Laconia Daily Sun Letter

[sa meredith]

This post is in no way intended to be sarcastic, or funny.
Just a thought...
It's weird how some issues bother certain people to the Nth degree, and others could care less.
And then, on different subjects, the same people flip flop. The indifferent poeple become the passionate, and the passionate become the indifferent.

As I sit here reading this thread, I wonder why I've never thrown my hat in the ring in this debate. It indeed has been good fun to read over the past 1.5 years or so, but I guess I never truly cared one way or the other.
Speed limit/ No speed limit...either way, fine by me. (of course our boat can't reach much more than 50/52, so that's probably it).

But let someone say something in the restaurant thread that I disagree with, and I'll be out front leading the charge. And loving the confrontation (in good fun, of course).

Just human nature I guess. One man's garbage is another man's treasure...and all that good stuff.
OK, I'm done.

[NoRegrets]

Thanks for the reply Lakegeezer. I am not trying to be depressing nor do I consider myself to be a pessimistic person. I responded to FLL’s off the cuff celebration dance. If my response sounded depressing it is because we as a country are in a very poor position at this current time in history. Unemployment and the devaluation of our assets on the world market really SUCK!

Issues need to get to a tipping point before action is planned and executed. I do believe we can address issues and fix problems. When you stated “…the grass wasn’t greener from where we came from – now what?” You are so right to point out that things were good in previous administrations. I now believe we have hit the tipping point and we are going to finally get back to fundamentals and start to address real issues.

We live in a society where politicians run the country and have effectively grown the government to a point where it is now taking so much away from the producers that many are taking note. We have allowed regulations to be ignored causing a world wide financial crisis. We have to shoulder the blame. Shame on us if we don’t insure it can’t happen again. I have been in contact with my rep and 2 senators as have many others with suggestions and they are indicating that they are working hard to “fix” problems. We will have to wait to see what they really do.

To get back to the SL issue - the politics seem to have been manipulated and the SL (IMO) was a sugar pill trying to cure a different “bonehead” problem.

Thanks for your reply. I take responsibility for what I write.

[Kracken]

The speed limit threads are some of the most popular threads on this site. The debate has been wildly entertaining, heated and passionate on both sides, but it should come with a warning: For entertainment purposes only.

Both the supporters and the opponents have given facts to support their sides. It would have been fantastic if the members of winnipesaukee.com could have reached a compromise and then sent it to Concord. After all, four thousand plus agreeing on the speed limit would certainly influence an elected official. Unfortunately we didn’t even come close.

I believe the people of New Hampshire should decide the fate of speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee. Unfortunately that is never going to happen. Most people think we live in a democracy, well we really don’t. We live in a republic and there is a very big difference. In a republic, well funded small groups can lobby their representatives and persuade them to passing or blocking legislation. They can generate propaganda and get public support by misrepresenting the facts. They can create fake groups and solicit donations to further their cause.

Does anybody think it odd that since House Bill 847 passed we have heard nothing from Winnfabs? Their website has not been updated since January 30, 2008. Winnfabs claims to be “a group of citizens who love Lake Winnipesaukee and who want to ensure safe family boating and preserve the beauty and serenity of the lake for present and future generations.” Does their silence mean they believe the lake is now safe? If they were not simply a special interest group created for the sole purpose of getting a speed limit passed wouldn’t they still be actively promoting safe boating practices? I have a strong feeling we will once again be hearing from the Winnfabs. They will be looking for donations to help champion their cause, to make the speed limit permanent.

I am against small groups of special interest people imposing their will upon everyone. I am against people who want to censor those with opposing views. If the majority of people in this state wanted the speed limit while I would still disagree with it, I could accept it. When a law is passed by making deals with legislators that becomes a concern for everyone.

Let’s look at the letter Mr. Chase wrote to the Sun. He states his opinion as he stated it many times here. I have no problem with that. What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.

The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

[SIKSUKR]

Originally Posted by Kracken

What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.
.

Excellent post.This paragraph sounds very similar to recent political events,does it not?A broad stroke of the brush to anyone that disagrees with them.

[NoRegrets]

Originally Posted by Kracken

.....The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

Thank you sir, well said. To add an opinion to this portion of your post I believe the silent majority is not focused on this recreational issue. They are working on making a living and the SL impacts a only a small population of a privileged few that value this sport. It doesn't make it right but it is somewhat unrealistic to expect non-boaters from winni stop what they are doing to rally to this cause. I do hope the political climate is changing or about to change and the small special interest groups get exposed in an unbiased media. (One can dream!).

The other point I copied about the acknowledgement of others with a wave. In the seventies all bikes waved at passing bikers. Today only the old veterans do. I think the fast pace has had a negative impact on the human aspects of communication.

[DoTheMath]

Throughout my adult life I have had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast, slow, etc... I literally grew up "summering" on this lake and have watched it change quite a bit over my 40 yrs, some for the better - and some, admittedly not. (I miss Anderson's Bakery in Ctr. Harbor, they had the best donuts! And as a kid, walking to Robbins General Store for candy or an ice cream out of the cooler). Anyway, I digress... I honestly think the "most fun" boat I / we had growing up was a 13' Whaler with a 40hp 2S Merc on it. We bought it new from Browns, it came with "manual" trim and I installed a power trim kit on it, it ran 42-44mph on it's best day in perfect conditions. At WOT that boat felt like it was going 80mph - you were 12" off the water and it was a blast! I scared a lot of friends that weren't "boat people" in that thing - great boat! Jumping up to a 42' Outerlimits with 1,700hp, at 100mph - it feels like you are sitting in a lazyboy with a big fan blowing wind in your face. It's all relative to the size and conditions at the time you are out. At 65mph, that same boat feels like it's "loafing" along, the engines are running smooth and easy and you barely feel the waves you are crossing, it is a very comfortable and controlled ride. OCD has mentioned this numerous times in previous posts, the boats are DESIGNED to perform VERY well and very controlled at the speeds that they achieve. Imagine doing 65mph in a 13' Whaler - as much as I would love to try it, given an open body of water with no boat traffic and flat and calm conditions, I would never dream of doing it on Winni, ever!

It's funny how most SL proponents seem to forget something very important - and I have said this over and over - guns don't kill people, people kill people! We always read about "Captain Bonehead" on here - note, no one ever refers to the boat itself, it is always the operator! "This guy on a jet ski cut in front of me yesterday, what a jerk" or "I had this guy in a bowrider, with 9 people on board nail it coming out of the channel, he was only 25' from me". Now, in any case of negligence or "operator" error - has it been the boats fault that what happened - happened!? Did "the boat" decide to go against the operator and turn itself in front of you, cutting you off and breaking the 150' rule!? Did "the boat" decide to slow to a speed that let up a huge wake and crashed your boat against your dock - damaging both - while the operator yelled at it telling it not to!? To quote Forrest Gump "stupid is as stupid does" - and if you look at the last (and ONLY) two significant accidents to occur on the lake in the last 10+ years, both were operator error, period! (And at least one so far was proven to have taken place UNDER 30mph!) Call it what you will, bad judgment, driver impaired, weather conditions, etc... it was plain and simple the operator that was responsible, and always is. I know plenty of people on this lake that own boats that will run fast - very fast, and not a SINGLE one of them has been involved in an incident of any kind that would be construed as negative. I have seen over the period that the SL has become an issue, an exponential number of "family boats", cruisers and Waverunners involved in the most unbelievably dumb, careless and unsafe incidents! The SL has had nothing to do with any perceived changes in the way the lake was this summer, chalk it up to the economy and sheer coincidence. BTW - I still saw more than my fair share of "captain boneheads" on the lake this summer, I was up less than all prior summers, and NONE were driving a performance boat! None involved going really fast either, it was mostly the 150' rule and the right of way rule that were the culprit. Tubing / skiing in the most foolish locations - traffic-laden, etc... - and just not paying attention in general.

Face it people - speed is not the enemy here, and it never has been but some people like to think that the performance boat crowd is. That our "Golden Pond" has become a playground for all they despise - gone are the birch-bark canoes - replaced with loud and "unsafe" speed boats. How about gone are the responsible owner / operators ACTING responsibly! You are responsible for your own actions, man-up and act like you are! There is plenty of water for all to enjoy, but we need to be responsible for our actions - on and off the water! I can assure you, I can promise you and prove to you that a 20' bowrider at 50mph can be far more dangerous than a 38' performance boat at the same speed.

Sure, there are times that I wish this lake was the lake I knew when I was a kid, less populated and developed, but at the same time - I love the lake today! My 4 1/2 year old son also loves the lake, being out on the boat, visiting friends and playing in the water. You know, "he-said - she-said, he-did - she-did" is getting old and moving us no where fast! Let's figure it out and make it work people, so generations to come can enjoy it all too...

Mark

[BroadHopper]

I agree with DoTheMath. I, my Dad and my Grandfather lived on the lake since birth. We all feel the same way as Dothemath posted.

It is just that those people who have not lived the lake like we do that just don't get it. They come from other parts of the country and expect everything to be like the movie 'On Golden Pond'. If they want that atmosphere then they should look elsewhere. Winnipesaukee is Winnipesaukee. I unique lake with a unique past. Why change it?
Winnipesaukee have never been 'On Golden Pond'.

[Newbiesaukee]

I really do not care about the speed limit controversy, the max I go is about 35 and I try to avoid dealing with or being Captain B. However, as an avid reader of the LDS letter page, I find the distortions in this letter are about the same as most of those in letters touching on almost any subject that people feel strongly about. People believe what they want to believe; it is "true" if it agrees with their own thoughts and a "lie" if it doesn't. There, unfortunately does not seem to be any middle ground. But isn't that what free speech allows us to do? Our responsibility is to separate the real truth from the cr*p. Not an easy task in these difficult times.

[Airwaves]

Finally a letter in the LDS calling into question what lake Mr. Weeks and Mr. Chase were on when they wrote about the boating season this summer.

I have to wonder how the LDS comes up wiht the headlines they put on these letters. Mr. Stewart, author of today's letter, mentioned in passing (I took it as sarcasm) about canoe fees to pay for the increased number of rescues of bonehead paddlers and lo and behold it's the headline of the letter!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I agree with DoTheMath. I, my Dad and my Grandfather lived on the lake since birth. We all feel the same way as Dothemath posted.

It is just that those people who have not lived the lake like we do that just don't get it. They come from other parts of the country and expect everything to be like the movie 'On Golden Pond'. If they want that atmosphere then they should look elsewhere. Winnipesaukee is Winnipesaukee. I unique lake with a unique past. Why change it?
Winnipesaukee have never been 'On Golden Pond'.

Funny you mention the movie... On Golden Pond had quite a few safe passage violations (at least 4) captured on film. Not sure when the Safe Passage law was enacted though, so the stuff shown may have been prefectly legal at the time.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

"...I agree with DoTheMath. I, my Dad and my Grandfather lived on the lake since birth..."

1) I'd give you "double-points" if your progenitors were Native-Americans, but even they arrived from "somewhere else".

2) It pains me to hear my elderly Dad speak sometimes:

"There should be an airport—in there"
"There should be a golf course—over there."

This state's natural beauty needs to be cut down, built up, and an American flag posted over it?
.
.
3) Your New Hampshire Grandfather (and mine) were far less conscious of the importance New Hampshire's natural scenery, forests, lake quality and wildlife has to residents and to tourists.

Neither of our Grandfathers likely objected to the despoiling of New Hampshire scenery—even to the point that an organization had to be formed in our Grandfathers' day. What conditions caused NH citizens to respond to NH's despoiling?

Loggers had burned "slash" from slopes on the White Mountains that blocked visibility on the streets of Boston!

4) Back then, remember, it was not uncommon to shoot Loons—for sport!

Until genetic engineering can breed Loons with fluorescent-orange plumage, well...the "enlightened concerns of Today" means we need to live with sane speeds on the Big Lake.

Speeds we can live with.
.
.
IMO
.
.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Acres per Second

1) I'd give you "double-points" if your progenitors were Native-Americans, but even they arrived from "somewhere else".
.

Okay so I am Iroquis and not Abenaki. My ancestors arrive from Adirondocks. Maybe EVERYONE should go home and leave the lake be????

[onlywinni]

No offense taken here...

I was being a wise guy in the first place...

[fatlazyless]

Another concerned citizen, one from the Republican town of Wolfeboro of all places, wrote to the LaDaSun last Friday, I think, with a straight foward and intelligent letter supporting the speed limits and supporting WinnFabs. Will go search the kitchen trash basket for that letter.........later......must have been a Democratic albatross or something?.......

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Darn, I was going to copy/paste that letter to the editor from Friday's paper but the way the Laconia Daily Sun puts their paper "online", it cuts off the bottom of every page and that letter is at or near the bottom so part of is missing. I wouldn't want to paste part of it here and be accused of improper editing.

Anyone have the actual paper and can transcribe it into a post here?

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Originally Posted by Wolfeboro_Baja

Darn, I was going to copy/paste that letter to the editor from Friday's paper but the way the Laconia Daily Sun puts their paper "online", it cuts off the bottom of every page and that letter is at or near the bottom so part of is missing. I wouldn't want to paste part of it here and be accused of improper editing.

Anyone have the actual paper and can transcribe it into a post here?

Here's a copy/paste from page 4 of Friday's Laconia Daily Sun
Laconia Daily Sun - Friday Sept. 25, 2009


East side of the lake supports 45/25 boat speed limit as well

To the editor,
Living on the east side of Lake Winnipesaukee,
I seldom see a copy of
your fine newspaper. I was fortunate
to pick up the September 17 issue and
was pleased to see the letter from Mr.
Jack Weeks of Meredith. His observation
that there was much more family
boating activity (kayaks, canoes,
small runabouts, etc) on the lake this
summer certainly applies to the east
side of the lake as well as the west
side. The general feeling that the lake
is a much safer place with the 45/25
mile speed limit in place is shared by
all that I have talked to over here.
His plea to make the 45/25 mile an
hour speed limits permanent is fully
supported by most of us on this side
of the lake. We ask that all of you who
support Mr. Week’s views to write
to your legislators asking that they
make the law permanent.
To the best of my knowledge, Mr.
Weeks has not been associated with
WinnFABS (Winnipesaukee Family
Alliance for Boating Safety), so we are
most delighted to know that he supports
our efforts financially and with
his writing.
Those readers who would like to
support WinnFABS financially or
would prefer to have WinnFABS forward
their letters to their legislators,
can contact WinnFABS at PO Box
1341. Meredith, NH 03253.
name redacted
Wolfeboro

---------

for a different point of view see next post

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Do the Math's post #62 in this thread appeared in the Laconia Daily Sun today, Tuesday September 29, 2009. Thanks DtM. Here's a copy/paste.

From Laconia Daily Sun page 5, Laconia Daily Sun Tuesday September 29, 2009

Face it people, boat speed is not the enemy & never has been

To the editor,
Throughout my adult life I have
had all kinds of boats, big, small, fast,
slow, etc. I literally grew up “summering”
on Lake Winnipesaukee; I am the
third generation of my family to do
so, and have watched it change quite
a bit over my 40 years, changes that
reflect not only improvements to the
lake and it’s surrounding areas but
some, admittedly, I don’t fully agree
with. For example, I miss Anderson’s
Bakery in Center Harbor, they had
the best donuts! And as a kid, walking
to Robbins General Store for candy
or an ice cream out of the cooler. And
most of all, EVERYONE waved at
each other — what ever happened to
the “original” wave when passing
your fellow boater? Anyway, I digress.
I honestly think the “most fun” boat
I/ we had growing up was a 13-foot
Whaler with a 40 hp 2S Merc on it. We
bought it new from Browns, and once
dialed-in correctly would run 42-44-
mph on it’s best day, in perfect conditions.
At WOT that boat felt like it was
going 80-mph — you were 12-inches
off the water and it was a blast! I
scared a lot of friends that
weren’t “boat people” in that thing
— great boat! Now, fast-forward —
jumping up to a 42-foot
Outerlimits with 1,700 hp, at 100-
mph — it feels like you are sitting in
an easy-chair with a big fan blowing
wind in your face. It’s all relative to
the size and conditions at the time
you are out. At 65-mph, that same
boat feels like it’s “loafing” along, the
engines are running smooth and easy
and you barely feel the waves you are
crossing, it is a very comfortable and
controlled ride.
As another WInnipesaukee Forum
member has mentioned numerous
times in previous posts, these boats are
DESIGNED to perform VERY well and
very controlled at the speeds that they
achieve. Imagine doing 65-mph in a
13-foot Whaler — as much as I would
love to try it, given an open body of
water with no boat traffic and flat and
calm conditions, I would never dream of
doing it on Winni, ever!
It’s funny how most speed Limit
proponents seem to forget something
very important — and I have said
this over and over — guns don’t kill
people, people kill people! We always
read about “Captain Bonehead” on the
forum — note, no one ever refers to
the boat itself, it is always the operator!
“This guy on a jet ski cut in front
of me yesterday, what a jerk” or “I
had this guy in a bowrider, with nine
people on board nail it coming out of
the channel, he was only 25-feet from
me”. Now, in any case of negligence or
“operator” error has it been the boats
fault that what happened, happened!?
Did “the boat” decide to go against
the operator and turn itself in front of
you, cutting you off and breaking the
150-foot rule!? Did “the boat” decide
to slow to a speed that let up a huge
wake and crash your boat against
your dock — damaging both — while
the operator yelled at it telling it not
to? To quote Forrest Gump: “stupid is
as stupid does”, and if you look at the
last (and ONLY)
two significant accidents to occur on
the lake over the previous 10+ years,
extenuating circumstances not withstanding,
both point to operator error,
period! (And at least one so far was
proven to have taken place UNDER
30-mph!).
Call it what you will, bad judgment,
driver impaired, weather conditions,
etc., at the end of the day, it is the
operator that is responsible, always.
I know plenty of people on this lake
who own boats that will run fast, very
fast, and not a SINGLE one of them
has been involved in an incident of
any kind that would be construed as
negative. I have seen over the period
that the speed limit has become an
issue, an exponential number of
“family boats”, cruisers and waverunners
involved in the most unbelievably
dumb, careless and unsafe incidents!
The speed limite has had nothing to
do with any perceived changes in the
way the lake was this summer, chalk
it up to the economy and sheer coincidence.
Incidentally, I still saw more
than my fair share of “captain boneheads”
on the lake this summer and
I was up less than all prior summers,
oh, and NONE were driving a performance
boat! None involved going
really fast either, it was mostly the
150-foot rule and the right of way
rule that were the culprit, and tubing/
skiing in the most foolish locations -
traffic-laden, etc., and just not paying
general attention.
Face it people, speed is not the
enemy here, and it never has been,
but some people like to think that
the performance boat crowd is — that
our “Golden Pond” has become a playground
for all they despise. Gone are
the birch-bark canoes, replaced with
loud and “unsafe” speed boats. How
about gone are the responsible owner/
operators ACTING responsibly! You
are responsible for your own actions;
man-up and act like you are!
There is plenty of water for all to
enjoy, but we need to be responsible
for your actions, on and off the water! I
can assure you, I can promise you and
prove to you that a 20-foot bowrider
at 50-mph can be far more dangerous
than a 38-foot performance boat at
the same speed.
Sure, there are times that I wish this
lake was the lake I knew when I was
a kid, less populated and developed,
but at the same time, I love the lake
today! My 4 1/2-year-old son also loves
the lake, being out on the boat, visiting
friends and playing in the water.
You know, “he-said, she-said, he-did,
she-did” is getting old and moving us
no where fast! Let’s figure it out and
make it work people, so future generations
to come can enjoy it all too.
name redacted
Acton, Mass.

[Yosemite Sam]

If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

If you want past publications of the Laconia Daily Sun, all you have to do is change the date of the address that you put in the address bar of you browser. Some people who post on forums will type in a different name for the address and then hyperlink it to the correct URL.
Example; http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2009/9/29L.pdf will take you to the 2009/9/29 issue of the paper. If you change the date in the address to 2008/9/29L it will take you to the 2008 issue. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/Lacon...2008/9/29L.pdf

Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

Nope, not affiliated with any Newspaper.

You can do the same thing to the Conway Daily Sun.
Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/29.pdf

Now change the date to 2009/9/28. Example: http://www.laconiadailysun.com/pdf/2009/9/28.pdf

Notice that the address is almost like the LDS.

You can right click on any address and then click on properties to get the exact URL. Then you can copy that address to your browser address bar and go to that website.

If someone types in something other than the exact URL, you can right click the name and go to properties to copy the address.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Do we have the pleasure of welcoming a representative of the LDS? If so, I love the fact that the online version reads in PDF scroll mode. It makes it seem like the real thing.

Actually the scrolling function can be setup to work with any Adobe file by changing how the default layout is setup.

To change the default layout in Adobe Reader, open Adobe Reader and go to the tool bar and do the following:

1. Choose Edit > Preferences.
2. Under Categories, select Page Display.
3. Open the Page Layout menu and choose either Automatic, Single Page, Single Page Continuous, Two-Up, or Two-Up Continuous. (I prefer Single Page Continuous)
4. Click OK after you have selected your page Layout.

These changes will become effective the next time you open an Adobe file.

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by Weekend Pundit

I think the real reason 'peace and harmony' have appeared has little to do with the speed limit. Boat traffic in general is down. Ask anyone at the marinas, the gas docks, and the boat ramps, or ask the Marine Patrol. For the second season in a row boat traffic is down. This year there have been a large number of unrented slips, something I've never seen before. Quite a few of my friends ended up trailering their boats rather than renting slips. They didn't go out onto the lake nearly as often as they have in the past.

You bet WP, most of us agree 100% with that. Hopefully, next year will provide a much better boating season.

[onlywinni]

I wish Mr. Weeks and his cronies would just admit, their real agenda is to:

Eliminate Performance Boats from Winnipesaukee

If they truly cared about Safety a Safe Passage Law is all that is needed. If a performance boat or any vessel is traveling at an unsafe speed for the conditions then the MP have the ability to cite someone.

In any event I have news for Mr. Weeks and his cronies...

Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too


In case people forget..performance boats have been a part of Winni since the early days...

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/R...story-1926.htm

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

I wish Mr. Weeks and his cronies would just admit, their real agenda is to:

Eliminate Performance Boats from Winnipesaukee

If they truly cared about Safety a Safe Passage Law is all that is needed. If a performance boat or any vessel is traveling at an unsafe speed for the conditions then the MP have the ability to cite someone.

In any event I have news for Mr. Weeks and his cronies...

Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too


In case people forget..performance boats have been a part of Winni since the early days...

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/R...story-1926.htm

I couldn't agree more.

It is clear and has even been stated by some SL supporters that they do not have an actual problem with speed but with other issues such as noise.

They are using this as a front to move their agenda. It is only matter of time before they start on limits on Horsepower, then "size" of the boat all together. This way to target not only performance boats but cruisers as well.

A shame to say the least.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by onlywinni

Performance Boats and their captains are not going anywhere...this is our lake too

True, I'm not going anywhere; as far as I'm concerned, this lake is still the best place to go boating, speed limits or no speed limits. I'll apologize now to anyone who is disturbed by the noise of my boat but remember, my Baja is legal.

Of course, if they're just disturbed, that's they're problem!

Sam, I agree; the first paragraph is all that's needed for the Marine Patrol. I wonder, if the MP could speak their mind publicly, what their position would be?

[VtSteve]

if anyone's read through the buildup of this issue from way back in 2002. You would think that with all the media articles written since then, that the Littlefield accident would have left some fresh memories for people. Perhaps not, since the vast majority of facts from that case are never spoken about, yet it continues to be the fuel for the fire even now.

Facts that are not spoken of.

1) Littlefield was seen by many witnesses at The Meredith Town Docks
He was seen dancing around, by himself, eyes closed.

2) Littlefield was seen at the docks in his boat, fumbling around before leaving.

3) Several witnesses testified at trial that Littlefield had slurred his speech, and was visibly impaired.

4) There were even questions about the victim's stern light, something he had sought to replace according to a marina employee.

5) Littlefield was not convicted of BUI, since he was AWOL for about 48 hours, rendering a blood test useless.

6) The bar that Littlefield was drunk dancing in, and left from, that fateful night, has a direct link to That organization that promotes the SL passage.

7) Littlefield's insurance company disallowed the claims, because "The company said its coverage is barred, however, because it excludes criminal acts. The policy excludes coverage for "any loss, damage or liability willfully, intentionally or criminally caused or incurred by an insured person.''"

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Kracken

The speed limit threads are some of the most popular threads on this site. The debate has been wildly entertaining, heated and passionate on both sides, but it should come with a warning: For entertainment purposes only.

Both the supporters and the opponents have given facts to support their sides. It would have been fantastic if the members of winnipesaukee.com could have reached a compromise and then sent it to Concord. After all, four thousand plus agreeing on the speed limit would certainly influence an elected official. Unfortunately we didn’t even come close.

I believe the people of New Hampshire should decide the fate of speed limits on Lake Winnipesaukee. Unfortunately that is never going to happen. Most people think we live in a democracy, well we really don’t. We live in a republic and there is a very big difference. In a republic, well funded small groups can lobby their representatives and persuade them to passing or blocking legislation. They can generate propaganda and get public support by misrepresenting the facts. They can create fake groups and solicit donations to further their cause.

Does anybody think it odd that since House Bill 847 passed we have heard nothing from Winnfabs? Their website has not been updated since January 30, 2008. Winnfabs claims to be “a group of citizens who love Lake Winnipesaukee and who want to ensure safe family boating and preserve the beauty and serenity of the lake for present and future generations.” Does their silence mean they believe the lake is now safe? If they were not simply a special interest group created for the sole purpose of getting a speed limit passed wouldn’t they still be actively promoting safe boating practices? I have a strong feeling we will once again be hearing from the Winnfabs. They will be looking for donations to help champion their cause, to make the speed limit permanent.

I am against small groups of special interest people imposing their will upon everyone. I am against people who want to censor those with opposing views. If the majority of people in this state wanted the speed limit while I would still disagree with it, I could accept it. When a law is passed by making deals with legislators that becomes a concern for everyone.

Let’s look at the letter Mr. Chase wrote to the Sun. He states his opinion as he stated it many times here. I have no problem with that. What is reprehensible is his attempt to silence his opposition (he tried that here too). He actually urges the paper not print any opposing views without carefully checking out the background of the author. Well who is checking on you Mr. Chase? He also represents all who oppose the speed limits as outlaws, liars and cowboys. For those of you who support the speed limit, you can’t possibly want to be identified with this.

The most discouraging aspect of the speed limit debate is the silence from the majority. I understand that the law doesn’t affect most people and it is easy to stay out of the way. I not only understand, I was one of you until 3 months ago.

The Lake has changed, and not for the better. Not to long ago on our lake every boater waved and smiled to every other boater. There was a bond among boaters, a bond that transcended what type of boat it was, a belief that more things drew us together than pulled us apart. That is the Lake Winnipesaukee I want to return to.

Could you please submit this to the Laconia Sun? This is excellent! You eloquently stated what many feel here and what many many friends of mine feel.

I'm serious when I say this but I NEVER come across anyone in the Lakes Region that supports the Speed Limit. I swear to god I am not lying. I am in the lakes region all summer long, on my boat, in restaurants, arcades, gas docks, stores, friends houses. Literally hundreds of places and hundreds of people. Some are friends some are acquaintances, some are total strangers. I never ever ever come across any supporters? Why is this? Try it for yourself. Randomly figure out ways to work it into conversations with people around the lake. Waiters, waitresses, gas dock attendants, neighbors. The key here is to not give away your position. Just say something like. "Is there a Speed Limit on the lake?" Then see their reaction. Most roll their eyes. Then engage in conversation and you'll quickly find out NOBODY supports it. I'm not lying, I did this a lot this summer and I continue to do it. It's sort of my unofficial poll. I never reveal my feelings on the matter I just hmph, shrug my shoulders and wink at my wife. She has been keeping track of what I do and when I do it. She concurs although she doesn't care one way or the other. She won't even drive the boat.

Note: I never tried this on Bear Island

[VitaBene]

Here is another SL letter. Only the name is redacted. Sorry for the formatting of these letters- I use a full version of Acrobat that allows copying but it can't be manipulated.

Boat speed limit supporters have no data to back up their claims
To the editor,
As I was sitting at the Meredith
town docks reading Mr. Weeks’ eloquent
letter to editor concerning his
dramatic support for the speed limit
law on Lake Winnipesaukee, a few
things came to mind.
Mr. Weeks attributes the reduced
boating activity on our big lake to the
success of the new limits in effect. However,
reports in all local papers, not to
mention statements from the Marine
Patrol and marina owners, all stated
that boat traffic was way down from
normal this summer, not only on Lake
Winnipesaukee, which is the only lake
affected by the speed limits but the
entire Lakes Region — not very surprising
given the dramatic recession
we’ve had since last year, and the poor
weather in the Lakes Region during
June and July and parts of August.
The economy has battered people’s
retirement accounts, home values,
and the unemployment rate has risen
to a two-decade high. Not exactly the
environment one would expect a lake
area to thrive in and certainly not
due to the new speed limit law, a law
the NH Marine Patrol testified was
unnecessary to begin with.
What really surprised me the most
was Mr. Weeks statement that, “WE
FINALLY HAD A SUMMER WITHOUT
A HIGH-SPEED TRAGEDY”.
This made me wonder, when was
the last time a high speed tragedy
occurred on Lake Winnipesaukee?
New Hampshire Marine Patrol accident
statistics for Lake Winnipesaukee
do not list a “high speed tragedy”
in recent memory so how is it that we
“Finally had a summer without one”?
Accident statistics do not show any
boat accident and certainly no fatal
accidents where speed was attributed
as the cause on Lake Winnipesaukee
over the past decade or more.
As to his praise for the Marine
Patrol, it very well is deserved since
their budgets are not thriving in this
economy. But I feel the praise was
misplaced.
The Marine Patrol director is on the
record at least twice, in not supporting
the speed limit provision of the
current law. His reasoning? “Speeding
is not a problem on the lake”. The
tests that occurred on Winnipesaukee
last year, tests that WINNFABS supported,
pretty much backed up the
director’s claims.
The law has a sunset provision, a
given period of two years.
The supporters NOW want to make
the law permanent, without any data to
review. I know for a fact that their reasoning
is that they know full well that
the lake traffic this year was pretty low
(note the contradiction to Mr. Weeks
claim), not to mention that the data
would clearly indicate that the speed
limit portion of the law had no data supporting
it’s passing to being with and
nothing supporting it now.
Regardless of the outcome, I think
that the law should stand on its own
merits and that the original sunset
provision should remain as written! I
further state that the data should be
made public as soon as it is available.
The Marine Patrol would obviously be
a great, first hand resource for media
to follow-up on this contentious issue.
Regardless of anyone’s opinion of this
law, I do believe that the public has a
right to know the facts, all of the facts.
Unfortunately, there were far too
many people like Mr. Weeks and WinnFabs
that dominated the process,
and the public has not been served
well by their actions or words.
Whenever anyone, or any group,
tries to conceal the truth to support
an idea, a giant RED FLAG should
go up. Behind their statements, probably
well behind those statements if
history is any indicator, the truth does
exist. Lake Winnipesaukee is a state
treasure, not something that belongs
to people with political or ideological
agendas. It is a SHARED resource.
Before anyone buys into Mr. Weeks
drama concerning the chaos that has
magically disappeared, perhaps the
public, you, should directly ask him
and the WinnFabs to support any of
their previous claims that chaos of
speeding boats ever existed in the first
place!
Drama belongs in the theater, not in
the law-making process.

[VitaBene]

Canoe registration fee will be need to pay for recovery efforts
To the editor,
I’m not sure what lake, or planet for
that matter, Mr. Weeks or Mr. Chase
refer to when they write of a noticeable
difference with the new boating
speed limit law. For the record, I am
a New Hampshire native and I am
on the lake Spring, Summer and Fall.
You know they are truly making this
up because they even claim the boating
traffic was still brisk. Who are
they kidding? By all accounts this
was the lightest boat traffic Summer
of any I’ve witnessed during my lifelong
residency in the Lakes Region.
Between this wonderful economy
and the lovely Summer weather, it
shouldn’t be much of a surprise that
there were very few boats on the lakes
this year. The only thing the boating
speed limit accomplished was slowing
down a few boats so I now get to listen
to them go by longer and I still get to
enjoy those ginormous boats wreck
my dock and erode my shoreline as
they leave their tsunami wake behind
them at 15 mph.
It sounds to me like these gentlemen
are speaking for the “I moved
here from somewhere else and it’s now
my lake” crowd. Our current band of
legislatures are experts at dropping
everything to debate yet another
meaningless problem like this one.
Meanwhile, Rome continues to burn.
As for boat safety, I did see several
brave souls attempt a canoe trip
across the dangerously windy and
wavy barren lake. I’m sure there will
be a few fatalities in the future for
those visitors who think a speed limit
will now let them safely navigate the
wavy waters in their tiny boats. I definitely
see the need for a canoe registration
fee to help pay the costs of the
rescue teams that will be looking for
their bodies. Of course the next step
for these liberals will be to pass a law
requiring all passengers to wear a life
jacket. Seriously, why not completely
kill what’s left to the lake economy
and what used to be a fun lake

[OCDACTIVE]

Thank you Vita for listing those. Now at least there is some balance in the media.

[NoRegrets]

I would like to second OCTATIVE thanks for posting the articles. It sure makes one proud to see a well constructed rebutal to fiction.

In case some question Fiction :
Fiction (Latin: fictum, "created") is a branch of literature which deals, in part or in whole, with temporally contrafactual events (events that are not true at the time of writing).

[VtSteve]

an opinion without alarming language or storytelling. Refreshing.

[VitaBene]

I try to look at the LDS daily but if I miss any (either side of the discussion) let me know and I will look back at the archive and post them.

I guess we all should be looking at the Monitor and other papers as well.

[Airwaves]

Looks like Mr Weeks found the address of the Laconia Daily Citizen...from yesterday's paper:

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll.../-1/CITOPINION

[hazelnut]

Every time I read that letter.... It's like really good comedy. Thanks for the laugh Mr. Weeks. I needed it.

The other SL Support letter posted by the other individual is downright insulting. This one is at least hilarious. The other letter actually hurts their cause IMO. When you make silly claims about the opposition and "what they are thinking," you come off sounding paranoid and actually a tad delusional. Most people will see through these letters I am sure. I am confident there are many lakes region area residents scratching their heads over these letters and getting a good chuckle.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Every time I read that letter.... It's like really good comedy. Thanks for the laugh Mr. Weeks. I needed it.

The other SL Support letter posted by the other individual is downright insulting. This one is at least hilarious. The other letter actually hurts their cause IMO. When you make silly claims about the opposition and "what they are thinking," you come off sounding paranoid and actually a tad delusional. Most people will see through these letters I am sure. I am confident there are many lakes region area residents scratching their heads over these letters and getting a good chuckle.

Just need to get another letter and a laugh from "he who must not be named" or may return.....

[VtSteve]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

Every time I read that letter.... It's like really good comedy. Thanks for the laugh Mr. Weeks. I needed it.

The other SL Support letter posted by the other individual is downright insulting. This one is at least hilarious. The other letter actually hurts their cause IMO. When you make silly claims about the opposition and "what they are thinking," you come off sounding paranoid and actually a tad delusional. Most people will see through these letters I am sure. I am confident there are many lakes region area residents scratching their heads over these letters and getting a good chuckle.

And there are some that are happy that high speed accidents aren't happening with reckless abandon. How would they know? Does anyone care about facts anymore? Bi said COME On, last year.