Question for speed limit supporters

[Dave R]

Why do you care how fast someone is going when they are 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore? I'm just curious. I apologize if it's already been asked and answered.

[Rusty]

Why? Because there is a law that states how fast anyone can go on Lake Winnipesaukee.
That’s the reason I care and you should too.


270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –
Paragraph X. (b) (1) (2) As shown below:

(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

[topwater]

I don't !!! Rusty, how big a boat do you have, if you even have one? Thanks. Just curious.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Why? Because there is a law that states how fast anyone can go on Lake Winnipesaukee.
That’s the reason I care and you should too.


270-D:2 General Rules for Vessels Operating on Water. –
Paragraph X. (b) (1) (2) As shown below:

(b) Where no hazard exists that requires lower speed for compliance with subparagraph (a), the speed of any vessel in excess of the limit specified in this subparagraph shall be prima facie evidence that the speed is not reasonable or prudent and that it is unlawful:
(1) 30 miles per hour during the period from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise; and
(2) 45 miles per hour at any other time.

Thanks for pointing the law out. I had no idea

I'll re-phrase it for you: Prior to the existence of the current speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, why did you care how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Thanks for pointing the law out. I had no idea

I'll re-phrase it for you: Prior to the existence of the current speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, why did you care how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore?

These were my reasons for supporting a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee:
--To restore safe family boating.
--To provide an easy-to-understand method of controlling boat traffic (we all drive cars on
roads with speed limits), in order to prevent collisions and accidents and to create a safer,
less frightening and more enjoyable lake for everyone.
--To protect and preserve the beautiful natural resource that this New Hampshire’s crown
jewel is: the Lake’s waters, shorelines, loons and other precious wildlife.
--To ensure a healthy economy around the Lake’s Region by creating a safe and pleasurable
family experience around and on the Lake, thereby continuing to attract the many who visit,
play and work in the area and their accompanying purchasing power for the Lake
communities’ goods and services.
Problems Addressed by this Bill—Lake Winnipesaukee and Safety
--High speed boaters are infringing on our rights to use and enjoy the Lake.
-- Due to these high speed boaters, the Lake is often dangerous to navigate, totally
unenjoyable, and downright terrifying to leisure boaters, sailors, canoers, kayakers, rowers,
fishermen and waterskiers.
--Reaction time is significantly shorter when boating defensively vis-à-vis these high speed
boats, yielding low margins for error and very stressful lake outings.
--Lake Winnipesaukee is “an accident waiting to happen—again.” The Littlefield collision
in Meredith causing a fatality is an example of what can and is happening. Do we want to
wait for another tragedy to stop this peril on the Lake?
--It is a well-established fact that “Speed Kills.” The U.S. Coast Guard cites that excessive
speed is 4th in the causes of accidents on U.S. lakes and rivers.
--Causes #1: operator inattention, #2: careless/reckless operation, #3 operator inexperience,
#5: no proper lookout, and #6: alcohol use--all could be argued that speed may have been a
contributing factor.
--Boats have no brakes. The faster one goes the harder it is to stop.
--Because the Lake has no speed limits, many family boaters have experienced “close
calls,” in the congested, high speed, free-for-all lake mayhem—close calls that easily could
have resulted in tragedy.
--Tragedies on Lake Winnipesaukee have historically been categorized as “reckless
operation,” when in fact excessive speed was the actual cause.
--The existing laws on Winnipesaukee, although extensive, are ineffective.
--Boaters ignore or do not understand right-of-way(stand-on, give-way), headway speed
within 150 feet of another boat and other boating regulations.
--Speed limits are easily understood and for the most part obeyed on the road.
--The safety of the fragile loons and other wildlife who swim the waters (some to and from
the islands) is severely compromised as high speed boaters are unable to see these birds,
deer, moose, muskrat, mink and others until it is too late.
--High speed boats with their huge horsepower engines are incredibly loud, especially with
above water exhausts—many people are as upset over the noise pollution as they are about
the excessive speeds.

-- Excessive speed is a problem that is growing and will not go away unless we do something about it.

[BroadHopper]

With only 45 marine patrol officers patrolling over 900 bodies of water. Who's going to enforce the law? State police? Fish and game? Homeland Security?

[NHBUOY]

...excessive drinking and MORONS that don't know or CARE about the rules in place are the REAL cause of the problems I see on a regular basis...I am waiting for the "big-one"...a "slow speed" jet ski rental takes out 12 people in a rental pontoon boat...all DRUNK & with 14-day license's...

[topwater]

Rusty, I'm sorry I didn't catch what type and size of a boat you have. Thanks

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Rusty

These were my reasons for supporting a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee:
--To restore safe family boating.
--To provide an easy-to-understand method of controlling boat traffic (we all drive cars on
roads with speed limits), in order to prevent collisions and accidents and to create a safer,
less frightening and more enjoyable lake for everyone.
--To protect and preserve the beautiful natural resource that this New Hampshire’s crown
jewel is: the Lake’s waters, shorelines, loons and other precious wildlife.
--To ensure a healthy economy around the Lake’s Region by creating a safe and pleasurable
family experience around and on the Lake, thereby continuing to attract the many who visit,
play and work in the area and their accompanying purchasing power for the Lake
communities’ goods and services.
Problems Addressed by this Bill—Lake Winnipesaukee and Safety
--High speed boaters are infringing on our rights to use and enjoy the Lake.
-- Due to these high speed boaters, the Lake is often dangerous to navigate, totally
unenjoyable, and downright terrifying to leisure boaters, sailors, canoers, kayakers, rowers,
fishermen and waterskiers.
--Reaction time is significantly shorter when boating defensively vis-à-vis these high speed
boats, yielding low margins for error and very stressful lake outings.
--Lake Winnipesaukee is “an accident waiting to happen—again.” The Littlefield collision
in Meredith causing a fatality is an example of what can and is happening. Do we want to
wait for another tragedy to stop this peril on the Lake?
--It is a well-established fact that “Speed Kills.” The U.S. Coast Guard cites that excessive
speed is 4th in the causes of accidents on U.S. lakes and rivers.
--Causes #1: operator inattention, #2: careless/reckless operation, #3 operator inexperience,
#5: no proper lookout, and #6: alcohol use--all could be argued that speed may have been a
contributing factor.
--Boats have no brakes. The faster one goes the harder it is to stop.
--Because the Lake has no speed limits, many family boaters have experienced “close
calls,” in the congested, high speed, free-for-all lake mayhem—close calls that easily could
have resulted in tragedy.
--Tragedies on Lake Winnipesaukee have historically been categorized as “reckless
operation,” when in fact excessive speed was the actual cause.
--The existing laws on Winnipesaukee, although extensive, are ineffective.
--Boaters ignore or do not understand right-of-way(stand-on, give-way), headway speed
within 150 feet of another boat and other boating regulations.
--Speed limits are easily understood and for the most part obeyed on the road.
--The safety of the fragile loons and other wildlife who swim the waters (some to and from
the islands) is severely compromised as high speed boaters are unable to see these birds,
deer, moose, muskrat, mink and others until it is too late.
--High speed boats with their huge horsepower engines are incredibly loud, especially with
above water exhausts—many people are as upset over the noise pollution as they are about
the excessive speeds.

-- Excessive speed is a problem that is growing and will not go away unless we do something about it.

I was already familiar with that rhetoric, I was just wondering why you cared how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore.

[W Clarke]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I was already familiar with that rhetoric, I was just wondering why you cared how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore.

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Hi Warren,
Can you please state the facts about how many times on Lake Winnipesaukee a boat that was travelling greater than 45 MPH has struck another boat, canoe, kayak or swimmer? You stated that "speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them". So, please give the facts on how many times speeders have not been able to avoid objects.

Thank you.

[W Clarke]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hi Warren,
Can you please state the facts about how many times on Lake Winnipesaukee a boat that was travelling greater than 45 MPH has struck another boat, canoe, kayak or swimmer? You stated that "speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them". So, please give the facts on how many times speeders have not been able to avoid objects.

Thank you.

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

I'm begging the question, name me specific near misses by speeding boats. I bet you these 'cowboys' are renters that rents from your sponsors.

[NHBUOY]

...Risk management/accident avoidance & exposure/loss reduction specialists...etal...are large departments at ALL insurance companies...these are the people you want to talk to about, real or imagined, "near misses"...ANY intelligent "camp director", wouldn't need the insurance company to TELL him that it is probably not a good idea to let the kids run amuck in boats they aren't too skilled at operating, on Lake Winnipesaukee, on weekends, and national holidays...due to sheer numbers (density), ratios of probability, & observational anomalies...when I was a kid and the lake was busy on weekends, we'd sit on the dock and watch the show...it ALWAYS thinned out sooner or later...believe me, insurance companies look at this stuff...have you bought a lift ticket lately.?..I rest my case...ask your camp director friend if his risk manager has looked at his operation...YET...a risk management analysis is almost mandatory these days...NHB...I vote common sense......

[BroadHopper]

I have to agree with NHBOUY. If my gfbl was very dangerous, I would be paying more than $110 a year on boat insurance. In fact my best friend has one of those family bowriders and he is paying $700 a year. I wonder why the insurance industry consider a bow rider more of a risk than my LS?

I avoid the weekends during prime season and enjoy the weekdays. Off season is the best for weekend boating. September is the best time of the year to boat. Seems like when the kids are back to school, the 'cowboys' are gone!

[Grandpa Redneck]

Last season, on a smaller lake with a Camp on it up here in the White Mountains, Myself Grandma Redneck and the the family were anchored in a small shallow cove. The kids, grandkids, and I were playing in the water, Grandma was off 50-75 feet away wading and drownin' worms. We heard a bunch of hollarin' and looked up and a fleet of canoes and kayaks were heading out from the camp, eventually they were followed by a councilor in a motor boat. They headed directly across the lake toward us. Some of these hooligans were "racing" and hitting each other with paddles, as they approached they were not paying any attention to where they were going, the lead 2 craft, a conoe with 3, and a double kayak almost broad sided us as they were too busy hitting each other and hollarin' to pay attention to what was right in front of them, the canoe managed to slip between our bow and the shore, without hitting us the, kayak scraped across the bow. without a word of appology. A second canoe paddled directly over Grandmas fishing line between her and her bobber, again no appology or even any greeting.
When they got out of their boats they started running around splashing in the water throwing balls, frisbees, rocks and sticks, almost hitting our 1 year old grand daughter in a floaty.
By then the " councilor" arrived and made no effort to reign in the out of control mob. We loaded up and asked the councilor to have the kids move out from behind the boat so we could leave. He spoke to them, some listened some didn't, and he turned and walked into the woods. We told the kids to please move out of the way, they finally did, after we asked 3 times. We left and went for a cruise around the lake and did some fishing.
Later we returned to the cove when it was empty again, there were large rocks all over the bottom, and branches, small trees, and other debris that had been on the shore line floating in the water. We cleaned up their mess.
When we spoke to the Camp management about the issue they said " Our campers would never do that".
The camp also has 2 ski boats, and tube, knee board the kids and some of the councilors wake board and ski. A second camp also has a ski boat.
and they quite often break the 150 foot rule.

Maybe we should ban camps with stupid councilors and disrespectful hooligan children.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

Hi Warner, sorry but that does not come close to answering my question. My question was-how many times was a boat unable to avoid a collision?

I certainly cannot disagree about 150' rule violations, there are plenty of infractions across all bodies of water in NH. I see it all the time. However, I see it happen with all kinds of boats at any speed. In fact just Sunday I witnessed a pontoon boat plowing along at about 15MPH about 50' from shore. Completely oblivious to the law.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hi Warner, sorry but that does not come close to answering my question. My question was-how many times was a boat unable to avoid a collision?

I certainly cannot disagree about 150' rule violations, there are plenty of infractions across all bodies of water in NH. I see it all the time. However, I see it happen with all kinds of boats at any speed. In fact just Sunday I witnessed a pontoon boat plowing along at about 15MPH about 50' from shore. Completely oblivious to the law.

I wonder if this is the same pontoon boat that was passing boats in the Weirs Channel no wake zone this weekend. I notice it was a rental and I am not going to disclose the renter and get batched by the SL supporters.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I wonder if this is the same pontoon boat that was passing boats in the Weirs Channel no wake zone this weekend. I notice it was a rental and I am not going to disclose the renter and get batched by the SL supporters.

Nope, not the same one, I was not on Winni this weekend.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Why don't you get the opinion of the Hartman or Littlefield family on this? Under 30mph killed someone in this case...

Why don't you get the opinion of the Blizzard or Beaudoin family on this? A boat traveling at slow speeds killed in this case as well.


I'd love to hear your answer to Chipj29's question....Or lack thereof

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Why don't you get the opinion of the Hartman or Littlefield family on this? Under 30mph killed someone in this case...

Why don't you get the opinion of the Blizzard or Beaudoin family on this? A boat traveling at slow speeds killed in this case as well.

I've already posted their opinions, my gf is best friend of Mrs. Hartmann and I am Stephanie's cousin. Both are fuming that they got dragged into the SL debate. BACK OFF!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I've already posted their opinions, my gf is best friend of Mrs. Hartmann and I am Stephanie's cousin. Both are fuming that they got dragged into the SL debate. BACK OFF!

My point was neither was speeding and that speed didn't kill...Chill out.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

I agree that some boats are too loud (but they don't necessarily have to be exceeding 45 to be too loud). I'm also reasonably certain there's laws against excessive noise. I would REALLY like those laws to be enforced on the water and on the street.

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

It's also safer to stay in your house than it is to go outside. Why do you go outside? Most of us are sick of this nanny state government and are fighting this issue (not "facts" as you refer to them) because of this very reason.

[Grandpa Redneck]

For everyone that seams to think the Gov needs to legislate every aspect of our lives. Maybe, Just maybe you should move to MASS, they really like to do that there.
Here in NH we prefer our FREEDOMS.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Speaking of Cowboys........ Welcome aboard new guy. Three posts and you come out of the chute with GUNS Blazing.

I wonder WHO....................... W Clarke REALLY is..? NB

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Since we can all but assume you are not Warren Clarke, I would love for you to walk up to me and my family while out on the lake and call me a "cowboy", "drug abuser", "drunkard", or one of the other many colorful names you and your ilk like to use so causually. Very easy for you to hide behind that keyboard but you don't even have a single synapse in your spinal cord that would let you do it too our faces. You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me.

The facts are that you have more probability of getting injured in YOUR OWN HOME than while out on a boat. Why fight the facts?

Go back into your little hole. Hopefully Don verifies the IP as I smell a troll.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Since we can all but assume you are not Warren Clarke, I would love for you to walk up to me and my family while out on the lake and call me a "cowboy", "drug abuser", "drunkard", or one of the other many colorful names you and your ilk like to use so causually. Very easy for you to hide behind that keyboard but you don't even have a single synapse in your spinal cord that would let you do it too our faces. You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me.

The facts are that you have more probability of getting injured in YOUR OWN HOME than while out on a boat. Why fight the facts?

Go back into your little hole. Hopefully Don verifies the IP as I smell a troll.

LS,

Why would you as an anonymous forum member get so upset with another anonymous forum member. Remember we don’t know who you are in real life and you don’t know who we are in real life.

According to what you say you are more educated than everyone on this forum combined. You are an engineer who travels extensively, run marathons, knows how to fix just about anything, have a son who is college age, and I’m sure you have a nice family and are well respected in your community.

Having said all that I just can’t figure out why you would get so upset with an anonymous forum member and want to punch his lights out (I'm assuming when you say "You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me" it means you would punch him out). In fact I can’t understand why someone who is so perfect as you say you are would want to spend so much time arguing with anonymous people who will say anything just to get you riled up.

You need to get involved with real people and let them know your real name if you want anyone to take you serious. Just posting here as an anonymous poster and asking someone to call you a name so you can show them how well you can fight makes you look like…….I’ll let you guess as to what that is.

[topwater]

Rusty, You haven't answered a very simply question. What type and size boat do you have? Thanks

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by topwater

Rusty, You haven't answered a very simply question. What type and size boat do you have? Thanks

Ok, OK....One fairly good size sail boat with a small dinghy. Two Kayaks and two canoes.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

LS,

Why would you as an anonymous forum member get so upset with another anonymous forum member. Remember we don’t know who you are in real life and you don’t know who we are in real life.

According to what you say you are more educated than everyone on this forum combined. You are an engineer who travels extensively, run marathons, knows how to fix just about anything, have a son who is college age, and I’m sure you have a nice family and are well respected in your community.

Having said all that I just can’t figure out why you would get so upset with an anonymous forum member and want to punch his lights out (I'm assuming when you say "You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me" it means you would punch him out). In fact I can’t understand why someone who is so perfect as you say you are would want to spend so much time arguing with anonymous people who will say anything just to get you riled up.

You need to get involved with real people and let them know your real name if you want anyone to take you serious. Just posting here as an anonymous poster and asking someone to call you a name so you can show them how well you can fight makes you look like…….I’ll let you guess as to what that is.

Rusty, show me where I typed that I would punch someone? In fact, it would probably be my WIFE who would give you or any other pro-SL fanatic a verbal beat down should you verbally assualt us by calling us the various names you throw around here.

Anonymous? Look at the editorials where the "cowboy" moniker has been thrown around.

Some of you want to write checks with your mouth that you can't cash.

[topwater]

Rusty, How and what do you base your hardcore knowledge of fast speeds on? I think what we're seeing here is alot, and I mean alot of people with little knowledge of the subject and experience. But yet still keep it flowing because they like to be on a bandwagon. We all know its not speed, it's the idiots that come up here and don't know what they are doing. Some people make alot of money off those people, so heaven forbid we call a spade a spade.

[NoBozo]

SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster. But maybe RUSTY is W CLARKE ...OR... W Clark is Rusty...or maybe even Skip..OR.....The Webmaster.

It gets really confusing, what with so many people getting away with having multiple screenames...and multiple characters.....

Every week, some NEW "member" comes out of the woodwork with guns blazing like some stinkin cowboy and expects us to believe they just veered onto the scene....... BUT already has an opinion on the subject like they have been here for years.

OK: I'm dead. NB

[Skip]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

...SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster...

My wife will definitely be glad to hear that!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster. But maybe RUSTY is W CLARKE ...OR... W Clark is Rusty...or maybe even Skip..OR.....The Webmaster.

It gets really confusing, what with so many people getting away with having multiple screenames...and multiple characters.....

Every week, some NEW "member" comes out of the woodwork with guns blazing like some stinkin cowboy and expects us to believe they just veered onto the scene....... BUT already has an opinion on the subject like they have been here for years.

OK: I'm dead. NB

And I'm here as well. I own no guns, no motorcycles, have never threatened anyone, and yet, I was a huge target for the SL proponents. I know why that is.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Dave R

... Prior to the existence of the current speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee, why did you care how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore?

I cared when I was visiting my son's summer camp on Winni and I asked the director why none of his boats were out on the lake on such a beautiful day.
He explained that there were some days, mostly weekends, when the cowboy atmosphere on the lake was so bad, that he could not justify sending out children in sail boats, kayaks and canoes. He also could not allow water skiing on those days.

He didn't think a speed limit would completely solve the problem. But he did think it might reduce the weekend madness of the lake in the future.

Looks like he was right.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I cared when I was visiting my son's summer camp on Winni and I asked the director why none of his boats were out on the lake on such a beautiful day.
He explained that there were some days, mostly weekends, when the cowboy atmosphere on the lake was so bad, that he could not justify sending out children in sail boats, kayaks and canoes. He also could not allow water skiing on those days.

He didn't think a speed limit would completely solve the problem. But he did think it might reduce the weekend madness of the lake in the future.

Looks like he was right.

Being that I have a direct view head on at Camp Lawrence and am in the thick of it, the Camp director has it somewhat correct. There is plenty of madness, but it isn't a few fast boats and speed that is causing it. It is overall traffic, uneducated boaters, rental boats, lack of courtesy, and disobeyance of the existing laws that makes it a mad house in the area.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I cared when I was visiting my son's summer camp on Winni and I asked the director why none of his boats were out on the lake on such a beautiful day.
He explained that there were some days, mostly weekends, when the cowboy atmosphere on the lake was so bad, that he could not justify sending out children in sail boats, kayaks and canoes. He also could not allow water skiing on those days.

He didn't think a speed limit would completely solve the problem. But he did think it might reduce the weekend madness of the lake in the future.

Looks like he was right.

The "cowboy atmosphere" seems to be a common complaint. I firmly believe that the real problem was simply crowds that spawned large numbers of safe passage violations due to impatience and poor operation.

I think we can all agree that there's a lot fewer boats on the lake than there were 5 years ago. I think that is the number one reason why the lake may feel safer to some people.

I expect to see the crowds and "cowboy atmosphere" return once/if the economy improves. I would not be surprised if it's worse since the MP presence will likely be reduced and/or if the MP will again be tasked with silly work like patrolling no-wake zones, patrolling no-rafting zones, creating "safe passage situations" in "narrow" channels (I really hate it when they do that) and/or measuring speed.

If the economy recovers, the crowds will return and I think the speed limit will affect the cowboy atmosphere on Winnipesuakee the same way it does in MA (not at all).

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Dave R

The "cowboy atmosphere" seems to be a common complaint. I firmly believe that the real problem was simply crowds that spawned large numbers of safe passage violations due to impatience and poor operation.

I think we can all agree that there's a lot fewer boats on the lake than there were 5 years ago. I think that is the number one reason why the lake may feel safer to some people.

I expect to see the crowds and "cowboy atmosphere" return once/if the economy improves. I would not be surprised if it's worse since the MP presence will likely be reduced and/or if the MP will again be tasked with silly work like patrolling no-wake zones, patrolling no-rafting zones, creating "safe passage situations" in "narrow" channels (I really hate it when they do that) and/or measuring speed.

If the economy recovers, the crowds will return and I think the speed limit will affect the cowboy atmosphere on Winnipesuakee the same way it does in MA (not at all).

I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect.

I am a member of performance boat forums at other sites like OSO. In those forums you will find multiple declarations from performance boaters that the speed limit has caused them to go elsewhere and that they will never return to Winni while it has a speed limit.

I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits. To argue otherwise is absurd.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect.

I am a member of performance boat forums at other sites like OSO. In those forums you will find multiple declarations from performance boaters that the speed limit has caused them to go elsewhere and that they will never return to Winni while it has a speed limit.

I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits. To argue otherwise is absurd.

You really think the speed limit has affected boater numbers more than the economy? That seems really unlikely to me, especially considering the small percentage of boats that are performance boats.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Dave R

You really think the speed limit has affected boater numbers more than the economy? That seems really unlikely to me, especially considering the small percentage of boats that are performance boats.

I never said that. I never said anything remotely like that. I never implied that.

Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I never said that. I never said anything remotely like that. I never implied that.

Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

I wrote:

"The "cowboy atmosphere" seems to be a common complaint. I firmly believe that the real problem was simply crowds that spawned large numbers of safe passage violations due to impatience and poor operation.

I think we can all agree that there's a lot fewer boats on the lake than there were 5 years ago. I think that is the number one reason why the lake may feel safer to some people.

I expect to see the crowds and "cowboy atmosphere" return once/if the economy improves. I would not be surprised if it's worse since the MP presence will likely be reduced and/or if the MP will again be tasked with silly work like patrolling no-wake zones, patrolling no-rafting zones, creating "safe passage situations" in "narrow" channels (I really hate it when they do that) and/or measuring speed.

If the economy recovers, the crowds will return and I think the speed limit will affect the cowboy atmosphere on Winnipesuakee the same way it does in MA (not at all). "

You wrote in reply:

"I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect.

I am a member of performance boat forums at other sites like OSO. In those forums you will find multiple declarations from performance boaters that the speed limit has caused them to go elsewhere and that they will never return to Winni while it has a speed limit.

I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits. To argue otherwise is absurd. "

That's the conversation I was referring to. I have no idea why you think I put words in your mouth. What exactly did you disagree with in your reply?


If you truly think the speed limit will prevent a "cowboy atmosphere", I suggest that you spend a Summer weekend on the Connecticut River in MA sometime (especially if the economy recovers). They've had a 45 MPH speed limit for years and it's mayhem. It's also incredibly easy to patrol, being a narrow river and all. Like Winni, most of the boats there are going well under 45 MPH. Take a trip and see the speed limit in action.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I never said that. I never said anything remotely like that. I never implied that.

Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Seriously? That is almost verbatim what you said. See your text in bold:

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect.

I am a member of performance boat forums at other sites like OSO. In those forums you will find multiple declarations from performance boaters that the speed limit has caused them to go elsewhere and that they will never return to Winni while it has a speed limit.

I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits. To argue otherwise is absurd.

[classic22]

You have heard of the free staters moving to NH over the last several years,
but you probably have not heard of the "Nanny Staters" until now. They have also either moved into the state or have been lurking in the state for years.

Yes its true...the Nanny staters...have been successfull in pulling off this red herring, called a speed limit. There never was a problem with speed on the lake, but after convincing some naive legislators that the "children" or the "loons" can now use the lake after being terrorized for so many years, we ended up with the red herring known as a speed limit on our largest lake. Of course it took multiple attempts to get a law passed and then they got it by deception, but having a two year study enacted and then before it was complete having it made permanent. Yes the money spent with their expensive lobbyists paid off. Of course if SB 27 dies on the vine this year, we will be back until the "red herring" is exposed and we get rid of this silly Nanny state law.

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Seriously? That is almost verbatim what you said. See your text in bold:

No, it's not verbatim, it isn't even close. My point was that some boats, number unknown, have left the lake because of speed limits. I made no reference to the economy or boats leaving the lake due to the economy.

However it is a perfect example of using "SPIN". Trying and put words in my mouth that I never said, never intended, and do not believe to be factual.

I actually try and think through my posts before I hit the submit button. If I wanted to make reference to the economy, I would have done so. I never put words in my opponents mouth. I wish others would show me the same courtesy.

Bear Islander-
"I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits."

Dave R-
"You really think the speed limit has affected boater numbers more than the economy? That seems really unlikely to me, especially considering the small percentage of boats that are performance boats."

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

No, it's not verbatim, it isn't even close. My point was that some boats, number unknown, have left the lake because of speed limits. I made no reference to the economy or boats leaving the lake due to the economy.

However it is a perfect example of using "SPIN". Trying and put words in my mouth that I never said, never intended, and do not believe to be factual.

I actually try and think through my posts before I hit the submit button. If I wanted to make reference to the economy, I would have done so. I never put words in my opponents mouth. I wish others would show me the same courtesy.

Bear Islander-
"I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits."

Dave R-
"You really think the speed limit has affected boater numbers more than the economy? That seems really unlikely to me, especially considering the small percentage of boats that are performance boats."

My original post was about the economy being the main reason behind lower boat numbers and your response to it began with "I'm sorry but I think you are incorrect.". No spin, just a reasonable conclusion, IMO.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

........I am a member of performance boat forums at other sites like OSO. In those forums you will find multiple declarations from performance boaters that the speed limit has caused them to go elsewhere and that they will never return to Winni while it has a speed limit.

I have no idea what the numbers are, yet clearly there are a number of boaters that have left Winni because of the speed limits. To argue otherwise is absurd........

During the early to mid-2000s and the housing price bubble, many boats (all types) were paid for with equity loans or re-fi's. That money source is now gone. Even with an "economic recovery" the housing sector is still in shambles post-bubble so it's not likely we'll see that return anytime soon either.

My wife works in banking and can tell you many stories of people who would get 75k equity lines of credit and use the whole thing in one check for things like boats, cars, RVs, etc. Now, that same recreational crowd has to get consumer loans and have to put money down.....

[MAXUM]

The truth of the matter is simple, the SL was never about speed, it was all about creating an environment that would discourage performance boats from being used on the lake. The speed limit idea was just a less offensive way to frame the argument. Fact is the SL has done nothing to improve safety and accidents at ANY speed can result in fatalities.

It's a crock of (bleep) if you ask me.

[BroadHopper]

Shortly after Lake George enact their SL, property values have increased. When WinFabs found out they decided to increase the value of their property by doing the same. Funny thing, lake front property have increased every where so it was irrelevant. But it did not deter the Lake George SL supporters story. WinFabs was touting Lake George as an example until a boater decapitated himself when he was going to close to a swim raft with a dive board. He was under the SL but will be violating our 150 ft law. Someone with a big a$$ cruiser swamped a tour boat with his wake resulting in changing laws governing tour boats. I think the tour boat was overloaded.

The SL law did not remove the 'cowboy' atmosphere from Lake George. So Winfabs decided not to use Lake George as an example.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I cared when I was visiting my son's summer camp on Winni and I asked the director why none of his boats were out on the lake on such a beautiful day.
He explained that there were some days, mostly weekends, when the cowboy atmosphere on the lake was so bad, that he could not justify sending out children in sail boats, kayaks and canoes. He also could not allow water skiing on those days.

He didn't think a speed limit would completely solve the problem. But he did think it might reduce the weekend madness of the lake in the future.

Looks like he was right.

BI, your argument doesn't hold much water and neither does the camp director's. I've seen camps where they had their little flotilla of sailboatsand from what I have witnessed over and over again is people largely stay away from them.

Your argument would have people believe there is not enough room for the camps and boaters. Pick the busiest day of summer boat traffic and I can find spots on the lake with no boats and plenty of room to operate any type of vessel you want be it sail, kayak, canoe, waterbike, etc.

In fact, I've seen the little flotillas of camp boats where if you really want to be a hard case the sailboats should all have been cited with violating the safe passage rule as they are above headway speed and close to each other. Or, do you think the MP should just look the other way because they are campers?

[Colby]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I cared when I was visiting my son's summer camp on Winni and I asked the director why none of his boats were out on the lake on such a beautiful day.
He explained that there were some days, mostly weekends, when the cowboy atmosphere on the lake was so bad, that he could not justify sending out children in sail boats, kayaks and canoes. He also could not allow water skiing on those days.

He didn't think a speed limit would completely solve the problem. But he did think it might reduce the weekend madness of the lake in the future.

Looks like he was right.

Some nice sunny summer weekends bring out a lot of boats to the lake no doubt about it. Is it crowded because of speed? I doubt it. Campers are not the only ones who may decide not to boat on those certain busy weekends. If I want to boat on one of those nice summer weekends I know when to do it to avoid the crowds. I go out before 10 AM and after 5 PM. Even on the busiest of weekend days there are not many out in the morning and around dinner time. In fact the lake often flattens out after 5 PM and it is better for water skiing.

Fast or slow there are busy times and places on the weekends. Bear Islander, ask the camp directors why they are not using the lake on the busy weekends now. Speed limits are not the answer.

If camp directors have a problem with boaters breaking the law they should call the Marine Patrol. All the laws prior to the Speed Limit law would take care of any problems. The speed limit restricts a very small percentage of boaters.

The lake can get too crowded on a nice weekend. IF you believe that more boats will come to the lake now that there are permanent speed limits then the weeekends will be even more crowded with boats. What will the camp directors use for an excuse then?

Speed limits will not reduce the number of boats on the lake on a sunny summer weekend it will probably lead to an even more crowded lake.

[NHBUOY]

...there you go...talkin all sensible......and a one finger salute (thumbzup)...to C......

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by Colby

Some nice sunny summer weekends bring out a lot of boats to the lake no doubt about it. Is it crowded because of speed? I doubt it. Campers are not the only ones who may decide not to boat on those certain busy weekends. If I want to boat on one of those nice summer weekends I know when to do it to avoid the crowds. I go out before 10 AM and after 5 PM. Even on the busiest of weekend days there are not many out in the morning and around dinner time. In fact the lake often flattens out after 5 PM and it is better for water skiing.

Fast or slow there are busy times and places on the weekends. Bear Islander, ask the camp directors why they are not using the lake on the busy weekends now. Speed limits are not the answer.

If camp directors have a problem with boaters breaking the law they should call the Marine Patrol. All the laws prior to the Speed Limit law would take care of any problems. The speed limit restricts a very small percentage of boaters.

The lake can get too crowded on a nice weekend. IF you believe that more boats will come to the lake now that there are permanent speed limits then the weeekends will be even more crowded with boats. What will the camp directors use for an excuse then?

Speed limits will not reduce the number of boats on the lake on a sunny summer weekend it will probably lead to an even more crowded lake.

It's funny how so many people think they know more than the experts. You see it all the time, people that have never been in law enforcement but they know more about it than the police do. People that have never taught a class but know more about it than teachers do.

People that have never directed a camp but they know more about running a camp than camp directors do.

The 191 Children's Camp Directors that comprise the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association voted UNANIMOUSLY to support speed limits. But hey, what do they know.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It's funny how so many people think they know more than the experts.

The 191 Children's Camp Directors that comprise the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association voted UNANIMOUSLY to support speed limits. But hey, what do they know.

Good question. Tell me, what do camp directors know? What sort of qualifications does one need to become camp director? How do those qualifications apply to the science of judging safe boat operating speeds? Why should camp director opinions about boating speed limits carry more weight than the opinion of the director of NH Marine Patrol? Why should anyone care what camp directors think about anything but directing camps? What do camp directors do for the 10 months that camps are closed?

I agree, it's funny how so many (at least 191) people think they know more than the experts.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Dave R

What do camp directors do for the 10 months that camps are closed? .

They are school teachers. They TEACH your children. NB

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It's funny how so many people think they know more than the experts. You see it all the time, people that have never been in law enforcement but they know more about it than the police do. People that have never taught a class but know more about it than teachers do.

People that have never directed a camp but they know more about running a camp than camp directors do.

The 191 Children's Camp Directors that comprise the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association voted UNANIMOUSLY to support speed limits. But hey, what do they know.

EXPERTS: ??? How dare anyone challenge the experts. Maybe Common Sence works better than Advanced Degrees....from the "Halls Of Ivy". Would you be more impressed if I had (PHD) after my name,?? NB

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

It's funny how so many people think they know more than the experts. You see it all the time, people that have never been in law enforcement but they know more about it than the police do. People that have never taught a class but know more about it than teachers do.

People that have never directed a camp but they know more about running a camp than camp directors do.

The 191 Children's Camp Directors that comprise the New Hampshire Camp Directors Association voted UNANIMOUSLY to support speed limits. But hey, what do they know.

These same camp directors lobbied the legislature to remove a provision in a recent bill that would have required a whistle or horn in a "human powered" vessel. Sure, they care about kids and safety!! Let's hear it BI - "oh, they only care about one issue - speed limits. They don't care about safety, global warming, the devaluation of the dollar, the price of gas, whale hunting or Darfur." When will people see through all this rubbish anyway? Answer: Never.

[NHBUOY]

...Hey GRneck..awesome first-hand account of your encounter with badly behaved, disrespectful, and ignorant children...under SUPERVISION of a "camp counselor"...typical, and makes you wonder what their PARENTS are like.?....I go deaf and see red when people make the "It's to save the children..." argument...in my mind, camps = glorified baby-sitters these days...I stand by the "..use your common sense, or SOMEBODY is going to regulate the regulations..." for you...and DON'T be pee'in on my leg and tell me it's raining......COWBOY, as defined by the people who use the term with disdain, is usually used to describe someone having way too much fun, than the person using the term "COWBOY"....just sayin...

[Grandpa Redneck]

Nhbuoy absolutly right the cars around that camp on drop off and pickup days are high end, BMW, mercedes, cadilacs, Lincolns, etc with Mass and NY plates.

[NHBUOY]

...check out the front page of the "Boating & Recreation Guide/2011" that Weirs Times produces with NHBM...it just made me chuckle......

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Why do you care how fast someone is going when they are 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore? I'm just curious. I apologize if it's already been asked and answered.

"Question for speed limit supporters "

If that's a question for speed limit supporters, I'd like to interrupt!

While most Winnipesaukee hazards lurk underwater, there are reasons near shore for being especially careful—and speed increases the severity of a fatal impact—as likely happened directly across from my place about 125' off a beach.

("Estimated"—perhaps further-out than that).

[topwater]

Another Foreign Country heard from...

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by topwater

Another Foreign Country heard from...

The aliens are here! The aliens are here!

True NH natives always resented the fact that I-93 came up through NH. It was the biggest mistake ever made. It brought the foreigners here!

Now we are fighting the widening of I-93 and Rte 3. Guess what? NH natives are now the minority. The aliens voted to widen 93 so that there will be a mass exodus of flatlanders into the Heartland of NH.

No wonder Maine is laughing at us. I-95 only follow the coast and the heartland of Maine is saved!

That's why the Old Man is dead.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

True NH natives always resented the fact that I-93 came up through NH. It was the biggest mistake ever made. It brought the foreigners here!

Now we are fighting the widening of I-93 and Rte 3. Guess what? NH natives are now the minority. The aliens voted to widen 93 so that there will be a mass exodus of flatlanders into the Heartland of NH.

No wonder Maine is laughing at us. I-95 only follow the coast and the heartland of Maine is saved!

That's why the Old Man is dead.

Excellent post. My thoughts exactly.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by topwater

Another Foreign Country heard from...

I'm answering DaveR's question with a photo of a hazard that I can presently see ¾-mile away—through this morning's rain.

My only "mistake" was being born in a neighboring state; however, I appeared in Melvin Village shortly afterwards. My family has been in Melvin since before the Depression, so I can sympathize with those who call themselves "native".

Their first home is today the site of The Melvin Marina: between the barn and the dwelling is a well. The present owners didn't know that until I told them!

My family knew Dr. Libby—of the Libby Museum—and were pioneers among the Lakes Region's earliest aviators. My family goes back to a summer camp—that was founded at the turn of the Century—two centuries ago!

None in my family supports the cause of boaters who have no empathy for their fellow boaters—whether "native" or not.

[NHBUOY]

...I guess, technically, and using aps's logic, since my cousin, Chris Columbus, an Italian, discovered America, none of you are as "native" as me and the Indians...and...NH's live free or die sentiment, though noble & inspiring, is a lie & a misnomer...BTW...I think "The Broads" is a PERFECT place for a "Red Bull" precision flying competition...seriously......

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by NHBUOY

...I guess, technically, and using aps's logic, since my cousin, Chris Columbus, an Italian, discovered America, none of you are as "native" as me and the Indians...and...NH's live free or die sentiment, though noble & inspiring, is a lie & a misnomer...BTW...I think "The Broads" is a PERFECT place for a "Red Bull" precision flying competition...seriously......

When your cousin Chris Columbus landed my Abenaki ancestors were already living at Lake Winnipesaukee, which by the way, they named. Sorry about that, but I am more "native" than you.

[NHBUOY]

...easy Cochise......merely trying to make a point...with a little levity...not a native, and the more I see, the less I WANT to be considered a "native"...I've "only" owned houses(mtn & lake), paid taxes, supported the local economy, participated in many activities around the lake, and sent 2 kids through the Lin-Wood school system...for 50+ years...just a flatlander with NH masochistic tendencies......

[ApS]

Originally Posted by NHBUOY

...I think "The Broads" is a PERFECT place for a "Red Bull" precision flying competition...seriously...

Not everybody knows of "Red Bull" competition: members here may have taken it for racing speedboats across The Broads.

With the required 150-foot separation, just three boats "flying" side-by-side denies 450' of the lake to other boaters—for every second of operation. That's a lot of acres-per-second!

But you meant this:



...and this...

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Why do you care how fast someone is going when they are 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore? I'm just curious.

Due to the high water level and boat traffic, the Winnipesaukee-equivalent of the "Pacific Gyre" appeared off my shoreline yesterday. It was filled with plastic water bottles, driftwood, planking, a tennis ball, a fishing float, lake-bottom vegetation, many clumps of pine-needles, lawn clippings, a bucket, and many large clumps of a fine species of lawn grass: None of which could be good for your boat.

Most of the debris was just below the surface and hard to see, even at moderate speeds.

The "Gyre" probably stayed there overnight, but didn't reappear this morning—and speaking of overnight—a canvas-covered gray motorboat is adrift off Port Wedeln, right in the middle of Winter Harbor, now.

The "Winnipesaukee Gyre" would be invisible to most speed-boaters, so wouldn't any responsible speed-boater want to stay away from shorelines—and its seasonal debris—at least 150-feet?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Why do you care how fast someone is going when they are 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore? I'm just curious.

If "other people" includes sailboats, you may already know that sailing can involve some unpredictable—yet major—"moves". If you're going somewhere speedily, and distracted—say—by your GPS, you risk collision.

Even if you don't collide, you've made no friends should a law against excessive speed—on protected inland waters—become prominent.

Collision damage is magnified with speed: it's Physics—and that's a law!

[NHBUOY]

"...sailing can involve some unpredictable-yet major-"moves". If you're going somewhere speedily, and distracted-say-" by a quick & hurried tack with the boom flying..."...you risk collision."..."...you've made no friends here."......there...now I can agree with you......btw...who's the moron using signal mirror/devices on the Lake for something "other" than an emergency..?...anyone we know.?.....

[BroadHopper]

I remember a decade or so ago, a local woman was killed in a sailboat accident. The sailor is one of Winnfabs sponsor. Sailing can be just as dangerous as power boating.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I remember a decade or so ago, a local woman was killed in a sailboat accident. The sailor is one of Winnfabs sponsor. Sailing can be just as dangerous as power boating.

...and...

Originally Posted by Dave R

You can't have a collision with 150' separation. It's (really basic) physics.

Without coming within 150' of it and without touching it with your powerboat's wake—you can overturn a sailboat.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

...and...

Without coming within 150' of it and without touching it with your powerboat's wake—you can overturn a sailboat.

That is true, but read his post again. He was talking about a collision, not an overturned sailboat.
Context my friend, it's all about context.

[fatlazyless]

From my lookout spot, close to Buoy 3, it always seemed like the performance boaters were also pretty much the all-weather, hard core boaters who like to spend a lot of time on the water and were almost always out there. Trying to figure if it's been the weather, the price of gas, or the speed limit is very open to conjecture, but so far this season, the lake seems to be more empty of boaters and more quiet than in prior seasons. Just my two cents?

[BroadHopper]

I was out 'broadhopping' Father's Day. Hardly a boat in sight in the white caps. No SL supporters to bother me, cut me off etc. Got to love a lake without boneheads!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

If "other people" includes sailboats, you may already know that sailing can involve some unpredictable—yet major—"moves". If you're going somewhere speedily, and distracted—say—by your GPS, you risk collision.

Even if you don't collide, you've made no friends should a law against excessive speed—on protected inland waters—become prominent.

Collision damage is magnified with speed: it's Physics—and that's a law!

You can't have a collision with 150' separation. It's (really basic) physics.

[Joe Kerr]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

If "other people" includes sailboats, you may already know that sailing can involve some unpredictable—yet major—"moves". If you're going somewhere speedily, and distracted—say—by your GPS, you risk collision.

One of the Benefits of speed limits is the need to check your speed often. Most built in boat speedometers are not highly accurate and depending on the water waves and current they do not show actual land speed. They just show an approximate speed at which the water passes the hull of the boat.

A GPS is the best way to keep tabs on your real speed. With speed limits it makes nothing but good sense to routinely take your eyes off of the water and focus on the small MPH numbers on your GPS to make sure you are not breaking the law. This is particularly important at night to keep kayaks, canoes, swimmers and campers safe from speeders.

Of course it takes a few moments for your eyes to adjust from scanning the water to focusing on the little speed limit numbers on your GPS and then for your eyes to readjust to view the lake but it must be worth it to keep everyone safe. And don't forget that some people need to change glasses from distance to reading glasses to clearly see those speed limit numbers on the GPS. And in daylight those polarized sun glass lenses make it harder to see LCD displays. All these distractions re-enforcing the need for speed limits.

I remember someone saying that good vision is not one of the requirements for a safe boater education certificate. Even more reason to have restricted speeds to help compensate for poor vision and distractions to check your speed on those handheld GPS units.

Reading over my post before I press SUBMIT is making me confused. Whatever, as long as people feel safe because of the speed limit laws..... Right?

[Commodore]

Originally Posted by Joe Kerr

A GPS is the best way to keep tabs on your real speed. With speed limits it makes nothing but good sense to routinely take your eyes off of the water and focus on the small MPH numbers on your GPS to make sure you are not breaking the law. This is particularly important at night to keep kayaks, canoes, swimmers and campers safe from speeders.
All these distractions re-enforcing the need for speed limits.

I remember someone saying that good vision is not one of the requirements for a safe boater education certificate. Even more reason to have restricted speeds to help compensate for poor vision and distractions to check your speed on those handheld GPS units.
.... Right?

Hahahaha. That's funny

Checking your speed on the GPS means taking your eyes off the water. Distraction in the name of safety. Got to watch those speed numbers. It's enough to make Speed Limit supporters sleep more soundly and securely.
It should make families, campers and the 190 camp directors feel better about those midnight swims and canoe expeditions

[laketrout]

Originally Posted by Dave R

Why do you care how fast someone is going when they are 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore? I'm just curious. I apologize if it's already been asked and answered.

I agree, as long as your 150' froms the shore or other boats who cares and your operately properly. People must remeber and relize that the New Hampshire State Legislature is made up of part timers who get paid $100 a year. I am sure 90% of them have never even been on the Big Lake in a boat and how many own boats. Silly law.. I do not even go 50mph but I hate getting told what to do.Isnt that what makes or made (or past tense) NH special "Live Free"
On a side note I am sure the underfunded Marine Patrol can barely keep up never mind do speed traps on everyboat going over a speed limit..