One way or the other

[jmen24]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As HN said, laws are enacted to curb specific problems. Last year, with a faltering economy and $5 gas vs. this year with a faltering economy and $3 gas, the difference is like night and day...boats aren't screaming by you 150' from your fishing boat at 70 MPH and one can actually have a conversation on the dock. There are people all over the lake who feel this way, and as was pointed out before, some of them are our elected officials in Concord...they can see the results with their own eyes, they don't have to take anyone's word for it. As far as Winnfabs and pushing their "agenda", let's not forget the powerboat industry and NHRBA pushing theirs down our legislators throats...I'm happy the house and senate took off their blindfolds and recognized this.

I will agree that the difference is night and day so pay attention because I am going to help you out a little as you are trying to compare the 2008 economy with 2009. First you mentioned the gas, so that is covered as to the difference between the years, but I will post in my list anyway. All figures are fiscal year start to date.

Description 2008 2009

Nat. Unemployment 5.8% 9.7%

NH Unemployment 3.9% 6.9%

Gas $5.00 $3.00

The next list is my companies growth comparing 2008 to 2007 and 2009 to 2008. Again Fiscal year start to date. I am in the remodeling industry, we do not build new houses or spec homes or developments, we remodel existing homes. We have out performed 4 out of 6 of our peers in the Lake Sunapee region.

Description 2008 V 2007 2009 V 2008

Sales volume +8% -49%


Our company is now half the size it was in 2007 in all aspects and that started in November of 2008. Like I said we out performed 4 of our 6 direct competitors (companies of like size and sales volume) We do not count the back of the pickup truck or fly by nighters in our data, you have to have a showroom, professional appearence with vehicles and an annual sales volume of over 1 million (average).

The major difference in this year to last is that every job this year has had 4-6 bids submitted with most of the winning bidders bids at our cost. We rutinely follow up with customers and clients to get an idea of why and what caused them to go with someone else over us. Our company does not sell or deliver cheap, we sell and deliver professionalism and quality. If you do not believe me visit my website www.foremostbuilders.com .

Hopefully this will give you a better idea of what the difference between 2008 and 2009 is really like. Not some pipe dream that you think has nothing to do with the amount of boating activity on the lake. The speed limit has as much to do with it as the water temp.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by jmen24

I will agree that the difference is night and day so pay attention because I am going to help you out a little as you are trying to compare the 2008 economy with 2009. First you mentioned the gas, so that is covered as to the difference between the years, but I will post in my list anyway. All figures are fiscal year start to date.

Description 2008 2009

Nat. Unemployment 5.8% 9.7%

NH Unemployment 3.9% 6.9%

Gas $5.00 $3.00

The next list is my companies growth comparing 2008 to 2007 and 2009 to 2008. Again Fiscal year start to date. I am in the remodeling industry, we do not build new houses or spec homes or developments, we remodel existing homes. We have out performed 4 out of 6 of our peers in the Lake Sunapee region.

Description 2008 V 2007 2009 V 2008

Sales volume +8% -49%


Our company is now half the size it was in 2007 in all aspects and that started in November of 2008. Like I said we out performed 4 of our 6 direct competitors (companies of like size and sales volume) We do not count the back of the pickup truck or fly by nighters in our data, you have to have a showroom, professional appearence with vehicles and an annual sales volume of over 1 million (average).

The major difference in this year to last is that every job this year has had 4-6 bids submitted with most of the winning bidders bids at our cost. We rutinely follow up with customers and clients to get an idea of why and what caused them to go with someone else over us. Our company does not sell or deliver cheap, we sell and deliver professionalism and quality. If you do not believe me visit my website www.foremostbuilders.com .

Hopefully this will give you a better idea of what the difference between 2008 and 2009 is really like. Not some pipe dream that you think has nothing to do with the amount of boating activity on the lake. The speed limit has as much to do with it as the water temp.

You make very good points with numbers to support them. I hope things improve for your business...People are seeing signs of this and I hope they're right. We're having a little construction done and can see the builders are really hurting. Many people on forum are attributing all the change on the lake to weather and economy, and while they may contribute, I would add the following. August weather was great, and I boated more in August than I can remember. Secondly, gas prices, according to what people have said on this forum, are a major contributor to how much people boat. Now 9.7%/6.9%US/NH unemployment is not good, and many of the other 90.3%/93.1% have also been affected, but there are many on the lake who have been somewhat insulated(and I'm sorry it's not you)....many on pensions, many in the public and medical sectors, etc., etc.,and many who come to Winni are probably better off than the average person. There were many days in August when the traffic near me seemed almost normal; my point is that their behavior was different. The previously described GFBL's screaming 150' past the fisherman at 70 MPH were pretty much gone for example. As much as some on the forum would deny it, it can't all be explained by the economy and weather. The manner in which people are boating has changed for the better, even if fewer are boating. Good luck with your business...next year should be better.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

The previously described GFBL's screaming 150' past the fisherman at 70 MPH were pretty much gone for example.

SL or no SL, why is this an issue? Previous laws have determined that 150' was 'safe passage' at any speed.

I also tried to find the MP report of this incident, but was unsucessful. Would you happen to have a copy, or is this just another example of ficticious fearmongering?

Lack of education and CB's are the real issues on the lake. They were there in 2008 and they are here in 2009. The feel good law did nothing to solve any problems.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by Ryan

SL or no SL, why is this an issue? Previous laws have determined that 150' was 'safe passage' at any speed.

I also tried to find the MP report of this incident, but was unsucessful. Would you happen to have a copy, or is this just another example of ficticious fearmongering?

Lack of education and CB's are the real issues on the lake. They were there in 2008 and they are here in 2009. The feel good law did nothing to solve any problems.

Whoa, calm down there buckaroo....that's the point, speeding past a fisherman (or anyone else) at 70 MPH at a distance of 150' was legal until this year...unpleasant, irritating but legal. Not any longer. And despite some who contend otherwise, the Sl was not ONLY about safety. As far as your melodrama about ficticious fearmongering...chill.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

As far as your melodrama about ficticious fearmongering...chill.

Sorry. I'm calm now.

I like to enjoy the lake as much as you and everybody else. We both certainly have the right to take a stance in the debate. We can certainly agree to disagree. One issue I feel very strongly about and could be proven with facts, is the SL did not change anything it was intended to change.

For the record, I do not own a GFBL. I'm just rational.

Enjoy the afternoon!

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Sorry. I'm calm now.

I like to enjoy the lake as much as you and everybody else. We both certainly have the right to take a stance in the debate. We can certainly agree to disagree. One issue I feel very strongly about and could be proven with facts, is the SL did not change anything it was intended to change.

For the record, I do not own a GFBL. I'm just rational.

Enjoy the afternoon!

Most of us feel the same way as you and don't own a fast boat, but to steal Airwave's line from above- why let that get in the way of a good argument!

[XCR-700]

GFBL.

Odd man out again, but I for one thoroughly enjoy the sound of a marine engine with an open exhaust running across the lake.

And that’s day, night, anytime, ANYTIME.

I personally find it even more soothing and tranquil than hearing nothing but waves and crickets.

To me its just one of those sounds that brings back very positive memories of my childhood and spending summers on Winnipesaukee when there was less other background noise and you could hear the many boats with open exhaust buzzing the lake.

It was always a hallmark of good weather and good times, and a good running motor made the most wonderful drone off in the distance. I could always go to sleep with the sound of a powerboat off in the distance, and to date, its still one of the most memorable things that I long for from my youth.

I will gladly concur that some boats and operators can be very annoying at the docks when their boats hit some huge decibels and they are playing with the throttle like a goofball, but other than that I can think of few sounds that I enjoy more than a boat cruising across the lake with a harmonious tone filling the air.
p.s. as for being buzzed at 150’ given that my house is 40’ long, your talking 3 1/2 house lengths separation,,, Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5’ away,,, well 70 MPH at 150’ sounds not too bad if they are in full control and paying proper attention to what their doing.

Well this is just ones persons opinion (sadly,,,)

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

GFBL.

Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5’ away(

Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.

[gtagrip]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.

Don't give up your day job!

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by gtagrip

Don't give up your day job!

Hey at least it shows he has a sense of humor.... Many just come on, stir the pot and leave. Turtle has always stayed true to his beliefs and does explain them without insult. While I totally disagree with his position I did get a chuckle out of this..

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

Turtle has always stayed true to his beliefs and does explain them without insult...

NOT!

OCD I love ya man but Turtleboy is not innocent of hurling insults.
I know of at least three darts (maybe more at least one in this very thread) thrown at my personal life namely my profession.

TB - I'd appreciate it if you didn't drag my profession into the argument anymore. I have chosen to openly share my profession with the members of this site. As a matter of fact I have shared many details of my life with members of this site. To use my profession against me in a manor to discredit me or question my intelligence is pretty rude.

However, I do agree that at least TB owns up to the real agenda of the SL. Unlike some supporters who argue that the SL is purely about speed. I can at least tolerate and understand BI and TB's position on the matter. I really believe that the only thing we disagree on is how to corral the Boneheads of the lake.

HN

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Which is precisely why I have steadfastly refused to swim, fish, sail, or allow my family to go tubing on Rt 93.

Guess you could always declare Winnipesaukee your personal playground, otherwise EVERYONE using the lake needs to exercise plenty of caution all the time. Just being in the water is dangerous, are we going to start assigning lifeguards to every swimmer?

Sorry but I don’t see how getting run over at 45 is any less painful than getting run over at 70.

And there are those who will argue that the difference in speed will allow more time to get out of the way or for the driver to steer around, but personally don’t buy either argument blindly.

If your swimming and a power boat is bearing down on you, sorry your not too likely to be able to get out of their way at any speed.

As for the driver of the boat being able to observe, react, and successfully avoid any particular problem at various speeds, well I think the answer is a legitimate “maybe”. If he sees the problem, if he responds appropriately, if, if, if,,,,

I’ll even go so far as to say that there are more inherent risks operating a boat at 70 vs 45, maybe a lot more.

But what most here seem to be arguing is that the people operating boats over 45 are the minority of Winnipesaukee boaters and are NOT the problem when referring to boating safety issues.

The common theme I see is bad drivers, and I fully agree.

Speed does not = bad driver and bad driver does not = speed.

Sure they can be equal, but most here seem to agree that’s not what we observe. It’s the inexperienced and inconsiderate/irresponsible operators who are the problem. And most of those knuckle heads boats barely go 45 let alone do 70. There are exceptions to everything, but I’m referring to the bulk of the knuckleheads that you see on any given Saturday during the summer who are driving like kids at a go-kart track.

I enjoy boating and swimming as much as the next guy and almost always do so with my young children. And the vast majority of the time I’m boating on Winnipesaukee I’m cruising the lake at 35 – 45 MPH, but I do enjoy a good blast when the conditions allow, and don’t feel that if done responsibly I should be called a felon or looked down upon as some evil person with no regard for life, property, or common sense.

Call me optimistic, but I have faith that most of my fellow boaters operate responsibly, otherwise I wouldn’t risk bringing my children to a lake that allowed powerboats, there are options. I just don’t see boats doing 70 next to the sandbar all day long. Sorry, that’s not my experience, and I would hope its not yours.

So in my mind the whole speed limit thing is just feel-good legislation that accomplishes nothing in the way of tangible safety improvements. Sorry it completely misses the mark in my opinion. And I for one don’t buy into the concept that a reduction of 1 accident every year (or every 5 years) that might be directly attributed to high speed operation is a reasonable tradeoff for the loss felt by every other boater.

Sorry, I’ve had enough of this topic for now, Over and Out,,,

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by XCR-700

GFBL.

Odd man out again, but I for one thoroughly enjoy the sound of a marine engine with an open exhaust running across the lake.

And that’s day, night, anytime, ANYTIME.

I personally find it even more soothing and tranquil than hearing nothing but waves and crickets.

To me its just one of those sounds that brings back very positive memories of my childhood and spending summers on Winnipesaukee when there was less other background noise and you could hear the many boats with open exhaust buzzing the lake.

It was always a hallmark of good weather and good times, and a good running motor made the most wonderful drone off in the distance. I could always go to sleep with the sound of a powerboat off in the distance, and to date, its still one of the most memorable things that I long for from my youth.

I will gladly concur that some boats and operators can be very annoying at the docks when their boats hit some huge decibels and they are playing with the throttle like a goofball, but other than that I can think of few sounds that I enjoy more than a boat cruising across the lake with a harmonious tone filling the air.
p.s. as for being buzzed at 150’ given that my house is 40’ long, your talking 3 1/2 house lengths separation,,, Given that I drive Rt 93 every day with people passing me doing 80+ MPH, often less than 5’ away,,, well 70 MPH at 150’ sounds not too bad if they are in full control and paying proper attention to what their doing.

Well this is just ones persons opinion (sadly,,,)

I also feel the same way about above water exhaust. I personally love the sound and the louder the better... I may bet flamed for this but the one thing I don't like is when you hear that beautiful rumble coming from a far. The sound gets louder and louder. Excitement builds and I await to see a 40 ft GFB come around the corner and blow through the bay out into the next. But alas the sound gets closer and closer and the excitement builds and there it is.... A 18 ft bowrider with a tricked out exhaust on a six cyl. Reminds me of something like on "the fast and furious"... if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL

[pm203]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

I also feel the same way about above water exhaust. I personally love the sound and the louder the better... I may bet flamed for this but the one thing I don't like is when you hear that beautiful rumble coming from a far. The sound gets louder and louder. Excitement builds and I await to see a 40 ft GFB come around the corner and blow through the bay out into the next. But alas the sound gets closer and closer and the excitement builds and there it is.... A 18 ft bowrider with a tricked out exhaust on a six cyl. Reminds me of something like on "the fast and furious"... if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL

The Sl supporters say that the general public does not like performance boats. But, I cannot tell you how many times people take photos of my boat. A typical weekend day could be at least 5-6 photos.And, that's just in one day! Whenever I dock, there is always a crowd around the boat. If I go to leave a channel, alot of times, people will wave me through and tell me they want to watch and HEAR the boat get on plane. They really enjoy the visuals and sound as I do and most of us do. If only the rest of the world wasn't so uptight.

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by pm203

The Sl supporters say that the general public does not like performance boats. But, I cannot tell you how many times people take photos of my boat. A typical weekend day could be at least 5-6 photos.And, that's just in one day! Whenever I dock, there is always a crowd around the boat. If I go to leave a channel, alot of times, people will wave me through and tell me they want to watch and HEAR the boat get on plane. They really enjoy the visuals and sound as I do and most of us do. If only the rest of the world wasn't so uptight.

what type of boat??? now you have my interest peaked!

[pm203]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

what type of boat??? now you have my interest peaked!

Something to help me enjoy the lake with.

[Wolfeboro_Baja]

Originally Posted by pm203

Something to help me enjoy the lake with.

Very nice!! Any more details on that beauty you'd care to share? You could always PM.........

[OCDACTIVE]

Originally Posted by pm203

Something to help me enjoy the lake with.

Beautiful boat.. I think I've seen her around.. Will meet up with you next year and we can be law abiding citizens down the broads..

[pm203]

What happens in the broads stays in the broads.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by OCDACTIVE

if you have above water exhaust... Have the boat that goes with it.. LOL

I’m on board with your theme, and don’t have any use for a buzz – buzz boat that sounds like crap.

I’m referring to that sweet sound of a real marine engine.

Pretty much anything that’s a genuine classic, old woodies, 60’s and 70’ fiberglass jet drives and inboards, and even modern future classics like a Scarab or a Formula or a Fountain or whatever. Just love that deep, full-throated bellow filling Alton Bay or blasting across the Broads, GOOD Stuff for sure!!!

Maybe even throw in an old flat-bottom jet or v-drive with full open headers,,, well maybe not too many of them, but they were fun to see once or twice in a weekend.

Sure miss the good old days when we had real gas, and the marina smelled of the heavy premix in the crisp morning air, and the rumble of a big block exhaust lumbering along through the NWZ, it all said that we were gonna have FUN today!

No apologies, but that’s my idea of a good day, just like the ones I grew up with EVERY summer on Winnipesaukee!

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Whoa, calm down there buckaroo....that's the point, speeding past a fisherman (or anyone else) at 70 MPH at a distance of 150' was legal until this year...unpleasant, irritating but legal. Not any longer. And despite some who contend otherwise, the Sl was not ONLY about safety. As far as your melodrama about ficticious fearmongering...chill.

Just curious as to how you obtained the speed measurement of 70 mph.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Just curious as to how you obtained the speed measurement of 70 mph.

You're right...hmmm, maybe it was 80.

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

You're right...hmmm, maybe it was 80.

Maybe it was. But then again, maybe it was 40 and your perception of speeds is a bit off. Hmmmmmm.
My point is that you are throwing this 70 MPH speed out there like it is some kind of fact, when it is really just a guess on your part. Unless you had a radar gun, you have no way of knowing just how fast that boat was going.

[Turtle Boy]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Maybe it was. But then again, maybe it was 40 and your perception of speeds is a bit off. Hmmmmmm.
My point is that you are throwing this 70 MPH speed out there like it is some kind of fact, when it is really just a guess on your part. Unless you had a radar gun, you have no way of knowing just how fast that boat was going.

Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

[BroadHopper]

How come they swarm in droves when US Offshore had their races on Winnipesaukee a decade ago? How come the vintage race regatta is a very popular event at Wolfeboro? When the Winnipesaukee Water Ski Racing Association had their 65 mile catalina style marathon back in the 70's, that was a premier event that draw hundreds from all over the lake. Even the summer, I don't know how many times people ask me questions about my boat, photograph it, even ask me for a ride.

[Kracken]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

Pretty funny yet absurd, exaggerations and mis-truths to make a point.

I am all for better living through sarcasm but let’s try to support statements with facts.

[XCR-700]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

WOW, nothing like wiping out any trace of credibility you might have had a chance at.

I’m all for a spirited debate, and a touch of humor is a good way to lighten the tone, but with all things there is a tipping point, and I think that was it.

[Mee-n-Mac]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

Only because the Hornet slowed in the last second to line him up for a gun kill ! Turns out that "elchase" was the pilot and was doing some freelance work for "Dog the Bounty Hunter" ... you know, catching some felons. He got a lil carried away.

[Kracken]

My coffee just came out of my nose

thanks

[VtSteve]

It would have been pretty easy for El to catch felons if he had been at the Town Docks back when Littlefield staggered into his boat. Seeing him try to leave before untying the boat would have been another indication that perhaps he was over served? Sometimes people will do most anything to avoid a DRAM shop claim.

Just sayin......

"And state law gives boaters 48 hours to report accidents to the Marine Patrol if they believe the damages are less than $500. That could have been a factor in Littlefield's case because he did not turn himself in to the Marine Patrol until the deadline was approaching, making any test for alcohol impairment irrelevant.
Authorities and Littlefield was with family and friends all day on Aug. 11, boating, drinking, and partying from noon until about 9 p.m. Witnesses said they saw him later at a local restaurant where he danced by himself and, later, slumped over a table with his head bobbing and eyes closed.
At about 9:30, Littlefield allegedly took his boat out onto Meredith Bay where, in the vicinity of the Grouse Point Club, he rammed Hartman's boat. State experts estimate that Littlefield's Baja was traveling about 25 miles per hour when the crash occurred.
The accident did not surprise Carolyn Latti, of Latti & Anderson, a Boston law firm that specializes in maritime law.
Latti, who has worked on several civil cases related to boating mishaps on Winnipesaukee, said alcohol abuse is frequently a factor in serious accidents on the water.
"The majority of them involve drinking," she said. "It's drinking or inexperience.""

[hazelnut]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

At least that is funny!

Pretty good one....

Enjoy the weekend all. I am not headed up to the lake unfortuantely. Why is it that September is always so BUSY!!!

BTW No need to jump on TB here I think he was joking around.

[Resident 2B]

Originally Posted by hazelnut

At least that is funny!

Pretty good one....

Enjoy the weekend all. I am not headed up to the lake unfortuantely. Why is it that September is always so BUSY!!!

BTW No need to jump on TB here I think he was joking around.

The sad part of this is that it is becoming harder and harder to know when they are only joking.

R2B

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by Turtle Boy

Well actually, here's why it seemed so fast. At the same time the GFBL was going past my fishing boat, an F/A-18 fighter jet was going over my boat (also 150') in the exact same direction. The GFBL made it to Gilford first!

WOW! That is amazing! Great observation!

[jmen24]

Wow... I can't believe how close to peril I have lived my life.