Question for speed limit supporters

[W Clarke]

Originally Posted by Dave R

I was already familiar with that rhetoric, I was just wondering why you cared how fast someone was going when they were 150 feet or more away from any other people or shore.

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Hi Warren,
Can you please state the facts about how many times on Lake Winnipesaukee a boat that was travelling greater than 45 MPH has struck another boat, canoe, kayak or swimmer? You stated that "speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them". So, please give the facts on how many times speeders have not been able to avoid objects.

Thank you.

[W Clarke]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hi Warren,
Can you please state the facts about how many times on Lake Winnipesaukee a boat that was travelling greater than 45 MPH has struck another boat, canoe, kayak or swimmer? You stated that "speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them". So, please give the facts on how many times speeders have not been able to avoid objects.

Thank you.

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

I'm begging the question, name me specific near misses by speeding boats. I bet you these 'cowboys' are renters that rents from your sponsors.

[NHBUOY]

...Risk management/accident avoidance & exposure/loss reduction specialists...etal...are large departments at ALL insurance companies...these are the people you want to talk to about, real or imagined, "near misses"...ANY intelligent "camp director", wouldn't need the insurance company to TELL him that it is probably not a good idea to let the kids run amuck in boats they aren't too skilled at operating, on Lake Winnipesaukee, on weekends, and national holidays...due to sheer numbers (density), ratios of probability, & observational anomalies...when I was a kid and the lake was busy on weekends, we'd sit on the dock and watch the show...it ALWAYS thinned out sooner or later...believe me, insurance companies look at this stuff...have you bought a lift ticket lately.?..I rest my case...ask your camp director friend if his risk manager has looked at his operation...YET...a risk management analysis is almost mandatory these days...NHB...I vote common sense......

[BroadHopper]

I have to agree with NHBOUY. If my gfbl was very dangerous, I would be paying more than $110 a year on boat insurance. In fact my best friend has one of those family bowriders and he is paying $700 a year. I wonder why the insurance industry consider a bow rider more of a risk than my LS?

I avoid the weekends during prime season and enjoy the weekdays. Off season is the best for weekend boating. September is the best time of the year to boat. Seems like when the kids are back to school, the 'cowboys' are gone!

[Grandpa Redneck]

Last season, on a smaller lake with a Camp on it up here in the White Mountains, Myself Grandma Redneck and the the family were anchored in a small shallow cove. The kids, grandkids, and I were playing in the water, Grandma was off 50-75 feet away wading and drownin' worms. We heard a bunch of hollarin' and looked up and a fleet of canoes and kayaks were heading out from the camp, eventually they were followed by a councilor in a motor boat. They headed directly across the lake toward us. Some of these hooligans were "racing" and hitting each other with paddles, as they approached they were not paying any attention to where they were going, the lead 2 craft, a conoe with 3, and a double kayak almost broad sided us as they were too busy hitting each other and hollarin' to pay attention to what was right in front of them, the canoe managed to slip between our bow and the shore, without hitting us the, kayak scraped across the bow. without a word of appology. A second canoe paddled directly over Grandmas fishing line between her and her bobber, again no appology or even any greeting.
When they got out of their boats they started running around splashing in the water throwing balls, frisbees, rocks and sticks, almost hitting our 1 year old grand daughter in a floaty.
By then the " councilor" arrived and made no effort to reign in the out of control mob. We loaded up and asked the councilor to have the kids move out from behind the boat so we could leave. He spoke to them, some listened some didn't, and he turned and walked into the woods. We told the kids to please move out of the way, they finally did, after we asked 3 times. We left and went for a cruise around the lake and did some fishing.
Later we returned to the cove when it was empty again, there were large rocks all over the bottom, and branches, small trees, and other debris that had been on the shore line floating in the water. We cleaned up their mess.
When we spoke to the Camp management about the issue they said " Our campers would never do that".
The camp also has 2 ski boats, and tube, knee board the kids and some of the councilors wake board and ski. A second camp also has a ski boat.
and they quite often break the 150 foot rule.

Maybe we should ban camps with stupid councilors and disrespectful hooligan children.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

You should be asking the question about how many near misses happen because of speeding boats. People like you try to twist the truth. There are too many near misses that could be avoided if boats traveled more slowly and cautiously. Who keeps track of near misses? For aircraft the FAA keeps track of close calls. Even with control towers, transponders and radar there are close calls with airplanes in the air and on the ground. You can find some statistics on that if you want to. No one keeps records like that about boats on the less controlled lake.

SBONH and the GFBL groups clamor about violations of the 150 foot rule. Go slower and there will be fewer safe passage violations because there will be more time to see and react to situations.

I hope that answers your question Chip.

Warner

Hi Warner, sorry but that does not come close to answering my question. My question was-how many times was a boat unable to avoid a collision?

I certainly cannot disagree about 150' rule violations, there are plenty of infractions across all bodies of water in NH. I see it all the time. However, I see it happen with all kinds of boats at any speed. In fact just Sunday I witnessed a pontoon boat plowing along at about 15MPH about 50' from shore. Completely oblivious to the law.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Hi Warner, sorry but that does not come close to answering my question. My question was-how many times was a boat unable to avoid a collision?

I certainly cannot disagree about 150' rule violations, there are plenty of infractions across all bodies of water in NH. I see it all the time. However, I see it happen with all kinds of boats at any speed. In fact just Sunday I witnessed a pontoon boat plowing along at about 15MPH about 50' from shore. Completely oblivious to the law.

I wonder if this is the same pontoon boat that was passing boats in the Weirs Channel no wake zone this weekend. I notice it was a rental and I am not going to disclose the renter and get batched by the SL supporters.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I wonder if this is the same pontoon boat that was passing boats in the Weirs Channel no wake zone this weekend. I notice it was a rental and I am not going to disclose the renter and get batched by the SL supporters.

Nope, not the same one, I was not on Winni this weekend.

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Why don't you get the opinion of the Hartman or Littlefield family on this? Under 30mph killed someone in this case...

Why don't you get the opinion of the Blizzard or Beaudoin family on this? A boat traveling at slow speeds killed in this case as well.


I'd love to hear your answer to Chipj29's question....Or lack thereof

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by codeman671

Why don't you get the opinion of the Hartman or Littlefield family on this? Under 30mph killed someone in this case...

Why don't you get the opinion of the Blizzard or Beaudoin family on this? A boat traveling at slow speeds killed in this case as well.

I've already posted their opinions, my gf is best friend of Mrs. Hartmann and I am Stephanie's cousin. Both are fuming that they got dragged into the SL debate. BACK OFF!

[codeman671]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I've already posted their opinions, my gf is best friend of Mrs. Hartmann and I am Stephanie's cousin. Both are fuming that they got dragged into the SL debate. BACK OFF!

My point was neither was speeding and that speed didn't kill...Chill out.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

I agree that some boats are too loud (but they don't necessarily have to be exceeding 45 to be too loud). I'm also reasonably certain there's laws against excessive noise. I would REALLY like those laws to be enforced on the water and on the street.

[Chimi]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

It's also safer to stay in your house than it is to go outside. Why do you go outside? Most of us are sick of this nanny state government and are fighting this issue (not "facts" as you refer to them) because of this very reason.

[Grandpa Redneck]

For everyone that seams to think the Gov needs to legislate every aspect of our lives. Maybe, Just maybe you should move to MASS, they really like to do that there.
Here in NH we prefer our FREEDOMS.

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Speaking of Cowboys........ Welcome aboard new guy. Three posts and you come out of the chute with GUNS Blazing.

I wonder WHO....................... W Clarke REALLY is..? NB

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by W Clarke

We care how fast the cowboys are going because of the overwhelming possibility that they do not react quickly enough to stay 150 feet away. At speeds well over 45 mph the reaction time is too short to insure that safe passage is maintained. Those speeders can't always see objects in time to safely avoid them. Too often speeders do not see objects low in the water such as kayaks, swimmers and canoes to stay 150 feet away. If we are lucky they swerve away much closer than the 150 foot area because they can not see and react in reasonable and prudent time and manner. They don't have time to observe the proper Right-of-Way rules, if they know them. AND at fast speeds they can be very loud.

Do not overlook the advantage that speed limits give to the MP to pull over those speeders to check for BUI. If the boat is perceived as going over the speed limit it is a reason for MP to stop and inspect the vessel. That is a valuable tool to help keep the lake safe. It's part of the important impact of the Speed Limits.

How often do you have to hear this before it sinks in?

Slower is safer. Why fight the facts?

Since we can all but assume you are not Warren Clarke, I would love for you to walk up to me and my family while out on the lake and call me a "cowboy", "drug abuser", "drunkard", or one of the other many colorful names you and your ilk like to use so causually. Very easy for you to hide behind that keyboard but you don't even have a single synapse in your spinal cord that would let you do it too our faces. You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me.

The facts are that you have more probability of getting injured in YOUR OWN HOME than while out on a boat. Why fight the facts?

Go back into your little hole. Hopefully Don verifies the IP as I smell a troll.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Since we can all but assume you are not Warren Clarke, I would love for you to walk up to me and my family while out on the lake and call me a "cowboy", "drug abuser", "drunkard", or one of the other many colorful names you and your ilk like to use so causually. Very easy for you to hide behind that keyboard but you don't even have a single synapse in your spinal cord that would let you do it too our faces. You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me.

The facts are that you have more probability of getting injured in YOUR OWN HOME than while out on a boat. Why fight the facts?

Go back into your little hole. Hopefully Don verifies the IP as I smell a troll.

LS,

Why would you as an anonymous forum member get so upset with another anonymous forum member. Remember we don’t know who you are in real life and you don’t know who we are in real life.

According to what you say you are more educated than everyone on this forum combined. You are an engineer who travels extensively, run marathons, knows how to fix just about anything, have a son who is college age, and I’m sure you have a nice family and are well respected in your community.

Having said all that I just can’t figure out why you would get so upset with an anonymous forum member and want to punch his lights out (I'm assuming when you say "You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me" it means you would punch him out). In fact I can’t understand why someone who is so perfect as you say you are would want to spend so much time arguing with anonymous people who will say anything just to get you riled up.

You need to get involved with real people and let them know your real name if you want anyone to take you serious. Just posting here as an anonymous poster and asking someone to call you a name so you can show them how well you can fight makes you look like…….I’ll let you guess as to what that is.

[topwater]

Rusty, You haven't answered a very simply question. What type and size boat do you have? Thanks

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by topwater

Rusty, You haven't answered a very simply question. What type and size boat do you have? Thanks

Ok, OK....One fairly good size sail boat with a small dinghy. Two Kayaks and two canoes.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Rusty

LS,

Why would you as an anonymous forum member get so upset with another anonymous forum member. Remember we don’t know who you are in real life and you don’t know who we are in real life.

According to what you say you are more educated than everyone on this forum combined. You are an engineer who travels extensively, run marathons, knows how to fix just about anything, have a son who is college age, and I’m sure you have a nice family and are well respected in your community.

Having said all that I just can’t figure out why you would get so upset with an anonymous forum member and want to punch his lights out (I'm assuming when you say "You'd get publically embarrassed, trust me" it means you would punch him out). In fact I can’t understand why someone who is so perfect as you say you are would want to spend so much time arguing with anonymous people who will say anything just to get you riled up.

You need to get involved with real people and let them know your real name if you want anyone to take you serious. Just posting here as an anonymous poster and asking someone to call you a name so you can show them how well you can fight makes you look like…….I’ll let you guess as to what that is.

Rusty, show me where I typed that I would punch someone? In fact, it would probably be my WIFE who would give you or any other pro-SL fanatic a verbal beat down should you verbally assualt us by calling us the various names you throw around here.

Anonymous? Look at the editorials where the "cowboy" moniker has been thrown around.

Some of you want to write checks with your mouth that you can't cash.

[topwater]

Rusty, How and what do you base your hardcore knowledge of fast speeds on? I think what we're seeing here is alot, and I mean alot of people with little knowledge of the subject and experience. But yet still keep it flowing because they like to be on a bandwagon. We all know its not speed, it's the idiots that come up here and don't know what they are doing. Some people make alot of money off those people, so heaven forbid we call a spade a spade.

[NoBozo]

SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster. But maybe RUSTY is W CLARKE ...OR... W Clark is Rusty...or maybe even Skip..OR.....The Webmaster.

It gets really confusing, what with so many people getting away with having multiple screenames...and multiple characters.....

Every week, some NEW "member" comes out of the woodwork with guns blazing like some stinkin cowboy and expects us to believe they just veered onto the scene....... BUT already has an opinion on the subject like they have been here for years.

OK: I'm dead. NB

[Skip]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

...SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster...

My wife will definitely be glad to hear that!

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

SKIP is definitely Real, I know this because I saw him in the group picture at the Forum Fest...with the Webmaster. But maybe RUSTY is W CLARKE ...OR... W Clark is Rusty...or maybe even Skip..OR.....The Webmaster.

It gets really confusing, what with so many people getting away with having multiple screenames...and multiple characters.....

Every week, some NEW "member" comes out of the woodwork with guns blazing like some stinkin cowboy and expects us to believe they just veered onto the scene....... BUT already has an opinion on the subject like they have been here for years.

OK: I'm dead. NB

And I'm here as well. I own no guns, no motorcycles, have never threatened anyone, and yet, I was a huge target for the SL proponents. I know why that is.