URGENT: Gilford boat launch ordinance

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Do a Google of Stephen Nix. He's an attorney. The best way to fight this type of individual is to lock horns with them. If they don't like boats, don't live on a lake.

There seems to be more and folks moving to the lake and thinking they can take control. I was told this is only the beginning.

[Just Sold]

JMHO and observation:
A quick review of the petition and who signed only finds that 2 of the petition signers reside directly on the water. 82 Dinsmore Point Road - James F. Bright, MD Portsmouth, NH. 68 Belknap Point Road - Douglas P. Hill, Real Estate Closing Atty. Meredith & Gilford Conservation Commission Member...Hmmm.

Also Atty. Stephen Nix lives just to the south and off Rt 11. He could have some waterfront but I did not look into that.

I am guessing of the first 2 pages of signers that most are acquaintences or have some relationship. They do not all live near each other in Gilford and it could be that (assuming he started it) Mr. Nix, an attorney from Gilford, stood at a particular location and got people to sign. I am very doubtfull of that. More likely there is another link between them like they are his (Nix's) clients?

Of the Petioners, Dr. Bright, Atty. Hill and Atty. Nix live the closest to Ames Farm so to me it appears it is their axe to grind.

Nix was listed as the C/O Atty. in 2006 for a lobbyist, David G. Collins, for the New Hampshire Lakes Property Association. Currious! No current links to this association could be found though.

Anyone here know of Atty. Nix, Atty. Hill or Dr. Bright????

[evelyn]

It does seem odd that the direct abutters to Ames don't have any complaints. This is more than a personal vendetta from that neighbor. There must be a hidden agenda.How is he looking to benefit from this? Ames' legal fees must be killing them !

[Formula260SS]

Originally Posted by evelyn

It does seem odd that the direct abutters to Ames don't have any complaints. This is more than a personal vendetta from that neighbor. There must be a hidden agenda.How is he looking to benefit from this? Ames' legal fees must be killing them !

I must say I am quite interested in what has motivated the efforts of Mr Nix, the problem is his efforts have hurt public access to the lake which does not sit well with me even though the end result has more or less no effect on me personally. Shutting Ames down the way it is now is a tragedy

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

I must say I am quite interested in what has motivated the efforts of Mr Nix, the problem is his efforts have hurt public access to the lake which does not sit well with me even though the end result has more or less no effect on me personally. Shutting Ames down the way it is now is a tragedy

I don’t know what motivated Nix but here is some factual data to consider:

Mr. Nix presented the argument to the ZBA to close down Ames see
http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...2008/S021BB065

on behalf of Patricia Nix-Ford, Susan Belanger-Bright, Maureen D. Nix

Patricia Nix-Ford is the owner of a lakefront lot to north of Ames Farm at 94 Dismoor Point RD.

Susan Belanger-Bright is the owner of lakefront lot at 84 Dinsmoor Point

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

I must say I am quite interested in what has motivated the efforts of Mr Nix, the problem is his efforts have hurt public access to the lake which does not sit well with me even though the end result has more or less no effect on me personally. Shutting Ames down the way it is now is a tragedy

True boaters have been saying all along. There is a conspiracy going on to eliminate certain boaters off the lake. First the speed limit bill, the rafting bill, then the public launch ramp bill. Soon to follow, will be the size of boats limit and horsepower limit.
There are a certain group of waterfront owners that firmly believe that they can bring the lake back to 'On Golden Pond' days and will see their property values skyrocketed. it's all about greed. If they don't like the lake the way it is. Go elsewhere! Squam Lake has property for sale. Next best is Moosehead Lake in Maine. PLENTY of land for sale.

[lawn psycho]

Here's a piece of what slickcraft's link has in it

{David Pierce stated that he has property close by and he has no connection to Ames Farm. He feels that the inn caters to families and the noise is minimal. He feels the neighbors should consider themselves fortunate to have a piece of the past in his midst and cautioned that unreasonable constraints will force the Ames family to sell the property. He finds Ames Farm much more preferable to other possible development.}

[fatlazyless]

Post #49 from Slickcraft has a very interesting & informative link to the Sept 23, 2008 Gilford Zoning Board hearing on Ames Farm. It is a written detailed record of two hours and 42 minutes of a town hearing between four different attorneys, a few witnesses and the people on the zoning board......and now you the reader......a very historical look at things.

A big thankyou to Sandra Bailey, Gilford's temporary scribe for keeping the score.

Attention: Study it hard because there will be a 25-question test on the Ames Farm Inn land use issues from 1955 to present, tomorrow at 9-am. Students who receive a score below 80 will have to shovel snow off the beach for one week using just their bare hands!

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Post #49 from Slickcraft has a very interesting & informative link to the recent Gilford Zoning Board hearing on Ames Farm. It is a written detailed record of two hours and 42 minutes of a town hearing between four different attorneys, a few witnesses and the people on the zoning board......and now you the reader......a very historical look at things.

Something to think about. If this ordinance passes, the Glendale docks and parking area would then become non-conforming uses. Feel free to inquire with your Town officials about this.

Like a mentioned above, there are other aspects of this that I am not going to tip my hand but there is a big hole in this oridinance that could put private lot/homeowners in a tight spot.

This ordinance was hastily drafted by a small number of residents with no due diligence (FLL, remember what I said about mob rule?). Any zoning or land-use change should require notification to any lot owner who would then become non-conforming to be notified as a minimum. I don't know if Gilford has done that or if they are required too. The Town of Gilford adminstration should be doing their homework as to number of lots impacted and whether this would preclude a future business from having a public launch anywhere other than existing lots.

Now we know precisely where to stage our winter protest!

[fatlazyless]

My mistake; the hearing was not recent, it took place on September 23, 2008.
......

One more item to add to the list of Lake Winnipesaukee no-no's, will be NO FIBERGLASS BOATS.......only aluminum boats will be allowed.....excepting kayaks, of course.

Hey, there's got to be a nice aluminum kayak somewhere? Probably, down on some nice quiet lake in Alumabama!.......

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

...... There is a conspiracy going on......

Heard it on the grapevine, when all the dust settles.......only 14' Alumacrafts & 15hp Evinrude tiller-handles will be the only boats allowed.....Lake Winnipesaukee 1970 - now & forever! ...........

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Heard it on the grapevine, when all the dust settles.......only 14' Alumacrafts & 15hp Evinrude tiller-handles will be the only boats allowed.....Lake Winnipesaukee 1970 - now & forever! ...........

Aluminum is in fishing boats moreso than in other types of crafts. The very kind used by folks launching at Ames farm

[Formula260SS]

This is what happens when Lawyers have too much time on their hands, what's next move RT 11 ??

[Slickcraft]

Three of the signers are members of the Conservation Commission: Douglas Hill. Charles Coons and Lawrence Routhier.
http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...Comm/conserve2

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Three of the signers are members of the Conservation Commission: Douglas Hill. Charles Coons and Lawrence Routhier.
http://www.gilfordnh.org/Public_Docu...Comm/conserve2

Makes you wonder who on the forum is among the petitioners.....

[ishoot308]

I guess I do not understand... The petition as written does not say public or private boat launch. Either way, the Gilford shoreline is what it is at this point. I don't think you could find 1500' shoreline in Gilford where new construction would even be available for this to even matter (I may be wrong). In any instance wouldn't Ames Farm be grandfathered anyway??....

Please tell me what I am missing which I am sure is a lot!

For the record, Ames Farm in my opinion has always been a wonderful place for non waterfront people, NH residents and out of state residents to launch boats for many many years and should be left that way. They are and always have been a great neighbor in the Gilford community (I think???).

They also have a great restaurant!! :-)

Dan

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I guess I do not understand... The petition as written does not say public or private boat launch. Either way, the Gilford shoreline is what it is at this point. I don't think you could find 1500' shoreline in Gilford where new construction would even be available for this to even matter (I may be wrong). In any instance wouldn't Ames Farm be grandfathered anyway??....

Please tell me what I am missing which I am sure is a lot!

For the record, Ames Farm in my opinion has always been a wonderful place for non waterfront people, NH residents and out of state residents to launch boats for many many years and should be left that way. They are and always have been a great neighbor in the Gilford community (I think???).

They also have a great restaurant!! :-)

Dan

Specifically it would prevent Ames Farm from operating as they previously did with a public boat launch. Realize that just because a facility is not "free" it is still considered a public launch. It also prevents even public boat storage as well.

Notice the language about not only residential lots but those in their "natural state" could never be used for a public launch if the luanch was within 1500 ft. That's over a 1/4 mile (0.284 mile to be exact) away. I don't know many, if any places around the lake where there is a 1/4 mile distance to a residence.

There is one gotcha that I would stick up their tailpipes that I'm going to withhold so as not to tip them about what makes the ordinance not air-tight. It actually could work against the homeowners. He must not be a very good lawyer

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Specifically it would prevent Ames Farm from operating as they previously did with a public boat launch. Realize that just because a facility is not "free" it is still considered a public launch. It also prevents even public boat storage as well.

Notice the language about not only residential lots but those in their "natural state" could never be used for a public launch if the luanch was within 1500 ft. That's over a 1/4 mile (0.284 mile to be exact) away. I don't know many, if any places around the lake where there is a 1/4 mile distance to a residence.

There is one gotcha that I would stick up their tailpipes that I'm going to withhold so as not to tip them about what makes the ordinance not air-tight. It actually could work against the homeowners. He must not be a very good lawyer

Thanks L.P.

But what about West Alton Marina or Fay's Marina... which also allows anyone who pays the minor launch fee to anyone which certainly have abutters within 1500'... Are they going to be shutdown because of this or are they grandfathered???

Sorry...Still confused...

Da

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Thanks L.P.

But what about West Alton Marina or Fay's Marina... which also allows anyone who pays the minor launch fee to anyone which certainly have abutters within 1500'... Are they going to be shutdown because of this or are they grandfathered???

Sorry...Still confused...

Da

No, even if this passes they could not shutdown WAM or Fay's. This is a local zoning ordinance proposal for Gilford only. Fay's is already a legally permitted use as a marina. What I don't know is which lots/business owners would now become non-comforming. That is a big deal when owning property.

Another issue with the ordinance is how it addresses launch ramps already in operation. There are some private ramp owners who may not be getting what they are bargaining for if this passes. I'll leave it at that.

[fatlazyless]

Maybe I am incorrect on this, but I think the voting in March will probably be an all day, 7am-7pm, private ballot as opposed to a show of hands at say 11:12pm. Probably, the more voters who vote makes it a better vote in that it is decided by a more democratic process.


Gilford is an SB-2 town.

[Slickcraft]

Zoning articles go on the secret ballot along with election of town officials, this is true even in SB2 towns.

If passed, all existing use public ramps would not be impacted unless they wanted to expand. Ames Farm is not an existing use public ramp as they have been shut down. Passage would keep them from reopening.

In fact passage would preclude any future public ramp as there is no shoreline that would meet the requirements.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

An informed voter is a smarter voter.

I think I've done my part This is a case where the impacted parties are under-represented. Access to the lake is a big concern.

What I am still not sure of is would the ordinance comply with NH State law. There's a tangled web when you are dealing with shoreland regulations and gets out of my league quickly.

The public parking area which requires you get a permit by lottery and be a Gilford Town resident in Gilford would be a non-conforming use if this passes as I interpret that ordinance. Betcha the town fathers will love that when they realize they've been jilted

[fatlazyless]

.....hey lawn psycho.... I'm not a Gilford resident.... and I bet there's plenty Winnipesaukee trailer-boaters who appreciate your efforts with this.....

Probably one good reason why the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th largest NH lakes, Newfound, Squam, & Winnisquam all have State of NH boat launch facilities with double launching ramps, docks, toilets, and parking, while Winnipesaukee does not is because Ames Farm Inn was the defacto public ramp, along with all the various town and private marina ramps.

Did you know the NH Fish & Game Dept likes to set up at Ames Farm for fish species monitoring via the fisherman who return to the Ames dock with fresh caught fish.

[evelyn]

Try to fish swim or boat near the point north of Ames and you will meet the petitioner. He will be out there yelling at you.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by evelyn

Try to fish swim or boat near the point north of Ames and you will meet the petitioner. He will be out there yelling at you.

Good, let him yell at me. Then he'll find himself on the other side of the law. I know where I will be spending extra time this summer. I'm not kidding.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

Good, let him yell at me. Then he'll find himself on the other side of the law. I know where I will be spending extra time this summer. I'm not kidding.

L.P. you tell me when and I will meet you there.. Our own little "legal" protest!

Then you can join me in Braun Bay!

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

L.P. you tell me when and I will meet you there.. Our own little "legal" protest!

Then you can join me in Braun Bay!

Sounds fun, I'll bring the whole family. My daughter can cry on cue and my kids like to scream and splash when they swim.

[robmac]

Count me in !

[OCDACTIVE]

I can pull my mufflers for the day if you like? - I'm being sarcastic before anyone reads into this....

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

L.P. you tell me when and I will meet you there.. Our own little "legal" protest!

Then you can join me in Braun Bay!

Plan on it

[Airwaves]

Along these lines, NH Fish and Game is holding a hearing (Monday I beleive) and a public comment period (ending the 20th or 21st) for the readoption of rules regarding boat access facilities.

It does not look like any language has changed it just appears to be housekeeping, but just FYI.

I wonder if NHF&G would have something to say about the Gilford proposal?

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

L.P. you tell me when and I will meet you there.. Our own little "legal" protest!

Then you can join me in Braun Bay!

I want in too!

[Formula260SS]

Does it make sense to have a "Snowmobile" Reggatta this winter, or maybe that's the BEST fishing spot on the lake for the derby........I think someone told me that's where all the big lakers are

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Formula260SS

Does it make sense to have a "Snowmobile" Reggatta this winter, or maybe that's the BEST fishing spot on the lake for the derby........I think someone told me that's where all the big lakers are

I like the way you think

Maybe I should buy an old porti-pottie and convert to a bob house.