming three things; A). It's turned on and B). Battery strength was fine and C). Cell service was available.

The outcome is sad. Let's hope this unhappy ending proves to be a valued learning curve for a future hiker.

I have to think her phone was dead long before she got in trouble given 1. She used it as a flashlight, 2. She wasn't carrying enough gear to assume she had a charging pack, 3. It was too cold for a battery to survive a day unless she had the right insulation, which she clearly did not.

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[4 for Boating]

As sort of an aside - I believe the new iPhone 14 has the ability to send an SOS if needed on any network like the older models but this particular version (14 family) has the ability to send such an SOS via satellite if no cell signal is present. An impressive feature especially for those going off the beaten path and may end up saving some lives.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Kate Matrosova had a PLB, but it didn't save her life. Although they can be useful, in her case it pinged off different towers and led to different location signals. Most likely it was because it was still in her backpack and not oriented correctly.

There's also the reality that the user has to be in the right frame of mind to use it.

The reality is that all the safety gear in the world reduces the risk but does not cancel it out altogether.

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I just read a little about Kate. Her accident chain began when she decided to go hiking in spite of a blizzard warning. Then apparently she wasn't carrying the equipment required to survive should the blizzard hit. She probably thought she could beat the weather. Unfortunately weather doesn't always follow the forecaster's schedule. I fly small aircraft and this happens a lot.

The PLB issue was unfortunate, but apparently the first signal pointed very close where she was found. Newer PLBs use gps for location and transmit to satellites. They are supposed to be very reliable. I've never owned or used one though. I hope I would not put myself into a situation like this, but I'm sure these ladies didn't think they were putting themselves into a situation like this when they started their hikes.

It's very sad.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I hike with a few women who dress exactly the same as Emily was...but they carry layers for emergencies.

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Of course--what she was wearing was entirely appropriate. It's what she did not have in her pack that is the issue

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TXQYTTN...gencybeacon-20

Thanks! I have not hiked significantly in the past few years, but my plan has been to resume this spring. I hiked alone often before these were so inexpensive, but never considered one due to cost. I will buy one in April

[mowtorman]

Federal lawsuit over risk warning and responsibility in wilderness areas 25 years ago in 1994. She rode past her friends who had stopped and right over the headwall on a tube or plastic toboggan. Family sued either NH or the federal government.

MOUNT WASHINGTON, N.H. (AP) _ A hiker slipped and plunged 100 feet into a crevasse, becoming the third person to die on Mount Washington this year.

Cheryl Weingarten, 21, of Hewlett, N.Y., slid on snow and ice Sunday at Tuckerman Ravine and fell into a chasm, breaking her neck, said Rebecca Oreskes, U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman. Her body was recovered Monday.

Weingarten, a student at Tufts University in Medford, Mass., and two friends had hiked to the mountain’s 6,288-foot summit and were headed down, Oreskes said. Rescuers said they were not properly equipped for winter hiking.

[TheProfessor]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Since no one has mentioned it, I have to wonder why anyone would venture out on a hike like this (especially alone) without carrying an emergency personal locator beacon:

My hunter friends carry a Garmin GPS that brings them back to their car/truck.

LINK


On a completely different note. Garmin makes GPS units for dogs.
LINK

[fatlazyless]

Emily Sotelo froze to death on either Nov 20 or 21 or maybe 22. Her body was found on the 23rd at about 11-am.

Her problem was that she kept going when the weather turned cold and windy, plus she didn't have any warm clothing.

Whether she had a backpack, day pack or trail running mini-pack is unknown so could be she had only the clothes she was wearing.

Wednesday, Nov 23 would have been her 20th birthday so she will be forever, age-19, and some legend myth will arise seeing her ghost running that Franconia Ridge trail for the next hundred years.

I think I just saw Emily ........ there she goes! ...... up that steep, rocky trail! ...... there goes Emily! ......

http://theswellesleyreport.com/2022/...ite-mountains/ .... Former Wellesley public school student dies while hiking in White Mountains

...... "Sotelo had been a musician, a cross country runner, and a talented writer acknowledged by a Scholastic Art & Writing Award."

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Emily Sotelo froze to death on either Nov 20 or 21 or maybe 22. Her body was found on the 23rd at about 11-am.

Her problem was that she kept going when the weather turned cold and windy, plus she didn't have any warm clothing.

Whether she had a backpack, day pack or trail running mini-pack is unknown so could be she had only the clothes she was wearing.

Wednesday, Nov 23 would have been her 20th birthday so she will be forever, age-19, and some legend myth will arise seeing her ghost running that Franconia Ridge trail for the next hundred years.

I think I just saw Emily ........ there she goes! ...... up that steep, rocky trail! ...... there goes Emily! ......

Your demented, you know that….

[mowtorman]

Sympathy for tinnitus, comedy for another death in the White Mtns. Another new low. How low can you go?

[Mr. V]

R.I.P. Emily Sotelo.

She lived her life on her own terms.

[Pine Island Guy]

When an incident occurs like this in the White Mountains there is a battalion of rescuers, both paid and volunteer, that risk their own lives to try and find the person that (often times) has gone hiking without the proper precautions or experience.

For whatever reason, people don't believe the incredible and swift changes in weather that can occur up there... starting with the first hiker death in 1849... almost 200 years and people still think that they won't be another one.

These brave rescuers put their own lives on the line for others, going out in the worst of the worst conditions. A few years ago, one of them died in an avalanche trying to find two woefully unprepared 17 year old's (both of them found alive four days later, although lost limbs to frostbite).

This 20 year old losing her life is very sad indeed, but let's not forget the rescue squad that tried to have it turn out to be a happier conclusion!!!

It continues to be a beautiful week on the island, ice will be coming in soon enough (hopefully) -PIG

[SailinAway]

While it's important to acknowledge the harm that rescuers risk, it's also a fact that ALL people are subject to certain tendencies of the human mind (hubris, psychological biases, impulsivity, etc.), and that the brain isn't fully developed until age 25, which explains in part why teenagers can have poor judgment. Anybody here who hasn't made a major error of judgment at some point? I sometimes make such errors even after gathering a lot of information and thoroughly analyzing a problem. Some mountain accidents are just plain dumb. Others happen in less blameworthy circumstances. Hopefully we will learn more about how and why Emily Sotelo died.

[fatlazyless]

Here's a trail description ...... http://www.alltrails.com/trail/us/ne...dge-trail-loop ..... that makes it seem easy-peasy to do it.

It is unknown what her actual trail route was. Did she go up the Falling Waters Trail and come down the Old Bridle Path, or did she go up the Old Bridle Path on Mt Lafayette and turn around due to the cold and wind and descend back down the Old Bridle Path?

[Juiced06GTO]

My friends and I hiked up Mt Washington back in early June of 2012, up the Ammonoosuc trail, down the Great Gulf Trail to check out the views and then doubled back to the Jewell trail to head down. There were 6 couples, all the guys carried a pack with a ton of extra gear in it (and a special bottle of Jack Daniels so we could share a shot at the summit in honor of my Dad who had passed away a week prior)

We got hit with a storm while above treeline on the way back that just started absolutely hammering us with hail. Luckily it was not super cold, maybe in the 40's, and we were able to throw on rain gear and quickly navigate below treeline.

With all the stories associated with that area I can't imagine going in there ill prepared, especially this close to winter. It was early June for us and we made sure to have cold weather gear just in case! Sorry for the family in this one, very sad.

[fatlazyless]

The Tuesday, Nov 28, 2022, Laconia Daily Sun has a report, "How to stay safe outdoors in winter" by Jon Decker that speaks a lot about Emily Sotelo's most unhappy experience while hiking the Franconia Ridge on Nov 20.

It's a lengthy report and here's some quotes:

"Without proper equipment, it's easy for hypothermia to set in. Once that happens, it's easier to make even more mistakes."

"We're trying to make sense of something we would do when we're nice and warm, not hypothermic in a different frame of mind, reflected Eastman of Sotelo's situation. "Your hands and feet don't work the way you want to, you're panicking. She could have been in a bad spot before she hit the dogleg. The reason she got into the position she was in was because she was poorly provisioned, didn't have lights, means to start a fire, means to get out of there." ..... quote from Capt Mike Eastman, NH Fish & Game
...........

"How Does a Person Freeze to Death? "....... what happens? ..... http://www.livescience.com/6008-pers...eze-death.html ...... Jan 30, 2019

Something to ponder while totally warm and comfy, indoors on a cold wintry night......... yuuuh! .........

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

The Tuesday, Nov 28, 2022, Laconia Daily Sun has a report, "How to stay safe outdoors in winter" by Jon Decker that speaks a lot about Emily Sotelo's most unhappy experience while hiking the Franconia Ridge on Nov 20.

It's a lengthy report and here's some quotes:

"Without proper equipment, it's easy for hypothermia to set in. Once that happens, it's easier to make even more mistakes."

"We're trying to make sense of something we would do when we're nice and warm, not hypothermic in a different frame of mind, reflected Eastman of Sotelo's situation. "Your hands and feet don't work the way you want to, you're panicking. She could have been in a bad spot before she hit the dogleg. The reason she got into the position she was in was because she was poorly provisioned, didn't have lights, means to start a fire, means to get out of there." ..... quote from Capt Mike Eastman, NH Fish & Game
...........

"How Does a Person Freeze to Death? "....... what happens? ..... http://www.livescience.com/6008-pers...eze-death.html ...... Jan 30, 2019

Something to ponder while totally warm and comfy, indoors on a cold wintry night......... yuuuh! .........

Give it a rest...Stop making a mockery out of this poor girl's death.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Give it a rest...Stop making a mockery out of this poor girl's death.

If you have been emotionally moved by this tragic cold and windy weather, November 20 or 21, 2022 hiking death catastrophe on Mt Lafayette, white mountains, New Hampshire ..... https://news.yahoo.com/family-seeks-...235600792.html ...... your donation to one of the search and rescue teams is encouraged.

[Mr. V]

Another hiker dies in the White mtns.

RIP

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/us/hi...ire/index.html

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

Another hiker dies in the White mtns.

RIP

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/12/us/hi...ire/index.html

This one is at the other end of the spectrum--a completely prepared hiker putting his foot in the wrong spot. A good time to remember than the view from 10' away from the edge of the cliff is just as good as the precipice

[mowtorman]

Bad things happen to good people

Well prepared seasoned boaters crash
Mountaineers make mistakes, unwittingly.
People lose their lives in the lake and the White Mountains every year.

Risk in most everything even going out to dinner.
Another family tragedy compounded by the season, hopefully not a moment for stand up comedy dissection.

[Woodsy]

Sad.... Seems by all accounts that he was a great guy! Just goes to show 1 misstep could be life changing.


Woodsy

[4 for Boating]

Originally Posted by 4 for Boating

As sort of an aside - I believe the new iPhone 14 has the ability to send an SOS if needed on any network like the older models but this particular version (14 family) has the ability to send such an SOS via satellite if no cell signal is present. An impressive feature especially for those going off the beaten path and may end up saving some lives.

Well - that didn't take long for this new feature to to come into play:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/iphone-em...194918337.html

Don't know much about the beacons mentioned as I'm sure they are good/powerful tools to have but a phone upgrade to the 14 that can do this for the causal hiker seems like a no-brainer...

[LikeLakes]

Really a shame, from all accounts sounds like an experienced hiker and good guy. I wonder if we'll get an account of what happened eventually from his wife, did he back up taking a selfie, did he just slip at the edge? I know it really doesn't matter but I'd still be curious to know.

When we hike this weekend it will be the first time out with spikes this year, quite a change from a week ago.

[fatlazyless]

This page from https://yaktrax.com/traction.html shows twelve different types of traction attachments with different hardware at different prices to grip the ice, slush, snow, and steepness for supposedly safe winter walking and climbing.

For $19.95 I've had good use with going through about three pair in two years with the el cheapo $19.95 Yaktrax walk traction device named the Yaktrax Pro ... until the stretch rubber breaks apart ..... good for woods and hill walking ..... is somewhat similar to tire chains plus they are low price .....not too good for ice climbing at .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC9_NL-YLFs ...... at Frankenstein Cliff just down the Crawford Notch, Rt-302 road from the very popular hike up Mt Willard.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

This page from https://yaktrax.com/traction.html shows twelve different types of traction attachments with different hardware at different prices to grip the ice, slush, snow, and steepness for supposedly safe winter walking and climbing.

For $19.95 I've had good use with going through about three pair in two years with the el cheapo $19.95 Yaktrax walk traction device before the stretch rubber breaks apart ..... good for woods and hill walking ..... is somewhat similar to tire chains plus they are low price .....not too good for ice climbing at .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC9_NL-YLFs ...... Frankenstein Cliff.

From my personal experience, Yaktrax suck. They break, fall off, only fit certain footwear well. I much prefer Kahtoola Microspikes. Yes they cost 3 times what Yaktrax cost, but when I'm 4 miles in on a winter hike I'd rather have the quality product. They have several different options with more and less aggressive spikes.

[fatlazyless]

Walking devices with spikes or points are good for the steeps, but their pitfall is catching a spike while walking and falling down. The $19.95 Yaktrax Pro is similar to smooth tire chains and good for intermediate traction.

This Yaktrax link shows them at $34.95 but you can find them in Ebay for $19.95 ...... in July?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

From my personal experience, Yaktrax suck. They break, fall off, only fit certain footwear well. I much prefer Kahtoola Microspikes. Yes they cost 3 times what Yaktrax cost, but when I'm 4 miles in on a winter hike I'd rather have the quality product. They have several different options with more and less aggressive spikes.

The Hillsound Trail Crampon is my choice—a tad longer spikes and a Velcro strap that goes across the top of the foot to prevent them from falling off. I often see lost Kahtoolas hanging in the trees.

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[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

The Hillsound Trail Crampon is my choice—a tad longer spikes and a Velcro strap that goes across the top of the foot to prevent them from falling off. I often see lost Kahtoolas hanging in the trees.

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I just took a look, nice looking product. Similar in design to Kahtoola with the addition of the strap. I haven't had a microspike fall off yet, quite a few miles of mixed hiking. Funny your comment about hanging in trees, my last pair of Yaktrax I was hiking Tecumseh when I noticed one foot slipping, looked down and it had fallen off. I started back down and a hiker said they saw one that someone hung on a branch, so I was able to retrieve it, nice that they did that. After it fell off multiple times I ended up lacing it in place to finish the hike.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I just took a look, nice looking product. Similar in design to Kahtoola with the addition of the strap. I haven't had a microspike fall off yet, quite a few miles of mixed hiking. Funny your comment about hanging in trees, my last pair of Yaktrax I was hiking Tecumseh when I noticed one foot slipping, looked down and it had fallen off. I started back down and a hiker said they saw one that someone hung on a branch, so I was able to retrieve it, nice that they did that. After it fell off multiple times I ended up lacing it in place to finish the hike.

Yeah, Yaktrax are useless for anything beyond driveways.

Tecumseh is lame except for one thing: its proximity to Benton's Sugar Shack.

Any hikes planned? I did North Pack with my teacher friends last Saturday, which was great. My goal this year is to (finally) bag Waumbek and Starr King.

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[SailinAway]

For your driveway and smaller local trails: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...TF8&th=1&psc=1

They last a lot longer than the ones with the little studs. The rubber and the spikes are tough.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Yeah, Yaktrax are useless for anything beyond driveways.

Tecumseh is lame except for one thing: its proximity to Benton's Sugar Shack.

Any hikes planned? I did North Pack with my teacher friends last Saturday, which was great. My goal this year is to (finally) bag Waumbek and Starr King.

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I know what you mean about Tecumseh but I still enjoy it, easy to get up high on days when a longer round trip doesn't fit.

We hiked Waumbek for the first time this summer, really enjoyed it. Lately we've been doing 4-7 mile stuff, preferably loops, like Cardigan and Welch-Dickey. Also hike the Belkaps at times, Percival-Morgan, etc. I'd like to finish off the 4000's but have to allocate more time to do that.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

I know what you mean about Tecumseh but I still enjoy it, easy to get up high on days when a longer round trip doesn't fit.

We hiked Waumbek for the first time this summer, really enjoyed it. Lately we've been doing 4-7 mile stuff, preferably loops, like Cardigan and Welch-Dickey. Also hike the Belkaps at times, Percival-Morgan, etc. I'd like to finish off the 4000's but have to allocate more time to do that.

We did Major a few weeks ago, coming from the back side starting at Precipice West—what an awesome stretch.

Roberts may be my favorite in the area, The Bonds and Baldfaces my favorite overall.

How many 48's you have left?

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[LikeLakes]

We did Roberts a few months ago and loved it, what a great hike and the views are amazing.

I've done around 30, maybe 32. So 2/3 of the way there. How about you?

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by LikeLakes

We did Roberts a few months ago and loved it, what a great hike and the views are amazing.

I've done around 30, maybe 32. So 2/3 of the way there. How about you?

I'm not really paying attention, but I think somewhere in the high 30's.

My problem is that on most occasions I choose better hikes over bagging peaks. For example, I've headed up to bang out the Kinsmans three or four times...and have always ended up on the Ridge!

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[LikeLakes]

You'll like Kinsman, I wouldn't put those 2 in the peak bagging category. A bit of a haul though. I thought Waumbek might be a slog but we ended up really enjoying it.

[thinkxingu]

I've been waiting for Waumbek for winter—it's supposed to be a nice one in the snow. Pretty far ride from the south, though.

Happy trails, friend!

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[fatlazyless]

"19-year-old hiker who died in New Hampshire remembered as caring, determined" ...... http://www.wmur.com/article/new-hamp...tuary/42329440 ...... published Dec 23, 2022

She started her hike on Sunday, Nov 20 at 4:30-am, and her frozen dead body was found on Wednesday, Nov 23, 2022 at 11:15-am on the north west side of Mt Lafayette.

....... such a tragedy ...... rest in peace .....(whatever that means?) ....... Emily Sotelo

[thinkxingu]

Another fatality on the Ridge: https://www.wmur.com/article/man-fou...-hike/42335679

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[WinnisquamZ]

Read the story. His family in China was in communication with search and rescue. They located his body a 2am this morning. Risking their lives in sub zero temperatures. On one of the great holidays away from their families. No words for there sacrifices. Have many words I will keep to myself about these selfish winter hikers.


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Read the story. His family in China was in communication with search and rescue. Found his body a 2am this morning. Risking their lives in sub zero temperatures. On one of the great holidays away from their families. No words for there sacrifices.


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Agreed, though I'm wondering if the person wasn't local given the China tracking thing.

I just finished "Critical Hours, Search and Rescue in the White Mountains." It wasn't awesome, but it's a solid reminder of SAR's dedication.

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[8gv]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Read the story. His family in China was in communication with search and rescue. They located his body a 2am this morning. Risking their lives in sub zero temperatures. On one of the great holidays away from their families. No words for there sacrifices. Have many words I will keep to myself about these selfish winter hikers.


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Unfortunately a life was lost, but...

Why Christmas eve?

Why on an extremely cold day that followed rain and or snow?

Why do this with a lack of experience and possibly a lack of proper equipment?

My sympathy goes to the search party, not the deceased.

At what point do they just say "It's too risky for us tonight"?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Seriously…..

“ The hiker's family said he was inexperienced and they did not know which equipment he had, New Hamsphire Fish and Game said”.

One of the members on this forum has a signature that says “You can’t fix stupid”. How appropriate.

[fatlazyless]

www.nhfishgame.com/category/general-news ..... perusing the headlines for 2022, the headlines mention these year-2022 deaths.

1. 1/31/2022: Mansfield, Massachusetts Man Dies in a Snowmobile Crash

2. 2/07/2022: Fatality in the White Mountains

3. 6/06/2022: Berlin Man Killed in Single Vehicle ATV Crash

4. 6/20/2022: UPDATE: Hiker Rescued from Gulfside Trail Near Mt. Clay Dies

5.8/1/2022: Hiker Dies on Jewell Trail

6. 8/22/2022: Hiker Dies on Cannon Mountain

7. 8/26/2022: Canadian Man Collapses and Dies While Hiking Mount Washington

8. 9/06/2022: Hiker Dies after Suffering Medical Emergency on Bunnell Notch Trail

9. 9/09/2022: Drowning Victim Recovered from the Connecticut River

10. 10/24/2022: Massachusetts Man Dies While Hiking in Lincoln

11. 11/08/2022: Untimely Death in Pittsburg

12. 11/23/2022: Missing Massachusetts Hiker Located Deceased, Mt Lafayette

13. 12/12/2022: Hiker Fatality on Mt Willard, Crawford Notch

14. 12/25/2022: 28-year old male hiker, somewhere off Falling Waters trail (from WMUR)

So it looks like 14 deaths, so far in 2022 with twelve men and two women (death #8, #12) from the NH Fish and Game general news headlines.
...................

Say hey ...... they don't call New Hampshire ...... the 'Live Free or Die' state, for nothing! ..... plus all these Fish and Game jurisdiction deaths make for a very happening tv show ..... www.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Woods_Law. You know that Maine is called 'The Pine Tree State' so it's no surprise that North Woods Law got moved from Maine to New Hampshire in 2017.

And, death #9, 9/09/2022, was an Appalachian Trail thru hiker, a 45 year old man from Mississippi who hiked all the way from Georgia and supposedly tripped and fell, drowning into the Connecticut River in Norwich Vermont, across from Hanover NH.
..................

Did you know ....... "If a person has a current New Hampshire hunting or fishing license, current Off-Highway Recreational Vehicle or snowmobile registration, or current boat registration, they receive the same benefit." ..... as a $25 NH Hike Safe card.

[ApS]

'Think I'll stay home...

Nineteen-year-old hiker killed by coyotes:

https://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Mus...singer.killed/

Study showed why first case in North America developed:

https://www.cnet.com/science/biology...human-in-2009/

Be careful out there...

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Unfortunately a life was lost, but...

Why Christmas eve?

Why on an extremely cold day that followed rain and or snow?

Why do this with a lack of experience and possibly a lack of proper equipment?

My sympathy goes to the search party, not the deceased.

At what point do they just say "It's too risky for us tonight"?

Yes. I had not thought of suicide, which you seem to imply. But it is very hard to understand how an inexperienced person is not so overwhelmed by the cold that they turn round after just 15 or 20 minutes

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by 8gv

Why do this with a lack of experience and possibly a lack of proper equipment

That's the main point.

I think I've talked about this before, but ... when I winter hike, I've got the right equipment, plus spares of critical items. My planning method is to think about sitting down in the snow or rocks or whatever, and have to stay there for 6-8 hours or even overnight, whether because I'm injured or weather or having to help someone else. Might not be comfortable, but would be safe, no frostbite. I've done enough of this to be confident but also very cautious.

Nobody should be winter hiking alone without experience. Period. And nobody should be winter hiking unprepared, or ill equipped. Put the 2 together and it's not a remote chance of dying, it's a distinct possibility. And those dedicated, hugely capable rescue crews had to spend a family holiday searching. This has to stop.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Yes. I had not thought of suicide, which you seem to imply. But it is very hard to understand how an inexperienced person is not so overwhelmed by the cold that they turn round after just 15 or 20 minutes

For anyone who has not seen this, an article by Ty Gagne about a man who went up to Washington to kill himself and was saved by a good samaritan. This is the basis for the movie Infinite Storm.

https://www.outdoors.org/resources/a...tional-rescue/

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[LikeLakes]

We watched the movie a few months ago. Definitely a few differences in the movie, but such a difficult story from the all angles.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

For anyone who has not seen this, an article by Ty Gagne about a man who went up to Washington to kill himself and was saved by a good samaritan. This is the basis for the movie Infinite Storm.

https://www.outdoors.org/resources/a...tional-rescue/

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Good movie!

For those who enjoy mountaineering movies, I also recommend Free Solo and Into Thin Air

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Good movie!

For those who enjoy mountaineering movies, I also recommend Free Solo and Into Thin Air

Was it good? If I recall correctly, the reviews were awful.

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[pondguy]

The movie can be found on Youtube

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by pondguy

The movie can be found on Youtube

We don't have YouTube premium, but looking at the ratings—hovering in the 5/10 range—I'm not sure it matters!

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[LikeLakes]

It's not great, but an interesting enough watch that I didn't regret it. I was bothered that the backdrop wasn't the White's, not sure where it was.

[Mr. V]

What is with you people denigrating the 19 year old who died recently?

He was young and inexperienced.

Probably he had no mentor to teach him, with his family on the other side of the world.

As for hiking on xmas: that is a holiday for christians, and he might not have been one.

Cut the dead guy some slack...

[pondguy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

We don't have YouTube premium, but looking at the ratings—hovering in the 5/10 range—I'm not sure it matters!

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You don't need premium just sign in with an email address, let me see if i can find a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MXI_zfGScA

[WinnisquamZ]

Originally Posted by Mr. V

What is with you people denigrating the 19 year old who died recently?

He was young and inexperienced.

Probably he had no mentor to teach him, with his family on the other side of the world.

As for hiking on xmas: that is a holiday for christians, and he might not have been one.

Cut the dead guy some slack...

Absolutely not. His stupidity risk lives of other. I will not feel sorry for this stupid individual


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[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by pondguy

You don't need premium just sign in with an email address, let me see if i can find a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MXI_zfGScA

Thanks for the link. I just started it and, yes, it's weird that not only is it not filmed in the Whites but they don't even really try to make it look like it. The AVSAR patch and map in her house are the only references...so far.

Oh, and I'll add that NH hikers are nowhere near that friendly in parking lots!

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[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Was it good? If I recall correctly, the reviews were awful.

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I enjoyed it. But I really enjoy that sort of thing, so maybe it was not a good movie and the subject mater was enough for me? Given that you've recommended the Ty Gagne book numerous times, I think the movie is worth a look, at least for you. The other two movies I recommended are excellent, and have been enjoyed by wide audiences

[thinkxingu]

You guys, this movie isn't very good... annnddd I didn't finish it.

So many oversights and overdramatized moments I just couldn't make it through.

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[pondguy]

The last half hour made it more understandable they had allot in common. Into Thin Air is also on YouTube.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by pondguy

The last half hour made it more understandable they had allot in common. Into Thin Air is also on YouTube.

It was mostly the corniness of her quotes and way overdramatized situations. Like, the hole she falls into over and over? That wouldn't exist anywhere near the trail and didn't mesh with the snow cover, etc.

Into Thin Air kept much closer to reality, so I liked that much more.

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[fatlazyless]

https://www.wmur.com/article/officia...trail/42340756 .... 'Officials identify hiker found dead on Franconia trail'

If the AMC Greenleaf Hut ..... http://www.outdoors.org/destinations...greenleaf-hut/ ...... located about one mile down below from the summit of Mt Lafayette overlooking Eagle Lake on the Old Bridle Path ..... was kept open all year long, this area in the mountains would get more winter day hikers, and provide a warm, safe place to get into a heated building and come in from the cold.

Believe that's something that happens in the Swiss Alps.

Sometime in the past, back in the 1970's me-thinks Greenleaf Hut had a winter care-taker and you could stop in for a hot chocolate, bowl of lentil soup, and delicious home made banana bread. That's the summit of Mt Lafayette up above the Greenleaf Hut.

...... those were the days.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

https://www.wmur.com/article/officia...trail/42340756 .... 'Officials identify hiker found dead on Franconia trail'

If the AMC Greenleaf Hut ..... http://www.outdoors.org/destinations...greenleaf-hut/ ...... located about one mile down below from the summit of Mt Lafayette overlooking Eagle Lake on the Old Bridle Path ..... was kept open all year long, this area in the mountains would get more winter day hikers, and provide a warm, safe place to get into a heated building and come in from the cold.

Believe that's something that happens in the Swiss Alps.

Sometime in the past, back in the 1970's me-thinks Greenleaf Hut had a winter care-taker and you could stop in for a hot chocolate, bowl of lentil soup, and delicious home made banana bread. That's the summit of Mt Lafayette up above the Greenleaf Hut.

...... those were the days.

I think that would just provide a false sense of security and increase incidents.

In fact, "Critical Hours" begins with a story about the old quonset hut thing near Madison that people began to see as a destination rather than emergency use.

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[LikeLakes]

Right, they ended up removing the quonset hut in Edmonds Col because too many people were using it to overnight rather than as an emergency shelter.

I've thought about the huts being open in winter over the years. I don't buy the "if they are open, more people will get in trouble" theory. If that were so, then Lonesome Lake and Carter Notch wouldn't be kept open. I think it's hard to staff, hard to supply, and hard environmentally to deal with people at most of the huts so AMC makes the financial/impact decision to keep them closed.

Gray Knob on Mt. Adams is open in winter, and Crag Camp isn't officially open but you can shelter there (or at least you could when I was last there in winter). As far as I know neither has contributed to more accidents.

I'm sorry the guy died, sorry for his family, it is truly sad. That doesn't excuse his actions. He had a phone he could navigate with, which means he had a phone he could spend 30 minutes online with and learn of the conditions and weather forecast and minimum equipment needed for that hike. People have to be responsible.

[pondguy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I think that would just provide a false sense of security and increase incidents.

In fact, "Critical Hours" begins with a story about the old quonset hut thing near Madison that people began to see as a destination rather than emergency use.

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There is a book by Nicholas Howe "Not Without Peril" that gives 150 years of history of people lost in the White Mountains.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

I think that would just provide a false sense of security and increase incidents.

In fact, "Critical Hours" begins with a story about the old quonset hut thing near Madison that people began to see as a destination rather than emergency use.

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Here's a photo of of the old emergency shelter at Edmund's Col ..... http://www.summitpost.org/emergency-...d-s-col/992659

As I recall it was 6' tall at the highest point, and maybe 8' wide x 10' long without a door at the entry. It was somewhat similar to a dog house with absolutely nothing inside, just the concrete foundation and the steel enclosure.

Edmund's Col , elevation 4938', is north on Mt Jefferson, elevation 5712'.

[LikeLakes]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

For those who enjoy mountaineering movies, I also recommend Free Solo and Into Thin Air

Add The Alpinist to the list. It is a must see. If something can induce more stress than Free Solo, than this movie is it. Alex Honnold appears in it as well.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by pondguy

There is a book by Nicholas Howe "Not Without Peril" that gives 150 years of history of people lost in the White Mountains.

Pretty good book, for sure. I wonder if it'll be updated to reflect the last, what, thirteen years? It looks like the last update was '09.

In terms of the huts, I think someone here said the law calls things like that "attractive nuisances." I think the reason Lonesome Lake, Carter, Crag, etc. are still open is because they simply haven't become problems.

In either case, these deaths are incredibly sad and often avoidable...but empathy is still good.

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