Lake Host documenting personal info?

[Lakegeezer]

If you want to avoid the personal attention, launch before 8 or after 5 on weekends, or during any week day. You can also launch at the state ramp aside Harilla Landing anytime.

The lake hosts are providing a service to other lakes more than Winnipesaukee. If you delaunch from Lees Mills or States landing, is it VERY likely you will have milfoil on your trailer, which can live a week or more. If your trailer goes into another lake, it can introduce it there.

As one of the lake hosts in Moultonborough, I understand the procedure and potential privacy concerns. The primary purpose for recording bow numbers is so that if the boat comes out the same day, the same entry on the log sheet is used and the other questions don't have to be asked again. To my knowledge, the bow numbers are not used for other purposes - but I will ask the question to be sure.

Bow numbers are indeed public information, so there should be no expectation of privacy, just as your car license plate is recorded by camera as you pass through the toll-booths. Lake hosts are instructed to disengage from the boater if there is any resistance, but also instructed to write down the number anyway. You don't have to answer the questions about where your boat was last in the water, nor do you have to submit to an inspection. In the training, we were asked to check tackle boxes for milfoil on the lures, but I don't know any lake host who has gone that far.

In my experience - 100% of the boaters at the ramp were friendly, interested in learning more about invasive weeds and glad to be sure they were not a channel for spreading the problem. That said, there are times that I might be in a private mood and would feed my space had been invaded by the lake hosts. It is one of the downsides of milfoil.

[topwater]

Vita, I have to disagree with you on your statement about "THEY HAVE CREATED ENOUGH". They did not start or create ANY situation. They were lied to by the host's. They hosts were the ones who created any and all of the problems here, not the boaters. If the hosts just would have honored their words,(which a man or woman is only as good as their words are!) Maybe we should be looking for more honest people then the one that CREATE this situation. As far as the girl-woman? host that called the police, that is a bit riduclious, as Lakegeezer mentioned the hosts are supposedly trained to walk away from situations like this. Bottom line is if what loopcharged says is actually what happened, all of this could have been avoided if 1. The hosts did not lie !
2. The hosts did their job they way they were trained and payed to do.

[Irrigation Guy]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

If you want to avoid the personal attention, launch before 8 or after 5 on weekends, or during any week day. You can also launch at Harrilla Landing anytime.

Sorry correction here:

You can launch at the state ramp at the end of Long Island, but you cannot launch at Harilla Landing unless you are a member there.

[Happy Gourmand]

Does anybody else wonder what Loopcharged has to hide? Whether or not the Lake Host lied is neither here nor there. Bow numbers and license plate numbers are indeed public information. The Milfoil project is providing a much needed service for Lake Winnipesaukee and other lakes in NH. They, or anybody can record bow numbers or license plate numbers for any purpose they want. Public launches and public docks are just that...public. Sometimes the easiest way to not be noticed is to just go with the flow and not bring attention to yourself by putting up a fuss in a public place.

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Does anybody else wonder what Loopcharged has to hide? Whether or not the Lake Host lied is neither here nor there. Bow numbers and license plate numbers are indeed public information. The Milfoil project is providing a much needed service for Lake Winnipesaukee and other lakes in NH. They, or anybody can record bow numbers or license plate numbers for any purpose they want. Public launches and public docks are just that...public. Sometimes the easiest way to not be noticed is to just go with the flow and not bring attention to yourself by putting up a fuss in a public place.

I do as well, but felt it was not really the place to ask what
but yes intriguing
yet again it could just be a principal

You ever wonder about the privacy laws, I have often wondered about why I get so many mailings after I get a U.S. bond for one of my nephews or neices, or other friends kids for birthdays and events

Well after all the privicey laws and everything else, come to find out the Federal government sells your information to marketing companies after receiving your information when you purchase a bond

How do you like that one?????

[RailroadJoe]

No one checking for mill foil at Alton Bay, however, they are checking at Merrymeeting Lake.

[MJM]

We've found the Lake Hosts (Libby Museum ramp) to be friendly and professional. My guess for the lying is that it was a strategy by a young person to avoid conflict. Not a good decision, but not the end of the world.

I am vigilant about my personal information, but Bow# and license plate# are public and readily visible.

[Sman]

With all due respect, you turned your private boating exprience into a public one when you got confrontational at a public boat launch and posted about it online.

Hope you had a good day on the lake though, that is what it is all about.

[SIKSUKR]

First of all,what is the big deal with your bow numbers being recorded at a ramp?Anyone could be just around the corner or in the water at the ramp doing the same thing.What harm would come to you with this info?As soon as you register your boat and display the numbers you gave up your supposed right to privacy about if your boat is launched at Winni.If your that paranoid than I suggest you launch at a private ramp.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

First of all,what is the big deal with your bow numbers being recorded at a ramp?Anyone could be just around the corner or in the water at the ramp doing the same thing.What harm would come to you with this info?As soon as you register your boat and display the numbers you gave up your supposed right to privacy about if your boat is launched at Winni.If your that paranoid than I suggest you launch at a private ramp.

I think he has a concern about his whereabouts being tracked and logged, for whatever reason.

[angela4design]

How could that information be used? If someone's boat got hit, would they refer to the list to see likely offenders? I guess I don't see the point of keeping the list.

IDK - Are the hosts paid employees? Of whose? State/Private?

[Irrigation Guy]

FWIW - A friends daughter here in M'boro is a paid lake host.

One could only speculate why someone would want to withhold this information.

Providing past employment history on a public domain forum may lead to ones identity being discovered after all.

[Winnicandle]

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

FWIW - A friends daughter here in M'boro is a paid lake host.

One could only speculate why someone would want to withhold this information.

Dosen't matter his intentions....I also find it rather irritating that someone is recording peoples comings/goings. Americans are funny that way - wanting to stay off lists.

I suppose one can just cover up their numbers just prior to launch then incover them in the water...just to mess with a few people who have nothing better to do on a nice sunny lake than other than record bow numbers.

[Yankee]

Originally Posted by Winnicandle

Americans are funny that way - wanting to stay off lists.
)

There are many who would define what you term "funny that way" as LIBERTY.

[ironhorsetim]

Why did the chicken cross the street ? I don't know let's ask the farmer.

[Onshore]

One COULD speculate as to why someone would not want their bow number recorded but then when you think about the fact that people would look at info like this and start speculating about who was where and why it sort of becomes self explanatory in my mind... And I say this as a government employee. I would guess that the interest in bow numbers is harmless and related to tracking ramp use patterns relative to milfoil infestations to better control its spread. Again that is a guess. That said, I would probably ask people not to track my bow number either just on principle. Let's face it most folks go there to "get away". If I felt that I was being followed or tracked I wouldn't want go there anymore.

[Skip]

The program, according to its website, seems to be a worthwhile effort that has a track record of identifying and helping eliminate invasive species infestation across the State.

HERE is the website that covers this particular program.

At the bottom you can read the instructor guide, the worksheet they use that requires bow number information, and all kinds of different information.

And as LocalRealtor indicated, there are indeed paid positions at the ramps.

I would assume that a call to the Lakes Association would clarify as to why they are tracking bow numbers. The information within the website assures that the information gathered is confidential.

Maybe there is a reader from the Lakes Association here that could shed more light on this particular policy?

By the way, I found the website very informative!

[Jonas Pilot]

Originally Posted by Skip

The program, according to its website, seems to be a worthwhile effort that has a track record of identifying and helping eliminate invasive species infestation across the State.

HERE is the website that covers this particular program.

At the bottom you can read the instructor guide, the worksheet they use that requires bow number information, and all kinds of different information.

And as LocalRealtor indicated, there are indeed paid positions at the ramps.

I would assume that a call to the Lakes Association would clarify as to why they are tracking bow numbers. The information within the website assures that the information gathered is confidential.

Maybe there is a reader from the Lakes Association here that could shed more light on this particular policy?

By the way, I found the website very informative!

It took the easy way out and just watched the video.

http://www.nhlakes.org/Lake_Host.mpg

[Skip]

Originally Posted by Jonas Pilot

It took the easy way out and just watched the video.

http://www.nhlakes.org/Lake_Host.mpg

Thanks JP, missed the video when I was looking at the other info.

It is great that we have an organization like the NH Lakes Association and their staff and volunteers working dilligently to keep our waterways safe from invasive species.

If anyone else gets a moment, the video is an excellent way to familiarize yourself with this fantastic organization....

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Skip

It is great that we have an organization like the NH Lakes Association and their staff and volunteers working dilligently to keep our waterways safe from invasive species.

Well said.

[Lakegeezer]

The lake hosts were notified today that if a boater asks to not have their bow numbers recorded, they should not be recorded, and scratched out if already recorded, which is common. Sometimes it takes an incident like this to clarify procedures. Those who ask to not be recorded may have to ask twice, as the next shift won't know they are a repeat visitor to the ramp. If the lake host in question here made a mistake, hopefully they will be forgiven and not do it again.

Note: not an official spokesperson for NHLA - just a lake host volunteer

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The lake hosts were notified today that if a boater asks to not have their bow numbers recorded, they should not be recorded, and scratched out if already recorded, which is common. Sometimes it takes an incident like this to clarify procedures. Those who ask to not be recorded may have to ask twice, as the next shift won't know they are a repeat visitor to the ramp. If the lake host in question here made a mistake, hopefully they will be forgiven and not do it again.

Just curious why the NHLA could or would not post this info? Could have avoided most of this thread if they had done so.

Lakegeezer, are you an official spokes person for the NHLA? Thanks.

[Irrigation Guy]

[Rose]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Just curious why the NHLA could or would not post this info? Could have avoided most of this thread if they had done so.

If the hosts are paid employees, this is probably now a personnel matter in the association's eyes and details with regards to the incident cannot be discussed in public without opening themselves up to legal action by the employees.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by LocalRealtor

One could only speculate why someone would want to withhold this information.

Providing past employment history on a public domain forum may lead to ones identity being discovered after all.

There's a difference. Giving up your PII data is one thing -- an agency, company, or organization actively collecting it and storing it is quite another. Apples and oranges.

I never give my telephone number to the grocery store clerk when I am asked. Others do. I don't understand why.

[The Real BigGuy]

Let's be clear, bow numbers are not personnal information. They are public, just as a car's license plat is. The information behind the bow numbers (name, address, phone number, etc.) is the private information. There is no need/requirement to get approval to record a bow number. If they use the bow number to access your personnal information, that is a different story.

A suggestion: if you don't want your bow number recorded, use a private launch facility and pay the fee. No lake hosts there.

"Everyone is after me but, I'm not paranoid!"

[DBreskin]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Let's be clear, bow numbers are not personnal information. They are public, just as a car's license plat is. The information behind the bow numbers (name, address, phone number, etc.) is the private information. There is no need/requirement to get approval to record a bow number. If they use the bow number to access your personnal information, that is a different story.

Do not confuse personal with private; they are not mutually exclusive. Bow numbers are most definitely personal information, just as a license plate number on your car is personal information. Both are used to identify an individual vehicle, which is usually linked to an individual owner. Both bow numbers and license plate numbers are both personal and public information.

[LIforrelaxin]

This is the problem with the lake host system. I knew at some point this would happen. In this day and age it is to easy for people to become paranoid. And feel as though big brother is watching them. While I agree with educating people about milfoil and other invasive non native plant species, I don't agree with recording any information what so ever for any purpose.

I understand exactly what they are trying to do with that information, because they are tracking the same information at lakes and ramps where milfoil exist. Now what do people think is going to happen when your bow number show up at a ramp where milfoil all of a sudden shows up and also show up with in a reasonable prior period of time at a ramp will milfoil is known to be a problem?

No I am not paranoid.... it is simply the truth... the liberalistic society that creates these programs is looking for ways to blame and target people to pay for the problem.

I was originally thinking of participating in the Lake Host program myself, until I heard that they wanted to track and take information. That is just the wrong way to approach these problem.... education is how it needs to be done, not through tactics that can lead to blame.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

No I am not paranoid.... it is simply the truth... the liberalistic society that creates these programs is looking for ways to blame and target people to pay for the problem.

I was originally thinking of participating in the Lake Host program myself, until I heard that they wanted to track and take information. That is just the wrong way to approach these problem.... education is how it needs to be done, not through tactics that can lead to blame.

There's an information security concept called PII (Personally Identifiable Information). It's any personal information that can be used to identify people. When organizations collect PII data, they are obligated to get your permission first, and then tell you exactly what it's going to be used for. They also are obligated to not collect PII data on you if you don't want them to.

What is PII data? It's a number of things. See here. You'll notice that Vehicle Identification information is one of them. In fact, why do newspapers and TV always obscure the license plate when they show someone on TV? Because that info is PII, that's why.

The Lake Host program needs to revise its policies. They are not allowed to record PII data without permission. A good lawyer can make some hay on this.

[Shedwannabe]

Originally Posted by This'nThat

When organizations collect PII data, they are obligated to get your permission first, and then tell you exactly what it's going to be used for. They also are obligated to not collect PII data on you if you don't want them to.

Interesting link, but where does it say what you allege? There is nothing in that article that has anything to do with your claim. The closest is: "The U.S. Senate has recently proposed the Privacy Act of 2005, which attempts to strictly limit the display, purchase, or sale of PII without the person's consent." Now that may have passed, and result it what you claimed, but the link you gave does not reveal that, if in fact it happened.

So, you may be correct, but have provided no proof or in fact any evidence suggesting you might be correct.

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by Shedwannabe

Interesting link, but where does it say what you allege? There is nothing in that article that has anything to do with your claim. The closest is: "The U.S. Senate has recently proposed the Privacy Act of 2005, which attempts to strictly limit the display, purchase, or sale of PII without the person's consent." Now that may have passed, and result it what you claimed, but the link you gave does not reveal that, if in fact it happened.

So, you may be correct, but have provided no proof or in fact any evidence suggesting you might be correct.

The link was to provide a list of examples of PII data, which includes vehicle identification information.

[garysanfran]

Originally Posted by This'nThat

There's an information security concept called PII (Personally Identifiable Information). It's any personal information that can be used to identify people. When organizations collect PII data, they are obligated to get your permission first, and then tell you exactly what it's going to be used for. They also are obligated to not collect PII data on you if you don't want them to.

What is PII data? It's a number of things. See here. You'll notice that Vehicle Identification information is one of them. In fact, why do newspapers and TV always obscure the license plate when they show someone on TV? Because that info is PII, that's why.

The Lake Host program needs to revise its policies. They are not allowed to record PII data without permission. A good lawyer can make some hay on this.

OMG!!! you want to get a lawyer involved with this?

[This'nThat]

Originally Posted by garysanfran

OMG!!! you want to get a lawyer involved with this?

Did I say that? Nope. BUT -- if anybody misuses personal data, that is serious. I think the people who instinctively resist requests for this data are correct -- and ANYBODY who doesn't respect rights to privacy are opening a can of worms that, unfortunately, will ultimately involve lawyers. It would be better for the lake hosts to know that linking vehicle license numbers with names and/or addresses is skating on thin legal ice.

[loopcharged]

I am a full time year round resident of Moultonborough and have been since 1979. As a boy I worked with Fred Marcus ( his daughter now runs the loon sanctuary/center ) at the "point" where Fred was working with Dartmouth college to eradicate milfoil. I have personaly witnessed the degradation of the Lee's mills and greens basin areas. I was working on Squam lake when milfoil was discovered there and cooperated with the SLA to ensure it would not propagate from outside trailer traffic. I am very aware of my responcibility as a boater to help prevent the migration of invasive speicies. I also have some very serious and personal reasons for not wanting records of where I am or what I may or may not be doing there. In the past I have simply and politely declined the Lake Host's request for inspections and recording of my bow numbers. Until last Sunday there had been no trouble. Ultimately I believe that I was used as a pawn wherein the female Lake Host representative didn't like my wife declining their request for inspection. I was not present when the request was made and declined. I only confirmed that Lake Host was performing as they stated. They did not. If when I veiwed the "public" information on the clipboard and found that Lake Host had done what they indicated to my wife they would do, there would be no issue.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Does anybody else wonder what Loopcharged has to hide?

No, I didn't consider that. I just figured he was another person who was tired of having any of his identifying info tracked, logged, reported and noted.

I agree that it is public data, and easily recordable in a number of ways, and I also think the milfoil people can do their service without recording someone's info, even if that request is not entirely rational.