Health Insurance

[lobstadanca]

Frustrated with the available health insurance costs and options...Seeking recommendations for an affordable private health care plan (2 retired adults not eligible for Medicare yet), not on the health care market place. Our current plan (Anthem Blue Cross/Bronze) is doubling in cost again next year.
Not seeking a new agent, but asking opinions to find reasonable coverage that allows us preventative care, a reasonable deductible and the ability to use our current local doctors, specialists and unlimited hospitals.

[WinnisquamZ]

Have you spoke to your two senators about your health care plan?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[gwhite13]

Check with your doctors office. Quite often they know how coverages work with different plans.
Your senators were outvoted in trying to stabilize healthcare. With the upcoming windfall about to befall the middle class, you will be able to cover all costs.

[rsmlp]

I feel your pain brother (pun intended). Since Ocare I've had my insurance escalate to what is now $1800/mo with anthem and that includes a $12,000 deductible with my wife. Talking to your senator is TOTAL bs. What are they gonna do? Will be moving my primary residence to FL this Jan and it's not much better down there.
This is OUR fault. We've elected these dopes and are literally paying the price.

[Seaplane Pilot]

And the worst part is that these hack politicians are totally exempt from all of this BS. WE get to pay for their premium health care on top of it all. What a joke.

[camp guy]

Seaplane says it right on the nose ...they are exempt and we pay. Over the past few years there has been discussion of removing all exemptions these officials enjoy and making them subject to ALL the same rules and regulations we have to follow. Maybe that would cause them to rethink some of the actions they take.

[Major]

Originally Posted by gwhite13

Check with your doctors office. Quite often they know how coverages work with different plans.
Your senators were outvoted in trying to stabilize healthcare. With the upcoming windfall about to befall the middle class, you will be able to cover all costs.

"Stabilizing healthcare!" Are you kidding? Obamacare is in a complete free fall. If you own a small business, like I do, you would know that. I yearn for the days when healthcare increased 1-5% annually. Now it's more like 10-20%. Guess who pays for it? I'm looking in the mirror.

Make no mistake, both of our esteemed senators would prefer a single-payer system. Both support Medicaid expansion. Both support complete funding of Planned Parenthood. NH needs to elect conservative representatives, and finally put Obamacare out of its misery.

[Woody38]

I graduated many,many years ago. Needing health insurance for us I contacted BC. The then premium at the time for an individual policy was in the area of $9,000 yearly. What would that correlate to today.
Then we got into a group plan and guess what happened. After a couple years one member had a heart attack and the plan was canceled.
Competition really worked well then and it will not work today. "Covered lives" as we are called are ducks in the meddle.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

[tis]

Originally Posted by Major

"Stabilizing healthcare!" Are you kidding? Obamacare is in a complete free fall. If you own a small business, like I do, you would know that. I yearn for the days when healthcare increased 1-5% annually. Now it's more like 10-20%. Guess who pays for it? I'm looking in the mirror.

Make no mistake, both of our esteemed senators would prefer a single-payer system. Both support Medicaid expansion. Both support complete funding of Planned Parenthood. NH needs to elect conservative representatives, and finally put Obamacare out of its misery.

Or more than 10-20%! My group is still what they call "Grandmothered" supposedly for one more year. Then we will be required to go to Obamacare which is even higher. Both saw a huge increase but our current plan was a bit less. It is very discouraging to try to buy it for your group.

[pault842]

Originally Posted by gwhite13

Check with your doctors office. Quite often they know how coverages work with different plans.
Your senators were outvoted in trying to stabilize healthcare. With the upcoming windfall about to befall the middle class, you will be able to cover all costs.

Now if this new system was so great, why did they have to "stabilize" it?

This is my third year with this chrapcare and it will be the third insurance company. The first is longer writting policies in NH and the second went bankrupt. The last 3 years my preimums have gone up 20%, 25%, and this year 50%.

[8gv]

It seems that Anthem Blue Cross is the only company writing individual (i.e. not group) plans in NH.

My premiums increased 61% this year.

I now have higher copays too.

[bruinsfan]

Originally Posted by WinnisquamZ

Have you spoke to your two senators about your health care plan?

Agreed.....


the Affordable Care Act; complete oxymoron.

[FlyingScot]

It's funny how different states have different experiences. In Mass, Romneycare, which is strikingly similar to Obamacare, seems to have had strong downward pressure on individual rates. Individual policy buyers used to pay close to 2X what a group plan would cost, now there's maybe a 20% premium. Key in Mass is that almost everyone has insurance, so the sick do not push up the rates as much as they would if they were the only individuals buying.

I agree the annual increases are terrible, pretty much across the board. But Obamacare was not set up to reduce premiums, it was set up to get more people insured. It's done that in spades--adding 20 million people--and this year enrollment is at a record level.

Let's hope Republicans and Democrats can collaborate on a plan to lower healthcare prices.

[Major]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Let's hope Republicans and Democrats can collaborate on a plan to lower healthcare prices.

Just like Democrats collaborated with Republicans when they implemented this social welfare program. Repeal and eliminate.

[Not to Worry]

Google the Obamacare and you will find that the claim of 20 million newly insured is not accurate. Washington simply played games with how they counted.

Obamacare is a disaster. I am paying a fortune for Health Insurance with a 10K deductible. IMHO the plan was to break the system of buying Health Insurance and force us into a single pay government backed health.

Best of luck finding a better solution.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Google the Obamacare and you will find that the claim of 20 million newly insured is not accurate. Washington simply played games with how they counted.

Obamacare is a disaster. I am paying a fortune for Health Insurance with a 10K deductible. IMHO the plan was to break the system of buying Health Insurance and force us into a single pay government backed health.

Best of luck finding a better solution.

And that is what PISSES me off the most: there IS no better solution! One choice=no competition.

[paintitredinHC]

Originally Posted by PeterG

Key in Mass is that almost everyone has insurance, so the sick do not push up the rates as much as they would if they were the only individuals buying.

I'm inclined to agree with Pete here.

As a right leaning professional in the industry - The individual mandate is the linchpin to the entire concept of RomneyCare/ObamaCare. RomneyCare did a better job than ObamaCare in enforcing the individual mandate which is why it has been more successful in MA.

I'll try to elaborate... 50% of Healthcare costs are driven by just 5% of the population. In short, there are healthy people and very sick people. The very sick people are often older, uneducated and indigent. The healthy people are forced to subsidize the sick. The question is, how do we do that?

Option 1: ObamaCare
Make everyone pay in and charge a fine if they do not comply - everyone has skin in the game. The premiums charged for the healthy people pay for those that actually use healthcare services. The problem is that the fine for the individual mandate under ObamaCare was too low and young/health/hard right leaning individuals refused to participate. As a result, insurance companies lost a lot of money because they had a lot of sick people using services and no way to pay for it. Insurance companies won't get burned again so premiums are growing. From an insurance companies perspective, they don't like uncertainty, and the only way to mitigate that risk is by charging more.

Option 2: Single Payer System (Universal Healthcare)
Make everyone pay in via higher taxes. Same idea as above - healthy pay for sick/poor etc... The problem here is the disconnect in the public conscience between money coming out of their pockets via taxes and what that affords. Without skin in the game, there is little incentive to shop for cheaper services, drive competition and pursue healthier behaviors. The end result higher costs overall. I should note that there would be some cost savings via simplified back office/billing.

Option 3: Pre-ObamaCare Insurance market:
Sick/Poor patients go without insurance or join Medicaid. They are still going to show up at the ER. The hospital will treat these patients (legally required), but are not going to just chalk that up as bad debt and walk away. They will charge higher costs for commercially insured patients who can pay, thereby offsetting the losses via cross subsidization. Think $10 Advil on your medical bill.

Option 4: Complete Fee For Service
If you can afford it, you can have it. Competition abound and prices drop! Survival of the fittest. But could you live with yourself?

This is complicated and there are no easy answers.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Not to Worry

Google the Obamacare and you will find that the claim of 20 million newly insured is not accurate. Washington simply played games with how they counted.

Obamacare is a disaster. I am paying a fortune for Health Insurance with a 10K deductible. IMHO the plan was to break the system of buying Health Insurance and force us into a single pay government backed health.

Best of luck finding a better solution.

Good idea on Google. If I ignore the pundits who hyperventilate at the word "Obama", and also set aside conspiracy theories such as the whole thing is a plan to break the system, I get a 2015 Goldman Sachs estimate of 17 million, including increased use of Medicaid (which was part of the plan). I'd call that close enough for government work.

I think we all agree that government should be doing something to reduce healthcare costs without sacrificing quality of care. Neither party has a plan to do that. The Republican plan would have cut spending, and I would have enjoyed the tax break. But their proposal would have increased costs and reduced coverage for the poor, sick, and old.

[jbolty]

None of the plans, especially Obamacare do anything the address healthcare expense or increase the supply. It was all a show to come up with a different way to continue paying the inflated and ever increasing costs.

single payer would be an even bigger disaster that obamacare but all the left wing nuts can't see past their wish for bigger and bigger government.

I saw this picture during the original Ocare debate and it scares the hell out of me that anyone thinks this is a good idea.

[Major]

Originally Posted by PeterG

I think we all agree that government should be doing something to reduce healthcare costs without sacrificing quality of care.

I want our Federal Government to provide for things in which it is Constitutionally obligated to address. No more, no less. Healthcare is not a Constitutional Right. Let the free market decide. Encourage competition. If money needs to be provided to those who truly cannot afford healthcare, let the state and local governments worry about it.

I know many, many people who claim that they cannot afford healthcare. These same people have financed cars, smart phones, cable tv, etc. For most people, it's not a question of being able to afford healthcare, it's a question of prioritization.

[Flylady]

Regardless of how much gutting happens with the ACA by the House and Congress, you can bet your premiums will continue to go up. This administration is pro big business and that includes insurance companies. With their taxes reduced and profits continuing to grow......do not expect them to lower your rates anytime soon. Why should they?

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by Major

I want our Federal Government to provide for things in which it is Constitutionally obligated to address. No more, no less. Healthcare is not a Constitutional Right. Let the free market decide. Encourage competition. If money needs to be provided to those who truly cannot afford healthcare, let the state and local governments worry about it.

I know many, many people who claim that they cannot afford healthcare. These same people have financed cars, smart phones, cable tv, etc. For most people, it's not a question of being able to afford healthcare, it's a question of prioritization.

I love posters who make sweeping statements like "most people prioritize cars, phones, etc. over healthcare spending" based upon data from "people they know." In fact I'm even more impressed with "many, many people." If we continue to base our voices and votes on data sampled from a few friends and acquaintances, nothing will ever improve.

[fatlazyless]

Have u heard the latest ..... with CVS joining forces with Aetna ..... you'll be able to get a very fast hip replacement down at your local CVS with fast, no waiting for an appointment, walk-in service.

And, how good is this; CVS will be doing cataract repair at their drive-thru window! On Sundays, you can get both cataract surgeries done for the price of one!

[MAXUM]

Country is to polarized to fix this, there are two opposing views to the whole HC debacle and quite frankly we do not have any politicians who will actually put their own party agenda aside and do what is best for the country.

Bottom line this whole HC experiment was a complete and utter failure of epic proportions.

Why anyone thinks the government can do healthcare right when history has shown time and time again they can't get anything right is beyond me. IF they were so bad at regulating it they had to take it over that says volumes...... not only proving their incompetence but proof that success in trying to run it was going to end in the disaster it is.

[noreast]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Country is to polarized to fix this, there are two opposing views to the whole HC debacle and quite frankly we do not have any politicians who will actually put their own party agenda aside and do what is best for the country.

Bottom line this whole HC experiment was a complete and utter failure of epic proportions.

Why anyone thinks the government can do healthcare right when history has shown time and time again they can't get anything right is beyond me. IF they were so bad at regulating it they had to take it over that says volumes...... not only proving their incompetence but proof that success in trying to run it was going to end in the disaster it is.

Exactly right! These politicians now are all political Pigs, The party and cash flow are far more important than the good of the country. Unfortunately some industries have proven that they can't be trusted with the free market system so we have to regulate the piss out of them, The problem is, the group that we put up to the task is even more compromised than the industry. We Have to break the 2 party system, both party's have lost all credibility. people fall in line like lemmings and think things will change.

[noreast]

APS has a great point as well, Illegal immigration has brought education and health care cost to it's knee's.

[ApS]

The architect of the ACA is quoted on YouTube, October 4th, 2013, as saying of the ACA "American voters are too stupid to understand". Two weeks later, to reinforce the first quote, he said, "Call it the stupidity of the American voter".

Today, anyone who shows up at an Emergency Room gets treated, and around 30 million more are "covered".

I liked it better when anyone who showed up at an Emergency Room got treated—and hospitals charged $15 for each aspirin.

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Have u heard the latest ..... with CVS joining forces with Aetna ..... you'll be able to get a very fast hip replacement down at your local CVS with fast, no waiting for an appointment, walk-in service. And, how good is this; CVS will be doing cataract repair at their drive-thru window! On Sundays, you can get both cataract surgeries done for the price of one!

There's Gold in them-thar Hills...!
(Hospitals are usually built on hills).

Insurance is supposed to save you when things go very wrong—not to allow-in 30 million more of the "undocumented/uninsured".

Years ago, I asked an attorney what he did for health insurance. He paid very reasonable premiums for a plan that paid for expenses that he couldn't handle. Day-to-day visits to the doctor, he paid out-of-pocket.

That's what "Insurance" should cover, IMHO.

>

[Major]

Originally Posted by Rattler

I love posters who make sweeping statements like "most people prioritize cars, phones, etc. over healthcare spending" based upon data from "people they know." In fact I'm even more impressed with "many, many people." If we continue to base our voices and votes on data sampled from a few friends and acquaintances, nothing will ever improve.

No, I understood completely.

[Major]

So I guess my life experiences and human interactions should have no influence on what I think. I guess I shouldn’t consider the influence my family had on me, considering my grandfather never made more than $7 per hour and paid cash for everything. I shouldn’t consider, having grown up in the construction trade, seeing some workers always broke because they made bad decisions and others succeed because of good decisions. I guess I shouldn’t be influenced by people I met in the Army in 24 years of service. I stick by my words. I’m tired of excuses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Biggd]

Ahh, "the good old days". They aren't ever coming back so you can forget about "the good old days". Technology has taken care of that.
Social media has taken society to a new low. No humility, no morals, people say what ever is on their minds, do what ever they feel like doing, good or bad, with no regard to others. Our new president has set the bar low in that respect and he has a lot of followers!

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Ahh, "the good old days". They aren't ever coming back so you can forget about "the good old days". Technology has taken care of that.
Social media has taken society to a new low. No humility, no morals, people say what ever is on their minds, do what ever they feel like doing, good or bad, with no regard to others. Our new president has set the bar low in that respect and he has a lot of followers!

Things started to go off the rails with William Jefferson Clinton. Until that time, our presidents' dalliances were kept away from the public. Clinton made it okay to screw around on your wife (Gennifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky), assault women (Paula Jones (settled for $850,000), Juanita Broaddrick, and Kathleen Willey), and viciously go after them if it's politically expedient to do so (HRC, George Stephanopoulos and the bimbo eruption squad). President Trump is a piker compared to Clinton. Clinton is the one that set the bar low.

The bottom line is that politicians having bad character is as old as organized government. Our present President is a fighter, and I like that. The more the left goes ballistic, I know he's doing something right.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Things started to go off the rails with William Jefferson Clinton. Until that time, our presidents' dalliances were kept away from the public. Clinton made it okay to screw around on your wife (Gennifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky), assault women (Paula Jones (settled for $850,000), Juanita Broaddrick, and Kathleen Willey), and viciously go after them if it's politically expedient to do so (HRC, George Stephanopoulos and the bimbo eruption squad). President Trump is a piker compared to Clinton. Clinton is the one that set the bar low.

The bottom line is that politicians having bad character is as old as organized government. Our present President is a fighter, and I like that. The more the left goes ballistic, I know he's doing something right.

So he's above all the rest because he fights back?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

So he's above all the rest because he fights back?

You are the one that said he's above the rest, not me.

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by Major

So I guess my life experiences and human interactions should have no influence on what I think. I guess I shouldn’t consider the influence my family had on me, considering my grandfather never made more than $7 per hour and paid cash for everything. I shouldn’t consider, having grown up in the construction trade, seeing some workers always broke because they made bad decisions and others succeed because of good decisions. I guess I shouldn’t be influenced by people I met in the Army in 24 years of service. I stick by my words. I’m tired of excuses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly, you obviously missed my point. Sorry for bothering you.

[TheRoBoat]

if FLL is being sarcastic - this type of merger is long overdue, and points to the future of the industry.

Great article from Harvard Business Review.

https://hbr.org/2017/12/what-the-cvs...-s-health-care

[Donzi Minx]

What a volatile topic.
Been a working fool since I was 13 and began paying the single plan BCBS right out of college. What bothers me the most as a Masshole for the past 41 years of paying for coverage, is the strange dichotomy of what you get when you pay and what you get when you can't pay. You must be medically treated either way.
You can betcha that the insurance / care good old Teddy the swimmer got in his final days is a quantum leap over anything that employers can provide and ask you to pony up your 25% obligation for the "Family" plan.
This boomah is tired of pulling the cart for the 51% that say they can't and won't.
I am truly waiting for the Trumpeteer to make America Great Again.

[thinkxingu]

*enters room, sees trainwreck, backs out*

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

[Major]

Originally Posted by lobstadanca

Frustrated with the available health insurance costs and options...Seeking recommendations for an affordable private health care plan (2 retired adults not eligible for Medicare yet), not on the health care market place. Our current plan (Anthem Blue Cross/Bronze) is doubling in cost again next year.
Not seeking a new agent, but asking opinions to find reasonable coverage that allows us preventative care, a reasonable deductible and the ability to use our current local doctors, specialists and unlimited hospitals.

Sorry for taking this in a different direction. To get back to the topic at hand, I can't help you Lobsta, I have Tricare Retired Reserve. It is $10K less per year than my firm's health plan. $10K vs. $20K. Good luck.

[jbolty]

.............

[ITD]

Individual plan here. Health insurance bill last year, $1385 per month, middle of the road plan, 5k/10k deductible, 25/35 copay, $200 er. Same plan this year, $1765 per month, 6k/12k deductible, 35/50 copay, $700 er, looks like we will suck it up and pay this year rather than take even higher deductible and copays for not that much of a difference. Thankful we can afford it, I really feel for those who can't.

Thanks Obama.

[gwhite13]

Don't forget, next year all medical costs and payments will no longer be deductible. State and property taxes also nixed. At least we can renovate our kitchen with the extra $500 they promised us.

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by gwhite13

Don't forget, next year all medical costs and payments will no longer be deductible. State and property taxes also nixed. At least we can renovate our kitchen with the extra $500 they promised us.

Actually, the medical is still in the Senate plan, but not in the House version. Since the bills have to be reconciled, the medical deduction may still survive. I sure hope so. Our costs have been the highest ever under Medicare. What a rip-off it is. Drug prices are a runaway train.

mac

[swnoel]

Thank you Obama... and to all those that voted him in! He did what he intended to do, burn down individual healthcare so it would never be the same! This isn't any ones fault except those that hide their heads in the sand believing they were going to get something for nothing!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Thank you Obama... and to all those that voted him in! He did what he intended to do, burn down individual healthcare so it would never be the same! This isn't any ones fault except those that hide their heads in the sand believing they were going to get something for nothing!

I carry a VA card around...

Too bad it's been refused...

.

[swnoel]

Originally Posted by ApS

I carry a VA card around...

Too bad it's been refused...

.

Who's refusing it... the VA?

[ApS]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Who's refusing it... the VA?

Yes, but maybe the VA was doing me a favor!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-l/971058001/

Or the same news without ads:

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/12/...oked-licenses/

.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by gwhite13

Don't forget, next year all medical costs and payments will no longer be deductible. State and property taxes also nixed. At least we can renovate our kitchen with the extra $500 they promised us.

What kitchen are you going to renovate with $500? That will buy you a dish washer that will only last 5 years.

[MAXUM]

Looky here and it's stainless steel

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Looky here and it's stainless steel

That looks like the one in my grand daughters doll house.

[The Real BigGuy]

You probably aren’t going to see any $ next year unless you are below the poverty line or making over 500k.

And just to throw gas on the fire - - my son-in-law is from Australia. One payer system. The state give you a basic health plan and you are free to buy supplemental insurance as you see fit. No BS issues of not being able to pick your doctor, etc. No issues with quality of care.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[The Real BigGuy]

I retired last year and wife & I now have Medicare and a BC of MA Advantage plan that provides better coverage with slightly lower deductible at about $100/mo less than my previous company plan and, we could keep the same doctors.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Garcia]

What I find frustrating is how easy it is to simply blame the other guy, or other party. Since the ACA was put into place the Republicans have campaigned relentlessly on how their plans and ideas will be so much better - more people covered, more choice, and lower costs. So what happened? It's clear there was no plan, just 7 years of talk, blame, and empty promises...

What's the solution? Start with this question - why are health care costs so much higher in the USA than the rest of the developed world? And, why is overall coverage lower? It's importantly to recognize that these are truths, not fake news.

Once people are willing to address the issue at hand and not simply blame the other guy or lament about the "good old days", we might find some answers. Given the state of affairs in Washington and the polarizing nature of the issue itself, I don't have lots of hope. IMHO there simply are far too few leaders (are there any?!) in our political system. Instead we have all kinds of blowhards, equally dispersed across the aisle.

Clearly I don't have the answer either!

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Garcia

What I find frustrating is how easy it is to simply blame the other guy, or other party. Since the ACA was put into place the Republicans have campaigned relentlessly on how their plans and ideas will be so much better - more people covered, more choice, and lower costs. So what happened? It's clear there was no plan, just 7 years of talk, blame, and empty promises...

What's the solution? Start with this question - why are health care costs so much higher in the USA than the rest of the developed world? And, why is overall coverage lower? It's importantly to recognize that these are truths, not fake news.

Once people are willing to address the issue at hand and not simply blame the other guy or lament about the "good old days", we might find some answers. Given the state of affairs in Washington and the polarizing nature of the issue itself, I don't have lots of hope. IMHO there simply are far too few leaders (are there any?!) in our political system. Instead we have all kinds of blowhards, equally dispersed across the aisle.

Clearly I don't have the answer either!

I agree, and we could start by reigning in the drug companies and their ridiculous price gouging. They are all going to get big tax breaks with this new lower corporate tax law. Do you think they are going to give the consumer a break by lowering their drug prices? I think not!
There are soooo many Bio Tech companies taking over big spaces along RT128 in Ma. Why is that? Because the drug industry is a cash cow!
And then you have these big greedy Hedge Fund firms buying up these drug companies that have developed life saving drugs and raising the prices on drugs that people can't live with out.
These Hedge Fund firms are the ones screwing everyone to keep their investors happy. They should outlaw all Hedge Funds or tax them to death! I could rant on but my blood pressure is rising. Where are my pills?

[Major]

The reason why we are blaming the other guy is that at the time Obamacare was enacted, half the country did not want it. Health care, at that time, while not perfect, worked for most Americans. If the issue was 10-15 million Americans who "could not afford" healthcare, some of us would have been willing to create another welfare program to address this "issue," rather than destroy a system that worked for most people. It became a political issue rather than a policy issue.

Regarding drug companies, I work in Kendall Square, where there is even more development than on 128. Our firm represents a lot of start up pharma companies. Be careful what you wish for. I don't fault drug companies one bit for profiting on the investments they make. These companies hire the world's brightest people to solve the most difficult of medical issues. (The reason why most of these companies have a huge presence in Kendall Square is that they want to be close to the talent.) For every drug that makes it, thousands of drugs don't, representing billions upon billions of dollars lost. If you would prefer lower costs for existing drugs, then you can expect a serious reduction in R&D.

[Garcia]

I both agree and disagree with Major. While ultimately half the country did not want the ACA, to state things were fine the way they were is not accurate. During the 2008 campaign health care was one of if not the most important issues Americans wanted fixed. The ACA did not come out of thin air but instead was a response to a problem Americans identified. That's not to say it was done well or resolved the issue, but to think that if we just went back to pre 2008 policies everything will be fine isn't the case.

Either way, I stand by my earlier statement that people are far more interested in placing blame than offering realistic and feasible solutions. I realize I am not offering solutions here, just making observations.

[jbolty]

Really the wheels fell off when health care and insurance became about "wellness". The analogy now would be asking for car insurance to pay for new tires and brakes to reduce accidents.

Used to be a visit to the doctor for a sore throat or a stitch was cash money and insurance was reserved for big stuff like a broken leg or something requiring a stay in the hospital.

Funny thing is the idea of keeping people well to save money has not really worked out. There has been a push to reduce testing frequency and numbers. Turns out testing every single person for cancer or colonoscopies for all is way more expensive than treating those who get sick.

I only know what I read but it makes sense on the surface. Here's one example:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...-overtreatment

[Biggd]

Health care costs were out of site before Obamacare. Obamacare hasn't slowed down the costs but more people have healthcare than ever before. I don't believe it should be scrapped but it needs changes.
Health care costs have been an ongoing problem for 20 some odd years now.
My wife has worked for the same company for 28 years and our health care options have steadily gone down hill in the past 20 years. Way before Obamacare.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Major

Regarding drug companies, I work in Kendall Square, where there is even more development than on 128. Our firm represents a lot of start up pharma companies. Be careful what you wish for. I don't fault drug companies one bit for profiting on the investments they make. These companies hire the world's brightest people to solve the most difficult of medical issues. (The reason why most of these companies have a huge presence in Kendall Square is that they want to be close to the talent.) For every drug that makes it, thousands of drugs don't, representing billions upon billions of dollars lost. If you would prefer lower costs for existing drugs, then you can expect a serious reduction in R&D.

I'll take that a step further.... I work for a company that does clinical trials for all the major drug companies. For every drug that hits the market there are likely hundreds if not thousands of failed trials that contribute to a single success. This represents an enormous investment of both time and money to get these things to market and work their way through the FDA approval process. Mind you the drug companies are not necessarily gouging people, why some drugs are way more expensive than others is mostly a result of the aforementioned process given the limited amount of time the drug companies have to recoup costs before they become eligible to become generics. Also not taken under consideration is how exotic the process is to manufacture them and the overall demand for them. The bottom line is it takes a lot to get them out there and the general public just seems to think this all should just be provided because they want it cheap and the drug companies are evil for wanting to make a buck or two.

Also another factor, even drugs that have made it into the market place some times have long term effects that are negative in nature not known at the time of release. This turns into massive class action lawsuits which the drug companies, doctors and even us - a third party clinical trial company have to defend, many time resulting in massive payouts. Keep in mind people this is not exact 100% science and while so many "miracle" drugs have been created - you cannot expect that every drug out there is going to be a home run. These are drugs for humans created by humans. That's not to say some compensation is not due but getting millions of dollars because your hair turned green isn't exactly an equitable solution yet many times that is exactly what happens.

Bottom line, many now a days are spoiled and want to pop a pill to address any and every ailment, pain or fill in the blank they have and expect that it will cost them little or nothing to do so with no side effects or risks. That is simply never going to happen.

The reduction in R&D is already happening we've seen a number of trials pulled not because of a lack of success but the over run of costs to keep them going where ultimately the bang for the buck isn't there. Sad considering it is the current climate that is making some of this stuff cost prohibitive to continue.

[Macavity]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

I'll take that a step further.... I work for a company that does clinical trials for all the major drug companies.

Bottom line, many now a days are spoiled and want to pop a pill to address any and every ailment, pain or fill in the blank they have and expect that it will cost them little or nothing to do so with no side effects or risks.

It's easy to say everyone is "pill happy," and especially so if it's a choice for you, but some people are stuck with meds that cost so much more on Medicare, it's a major expense.

Since you understand the industry, could you explain why a drug that's not cheap but somewhat affordable can increase in price many times over in just a year? It's hard to understand, as a consumer.

thanks,
mac

[FlyingScot]

One thing that makes both of these discussions complex is that we need to hold contradictory thoughts in our head. The pharma industry saves millions of people every year from cancer, heart disease, and other terrible ailments. But it also takes every opportunity it can to increase its profits by hiking drug prices.

Similarly, Obamacare has led to millions of additional people being insured. But it's not perfect.

I'm pretty sure that all of us would accept all statements above to be facts. But too many of us rush to judgement on one aspect of a situation, and then become blind to the others.

[Woody38]

Maximum GREED. Not to long ago a treatment of erythromycin (40 tablets) cost maybe $5.00 I couldn't believe it when a pharmacist recently told me the same today costs $400.00. He was amazed also. This antibiotic has been around for decades so why the huge increase. Seems there was about to be restraints placed on Pharma's. So they beat the rush by increasing the prices soon to beat the constraints.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by PeterG

One thing that makes both of these discussions complex is that we need to hold contradictory thoughts in our head. The pharma industry saves millions of people every year from cancer, heart disease, and other terrible ailments. But it also takes every opportunity it can to increase its profits by hiking drug prices.

Similarly, Obamacare has led to millions of additional people being insured. But it's not perfect.

I'm pretty sure that all of us would accept all statements above to be facts. But too many of us rush to judgement on one aspect of a situation, and then become blind to the others.

And Obamacare is unsustainable, another fact.

[Sunbeam lodge]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I agree, and we could start by reigning in the drug companies and their ridiculous price gouging. They are all going to get big tax breaks with this new lower corporate tax law. Do you think they are going to give the consumer a break by lowering their drug prices? I think not!
There are soooo many Bio Tech companies taking over big spaces along RT128 in Ma. Why is that? Because the drug industry is a cash cow!
And then you have these big greedy Hedge Fund firms buying up these drug companies that have developed life saving drugs and raising the prices on drugs that people can't live with out.
These Hedge Fund firms are the ones screwing everyone to keep their investors happy. They should outlaw all Hedge Funds or tax them to death! I could rant on but my blood pressure is rising. Where are my pills?

Add to this the fact that hedge fund managers are able to avoid high payroll taxes using the law they had their politicians pass that allows them to call their "wages" capital gains at the lower tax rate of 15% rather than the 39% rate they should pay on wages. The new Trump plan carries the same provision allowing them to escape high taxes that you and i will pay.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

Add to this the fact that hedge fund managers are able to avoid high payroll taxes using the law they had their politicians pass that allows them to call their "wages" capital gains at the lower tax rate of 15% rather than the 39% rate they should pay on wages. The new Trump plan carries the same provision allowing them to escape high taxes that you and i will pay.

I thought Trump had promised to change that part of the tax code so that Hedge Fund managers would pay at the regular rate like everyone else? Just another lie out of his mouth.

[lobstadanca]

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and hearing your perspectives. We will not be eligible for Medicare for another 3 years. There are only a few options available for us in the NH private insurance market:

Ambetter - researched and found numerous complaints
Harvard Pilgrim - most costly
Anthem Blue Cross - most affordable

Until our health care system is fixed, we have no option, but to keep our existing policy which will cost about $7000. more this year Hopefully, a better solution will be implemented by next year!

Wishing everyone good health

[Biggd]

This subject hits home for everyone esp. baby boomers who need it the most. I hope the Trump administration can turn it around but I have my doubts.
Society today is pill happy. There is a pill developed for everything and doctors are glade to prescribe them because they get kick backs. The drug companies get to advertise their drugs on TV now and people sit there watching their TV and say, I have those symptoms, I need those drugs. In most cases the side affects are worse than the symptom you are trying to cure.
I was being sarcastic when I said "where are my pills". I'm 63 years old and I'm not on any medication yet and I want to keep it that way as long as possible.

[noreast]

Though I do understand the R&D aspect and all the other cost involved with there business, Last I knew 9 of the top big 10 pharma's spent more on advertising than on R&D, also up till now there NET income for 2107 is approaching $100 billion for that same top ten. R&D, lawsuits, and all other forms of human BS are figured into to every pill we take. I'm not ready to volunteer to have a bake sale for them. If they focus and have success on the tasks at hand, the cash will pour into there pockets for the right reasons.

[noreast]

Also, I was paying $1800 a month for a sucky plan before I knew who Obama was, But he certainly didn't help.

[Woody38]

Back in the 80"s A friend of mine (Pfizer Rep) told me how much they spent on R&D the previous year. I told him that the Feds also gave them $860,000 for R&D. He said "you know that?" I did.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

[rsmlp]

Originally Posted by lobstadanca

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and hearing your perspectives. We will not be eligible for Medicare for another 3 years. There are only a few options available for us in the NH private insurance market:

Ambetter - researched and found numerous complaints
Harvard Pilgrim - most costly
Anthem Blue Cross - most affordable

Until our health care system is fixed, we have no option, but to keep our existing policy which will cost about $7000. more this year Hopefully, a better solution will be implemented by next year!

Wishing everyone good health

Don't hold your breath. Oh, the puns!

[The Real BigGuy]

If US subsidizes R&D, Why can I buy the same meds in Canada for 20 - 30% less?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ApS]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

If US subsidizes R&D, Why can I buy the same meds in Canada for 20 - 30% less?

I've been asking the same question for years, but only found "Opinion Editorials" (Op-Eds) on the subject.

My guesses are that:

1) Canada helps to fund Canada-Care through fossil-fuel sales to the US; so, American drivers are helping to finance Canada-Care at the gas pump.

2) Canada, with 10% of the US population, can still make major "bulk-purchases" of pharmaceuticals. (Think "wholesale").

3) Until a friend refused a prescription filled with a med from Bangladesh, I didn't know the extent of "other manufacturers" of pharmaceuticals. Just what Canada's pharmacies are selling is a big unknown.

4) Aetna advises they (really, their subscribers) are paying for surgeries deriving from "gender dysphoria". While such elective surgeries go back to the early 70s, their frequency has exploded within the last decade. A life-long regimen of drugs is required to accompany this elective surgery. (And to electively reverse it ) The VA pays for this elective surgery, too.

5) Along with such elective lifestyle choices, NPR reports we are also funding HIV/AIDS patients' drugs. Each patient costs $500,000 for their lifetime purchases of antiretroviral drugs.

6) "We have met the enemy—and it is us"...

.

[MAXUM]

I am by no means an industry expert. However I have seen first hand the money that is spent for R&D and it is NOT cheap. In fact I'll be the first to say that many of the clinical trials that we run go on for years in some cases decades to the tune of millions, tens of millions and even hundreds of millions of dollars per year.

Far as costs of these drugs goes.... everything is relative. If you are concerned about "greedy evil big pharma" better understand the supply chain before you start to lay the blame at the feet of the usual targets. Just like any commodity, these drugs are not sold directly by the drug companies to the consumer, there are a number of middle men that have their hands in the pie and all of them take their cut along the way. Much of the cost you pay at the counter is thanks to the middle men who always seem to get a pass. That said the costs of manufacturing these drugs and the regulations that the manufacturers must adhere to change so what may have cost $5.00 a per pill years ago now may cost significantly more even though the drug itself hasn't really changed. That cost increase can be everything from sourcing raw materials, methods of manufacture, having to keep extensive records of everything, specialized secure shipping, liability insurance, the list goes on and on and on. Ever consider that FDA regulations have something to do with that? You can bet they do and that gets passed right on to the consumer. This industry is VERY heavily regulated by the feds and we all know they care little about efficiencies.

Keep in mind as well most pharma companies do not manufacture the drugs in their portfolio, a third party does.

I am by no means trying to defend the pharma companies, like any other industry they are not all innocent all the time. However I think there are a lot of misconceptions about the industry as a whole and more so how much the feds have played a part in that. So when I see some blow hard politician lamenting the costs of drugs and using the pharma companies as a punching bag it's rather hypocritical considering a significant portion of the costs people pay are because of the federal guidelines the industry as a whole must adhere to. Who put those regulations in place? Oh yeah that very politician who "claims" to care about the little guy.

I might add now that the feds are running a significant portion of the health insurance market it has just compounded the situation and you see that in your ever increasing annual premiums and crappier coverage.

[Macavity]

It seems that there is immunity in numbers all along the supply chain. And not a lot of accountability by regulators, just accountability to them.

mac

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

If US subsidizes R&D, Why can I buy the same meds in Canada for 20 - 30% less?


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

Because they may not be the same meds.
Many countries, or regions have different specs for meds. A spec for a drug made for the US may not be the same spec for a drug made for EU or Japan for example.

[The Real BigGuy]

Obama care is sustainable if you didn’t have an administration and Republican Party doing everything in their power to insure it fails. If they have a better option, put in on the table or get the f out of the way!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[ITD]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Obama care is sustainable if you didn’t have an administration and Republican Party doing everything in their power to insure it fails. If they have a better option, put in on the table or get the f out of the way!


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

It's sustainable if the premiums go up $5k every year, who can afford that?

[Flylady]

Drug companies and insurance companies spend millions in supporting the campaigns of senators and congress just to make sure the politicians are beholding to them. Why do you think at the same time Obama care was put into place the government included an anti compete claus in drug cost...meaning that the government could not go out and shop for best pricing meds....

The ACA is broken because after passed the republican senate refused to maintain the plan as intended. They cut funding and created uncertainty in the insurance market. As I have read the original ACA plan was expected to stabilize in 5 years and cost of premium would level off as more people were i the plans. So now with the gutting of the plan we are all let holding a larger bag because the Senate and Congress lied. After 7 years of attacking the ACA and disabling it along the way they had absolutely nothing to offer.

But wait there is more......remember the social security you and your employer paid for all those years you worked......they plan on reducing your "entitlement" on this as well. They just can not keep their hands off of our money.

[tis]

I agree. Lobbyists are the worst thing that ever happened to this country. The politicians let them make most of their decisions for them.

[ApS]

Lobbyists are deep in The Swamp.

Originally Posted by Flylady

Drug companies and insurance companies spend millions in supporting the campaigns of senators and congress just to make sure the politicians are beholding to them. Why do you think at the same time Obama care was put into place the government included an anti compete claus in drug cost...meaning that the government could not go out and shop for best pricing meds....The ACA is broken because after passed the republican senate refused to maintain the plan as intended. They cut funding and created uncertainty in the insurance market. As I have read the original ACA plan was expected to stabilize in 5 years and cost of premium would level off as more people were i the plans. So now with the gutting of the plan we are all let holding a larger bag because the Senate and Congress lied. After 7 years of attacking the ACA and disabling it along the way they had absolutely nothing to offer. But wait there is more......remember the social security you and your employer paid for all those years you worked......they plan on reducing your "entitlement" on this as well. They just can not keep their hands off of our money.

Yesterday, I received a mailing from the respected "Judicial Watch". Their latest:

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch today announced it received two production of documents, 77 pages and 108 pages, from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) revealing the Obama IRS coordinated with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and the Obama White House Behavioral Sciences “Team” in a $5 million program to pressure Americans to sign up for Obamacare. The documents also contain inter-agency agreements between the IRS and the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) devised to circumvent potential legal prohibitions on unauthorized disclosure or inspection of taxpayer information collected by the IRS. The documents were produced under court order in an April 2017 Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit against the IRS and HHS filed after agencies failed to respond to November 2016 FOIA requests
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-...gal-questions/

[Seaplane Pilot]

The Democrats were responsible for this disaster, and shoved it firmly down the throats of he American citizens. At the same time, they exempted themselves. If it was so great, why didn’t they take it for themselves?

Now, since it is a complete failure and disaster, it’s all the fault of the Republicans! Typical Democratic finger pointing. Take no responsibility for your actions. What a joke!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

The Democrats were responsible for this disaster, and shoved it firmly down the throats of he American citizens. At the same time, they exempted themselves. If it was so great, why didn’t they take it for themselves?

Now, since it is a complete failure and disaster, it’s all the fault of the Republicans! Typical Democratic finger pointing. Take no responsibility for your actions. What a joke!

It would be funny if it weren't so damn disastrous.

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

The Democrats were responsible for this disaster, and shoved it firmly down the throats of he American citizens. At the same time, they exempted themselves. If it was so great, why didn’t they take it for themselves?

Now, since it is a complete failure and disaster, it’s all the fault of the Republicans! Typical Democratic finger pointing. Take no responsibility for your actions. What a joke!

And the cycle continues as Republicans do exactly what they criticized Democracts for, while Democrats follow in Republican footsteps. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Seems a fitting definition on our current state of affairs...

[Garcia]

Judicial Watch, and so many others like it, are a huge part of the problem with the ACA and the state of affairs in general. They present a very biased point of view under a self proclaimed heading of being non partisan. It is so easy today to surround ourselves with like minded viewpoints and to only hear things that support things we want to be true. My suggestion? Go out of your way to tune in to other, legitimate sources of information. If you read the New York Times or Washington Post, then be sure to see what the Wall Street Journal has to say. Are you a Fox News watcher? Then don’t forget to flip over to CNN.

What’s my refuge and what gives me hope for the future? Heading to the lake where I enter a different world where optimism overflows. If I could get our Congress to come visit me on the island for a weekend they would relax and see the way things can be and stop the incessant bickering and finger pointing that is the current state of affairs!

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Judicial Watch, and so many others like it, are a huge part of the problem with the ACA and the state of affairs in general. They present a very biased point of view under a self proclaimed heading of being non partisan. It is so easy today to surround ourselves with like minded viewpoints and to only hear things that support things we want to be true. My suggestion? Go out of your way to tune in to other, legitimate sources of information. If you read the New York Times or Washington Post, then be sure to see what the Wall Street Journal has to say. Are you a Fox News watcher? Then donÂ’t forget to flip over to CNN.

WhatÂ’s my refuge and what gives me hope for the future? Heading to the lake where I enter a different world where optimism overflows. If I could get our Congress to come visit me on the island for a weekend they would relax and see the way things can be and stop the incessant bickering and finger pointing that is the current state of affairs!

CNN a legitimate news source?

CNN on Friday corrected an erroneous report that Donald Trump Jr. had received advance notice from the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks about a trove of hacked documents that it planned to release during last yearÂ’s presidential campaign.

This is just the latest in a long line of false, misleading, or otherwise made up stores pushed and or published by not only CNN but the rest of the main stream media so why in the world would I bother to take anything they say is factual? Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to get straight up hard news reporting free of any spin which makes it very difficult for us, the voting public, to keep an eye on the very people we elect into office.

[Doobs41378]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

CNN a legitimate news source?



CNN on Friday corrected an erroneous report that Donald Trump Jr. had received advance notice from the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks about a trove of hacked documents that it planned to release during last yearÂ’s presidential campaign.



This is just the latest in a long line of false, misleading, or otherwise made up stores pushed and or published by not only CNN but the rest of the main stream media so why in the world would I bother to take anything they say is factual? Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to get straight up hard news reporting free of any spin which makes it very difficult for us, the voting public, to keep an eye on the very people we elect into office.

Just ask Brian Ross.


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[Garcia]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

CNN a legitimate news source?

CNN on Friday corrected an erroneous report that Donald Trump Jr. had received advance notice from the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks about a trove of hacked documents that it planned to release during last yearÂ’s presidential campaign.

This is just the latest in a long line of false, misleading, or otherwise made up stores pushed and or published by not only CNN but the rest of the main stream media so why in the world would I bother to take anything they say is factual? Unfortunately it's damn near impossible to get straight up hard news reporting free of any spin which makes it very difficult for us, the voting public, to keep an eye on the very people we elect into office.

Yes, I do believe CNN is a legitimate news source staffed by people who worry too much about breaking a story rather than slowing down and making sure it is accurate - common among all journalists. Mistakes are made and legitimate news sources take appropriate actions, hold people accountable, and make corrections which is what both ABC and CNN did. Do I think they are free of spin? No, which goes back to my earlier point of getting news from multiple sources all of whom approach news with their own biases and spin. I keep looking but haven't found that single source that simply presents hard news. How can there be such a source when simply deciding what is worth reporting and what isn't is putting spin on the news...

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Garcia

Yes, I do believe CNN is a legitimate news source staffed by people who worry too much about breaking a story rather than slowing down and making sure it is accurate - common among all journalists. Mistakes are made and legitimate news sources take appropriate actions, hold people accountable, and make corrections which is what both ABC and CNN did. Do I think they are free of spin? No, which goes back to my earlier point of getting news from multiple sources all of whom approach news with their own biases and spin. I keep looking but haven't found that single source that simply presents hard news. How can there be such a source when simply deciding what is worth reporting and what isn't is putting spin on the news...

Can I interest you in a bridge?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Can I interest you in a bridge?

CNN is only concerned about destroying Trump. CNN is broadcast in our gym, so I watch it most mornings. Every second of every day of every week is dedicated to tearing him down. Take last Saturday morning, for example. After his great speech on Friday night, I laughed out loud when I read the breaking news tagline -- Trump lied about black homeownership in America. Of all the things said by Trump during that great speech, CNN zeros in on a trivial, who cares, throwaway statement. I would respect the networks more if they just came out and said that they are trying to impeach Trump. It is clearly what they are trying to do.

[Garcia]

[QUOTE=Major;288578]

Originally Posted by Hillcountry

Can I interest you in a bridge? [/QUOTE

CNN is only concerned about destroying Trump. CNN is broadcast in our gym, so I watch it most mornings. Every second of every day of every week is dedicated to tearing him down. Take last Saturday morning, for example. After his great speech on Friday night, I laughed out loud when I read the breaking news tagline -- Trump lied about black homeownership in America. Of all the things said by Trump during that great speech, CNN zeros in on a trivial, who cares, throwaway statement. I would respect the networks more if they just came out and said that they are trying to impeach Trump. It is clearly what they are trying to do.

There is some truth in this, just like there is truth in Fox News doing everything in its power to destroy Democrats including President Obama and the Clintons (and no, I am not a fan of HRC - far from it!). Which is why, for me, I want to see the same news story presented by sources with markedly different spin on the same event. Fox News is a legitimate news source - with its own biases and spin built in, but I would no more get all my news solely from them than I would CNN.

[Biggd]

This thread really went off the rails! I'm sure I contributed to it.

[Flylady]

I too find that tuning into the opposing view networks helps me understand what the opposing views are seeing and how they interpret the information. Funny how some (including our President) are quick to jump on media mistakes even though quick apologies and corrections were made. However the same people are so quick to judge have no problem listening to the misinformation and lies coming from the President. He has yet to step back or apologize for any of the bad information he spreads.

In listening to Fox news the other night I found they spent a lot of air time on the Clinton e-mails......what I really do not understand is why do so many people care about a person who has not held a public position in almost 6 years? Going back 7 or 8 years will accomplish what? How will that make our and our children's lives better in the future?

[Biggd]

My dad always said, "today is the first day of the rest of your life". Try and be better starting today.

[Hillcountry]

Originally Posted by Flylady

I too find that tuning into the opposing view networks helps me understand what the opposing views are seeing and how they interpret the information. Funny how some (including our President) are quick to jump on media mistakes even though quick apologies and corrections were made. However the same people are so quick to judge have no problem listening to the misinformation and lies coming from the President. He has yet to step back or apologize for any of the bad information he spreads.

In listening to Fox news the other night I found they spent a lot of air time on the Clinton e-mails......what I really do not understand is why do so many people care about a person who has not held a public position in almost 6 years? Going back 7 or 8 years will accomplish what? How will that make our and our children's lives better in the future?

The reason is because of the Washington swamp’s double standard of justice for career, criminal, politicians. Many in gov’t conspired to make sure that not only, HRC was not penalized for her crimes, but for assuring that she become president...which failed miserably. It’s all coming out how the deep state did it’s dirty work.
Are you also happy that government perverts that committed abuse of women through the years also used TAXPAYER’S money to pay them to be quiet? (to the tune of 17 million)
Yes, this thread got derailed but some things just cannot go unchallenged.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Biggd

This thread really went off the rails! I'm sure I contributed to it.

You and me both! Sorry Don!

[Flylady]

Not that I follow all of the Washington BS...but I guess I must have missed the crimes that HRC was charged with or convicted of......no different that the current President...not charged or convicted so in my eyes both are on the same page.

As for the current "Me Too" movement its about time......and the good ole boys in the House and Congress using taxpayers money to keep victims silent is a disgrace to every woman in this country....and each of them who paid for silence should be relieved of their seat.

So how will focusing on investigating past politicians help our current and future economic and national welfare?

[noreast]

Someone mentioned lobbyist's, BINGO, if either party had any interest at all in getting the money out of politics they'd win in a landslide. Not the north Korean land slide like Trump said he won by, but a real one. The only real job of an elected official now is to vote for there donors. If the money were pouring into the republicans to be pro choice, Roy Moore would come out today and say God told him that the population was out of control and the dummies down south would fall in line. We're to dumb to survive I fear.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by swnoel

Who's refusing it... the VA?

When I had an eye infection that needed regular care, I thought it best to make my very-first connection to coordinate with VA hospitals for the long drive to NH.

In 2013, their reply disclosed only two conditions under which the VA would handle an infirmity:

1) Rape
2) Stationed in Afghanistan or Iraq



More.

Originally Posted by Flylady

Not that I follow all of the Washington BS...but I guess I must have missed the crimes that HRC was charged with or convicted of......no different that the current President...not charged or convicted so in my eyes both are on the same page. As for the current "Me Too" movement its about time......and the good ole boys in the House and Congress using taxpayers money to keep victims silent is a disgrace to every woman in this country....and each of them who paid for silence should be relieved of their seat.

The "Washington BS" was asphyxiated this past summer, when it was revealed that the FBI had demoted leading agents who both exonerated HRC and attempted a DJT coup. IF there were any LSM news of last summer's dismissals, they didn't appear until this month!

Strzok and Page

Originally Posted by Flylady

So how will focusing on investigating past politicians help our current and future economic and national welfare?

Past politicians have "slush funds" masquerading as "Foundations". This corruption is fading from the news, but only since last year's election.

Pity the LIV.

[fatlazyless]

Starting in 2018, after the G.O.P. Tax Cut & Reform Bill is passed, people in the United States who attend an exercise class will get hit with a five dollar/hour exercise tax because they are wasting their valuable energy according to Donald Trump.

Trump believes the human body is like a battery, with a finite amount of energy, which exercise only depletes. So he doesn't work out.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by ApS

The "Washington BS" was asphyxiated this past summer, when it was revealed that the FBI had demoted leading agents who both exonerated HRC and attempted a DJT coup. IF there were any LSM news of last summer's dismissals, they didn't appear until this month!

Strzok and Page

Past politicians have "slush funds" masquerading as "Foundations". This corruption is fading from the news, but only since last year's election.

Pity the LIV.

(Low Information Voter).

Strzok was escorted from the FBI building in June, and has since lost his security clearance, and by August was fired from the FBI. His pension is in peril, and a GoFundMe effort has raised ½-million dollars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EfX...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xC5hBQtjks

Strzok's FBI girl friend/confidant, Lisa Page, also has been discredited, and has retired.