Lake Host documenting personal info?

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

The lake hosts were notified today that if a boater asks to not have their bow numbers recorded, they should not be recorded, and scratched out if already recorded, which is common. Sometimes it takes an incident like this to clarify procedures. Those who ask to not be recorded may have to ask twice, as the next shift won't know they are a repeat visitor to the ramp. If the lake host in question here made a mistake, hopefully they will be forgiven and not do it again.

Just curious why the NHLA could or would not post this info? Could have avoided most of this thread if they had done so.

Lakegeezer, are you an official spokes person for the NHLA? Thanks.

[Irrigation Guy]

[Heaven]

The main complaint here seems to be that an employee acted inappropriately, and just like the restaurant threads that complaint could have been better handled by loopcharged by calling the agency that the employee represents.

loopcharged seems so incensed that an employee perhaps stepped outside the lines and lied (he claims), that I can in fact see how he may have become intimidating to that person. A person can be intimidating without necessarily saying/interacting directly with a particular person.

[Rose]

Originally Posted by DEJ

Just curious why the NHLA could or would not post this info? Could have avoided most of this thread if they had done so.

If the hosts are paid employees, this is probably now a personnel matter in the association's eyes and details with regards to the incident cannot be discussed in public without opening themselves up to legal action by the employees.

[DEJ]

Originally Posted by Rose

If the hosts are paid employees, this is probably now a personnel matter in the association's eyes and details with regards to the incident cannot be discussed in public without opening themselves up to legal action by the employees.

If that indeed is the case that is all they had to say and that would have been that and ended this discussion. Since they did not the question still exists. Here at the end of the day an answer from the NHLA still has not been given.

[Bear Islander]

I am disappointed at the responses posted here by the NHLA, an organization I have supported for years. In several posts they danced around the central question of recording bow numbers when asked not to, but gave no clear answer. In post #40 they gave a contradictory answer.

I am also disappointed in some posts by members here. Many people are concerned about information being gathered about them. They have every right to stand up for what they feel may invade their privacy. That DOES NOT mean they were doing anything wrong. It is a cheap shot to imply that because a person values their privacy that they have been breaking the law. Suggesting they "stay home" or "stay away from public ramps" is uncalled for. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Skipper of the Sea Que]

Wow, some very diverse (and a few unexpected) comments in this thread. First, I do appreciate their work and any and all efforts to help clean up and protect our lakes. However....

New Hampshire Lakes Association and their Lakes Host Program goal: ...to prevent the introduction and spread of exotic aquatic plants...

They inspect boats and trailers looking for exotic plants BUT NOT ANIMALS? Why are they not looking for Zebra Mussels too? Is it a different kind of inspection to look for Zebra Mussels? Why exclude this aquatic nuisance species and concentrate only on plants?

Until this thread got me to look at their web site I thought the inspections were for all aquatic nuisance species - plant and animal but apparently I am wrong.

Get those bow numbers on paper but don't look for zebra mussels? Why waste an inspection opportunity?

[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Skipper of the Sea Que

They inspect boats and trailers looking for exotic plants BUT NOT ANIMALS? Why are they not looking for Zebra Mussels too? Is it a different kind of inspection to look for Zebra Mussels? Why exclude this aquatic nuisance species and concentrate only on plants?

Until this thread got me to look at their web site I thought the inspections were for all aquatic nuisance species - plant and animal but apparently I am wrong.

In the training to be a lake host and also in lectures from the NH DES, we are taught that Lake Winnipesaukee is an acid rain lake. The low PH makes the calcium level in the water too low to support the growth of shells that zebra mussels depend on. They can not survive if introduced, so there is no need to inspect for them.

The lake hosts offer a pamphlet to rampers, with the plants of concern along with ones that are not yet in our lake. The hosts also have a nice laminated chart with large pictures of each one - to help them with identification. There is another program for those that want to help - and that is the weed watchers. After milfoil treatment, volunteers are needed to scour the lake for new and returning patches. In that training, we learn that there are some natural forms of milfoil and it is not always easy to know which is native and which is invasive. So much to learn - so little time.

In the latest presentation by NH DES (last Thursday at the Loon Center), Amy Smagula showed pictures taken under her boat trailer after examining a milfoil filled lake. It is amazing where those plants can hide!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Bear Islander

I am disappointed at the responses posted here by the NHLA, an organization I have supported for years. In several posts they danced around the central question of recording bow numbers when asked not to, but gave no clear answer. In post #40 they gave a contradictory answer.

I am also disappointed in some posts by members here. Many people are concerned about information being gathered about them. They have every right to stand up for what they feel may invade their privacy. That DOES NOT mean they were doing anything wrong. It is a cheap shot to imply that because a person values their privacy that they have been breaking the law. Suggesting they "stay home" or "stay away from public ramps" is uncalled for. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

I fail to see anything contradictory in NHLA's post. Particularly #40- "Yes they are". NHLA's posts stated why they take down bow #s of boats that do and don't participate and it makes sense in both cases.

You make it sound like they are gathering information that is sensitive in any way. It is a bow #, you know that # that is required to be on your boat, be contrasting in color and large enough to be read from a distance.

I am sure that the NHLA is not tied into the National Security Agency.

Valuing your privacy does not mean intimidating a person doing his or her summer job. You know that a person does not need to use loud, boisterous or foul language to be intimidating. Read the OP again carefully. I am quite sure had I been at the ramp, I know who I would have sided with.

I am still trying to wrap my head around your last sentence, but I will say that I (and I daresay most others) will lose no sleep over what you think.

[loopcharged]

There were no minors involved. The female Lake Host representative is 47 years of age as per the Moultonborough police report. Her male counterpart appeared to be about the same age.

[loopcharged]

To obtain a hard copy of any police report requires the case to be closed and a written request that must be OK'd by the chief of police. I have submitted a request for the same. I have only recieved verbal data from the chief of police as the case is not yet closed. I would be willing to share the details with any and all concerned , however I must also agree that this all is rather silly. I launch many boats from many locations . I will echo my position from a previous post that I am aware of my resposibility as a boater to ensure that I am not propagating the migrition of invasive speicies. I have had the Lake Host "talk" enough to commit it to memory. This is why I politely decline. Recording any of the "public registration numbers" is poitless as I will always decline the inspections. My vision is good and my resposibilites clear. Consuming the time of boaters at the ramp on busy weekends makes for extended launch times and can cause other problems. There is such a thing as good ramp edicate.

[Happy Gourmand]

Loopcharged told us the ages of the Lake Hosts......now he tells us he will post the police report with all the gathered information by the police that will contain the names of the Lake Hosts....and his own.....say what???
So...about this privacy issue...........

[loopcharged]

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Loopcharged told us the ages of the Lake Hosts......now he tells us he will post the police report with all the gathered information by the police that will contain the names of the Lake Hosts....and his own.....say what???
So...about this privacy issue...........

You've missed the point. I said I would share, not post...If you're really that concerned about this then contact me and we can meet to share the report.

[Lakesrider]

OK....I rescind my remarks about the reps being kids on Summer break. I always see kids at the Libby Museum launch ramp so therefore my brain went right to kids doing the Hosting at your ramp.
I'll stand up and apologize.
Actually after thinking about this, it is what makes America, America. The right to stand up for what you believe in. Eventually these things, such as Milfoil inspections, may become mandatory, therefore making these talks and registration number takings a necessary thing in the future. (I commend the fact that you seem to be diligent about Milfoil transfer from your boat, but just because I am careful to separate my trash and recycle does not keep me from getting gigged by the Trash Nazis at the dump. Or to get a lecture from him about my sorting style.) So, what will everyone do then? Also will there soon be an added fee when registering your boat, say, for Milfoil abatement? Who knows what is coming down the road. Or the ramp. Privacy may not be something you will be able to control when going boating in the future.

[NH LAKES ASSOCIATION]

Two more points of clarification...

Yes, the written objective of the Lake Host program does state that the goal is to prevent the spread of exotic aquatic plants as this is the primary concern relative to exotic aquatic species in New Hampshire. But, rest assured, keeping an eye out for zebra mussels, and removing them when found (thankfully, this has NOT happened yet), is also taught in the Lake Host training sessions. For more information about zebra mussels, how they spread, what threat they pose to New Hampshire's approximately 1,000 lakes and ponds, and what NH LAKES recommends to prevent their spread, we invite you to read our article that appears the current issue of the Weirs Times (August 12th issue)entitled "Zebras in the lake?" You can download it from our homepage at www.nhlakes.org (look under the heading, "NH LAKES in the news") or visit www.weirs.com.

NH LAKES will not provide any comment on what the boater(s) and or Lake Host(s) in question did or did not do at the Lees Mills ramp in Moultonborough on Sunday, August 8th, to protect the privacy of all parties involved. What we can tell you is that both parties chose to report and resolve their issue with the local authorities and that NH LAKES has reiterated to participating groups about what Lake Hosts should do and should not do when a boater does not want his/her vessel inspected or bow number recorded.

Although what is reported to have happened between the Lake Host(s) and boater(s) is unfortuante (and a one-of-a kind event within our 9-year history of the program during which 300,000 courtesy boat inspections have been conducted) this has been a terrific opportunity to raise awareness about the importance of the NH LAKES Lake Host Program and what boaters can do to help keep New Hampshire's lakes free from exotic aquatic plant for all to enjoy - THANK YOU!

Enjoy the rest of the summer!

[Bear Islander]

Originally Posted by NH LAKES ASSOCIATION

Two more points of clarification...

Yes, the written objective of the Lake Host program does state that the goal is to prevent the spread of exotic aquatic plants as this is the primary concern relative to exotic aquatic species in New Hampshire. But, rest assured, keeping an eye out for zebra mussels, and removing them when found (thankfully, this has NOT happened yet), is also taught in the Lake Host training sessions. For more information about zebra mussels, how they spread, what threat they pose to New Hampshire's approximately 1,000 lakes and ponds, and what NH LAKES recommends to prevent their spread, we invite you to read our article that appears the current issue of the Weirs Times (August 12th issue)entitled "Zebras in the lake?" You can download it from our homepage at www.nhlakes.org (look under the heading, "NH LAKES in the news") or visit www.weirs.com.

NH LAKES will not provide any comment on what the boater(s) and or Lake Host(s) in question did or did not do at the Lees Mills ramp in Moultonborough on Sunday, August 8th, to protect the privacy of all parties involved. What we can tell you is that both parties chose to report and resolve their issue with the local authorities and that NH LAKES has reiterated to participating groups about what Lake Hosts should do and should not do when a boater does not want his/her vessel inspected or bow number recorded.

Although what is reported to have happened between the Lake Host(s) and boater(s) is unfortuante (and a one-of-a kind event within our 9-year history of the program during which 300,000 courtesy boat inspections have been conducted) this has been a terrific opportunity to raise awareness about the importance of the NH LAKES Lake Host Program and what boaters can do to help keep New Hampshire's lakes free from exotic aquatic plant for all to enjoy - THANK YOU!

Enjoy the rest of the summer!

In what is now post #38 you are asked...

Are they trained to record Boat and/or vehicle data regardless?

Your answer is...

Yes, they are, unless a boater does specifically ask that their information not be recorded.

The first part of your answer indicates that you do record bow numbers "regardless". The second part states that you do not. But perhaps you are making a distinction between "bow numbers" and other types of information such as "their information".

The fact that you are unable to make a reply to a simple question has me wondering what your policy was before this incident. I am asking NOTHING about the incident at the boat ramp, that is all "he said, she said". Nor does the police report interest me.

Please answer a simple question about your policy BEFORE the boat ramp incident. Was it NHLA policy to record bow numbers even if asked not to?

[brk-lnt]

I'm curious how long the recorded data is kept for and/or what other uses it is put to.

[Jonas Pilot]

It's time to call in Woodward and Bernstein! Perry Mason is already here.

[NoBozo]

There a number of Private organizations out there that want to inspect your boat for one reason or another. (It's for your own good you know.) Is NHLA one of those..? Do they get government money..? Where do they get the money to Pay people to be Hosts..?

Environmentalists have been tagging wild animals with GPS tracking devices for years just to see where they go. (It's for their own good) Why not just attach a GPS Tracker to each boat when it's launched, (a fee could be charged for this to cover the cost of milfoil abatement, etc) and collect the device when the boat is hauled. All sorts of information could be collected in Real Time on a laptop by the Hosts, or even Law Enforcement.

After all, surveillance cameras are everywhere already...... Think Red Light traffic cameras.


The above is just a thoughtfull citizen expressing an idea ...With tongue planted firmly in cheek. NB

[NH LAKES ASSOCIATION]

No. A Lake Host has not been, nor will ever be, trained to record a bow number if asked not to by a boater.

NH LAKES does not enter bow numbers into any computer database and we don't use it for other purposes. With that said, if a Lake Host believes that a crime has been committed against him/her at a boat ramp, they may or may not on their own accord, chose to report the bow number to the authorities so that the authorities can do whatever investigation they deem is necessary to resolve the issue.

Bow numbers are found only on the original written hard copies of Lake Host boater survey data sheets that are forwarded from local lake hosting groups to NH LAKES headquarters. These data sheets are kept in a secure location where they are shredded according to our data retention policy, which is five years.

For those of you who are interested in learning more, please feel free to contact NH LAKES at 603-226-0299. In addition, you are most welcome to attend an official 2011 Lake Host training sesison to learn more. Training session dates will be posted on our website in February 2011.

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by NH LAKES ASSOCIATION

N These data sheets are kept in a secure location where they are shredded according to our data retention policy, which is five years.

Why would they even need to be kept past the day they are recorded? If the purpose is just to avoid re-educating someone at the end of the day, and the data isn't entered into a database or anything else, why keep them so long?

[VitaBene]

NHLA, welcome to the forum... banging your head on the table yet

Thank you, and keep up the good work!

[Skip]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

NHLA, welcome to the forum... banging your head on the table yet

Thank you, and keep up the good work!

My thanks once again also!

Looking through some of these posts you'd think you ran a restaurant instead of a Lake Association!

[Heaven]

Assuming the Lake Host doesn't feel the need to call in the authorities for every person that asks not to have the bow number recorded, and/or doesn't call in the authorities on a regular basis for any reason, I have to conclude that there MIGHT HAVE BEEN some extenuating circumstances for doing so in this case, and in the end the story will tell itself.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Skip

My thanks once again also!

Looking through some of these posts you'd think you ran a restaurant instead of a Lake Association!

Are you sure they don't ? I think I had some excellent escargot zebre at one of their joints ....


Granted it came late and was cold but I thought ... well that's the French for ya.

[loopcharged]

Thanks to all for your information and insight. I just read meen macs quote and I think he/she has a point. I wasn't rude or threatening during my interaction with the lake host people however I probably could have smiled some when I found they had lied to my wife. Maybe they intended to scratch off my number and forgot? Anyway I applaud the efforts of the volunteers who are trying to help with the milfoil problem. See you all on the pond...

[Skip]

Enough is enough, I can't withhold the secret any longer.

Me & mee-n-mac set up cameras at dusk last night down in Alton Bay.

Yep....you guys were right all along.

We caught this flight of Black Helicopters heading south from various boat ramps around the lake. Using a special digital decoder mee-n-mac crafted from an old VCR and a broken DVD player we copied the pilots chatter as they vectored their way towards NHLA Headquarters.

Seems each was loaded with Lake Host survey sheets, and they were betting beers on who could get back to base and unload the secret data the quickest.

Please, for our safety don't tell ANYONE

[Jonas Pilot]

"Heavens to Murgatroyd!" It's worse than anybody thought!

[loopcharged]

I know you believe you understand what you think I said , but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant...

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by NH LAKES ASSOCIATION

No. A Lake Host has not been, nor will ever be, trained to record a bow number if asked not to by a boater.

NH LAKES does not enter bow numbers into any computer database and we don't use it for other purposes. With that said, if a Lake Host believes that a crime has been committed against him/her at a boat ramp, they may or may not on their own accord, chose to report the bow number to the authorities so that the authorities can do whatever investigation they deem is necessary to resolve the issue.

Bow numbers are found only on the original written hard copies of Lake Host boater survey data sheets that are forwarded from local lake hosting groups to NH LAKES headquarters. These data sheets are kept in a secure location where they are shredded according to our data retention policy, which is five years.

For those of you who are interested in learning more, please feel free to contact NH LAKES at 603-226-0299. In addition, you are most welcome to attend an official 2011 Lake Host training sesison to learn more. Training session dates will be posted on our website in February 2011.

I am trying to understand what this practice of recording is all about? Many can just put boats in the water from homes etc. May I know why this is being done? Is it for the Millfoil or ? Is it for safety to have each boat from some outside area recorded? Do all boats going into the lake need to be registered here for the time they are in the water or could they just come in from out of state? Thank you so much.