Tax Bills around the lake

BlackCatIslander · 11-09-2006, 07:09 PM

We just received our second and final tax bill from the Town of Moultonborough. Although our bill went up over 14 percent this year, the total increase over the last three years has been slightly less than 7 percent. This was due to a substantial decrease in 2005.

Over the same three years, we have seen our tax valuation increase 94 percent. My impression is that valuations are at or slightly above market values. I am not complaining but I wonder what will happen next year with flat or declining home sales and values. Over the same three year period our home in Mass. has seen a total tax increase of slightly more than 8 percent.

I wonder what others are experiencing in the other communities around the lake.

Paugus Bay Resident · 11-09-2006, 08:00 PM

In Gilford, my valuation went up a little over 7% (one year; 2005 to 2006).

fatlazyless · 11-09-2006, 08:26 PM

In Meredith, my quarter acre lot and 55 year old mongrel cabin had its assessed value increase by 99.75%, as the town and Vision Appraisal Co revalued it from 401k to 801k in one year from June 2005 to June 2006. Can anyone beat that? Lucky me!

Silver Duck · 11-09-2006, 08:35 PM

Here's a novel thought - how about a law requiring the town to buy a property at its assessed value at the homeowner's request?

Seems to me that such a law would keep assessments at fair market value!

Silver Duck

Pineedles · 11-09-2006, 09:12 PM

Wow, what a wonderful program that would be. Buy me out at the assesed value, whenever I decide I want to bail out.

Don't get me wrong, because I too am a out of state owner and don't enjoy taxation without representation but that's not a solution. But I, and all other non-resident owners I'm sure appreciate the attempt at a solution.

Airwaves · 11-09-2006, 09:13 PM

Actually my assessment in Gilford went up by $50K, but my actual tax liability went down.

I know this is a forbidden topic in NH, but unless and until there is an income tax or a sales tax that spreads the tax liability for the state and municipalities among ALL NH residents, then property owners will continue to bear all of the tax the burden!

It's not rocket science.

Pineedles · 11-09-2006, 09:20 PM

I too wanted to maintain one place that was free of least some form of taxation that I lived in, but........... the time is now for NH to grow up and realize that all its needs cannot be met with taxing only tourists. There has been a complete reversal of party representation in this state so let the revolution begin! Dems, impose an income tax on NH residents and you can be the heroes that saved the state of NH!! Yee HAA!

Resident 2B · 11-10-2006, 12:29 AM

As a no vote, big tax payer, I have often though of hosting an event on the Mount Washington.....a modern day "T" party. My assessment is 30% over real value and the assessment is supposed to be 92% of value. No way!

In this environmental friendly event, everyone would wear a "T" shirt with an original anti-tax slogan writen on it. The boat does not even need to leave the dock to keep cost down. After all, with the high taxes, we do not have much left to spend at local establishments!

Any thoughts?

Best regards,

R2B

Airwaves · 11-10-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Dems, impose an income tax on NH residents and you can be the heroes that saved the state of NH!! Yee HAA!

Or, God forbid, you spread it around to all the folks actually living and working in NH help to pay into the system so that your property tax goes down! Guess that's too liberal an idea heh?

I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking! 18.90 per Thousand in Franklin NH is a resonable rate to pay! After all, Franklin offers sooooo much!......uhhh

EllyPoinster · 11-10-2006, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Actually my assessment in Gilford went up by $50K, but my actual tax liability went down.

I know this is a forbidden topic in NH, but unless and until there is an income tax or a sales tax that spreads the tax liability for the state and municipalities among ALL NH residents, then property owners will continue to bear all of the tax the burden!

It's not rocket science.

B*llsh*t. Virtually all adults in NH with a roof over their heads pay property taxes. Some just don't pay it directly and can't claim it as a deduction on their income tax return.

MJM · 11-10-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineedles

........... the time is now for NH to grow up and realize that all its needs cannot be met with taxing only tourists.

Taxing only tourists? Really?! Does this mean I don't have to pay my property tax bill any more?!

Stop trying to turn NH into another MA. Many of us moved here because it's a better way. If you like the way things are in MA, great! We already have one of those!

Waterbaby · 11-10-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

Actually my assessment in Gilford went up by $50K, but my actual tax liability went down.

I know this is a forbidden topic in NH, but unless and until there is an income tax or a sales tax that spreads the tax liability for the state and municipalities among ALL NH residents, then property owners will continue to bear all of the tax the burden!

It's not rocket science.

Oh good grief, here goes this subject rearing it's ugly head again! If you are a NH resident who is a property owner, you pay property taxes. If you are a NH resident who is a renter, you indirectly pay property taxes. Rent paid covers Prinicipal, Interest, Taxes, and Insurance (ever heard the real estate term, PITI payment?) on a property, plus some additional income for the owner.

If you rent a motel or hotel room, or a campground site, etc., you are contributing to the owner's property tax bill...not to mention the M&R tax in this state.

And you say it's the property owners who bear all of the tax burden? I'd say, think again.

Do I think non-resident property owners should have a say in expenditures in their particular town? Yes. Do I think they should have a say in county or state expenditures? Yes. I can see it would create some additional "enforcement" responsibilities on the voting officials but it could be done by changing the "check in" system a bit.

I challenge you non-resident property owners to find out who the legislators are in the areas in which you own property, contact them, and start lobbying for the laws in this or any other state to be changed to allow non-residents to vote in the local elections. Seems to me that would be a more productive use of your time than moaning about a system you knew was in place when you purchased property in this state as a non-resident.

BlackCatIslander · 11-10-2006, 10:31 AM

When I started this thread, I said that I was not complaining about the taxes. And, I pointed out that my Mass. taxes had gone up slightly more over a 3 year period.

I do think that Waterbaby has some good suggestions although I don't see non resident taxpayers having much say in town affairs. I guess that the tax bill is the price we willingly pay to enjoy access to this wonderful area.

MJM · 11-10-2006, 12:00 PM

And what about those that live in NH (so pay the high property taxes) and work in MA (so pay the high income tax)? Double-whammy!

And although I am not a non-resident property owner, I totally agree it is wrong that folk who are don't get a vote in the town. Taxation Without Representation

JPC · 11-10-2006, 01:11 PM

My assesment in Milford went up quite a bit but the overall tax burden went down due to revaluation in town. Most od the decrease was due to Veterans deduction going up.

However, has anyone though about why so many retired folks leave the state? Yeah I know they hate snow but also their income goes down but property tax keeps going up. This affect mostly the low/middle income retired people. Why do so many third generation owners of vacation property have to sell because of ever excallating property taxes (yes, due to escallating vlaues)? I through that in because I'm sure some self serving individual will say "sell, make a profit, and let someone else pay the tax. The high value means diddly squat until you are ready to sell and then you still pay a Capital gains tax.

I don't expect this to go anywhere because there is so much distrust with politicians stealing our money even though "We the People" elected them.

jrc · 11-10-2006, 02:52 PM

NH's tax structure is not very friendly to people with wealth. It is more friendly to people with income. It's actually a very progressive model.

People with expensive or several homes, people with a lot of money in the bank, people with a lot of stocks and bonds, people who smoke and people who eat in restaurants, all pay more taxes than the average person.

People who use all their income to buy food at grocery store and pay their rent, pay less than than average. Sure there are taxes buried in their staples but all of their payments are indirect.

A big down side of this model is that retired people with assets are better off picking a state without high property taxes and without taxes on interest and dividends.

An up side of this model over income tax is visibilty, income tax comes out before you see it. If it goes up a little every year you don't notice, and before long the goverment has grown out of control. With property tax everytime the taxes go up you really notice.

fatlazyless · 11-10-2006, 07:53 PM

Even though he lost in the recent election, Jim Coburn had some interesting comments. He said that a big problem in New Hampshire is that the value of people's homes is increasing faster than people's earnings and they are having a hard time paying their increased property taxes. I never heard a peep about this from Governor Lynch. Jim Coburn said we should take a good look at casino gambling as a new source of tax revenue. What the heck, take a trip to any convenience store you'll find people lining up to buy all sorts of different lottery instant and daily and weekly games. Why even the highly regarded Sen Judd Gregg hit a Washington lottery in Oct 2005 with a quik-pik and won over 800k. With the present NH tax system, the state tax man scored a big zero from Judd Gregg's big 800k win so maybe we need to take another look at casino gambling or something?

Right out in front of the Centre Harbor state liquor store, under the covered front porch area, would be a nice spot for a roulette wheel. For some fast fun, I could get a quik buzz from one of those little 99 cent vodka nips they sell, and then step outside and put my left-over penny down on red #3, and watch that big wheel spin & spin! Hey, isn't that what good government is all about: a fair tax system that gives me a way to have a little fun.

Merrymeeting · 11-10-2006, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrc

NH's tax structure is not very friendly to people with wealth. It is more friendly to people with income. It's actually a very progressive model.
...
A big down side of this model is that retired people with assets are better off picking a state without high property taxes and without taxes on interest and dividends.

jrc,

You make a lot of very good points. But to me the biggest downside is the the same people who benefit from your points can't afford to stay in NH for the next generation. They can't afford it when they are retired, nor can their children or grandchildren. So the properties turn over and those that move in have different values than those who could have stayed.

Someone with a middle-class income who has worked hard to buy and build a homested, can easily find that 5 years after they retire on a fixed income, they are forced to sell. On paper, and therefore on tax bill, their home is now worth nice money. But what if they never wanted to move? Then it's just money on paper and taxes.

Wouldn't it be just as good if the taxes were paid by those who still have the income to afford it?

Pineedles · 11-10-2006, 09:23 PM

[QUOTE=Merrymeeting]jrc,

But to me the biggest downside is the the same people who benefit from your points can't afford to stay in NH for the next generation. They can't afford it when they are retired, nor can their children or grandchildren. So the properties turn over and those that move in have different values than those who could have stayed.

That is so true Mm. I am lucky, as our assessment is split over several family members and thereby affordable. It works out to be about $1,000 per week for the 2 weeks I am able to be on the lake per year. If I had to absorb the entire cost of taxes, our 115 years place on the lake would have a new owner.

Also, to those that took me seriously about instituting MA type taxes in NH... it was said tongue in cheek.

jrc · 11-11-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

....

Wouldn't it be just as good if the taxes were paid by those who still have the income to afford it?

I think history has proven that the direct visible tax system in NH is an effective way of maintaining a low overall tax burden. NH consistently comes in near the best, whenever overall state tax burdens are compared. A tax based on income, will have to be paid to the state and then the state will send it to the towns. This takes controls away from you and your neighbors and sends it to bureaucrats in the capitol. Look how well this works at the federal level or in Mass.

The has to be a way to fix the problems in the current system by fine tuning instead of jumping to a system that is already a proven failure. Look at the changes made a few years back to allow a "Current Use" tax. Maybe something like that could be adopted, especially for retirees.

Airwaves · 11-11-2006, 02:39 PM

R2B wrote:

Quote:

As a no vote, big tax payer, I have often though of hosting an event on the Mount Washington.....a modern day "T" party. My assessment is 30% over real value and the assessment is supposed to be 92% of value. No way!

In this environmental friendly event, everyone would wear a "T" shirt with an original anti-tax slogan writen on it. The boat does not even need to leave the dock to keep cost down. After all, with the high taxes, we do not have much left to spend at local establishments!

You can use leaves! That's what they use to dump into Boston Harbor from The Beaver when they recreate the Boston Tea Party.

ITD · 11-11-2006, 05:55 PM

Anybody who thinks that imposing new taxes will lower or decrease the rate of increase of property taxes is wrong. Government will find new ways to spend new found revenues and will be loathe to give up any legacy taxes. There are many cases to support this starting with Taxachusetts and the "temporary" income tax increase implemented years ago and still not rolled back, even after a referendum passed to roll it back. Pay the property tax, continue whining, but search for a more effect place to whine to. Do not be foolish and ASK for more taxes in different form. It won't help.

Weirs guy · 11-11-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

You can use leaves! That's what they use to dump into Boston Harbor from The Beaver when they recreate the Boston Tea Party.

No need to bring any from home, I'll just drag my collection over!

Orion · 11-11-2006, 11:20 PM

There is no reason that increases in property values should directly cause increases in taxes. The towns should adjust the rate (down) at each assessment to match the budget needed to run the town. There is no reason this should increase faster than the rate of inflation. Creeping spending is the problem.

Airwaves · 11-11-2006, 11:40 PM

ITD wrote:

Quote:

Anybody who thinks that imposing new taxes will lower or decrease the rate of increase of property taxes is wrong.

There are many cases to support this starting with Taxachusetts and the "temporary" income tax increase implemented years ago and still not rolled back, even after a referendum passed to roll it back.

True, voters in Massachusetts, I among them, voted a number of years ago to roll back the state income tax. What will happen if the income tax is rolled back by less than a percentage point is that the burden to make up the difference will be placed on cities and towns.

Who pays taxes in cities and towns? Why homeowners, not renters, homeowners! And most homeowners own their homes, they do not own rental property!

So, we elected a new governor who told us up front that he would not roll back the income tax because it would result in an increase in property tax.

Not rocket science, but finally a politician who "got it" and was at least honest about it!

Do I want my income tax rolled back and eliminated, yes! Do I want it at the expense of seeing my property tax go ballistic like in NH? No way!

ITD · 11-12-2006, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orion

There is no reason that increases in property values should directly cause increases in taxes. The towns should adjust the rate (down) at each assessment to match the budget needed to run the town. There is no reason this should increase faster than the rate of inflation. Creeping spending is the problem.

Many people don't understand this and our elected officials knowing this quickly blame the rising property values for tax increases. Spending and the feeling of entitlement is the problem.

Airwaves, any landlord who does not cover property taxes in rent is dopey, I'm sure a few exist and I'm sure there are a few examples of exceptions to that statement but not many. Which brings me to taxes on businesses. When a business is taxed, it passes said tax onto it's customers, if it can't do that, it goes out of business. A business needs to make a certain amount of profit otherwise it is better off putting its money in the bank.

The governor elect of Mass. proposed ideas that will result in a billion and a half increased spending, I hope he was lying and we'll see if he gets it. What he doesn't get is Massachusetts had a large SURPLUS last year that easily could have been used for the rollback, instead the legislature spent it, not on local aid, but on PORK.

You people who think giving politicians more money to spend via another tax is going to save you money are in la la land.......

BlackCatIslander · 11-12-2006, 12:07 PM

My tax bill in NH is about 2/3rds of one percent or less of the market value of our second home and for our MASS house it is about one percent. For that difference we get water, sewer, trash collection, etc.

I know of some homes in the NY/NJ area that pay R.E. taxes that are close to 2.5 percent of market value. This is antidotal and not based on any survey data. I am curious what some forum members from those states are paying for R.E. taxes divided by their approximate market value.

Given all the views expressed in this thread, I don't expect any changes in the current situation until the state needs more revenue.

boathousegirl · 11-12-2006, 01:40 PM

I live on Winnisquam and my real estate taxes are $20,000 a year. With only 1 1/3 acres and no trash pick up at my property from October to June and no snow plowing, I wonder what I'm paying for. My real estate taxes in Boston are $2,600 and I get many more services there. I can't vote here yet, but when I can I'll be sure to vote for fairness for all.

hockeypuck · 11-12-2006, 06:25 PM

BlackCatIslander, That is an interesting way to look at tax burden. Here in Connecticut my number comes out to 2.8% of value. Yes, we have all the services etc. but the same thing is happening here as around the lake. The older homes along the shore (Long Island Sound) that started out as summer homes and were passed down to future generations have been upgraded to year round, and are now in the million(s) dollar range. $28,000 on a million dollar home. This is fne if you are a millionaire, but many are not. The result is that many owners are real estate rich and cash poor. They are fortunate homeowners who inherited something nice, but can no longer afford to stay, so they sell for big bucks and move. The new owners ARE cash rich and it is changing the demographics of our town and creating a larger gap in the community between the haves and the have not's. In addition in CT we have a sales tax and an income tax and a high gas tax.. When the income tax came in, the sales and realestate taxes went down, but they are creeping up again. I can see the same senerio around the lake. Don't know what the answer is.

BlackCatIslander · 11-12-2006, 07:40 PM

Boathousegirl and Hockeypuck, if there are many folks like you out there perhaps we will see a groundswell of sentiment for something like Proposition 2 1/2 that has worked reasonably well in MA.

ITD · 11-13-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypuck

......... The older homes along the shore (Long Island Sound) that started out as summer homes and were passed down to future generations have been upgraded to year round, and are now in the million(s) dollar range. $28,000 on a million dollar home. This is fne if you are a millionaire, but many are not. The result is that many owners are real estate rich and cash poor. They are fortunate homeowners who inherited something nice, but can no longer afford to stay, so they sell for big bucks and move. .............

Hockey Puck,

I agree with almost everything you say, except what's in red. These people ARE millionaires and should pay the tax accordingly. The problem they have is that their money is stranded in a house, there are ways to rectify that. With many of these houses, the tax is only a portion of the total cost of ownership, heat, utilities, upkeep, maintenance all add up. Inheritance is great but sometimes cash is better than property.

ghfromaltonbay · 11-13-2006, 12:30 PM

In answer to Black Cat Islander,

Here in northern NJ I live in a town which has a relatively low tax rate compared with the next county (their burden is the city of Newark) and the ratio of my taxes to the market value of the house is 1.75%. The taxes do include sewer (that is changing to a direct fee) and twice a week garbage collection. My property taxes are about $6000/year on a 46x100 foot lot and a 1500 sq. ft. cape cod with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. When I moved in 16 years ago the taxes were $2300.

Don't be fooled into believing that a sales tax or an income will provide property tax relief. Our sales tax went to 7% this year and we have a state income tax as well. The joke on us was the promise of great tax relief with the casinos in Atlantic City starting in the late 1970's. All we're doing is paying for corruption and out of control spending. Just to show, our brilliant voters just re-elected a senator who is under FBI investigation for corruption. Moving to NH full time looks better and better, I just hope the new regime in NH doesn't get tax happy like the pols here in NJ.

MJM · 11-13-2006, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airwaves

ITD wrote:
... What will happen if the income tax is rolled back by less than a percentage point is that the burden to make up the difference will be placed on cities and towns.... no way!

This is exactly the type of thinking that MA politicians are guilty of, and thus the escalating overall tax burden.

The sentence should read: "...What will happen if the income tax is rolled back by less than a percentage point is that the state/cities/towns will need to act fiscally responsibly and cut their spending..."

jrc · 11-13-2006, 05:54 PM

They can't cut spending, "it will hurt the children". The universal retort to any fiscal responsibilty.

Little Bear · 11-14-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghfromaltonbay

Moving to NH full time looks better and better, I just hope the new regime in NH doesn't get tax happy like the pols here in NJ.

Don't bet on it...The Dems are smacking their chops and our pockets are ripe for the pickin'.

onthebay · 11-15-2006, 10:51 AM

We are building along the tracks on Paugus Bay and are trying to guestimate what our tax liability will be when finished. Someone mentioned to us that there is a tax credit because we are situated alongside an active railway, even if it is the scenic train from the Weirs.
Does anyone else have any similar experience. I know there are a number of houses along the bay and up in Merideth with a similar situation.Thanks

bigdog · 11-19-2006, 09:55 PM

Does anyone know if you can look-up property tax assesments online, for Belknap County properties? This is all public information, and I suspect there must be county or town websites where this information can be viewed.

I have the website for the Belknap Registry of Deeds (http://www.belknapcounty.org/index.html), but tax information is not contained on this site.

Any information you can provide will be appreciated !

onthebay · 11-20-2006, 12:07 AM

You can go to http://www.visionappraisal.com/ to get the tax valuations.

bigdog · 11-20-2006, 10:34 PM

"Onthebay", gave me the weblink "http://www.visionappraisal.com",
where you can check tax assessments for many N.H. towns. Gilford however, is not on the list. Does anyone know a website where I can check tax assessments on Gilford properties ?

Mink Islander · 11-21-2006, 06:50 AM

You can search by Map/Lot, Address, or Name from this website.

http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...cument%20Index

If you want to know the actual taxes you have to calculate them by multiplying the assessed value by the 2006 mil rate of $15.83 per $1,000 of appraised value.

Weekend Pundit · 11-25-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypuck

BlackCatIslander, That is an interesting way to look at tax burden. Here in Connecticut my number comes out to 2.8% of value. Yes, we have all the services etc. but the same thing is happening here as around the lake. The older homes along the shore (Long Island Sound) that started out as summer homes and were passed down to future generations have been upgraded to year round, and are now in the million(s) dollar range. $28,000 on a million dollar home. This is fne if you are a millionaire, but many are not. The result is that many owners are real estate rich and cash poor. They are fortunate homeowners who inherited something nice, but can no longer afford to stay, so they sell for big bucks and move. The new owners ARE cash rich and it is changing the demographics of our town and creating a larger gap in the community between the haves and the have not's. In addition in CT we have a sales tax and an income tax and a high gas tax.. When the income tax came in, the sales and realestate taxes went down, but they are creeping up again. I can see the same senerio around the lake. Don't know what the answer is.

When my parents retired, they lived in our family's summer cottege in Madison, CT, a place that had been converted to year round occupancy back in the mid 1960's. With all of the changes that took place in that town and the demographic shift - more PYS (Pretentious Yuppie Scumbags)from New York moving in - they could no longer afford to live there as their tax burden increased fourfold over a period of three years. They were forced into selling our summer cottage, a place that had been in our family for over 60 years, a place my grandfather built. As you stated, "real estate rich, cash poor."

They now live up here in Gilford, having paid for their new place with the cash they realized from the sale. They miss the old place, as do we all.

My fear is that we might see a repeat of that happening here, sometime in the future.

Weekend Pundit · 11-25-2006, 01:49 PM

I saw our valuation jump just over 19% in a single year. It also increased our tax bill by 10% as compared to last year.

My biggest gripe is that our valuation is seriously out of whack. We bought our home in April 2005 for close to the 2005 assessed value (within $7K). When I saw our 2006 valuation my first thought was "Were these guys on crack?!"

A home of similar value to ours just up the street just sold for ~$90,000 under its 2006 assessed value. That's a red flag to me.

BlackCatIslander · 11-30-2006, 02:42 PM

I wonder if anyone has looked at the waterfront properties in each, or any, of the lake towns to determine what percentage of the tax base comes from the waterfront properties?

11-09-2006, 07:09 PM	#1
BlackCatIslander Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201 Thanks: 52 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Tax Bills around the lake We just received our second and final tax bill from the Town of Moultonborough. Although our bill went up over 14 percent this year, the total increase over the last three years has been slightly less than 7 percent. This was due to a substantial decrease in 2005. Over the same three years, we have seen our tax valuation increase 94 percent. My impression is that valuations are at or slightly above market values. I am not complaining but I wonder what will happen next year with flat or declining home sales and values. Over the same three year period our home in Mass. has seen a total tax increase of slightly more than 8 percent. I wonder what others are experiencing in the other communities around the lake.

11-09-2006, 09:12 PM	#5
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	Buy me out; just kidding Wow, what a wonderful program that would be. Buy me out at the assesed value, whenever I decide I want to bail out. Don't get me wrong, because I too am a out of state owner and don't enjoy taxation without representation but that's not a solution. But I, and all other non-resident owners I'm sure appreciate the attempt at a solution.

11-09-2006, 09:13 PM	#6
Airwaves Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 1,153 Thanks: 9 Thanked 102 Times in 37 Posts	Tax free NH??? Actually my assessment in Gilford went up by $50K, but my actual tax liability went down. I know this is a forbidden topic in NH, but unless and until there is an income tax or a sales tax that spreads the tax liability for the state and municipalities among ALL NH residents, then property owners will continue to bear all of the tax the burden! It's not rocket science.

11-09-2006, 09:20 PM	#7
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	Save NH! Tax residents I too wanted to maintain one place that was free of least some form of taxation that I lived in, but........... the time is now for NH to grow up and realize that all its needs cannot be met with taxing only tourists. There has been a complete reversal of party representation in this state so let the revolution begin! Dems, impose an income tax on NH residents and you can be the heroes that saved the state of NH!! Yee HAA!

11-10-2006, 12:29 AM	#8
Resident 2B Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: North Shore, MA Posts: 1,358 Thanks: 996 Thanked 314 Times in 164 Posts	Time for a "T" party? As a no vote, big tax payer, I have often though of hosting an event on the Mount Washington.....a modern day "T" party. My assessment is 30% over real value and the assessment is supposed to be 92% of value. No way! In this environmental friendly event, everyone would wear a "T" shirt with an original anti-tax slogan writen on it. The boat does not even need to leave the dock to keep cost down. After all, with the high taxes, we do not have much left to spend at local establishments! Any thoughts? Best regards, R2B

11-09-2006, 08:00 PM	#2
Paugus Bay Resident Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Gilmanton, NH Posts: 754 Thanks: 136 Thanked 93 Times in 51 Posts	In Gilford, my valuation went up a little over 7% (one year; 2005 to 2006).

11-09-2006, 08:26 PM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,793 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,024 Times in 745 Posts	..prop taxes! In Meredith, my quarter acre lot and 55 year old mongrel cabin had its assessed value increase by 99.75%, as the town and Vision Appraisal Co revalued it from 401k to 801k in one year from June 2005 to June 2006. Can anyone beat that? Lucky me!

11-09-2006, 08:35 PM	#4
Silver Duck Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Billerica, MA Posts: 364 Thanks: 40 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Here's a novel thought - how about a law requiring the town to buy a property at its assessed value at the homeowner's request? Seems to me that such a law would keep assessments at fair market value! Silver Duck

11-10-2006, 10:31 AM	#13
BlackCatIslander Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201 Thanks: 52 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Not Complaining When I started this thread, I said that I was not complaining about the taxes. And, I pointed out that my Mass. taxes had gone up slightly more over a 3 year period. I do think that Waterbaby has some good suggestions although I don't see non resident taxpayers having much say in town affairs. I guess that the tax bill is the price we willingly pay to enjoy access to this wonderful area.

11-10-2006, 12:00 PM	#14
MJM Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 262 Thanks: 0 Thanked 23 Times in 11 Posts	And what about those that live in NH (so pay the high property taxes) and work in MA (so pay the high income tax)? Double-whammy! And although I am not a non-resident property owner, I totally agree it is wrong that folk who are don't get a vote in the town. Taxation Without Representation

11-10-2006, 01:11 PM	#15
JPC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Milford, NH Posts: 163 Thanks: 45 Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts	Unfair Tax burden My assesment in Milford went up quite a bit but the overall tax burden went down due to revaluation in town. Most od the decrease was due to Veterans deduction going up. However, has anyone though about why so many retired folks leave the state? Yeah I know they hate snow but also their income goes down but property tax keeps going up. This affect mostly the low/middle income retired people. Why do so many third generation owners of vacation property have to sell because of ever excallating property taxes (yes, due to escallating vlaues)? I through that in because I'm sure some self serving individual will say "sell, make a profit, and let someone else pay the tax. The high value means diddly squat until you are ready to sell and then you still pay a Capital gains tax. I don't expect this to go anywhere because there is so much distrust with politicians stealing our money even though "We the People" elected them.

11-10-2006, 02:52 PM	#16
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	NH's tax structure is not very friendly to people with wealth. It is more friendly to people with income. It's actually a very progressive model. People with expensive or several homes, people with a lot of money in the bank, people with a lot of stocks and bonds, people who smoke and people who eat in restaurants, all pay more taxes than the average person. People who use all their income to buy food at grocery store and pay their rent, pay less than than average. Sure there are taxes buried in their staples but all of their payments are indirect. A big down side of this model is that retired people with assets are better off picking a state without high property taxes and without taxes on interest and dividends. An up side of this model over income tax is visibilty, income tax comes out before you see it. If it goes up a little every year you don't notice, and before long the goverment has grown out of control. With property tax everytime the taxes go up you really notice.

11-10-2006, 07:53 PM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,793 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 301 Thanked 1,024 Times in 745 Posts	...Jim Coburn on the property tax. Even though he lost in the recent election, Jim Coburn had some interesting comments. He said that a big problem in New Hampshire is that the value of people's homes is increasing faster than people's earnings and they are having a hard time paying their increased property taxes. I never heard a peep about this from Governor Lynch. Jim Coburn said we should take a good look at casino gambling as a new source of tax revenue. What the heck, take a trip to any convenience store you'll find people lining up to buy all sorts of different lottery instant and daily and weekly games. Why even the highly regarded Sen Judd Gregg hit a Washington lottery in Oct 2005 with a quik-pik and won over 800k. With the present NH tax system, the state tax man scored a big zero from Judd Gregg's big 800k win so maybe we need to take another look at casino gambling or something? Right out in front of the Centre Harbor state liquor store, under the covered front porch area, would be a nice spot for a roulette wheel. For some fast fun, I could get a quik buzz from one of those little 99 cent vodka nips they sell, and then step outside and put my left-over penny down on red #3, and watch that big wheel spin & spin! Hey, isn't that what good government is all about: a fair tax system that gives me a way to have a little fun. Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-10-2006 at 08:05 PM. Reason: grammar check

11-10-2006, 09:23 PM	#19
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	Sell the farm MA the cow's gone dry [QUOTE=Merrymeeting]jrc, But to me the biggest downside is the the same people who benefit from your points can't afford to stay in NH for the next generation. They can't afford it when they are retired, nor can their children or grandchildren. So the properties turn over and those that move in have different values than those who could have stayed. That is so true Mm. I am lucky, as our assessment is split over several family members and thereby affordable. It works out to be about $1,000 per week for the 2 weeks I am able to be on the lake per year. If I had to absorb the entire cost of taxes, our 115 years place on the lake would have a new owner. Also, to those that took me seriously about instituting MA type taxes in NH... it was said tongue in cheek.

11-11-2006, 05:55 PM	#22
ITD Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonboro, NH Posts: 2,936 Thanks: 478 Thanked 695 Times in 390 Posts	Anybody who thinks that imposing new taxes will lower or decrease the rate of increase of property taxes is wrong. Government will find new ways to spend new found revenues and will be loathe to give up any legacy taxes. There are many cases to support this starting with Taxachusetts and the "temporary" income tax increase implemented years ago and still not rolled back, even after a referendum passed to roll it back. Pay the property tax, continue whining, but search for a more effect place to whine to. Do not be foolish and ASK for more taxes in different form. It won't help.

11-11-2006, 11:20 PM	#24
Orion Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: MA Posts: 914 Thanks: 602 Thanked 193 Times in 91 Posts	out of control spending is the problem There is no reason that increases in property values should directly cause increases in taxes. The towns should adjust the rate (down) at each assessment to match the budget needed to run the town. There is no reason this should increase faster than the rate of inflation. Creeping spending is the problem.

11-12-2006, 12:07 PM	#27
BlackCatIslander Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201 Thanks: 52 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Random Thoughts My tax bill in NH is about 2/3rds of one percent or less of the market value of our second home and for our MASS house it is about one percent. For that difference we get water, sewer, trash collection, etc. I know of some homes in the NY/NJ area that pay R.E. taxes that are close to 2.5 percent of market value. This is antidotal and not based on any survey data. I am curious what some forum members from those states are paying for R.E. taxes divided by their approximate market value. Given all the views expressed in this thread, I don't expect any changes in the current situation until the state needs more revenue.

11-12-2006, 01:40 PM	#28
boathousegirl Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston and Winnisquam Posts: 44 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I live on Winnisquam and my real estate taxes are $20,000 a year. With only 1 1/3 acres and no trash pick up at my property from October to June and no snow plowing, I wonder what I'm paying for. My real estate taxes in Boston are $2,600 and I get many more services there. I can't vote here yet, but when I can I'll be sure to vote for fairness for all.

11-12-2006, 06:25 PM	#29
hockeypuck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Southern CT Posts: 169 Thanks: 19 Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts	Taxes BlackCatIslander, That is an interesting way to look at tax burden. Here in Connecticut my number comes out to 2.8% of value. Yes, we have all the services etc. but the same thing is happening here as around the lake. The older homes along the shore (Long Island Sound) that started out as summer homes and were passed down to future generations have been upgraded to year round, and are now in the million(s) dollar range. $28,000 on a million dollar home. This is fne if you are a millionaire, but many are not. The result is that many owners are real estate rich and cash poor. They are fortunate homeowners who inherited something nice, but can no longer afford to stay, so they sell for big bucks and move. The new owners ARE cash rich and it is changing the demographics of our town and creating a larger gap in the community between the haves and the have not's. In addition in CT we have a sales tax and an income tax and a high gas tax.. When the income tax came in, the sales and realestate taxes went down, but they are creeping up again. I can see the same senerio around the lake. Don't know what the answer is.

11-12-2006, 07:40 PM	#30
BlackCatIslander Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201 Thanks: 52 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	A tax cap ?? Boathousegirl and Hockeypuck, if there are many folks like you out there perhaps we will see a groundswell of sentiment for something like Proposition 2 1/2 that has worked reasonably well in MA.

11-13-2006, 12:30 PM	#32
ghfromaltonbay Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Clifton, NJ, Alton Bay Posts: 831 Thanks: 255 Thanked 225 Times in 131 Posts	NJ Tax burden In answer to Black Cat Islander, Here in northern NJ I live in a town which has a relatively low tax rate compared with the next county (their burden is the city of Newark) and the ratio of my taxes to the market value of the house is 1.75%. The taxes do include sewer (that is changing to a direct fee) and twice a week garbage collection. My property taxes are about $6000/year on a 46x100 foot lot and a 1500 sq. ft. cape cod with 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. When I moved in 16 years ago the taxes were $2300. Don't be fooled into believing that a sales tax or an income will provide property tax relief. Our sales tax went to 7% this year and we have a state income tax as well. The joke on us was the promise of great tax relief with the casinos in Atlantic City starting in the late 1970's. All we're doing is paying for corruption and out of control spending. Just to show, our brilliant voters just re-elected a senator who is under FBI investigation for corruption. Moving to NH full time looks better and better, I just hope the new regime in NH doesn't get tax happy like the pols here in NJ.

11-13-2006, 05:54 PM	#34
jrc Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NH Posts: 2,689 Thanks: 33 Thanked 439 Times in 249 Posts	They can't cut spending, "it will hurt the children". The universal retort to any fiscal responsibilty.

11-15-2006, 10:51 AM	#36
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Tax Break for being on the wrong side of the tracks We are building along the tracks on Paugus Bay and are trying to guestimate what our tax liability will be when finished. Someone mentioned to us that there is a tax credit because we are situated alongside an active railway, even if it is the scenic train from the Weirs. Does anyone else have any similar experience. I know there are a number of houses along the bay and up in Merideth with a similar situation.Thanks

11-19-2006, 09:55 PM	#37
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 346 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Tax Bills around the Lake Does anyone know if you can look-up property tax assesments online, for Belknap County properties? This is all public information, and I suspect there must be county or town websites where this information can be viewed. I have the website for the Belknap Registry of Deeds (http://www.belknapcounty.org/index.html), but tax information is not contained on this site. Any information you can provide will be appreciated !

11-20-2006, 12:07 AM	#38
onthebay Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 114 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Vission Appraisal You can go to http://www.visionappraisal.com/ to get the tax valuations.

11-20-2006, 10:34 PM	#39
bigdog Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Central MA-Gilford Posts: 1,451 Thanks: 346 Thanked 123 Times in 97 Posts	Tax Assessment Around the Lake "Onthebay", gave me the weblink "http://www.visionappraisal.com", where you can check tax assessments for many N.H. towns. Gilford however, is not on the list. Does anyone know a website where I can check tax assessments on Gilford properties ?

11-21-2006, 06:50 AM	#40
Mink Islander Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 753 Thanks: 59 Thanked 271 Times in 129 Posts	Gilford Assessment Information You can search by Map/Lot, Address, or Name from this website. http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...cument%20Index If you want to know the actual taxes you have to calculate them by multiplying the assessed value by the 2006 mil rate of $15.83 per $1,000 of appraised value.

11-25-2006, 01:49 PM	#42
Weekend Pundit Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 347 Thanks: 26 Thanked 69 Times in 42 Posts	Property Valuation - Gilford I saw our valuation jump just over 19% in a single year. It also increased our tax bill by 10% as compared to last year. My biggest gripe is that our valuation is seriously out of whack. We bought our home in April 2005 for close to the 2005 assessed value (within $7K). When I saw our 2006 valuation my first thought was "Were these guys on crack?!" A home of similar value to ours just up the street just sold for ~$90,000 under its 2006 assessed value. That's a red flag to me. Last edited by Weekend Pundit; 11-27-2006 at 06:16 PM.

11-30-2006, 02:42 PM	#43
BlackCatIslander Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 201 Thanks: 52 Thanked 17 Times in 11 Posts	Curious about the tax base of waterfront properties I wonder if anyone has looked at the waterfront properties in each, or any, of the lake towns to determine what percentage of the tax base comes from the waterfront properties?