Pending State Layoffs

Sunbeam lodge · 10-13-2009, 08:17 AM

Here's my take on the N.H. budget problem. The Gov is looking at layoffs to make his budget after the union turned down his proposal. My guess is that all the additional hires proposed that were included in the budget but not really needed will now be dropped. The budget will go down by the elimination of these positions and no layoffs will be required. The other approach would be to
move positions the state pays and move them into positions the Federal Goverment funds but expand their job description, wallah, no layoffs.

SAMIAM · 10-13-2009, 07:43 PM

For once I agree with the gov......all he asked was that state employees take one day off without pay every 6 weeks for two years.Not unreasonable,considering their Cadillac health plan,generous retirement and bennies.The private sector is in the toilet,but the unions wouldn't give an inch......I hope he lays off all of the hacks.
Oh......and to make matters worse,guess what the union bosses proposed???
An INCOME TAX.....so all the rest of us can support their sweet deal.
Good for the gov for standing up to them.

BroadHopper · 10-13-2009, 10:05 PM

Are pretty much Republicans and Non Union. Now that the Democrats taken over and the Unions are the bosses, the state is in a HUGE mess.

Don't blame it on us natives............................

fatlazyless · 10-14-2009, 06:32 AM

Just a thought. It seems pretty unsual that the majority of union state employees would vote for 700 terminations and not for 19 self-imposed furlough days which added up to a 4% pay cut spread out over two years. Where is the team spirit that bonds all the state employees together into a motivated state team? A 4% over-all, pay cut with 19 days off verses 700 terminations......seems like a no-brainer?

And, they call the S.E.A., the State Employees Association........... a union? Seems llke "all for one, and one for all" was replaced with "none for all, and each to his/her own." Tough nuggies for the last 700 new hires.

AKADQ · 10-14-2009, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

For once I agree with the gov......all he asked was that state employees take one day off without pay every 6 weeks for two years.Not unreasonable,considering their Cadillac health plan,generous retirement and bennies.The private sector is in the toilet,but the unions wouldn't give an inch......I hope he lays off all of the hacks.
Oh......and to make matters worse,guess what the union bosses proposed???
An INCOME TAX.....so all the rest of us can support their sweet deal.
Good for the gov for standing up to them.

Well Said SAMIAM. I would like to think most of the state employees get it because we know the union doesn't. I to applaud the governor on this but I still will never understand politics when it comes to "Big" government spending in this country. It's a very simple business model, don't spend more than you bring in. In "small" business we deal with this concept and understand it very well, those who don't follow this don't make it in the real business world.

NoRegrets · 10-14-2009, 06:54 AM

I feel bad for the individuals but I am pleased the unions will be loosing revenue from many dues paying members.
The size of NH state government has grown beyond what it should be since we have gone "Blue". We do not need the state to hold our hands and help us cross the streets. They need department consolidation and reduction at the top. I do believe Gov Lynch gets it but has so many trying to get a free handout.

Too bad Union bosses! Maybe they should get cut.

Happy Gourmand · 10-14-2009, 06:58 AM

Once again the members were sold down the river by their union management who were doing nothing except looking out for their OWN good. They called the Gov's bluff...he didn't blink...and now they feel like they should have an opportunity to return to the bargaining table.
Sorry folks...your opportunity has come and is now gone.
I am sorry for all the folks who will lose their jobs, especially during these hard times. But like the show "Deal or No Deal", they should have taken the deal.

chipj29 · 10-14-2009, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

For once I agree with the gov......all he asked was that state employees take one day off without pay every 6 weeks for two years.Not unreasonable,considering their Cadillac health plan,generous retirement and bennies.The private sector is in the toilet,but the unions wouldn't give an inch......I hope he lays off all of the hacks.
Oh......and to make matters worse,guess what the union bosses proposed???
An INCOME TAX.....so all the rest of us can support their sweet deal.
Good for the gov for standing up to them.

Great post, couldn't agree more.

Emjay · 10-14-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Once again the members were sold down the river by their union management who were doing nothing except looking out for their OWN good. They called the Gov's bluff...he didn't blink...and now they feel like they should have an opportunity to return to the bargaining table.
Sorry folks...your opportunity has come and is now gone.
I am sorry for all the folks who will lose their jobs, especially during these hard times. But like the show "Deal or No Deal", they should have taken the deal.

I agree. These are hard times and I'm tired of the greed and sense of entitlement by these state employees. It's sad really that they couldn't make any concessions in order to save the misery of 700 who will lose their jobs.

I don't agree that going "blue" is the cause.

Revenues may be down because so many people have lost their jobs - cannot pay their real estate taxes - homes have been foreclosed on. It's a huge mess, so don't blame the Dems - think about on whose "watch" most of these problems began.

Argie's Wife · 10-14-2009, 07:33 AM

The really sad thing about this...

Do you have any idea what this is going to cost the tax payers in legal fees? Seriously. What a waste!

And the day off every six weeks... why not just close state gov those days - totally closed - and save energy. Shut off lights, computers, etc. - have a "green day" if you will. That's REAL cost savings. Perhaps they could do that and have the off day once every 8 or 10 weeks as opposed to once every 6 weeks.

Just a thought and too much coffee.

Onshore · 10-14-2009, 07:37 AM

...not a union member.

TiltonBB · 10-14-2009, 07:43 AM

A lot of the problems, especially the housing and banking problems, began on the watch of, and were instigated by people like Barney Frank and Al Sharpton insisting on everyone's "right" to home ownership. The standards for qualifying for a mortgage were reduced to the point that you only needed a pulse and a pen to sign the documents. Once the changed requirements were proposed, any conservatives who spoke or voted against these policies were called "mean spirited" by the liberals.

This layoff is a good opportunity for government (and taxpayers) to find out that we probably do not need as many state employees as exist today. In the next few years as the government continues to function just fine and deliver the same services with fewer employees, it is doubtful that the taxpayers will even notice the difference. And, since government exists to serve the taxpayers, what is the problem?

Yosemite Sam · 10-14-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Are pretty much Republicans and Non Union. Now that the Democrats taken over and the Unions are the bosses, the state is in a HUGE mess.

Don't blame it on us natives............................

I have always wondered how many NH natives were either Republican or Democrat and which ones were union and non-union. Now I have someone to go to for the answer.

How many NH natives are Replublican?
How many NH natives are Democrat?
How many NH natives are Democrat union members?
How many NH natives are Democrat non-union members?
How many NH natives are Republican union members?
How many NH natives are Republican non-union members?

In order for you to say that most Republicans are Non Union and Democrats have taken over and the Unions are the bosses, and that the state is in a HUGE mess because of that, you must have some sort of data to back that up.

I can’t wait to put this data in an excel spreadsheet and then produce some fancy charts showing what you said to be true.

sa meredith · 10-14-2009, 07:58 AM

Every time I open the paper and read a story about a freakin' teachers/police/firefighters/state workers union failing to make union concessions, if baffles me.
It's like, because they get paid by the state, they somehow think they are immune to the current economic climate. I almost find it to be arrogant.
All around them, there friends/family/nieghbors are doing whatever they can to keep there jobs. Many accepting huge pay cuts, and huge reductions in benefits. But not people paid by the state...nooooooo. "Hey, man. I gut (sic) a contract!"

BroadHopper · 10-14-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I have always wondered how many NH natives were either Republican or Democrat and which ones were union and non-union. Now I have someone to go to for the answer.

How many NH natives are Replublican?
How many NH natives are Democrat?
How many NH natives are Democrat union members?
How many NH natives are Democrat non-union members?
How many NH natives are Republican union members?
How many NH natives are Republican non-union members?

In order for you to say that most Republicans are Non Union and Democrats have taken over and the Unions are the bosses, and that the state is in a HUGE mess because of that, you must have some sort of data to back that up.

I can’t wait to put this data in an excel spreadsheet and then produce some fancy charts showing what you said to be true.

NH natives don't need fancy charts or fancy numbers. You just have to look at out history! The Republicans contolled the legislature for over 90 years! As for union, the majority of mfg companies in NH are still non-union! The largest employer in the state, BAE Systems, is non union.

Yosemite Sam · 10-14-2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

NH natives don't need fancy charts or fancy numbers. You just have to look at out history! The Republicans contolled the legislature for over 90 years! As for union, the majority of mfg companies in NH are still non-union! The largest employer in the state, BAE Systems, is non union.

Thank you for a typical Republican answer.

Happy Gourmand · 10-14-2009, 08:24 AM

Does it really matter? I would much prefer that our Governor fix the problem rather than fix the blame. Let the pundits fix the blame.
Seems like the Blues and the Reds on this forum agree that the Gov is taking the right course of action even though there is truly no real winner in this issue.

Yosemite Sam · 10-14-2009, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom Gourmand

Does it really matter? I would much prefer that our Governor fix the problem rather than fix the blame. Let the pundits fix the blame.
Seems like the Blues and the Reds on this forum agree that the Gov is taking the right course of action even though there is truly no real winner in this issue.

Very well said and I agree 100%.

twoplustwo · 10-14-2009, 10:47 AM

Ditto sam, ditto the phantom. Since we're pointing fingers, I'm not a native, have been here 16 years via Philly, am a bleeding heart liberal Dem, and am as anti-union as it gets. IMO, unions in this day and age exist for no other reason than self-preservation. They certainly don't represent the common employee.

Calling the Gov's bluff was one of the most phenomenal displays of dumbassery I've seen in my lifetime, and I am glad he's nailing them on it.

gravy boat · 10-14-2009, 11:42 AM

This is the most annoying news item of late, IMHO.

Somehow 59% of the union members were convinced that this was the right thing to do for the common good. High probability that there will be a bunch who voted with the majority, only to find themselves without work and on the local news complaining that they were affected.

I do feel bad for those in the minority that will lose their jobs. What did the union members expect? Lynch is a business man and has had to make difficult decisions regarding layoffs in the past. why should now be different?

Welcome the the real world.

SIKSUKR · 10-14-2009, 11:50 AM

Interestingly enough, it looks like Dems and Reps agree with the Gov on this one. I know I totally support his position here and I'm not a Dem. Besides the sadness of the people being layed off, it's nice to see the union shoot itself in the foot and lose all that union dues income.

Irish mist · 10-14-2009, 06:40 PM

There would have been no need for layoffs if the democrats had not increased spending for the last 6 years. In one two year cycle they went up on the budget over 17% all the time knowing that the economy was slowing down. This current 2 year cycle sees spending up 8%......there is no excuse for this ! This kind of mismamagement is typical of this party.....which is why they have been out of power in NH for over 100 years, and I expect will be back out of power in 2010.

The NHGOP is not innocent in this mess. The republicans had grown lazy and weak and just thought that by showing up they were going to get elected forever. Well.......it don't work that way as they found out, and we are all suffering because of their arrogence. We have had 37 tax increases in this small state in the last 6 years. This can't go on any longer.

Slickcraft · 10-14-2009, 07:34 PM

I agree with what the Gov had to do and just can’t see any logic to the union leadership’s position.

When the union management came out against the proposal; they set-up an “each person for themselves” situation in the union. I suspect that many who felt vulnerable to a layoff voted for the Gov’s proposal and that many who felt secure in their jobs voted against it. Let someone else take the hit so I don’t have to take furlough days. This looks more like survival of the fittest rather than “collective” bargaining.

Sunbeam lodge · 10-14-2009, 08:07 PM

Going back to the original post. The real reason they voted this way is because only phantom workers will go. They have already figured out how to make it look like the layoffs occurred but I guarantee they will not reduce the union membership headcount. It is all going to be done with the usual smoke and mirrors. Follow this very closely and you will see that the budget will be met by not hiring the proposed additions they put in the budget.

SteveA · 10-15-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

Ditto sam, ditto the phantom. Since we're pointing fingers, I'm not a native, have been here 16 years via Philly, am a bleeding heart liberal Dem, and am as anti-union as it gets. IMO, unions in this day and age exist for no other reason than self-preservation. They certainly don't represent the common employee.

Calling the Gov's bluff was one of the most phenomenal displays of dumbassery I've seen in my lifetime, and I am glad he's nailing them on it.

I'm the same "bleeding heart liberal Dem", and agree that the unions simply blew this one, badly. Good for the Governor.

Unions everywhere have to remember " When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail" . Times and situations have changed. They can't expect to keep doing the same thing the same way and expect different results. JMHO

Yosemite Sam · 10-15-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbeam lodge

Here's my take on the N.H. budget problem. The Gov is looking at layoffs to make his budget after the union turned down his proposal. My guess is that all the additional hires proposed that were included in the budget but not really needed will now be dropped. The budget will go down by the elimination of these positions and no layoffs will be required. The other approach would be to
move positions the state pays and move them into positions the Federal Goverment funds but expand their job description, wallah, no layoffs.

Guess again my friend. Read this article that is in the Concord Monitor today

NoRegrets · 10-15-2009, 07:27 AM

If you look at the list of state agencies (http://www.nh.gov/government/agencies.html) and count, I think there are around 275 of them. The first agency identified in the article was the Health and Human services which has a budget exceeding 2 billion dollars (they must generate revenue or get alot of fed dollars). I wonder if these 250 jobs lost represents less than 1 thousand of 1 percent. This may just be a feel good process and reaffirm who is the boss (not the unions). I totally agree with the governer on this.

caloway · 10-15-2009, 08:12 AM

"Barwell said the union plans to file appeals "on almost every layoff notice given.""

Good to hear the union is continuing to provide value...

By the way, to answer the question posed above about native/migrant republican/democrat: http://www.carseyinstitute.unh.edu/p...-NHVoter08.pdf

As for the union/non-union dem/repub, I think we all know the answer there.

Yosemite Sam · 10-15-2009, 08:15 AM

I really feel sorry for this gentleman:

Woodsy · 10-15-2009, 08:55 AM

I think the situation could have been handled better by both sides! I am def not a lover of unions, however I think the state employees have a point...

Your boss comes to you and says that in order to stay within his budget to prevent layoffs and keep your job you need to take a pay cut (furlough)... he wants you to sign a 2 year contract (legally binding) to effect this... essentially tieing your hands to the new contract terms...

You agree to the furlough as long as the boss agrees not to lay you off..

Boss will not promise no layoffs...

If you agreed with the contracted pay cut you could still lose your job. Why agree to anything? Why not take your chances, see where the chips fall? Worse case is layoff or job transfer... and given the large number of state employees, the odds are in your favor that you will still have your job...

Of course if its bad this time around.... wait until the Supreme Court tells the Gov he cant have the 110 million in malpractice funds!

Woodsy

RI Swamp Yankee · 10-15-2009, 11:00 AM

Similar situation in RI. After much shouting (figuratively) the unions agreed to unpaid days off rather that lay off the last 1,000 hired.

In the private sector we had no choice. The company I work for told us in April that we would take 5 unpaid days from June through September. We are not in a union. Most of us figured that was better than laying off people that needed jobs in these hard times. Then the company then went ahead with layoffs too!

I was one of 3 out of the 9 in my building that were laid off in May.

SAMIAM · 10-15-2009, 06:20 PM

Yosmite....Sorry for this guy? are you {kidding} me?? That was such a set up. First of all, the hack has not lost his retirement and bennies...just a temporary vacation until he's reinstated. Also, his wife is a hack....together they're making 100K plus and their bennies are probably worth another 50K.
63 years old....and just bought a house??? Car payment?...oh,boo hoo...guess he'll have to drive the state car.
Oh, forgot to mention....WE are paying for it.

NoBozo · 10-15-2009, 07:24 PM

One of our RI town employees (I forget which town because this stuff happens ALL the time down here) has been on Paid Leave for the past 13 years because he has high blood pressure. He's collected over a Million Dollars during this period. A local PRO.JO (Newspaper) investigative reporter discovered this this week.

...Nope: Not making it up.

NB

Puck · 10-15-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Yosmite....Sorry for this guy? are you {kidding} me?? That was such a set up. First of all, the hack has not lost his retirement and bennies...just a temporary vacation until he's reinstated. Also, his wife is a hack....together they're making 100K plus and their bennies are probably worth another 50K.
63 years old....and just bought a house??? Car payment?...oh,boo hoo...guess he'll have to drive the state car.
Oh, forgot to mention....WE are paying for it.

Wow, that is one of the most hateful things I've read in a while. How do you know this guy is a hack? You know his wife too? What make's you think either of them ever had a state car?

This isn't about the Governor or the union, it's about a guy that got laid off, through no fault of his own, after 20 + years with the same employer. He deserves the same respect and sympathy as every other worker that's been laid off whether he's in the private or public sector. Hopefully for him, coming from the Revenue Department he has an accounting background, since right about now that's one of the few fields that still presents a decent number of opportunities. Best of luck to him and everyone else that is trying to find a job and get back on their feet, regardless of where they may have worked before.

Sunbeam lodge · 10-16-2009, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Guess again my friend. Read this article that is in the Concord Monitor today

Read carefully!
"60 MOVED to lower paying jobs" Not laid off
$2 Billion Health and human serv dept, "layoffs REASSIG , DEMOTIONS and eliminate funded VACANT positions" Some are funded by Fed money so they could be spared.
layoffs or REASSIGNED at Hospital
Dept of Env serv "layoffs DEMOTIONS complete.
Even though it is tough to lose any income by thse efforts . I have been in the business for many years and the actual job layoffs will affect very few people
and I hate to see any one out of work. But really go throught he 275 departments listed in the concord Monitor site and the state is out of control.

Happy Gourmand · 10-16-2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Yosmite....Sorry for this guy? are you s&#@*ing me?? That was such a set up.First of all,the hack has not lost his retirement and bennies...just a temporary vacation until he's reinstated.Also,his wife is a hack....together they're making 100K plus and their bennies are probably worth another 50K.
63 years old....and just bought a house??? Car payment?...oh,boo hoo...guess he'll have to drive the state car.
Oh,forgot to mention....WE are paying for it.

This is one of the most mean spirited posts I've read in some time. Samiam, I'm surprised and disappointed by the source.

Argie's Wife · 10-16-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

Yosmite....Sorry for this guy? are you {kidding} me?? That was such a set up. First of all, the hack has not lost his retirement and bennies...just a temporary vacation until he's reinstated. Also, his wife is a hack....together they're making 100K plus and their bennies are probably worth another 50K.
63 years old....and just bought a house??? Car payment?...oh,boo hoo...guess he'll have to drive the state car.
Oh, forgot to mention....WE are paying for it.

Seriously... did you listen to the video before you posted?

This guy's worked for 23 years on the job and he's NOT married - he's engaged. You call his "wife" a "hack" - do you know her?

He's in an administrative position, meaning he's a behind-the-scenes person, so it's quite likely he's NOT driving a state car. His fiancee works for the Dept of Revenue and although the report didn't mention her position, I'm not sure how you got the number of $100K plus for their combined income. And how the heck do you know he's going to get reinstated? This guy voted for the contract that was rejected by the majority of the union...

So, if someone has longevity on the job, happens to work for the state, receives benefits, and gets a pink slip, then they deserve it, right? Well, isn't that YOUR logic in your post?

WinnDixie · 10-16-2009, 10:03 AM

Thanks, Argie'sWife.

fatlazyless · 10-16-2009, 10:05 AM

Oh. come on folks, you should go a little easier on Samian than that. As someone running a small business that depends on keeping the restaurant customer happy, it is understandable how he feels some enmity toward the state employees who need just to show up for work each day. After reading about all the state job perks like sick days, paid vacation, unused sick days, state motor vehicles, pensions and pay rates....and then realizing just who is doing the heavy lifting to pay for everything....I think you know what I am getting at.

Argie's Wife · 10-16-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Oh. come on folks, you should go a little easier on Samian than that. As someone running a small business that depends on keeping the restaurant customer happy, it is understandable how he feels some enmity toward the state employees who need just to show up for work each day. After reading about all the state job perks like sick days, paid vacation, unused sick days, state motor vehicles, pensions and pay rates....and then realizing just who is doing the heavy lifting to pay for everything....I think you know what I am getting at.

Oh, so just because they work for the State then character assassination is ok? Good grief!

I'm a small business owner and I don't feel enmity towards state employees. I could "get a job" and farm the raising of my kids out to someone else quite easily. Like all other self-employed or small business owners, I don't get a vacation or a sick day. If it wasn't for my husband's job we could not afford health insurance.

Keep in mind, state workers pay taxes and some of the departments are self-funded or bring in revenue. When fees and taxes are increased for us, they pay them too. They're not exempt from property taxes, car registration fees, etc.

Get real - the problem isn't the state workers - it's the government who approves the budgets, doesn't trim the fat, increases the taxes and fees during one of the worst fiscal years we've ever seen in this state - even votes raises for themselves - that are the real problem. Not Joe State-Worker.

But like I said, I could "get a job" - it's my choice. I'm not going to be bitter because I'm self-employed or a small business owner or whatever. I just don't see the reason for calling him a "hack" when he voted for the contract that the majority of his union members voted down!

jmen24 · 10-16-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

Get real - the problem isn't the state workers - it's the government who approves the budgets, doesn't trim the fat, increases the taxes and fees during one of the worst fiscal years we've ever seen in this state - even votes raises for themselves - that are the real problem. Not Joe State-Worker.

Like the saying goes. Men and women do not fight wars, Governments do.

As an aside, I see where SAMIAM is coming from, but AW is correct the state has allowed this get to this level. It is hard not feel the same way SAMIAM does when you go to DMV and it takes all day (even though 6 people are chating at the coffee maker out back), or you travel past workers on the side of the road and they have six people performing the task that one on my crew does. When the ax falls it is typically not the person that lifted it that gets hurt. But the state is not run like a business (even though it should be) so for some reason most people in government jobs do not feel the same pinch as the rest of us in the private sector. The difference is that we do not get TV time to tell our story of how terrible this downturn is for us.

I know this is the typical feel good, heart tugging story that WMUR likes to splurt all over us. The idea is I do not want to hear someone telling me how awful things are in his life, just because he is affected by a layoff that has received a lot of air time. I could give a list and I am sure everyone on this board could as well, of people that have lost jobs in the last year.

Chickie · 10-16-2009, 01:13 PM

I am acquainted with a number of state employees, but do not know of any who have become billionaires working for the State of N.H. Most are average Joe’s and Jane’s out trying to make a living and raise their families, just as their counterparts in the private sector are doing. I think there is a bit of vindictiveness rearing its head here. I certainly agree that the union leadership did not serve its members well by recommending that they reject the contract to allow furlough days – an ill-advised decision many will pay dearly for. However, to paint all State Employees with a broad brush is just unfair.

Yosemite Sam · 10-16-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

Like the saying goes. Men and women do not fight wars, Governments do.

As an aside, I see where SAMIAM is coming from, but AW is correct the state has allowed this get to this level. It is hard not feel the same way SAMIAM does when you go to DMV and it takes all day (even though 6 people are chating at the coffee maker out back), or you travel past workers on the side of the road and they have six people performing the task that one on my crew does. When the ax falls it is typically not the person that lifted it that gets hurt. But the state is not run like a business (even though it should be) so for some reason most people in government jobs do not feel the same pinch as the rest of us in the private sector. The difference is that we do not get TV time to tell our story of how terrible this downturn is for us.

I know this is the typical feel good, heart tugging story that WMUR likes to splurt all over us. The idea is I do not want to hear someone telling me how awful things are in his life, just because he is affected by a layoff that has received a lot of air time. I could give a list and I am sure everyone on this board could as well, of people that have lost jobs in the last year.

Quote:

As an aside, I see where SAMIAM is coming from

Just where is SAMIAN coming from anyway. Did he have a state government job at one time and knows first hand what they do?

Quote:

It is hard not feel the same way SAMIAM does when you go to DMV and it takes all day

Just what DMV do you go to? Every time I go there, it doesn’t take long at all.

Quote:

or you travel past workers on the side of the road and they have six people performing the task that one on my crew does.

Please, stop blowing your own horn all the time. How do you know what each worker is doing by just passing by?

Quote:

But the state is not run like a business (even though it should be)

Not run like a business? Please tell me how they can improve so that they run their business just like you do.

Quote:

so for some reason most people in government jobs do not feel the same pinch as the rest of us in the private sector. The difference is that we do not get TV time to tell our story of how terrible this downturn is for us small business'.

Have you not been watching TV and seen all of the private sector people talking about how this has hurt them. They are on almost everyday.

caloway · 10-16-2009, 01:59 PM

Having just been through 3 hrs at a Mass DMV to pay $170 to correct their problem, I can tell you that I'll take the near-sighted, rule-loving shrew in the Epping DMV any day

The same goes for every other department I've interacted with as well. A few months ago, an engineer at the DES spent an hour talking with me about a local dump AND followed up on the discussion as promised. Just try to find that conscientiousness anywhere else.

I don't think we should nickel-and-dime people in gov't. Pay them an honest wage with good benefits and fire them if they suck. 50k sounds pretty reasonable to me for somebody with 23 years on the job.

jmen24 · 10-16-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Just where is SAMIAN coming from anyway. Did he have a state government job at one time and knows first hand what they do?

I do not know whether he worked in the state or not, my comment was in regard to running a private business compared to how the state runs. For all I know SAMIAM could be going in a different direction than I am thinking. I should have written "I think" I know where he is coming from!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Just what DMV do you go to? Every time I go there, it doesn’t take long at all.

Your right, The DMV in Concord is a joke, granted the one I use NOW in West Leb is not usually busy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Please, stop blowing your own horn all the time. How do you know what each worker is doing by just passing by?

Why, am I making you, your company or previous work history look bad? A spade is spade and when someone wants you to stop talking about how you perform your job, it typically means you are out performing them. And honestly, other than my ad in the classified section, I have not told anyone that they should use my company, I have mostly offered advice to the folks here that gives them an idea of what to expect when dealing with a contractor or perform a repair on their own property. Call us up, the information is in the ad, do not tell who you are and have us do work for you, don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

I travel up and down 89 to various jobs in the area. Just last week I traveled past a state crew reworking a section of guardrail at 8:30am with four guys standing behind the truck and one guy unbolting a post and the other digging around a broken post. Drive back by (other direction now) at 1:00pm and only half (3-maybe 4) of the broken posts have been replaced. Drive back by the next morning and construction barrels are set in front of the area because they could not finish the replacement of 30 feet of guardrail in one day. That tells me that efficiency is not high on the list. See when you are not working with a fixed quote to perform your work it really does not matter how long it takes you, but when you do, as in the private sector efficiency matters! But again you are right, I do not know what each specific persons task was as I drove by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Not run like a business? Please tell me how they can improve so that they run their business just like you do.

How about working from a pool of money that you are going to get, not what you would like to get. Not much in the of competition out there for the state, so why reduce overhead, why reduce burden, why reduce cost, because you will still be in business tomorrow if you are the state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

Have you not been watching TV and seen all of the private sector people talking about how this has hurt them. They are on almost everyday.

Well I do not watch TV everyday so you may be right on that one.

By the way, I am enjoying "the new sheriff in town" tone you provide in your posts.

Ropetow · 10-16-2009, 03:51 PM

The budget mess can be blamed on many, but Gov. Lynch bears the ultimate responsibility. He was the one that allowed his comrades in the Democratic majority to dramatically increase the state budget to fund social welfare programs, even last spring when everyone knew the economy was bad and the folks were hurting. With his overwhelming popularity since being elected, he could have told his fellow Dems "NO!" to their drunken-sailor (apologies to all real drunken sailors) taxing and spending ways. Knowing that we had a huge hole in the budget, he could have and should have implemented layoffs, furloughs, etc. long ago, just as the private sector would have done. I'm on our local School Board and I know that hard choices will have to be made this spring. Show some real leadership, Gov. Lynch! I'm so disgusted by what's happening in Concord that I am tempted to run for State Rep. At least I will bring one voice for fiscal responsibility to Concord (and a vote for allowing the Marine Patrol to do its job of safety enforcement and not worry about unenforceable speed limits!).

Yosemite Sam · 10-16-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmen24

I do not know whether he worked in the state or not, my comment was in regard to running a private business compared to how the state runs. For all I know SAMIAM could be going in a different direction than I am thinking. I should have written "I think" I know where he is coming from!

Your right, The DMV in Concord is a joke, granted the one I use NOW in West Leb is not usually busy.

Why, am I making you, your company or previous work history look bad? A spade is spade and when someone wants you to stop talking about how you perform your job, it typically means you are out performing them. And honestly, other than my ad in the classified section, I have not told anyone that they should use my company, I have mostly offered advice to the folks here that gives them an idea of what to expect when dealing with a contractor or perform a repair on their own property. Call us up, the information is in the ad, do not tell who you are and have us do work for you, don't take my word for it, see for yourself.

I travel up and down 89 to various jobs in the area. Just last week I traveled past a state crew reworking a section of guardrail at 8:30am with four guys standing behind the truck and one guy unbolting a post and the other digging around a broken post. Drive back by (other direction now) at 1:00pm and only half (3-maybe 4) of the broken posts have been replaced. Drive back by the next morning and construction barrels are set in front of the area because they could not finish the replacement of 30 feet of guardrail in one day. That tells me that efficiency is not high on the list. See when you are not working with a fixed quote to perform your work it really does not matter how long it takes you, but when you do, as in the private sector efficiency matters! But again you are right, I do not know what each specific persons task was as I drove by.

How about working from a pool of money that you are going to get, not what you would like to get. Not much in the of competition out there for the state, so why reduce overhead, why reduce burden, why reduce cost, because you will still be in business tomorrow if you are the state.

Well I do not watch TV everyday so you may be right on that one.

By the way, I am enjoying "the new sheriff in town" tone you provide in your posts.

Thank you, I can't find fault with any of your responses.
Good job!

Yosemite Sam · 10-16-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ropetow

The budget mess can be blamed on many, but Gov. Lynch bears the ultimate responsibility. He was the one that allowed his comrades in the Democratic majority to dramatically increase the state budget to fund social welfare programs, even last spring when everyone knew the economy was bad and the folks were hurting. With his overwhelming popularity since being elected, he could have told his fellow Dems "NO!" to their drunken-sailor (apologies to all real drunken sailors) taxing and spending ways. Knowing that we had a huge hole in the budget, he could have and should have implemented layoffs, furloughs, etc. long ago, just as the private sector would have done. I'm on our local School Board and I know that hard choices will have to be made this spring. Show some real leadership, Gov. Lynch! I'm so disgusted by what's happening in Concord that I am tempted to run for State Rep. At least I will bring one voice for fiscal responsibility to Concord (and a vote for allowing the Marine Patrol to do its job of safety enforcement and not worry about unenforceable speed limits!).

Page right out of the old "Political Handbook"

10-13-2009, 08:17 AM	#1
Sunbeam lodge Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith/Naples Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 135 Thanked 50 Times in 26 Posts	Pending State Layoffs Here's my take on the N.H. budget problem. The Gov is looking at layoffs to make his budget after the union turned down his proposal. My guess is that all the additional hires proposed that were included in the budget but not really needed will now be dropped. The budget will go down by the elimination of these positions and no layoffs will be required. The other approach would be to move positions the state pays and move them into positions the Federal Goverment funds but expand their job description, wallah, no layoffs.

10-13-2009, 10:05 PM	#3
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,576 Thanks: 3,214 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	NH Natives Are pretty much Republicans and Non Union. Now that the Democrats taken over and the Unions are the bosses, the state is in a HUGE mess. Don't blame it on us natives............................ __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

10-14-2009, 06:32 AM	#4
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Just a thought. It seems pretty unsual that the majority of union state employees would vote for 700 terminations and not for 19 self-imposed furlough days which added up to a 4% pay cut spread out over two years. Where is the team spirit that bonds all the state employees together into a motivated state team? A 4% over-all, pay cut with 19 days off verses 700 terminations......seems like a no-brainer? And, they call the S.E.A., the State Employees Association........... a union? Seems llke "all for one, and one for all" was replaced with "none for all, and each to his/her own." Tough nuggies for the last 700 new hires. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

10-14-2009, 06:58 AM	#7
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	The "Union" Once again the members were sold down the river by their union management who were doing nothing except looking out for their OWN good. They called the Gov's bluff...he didn't blink...and now they feel like they should have an opportunity to return to the bargaining table. Sorry folks...your opportunity has come and is now gone. I am sorry for all the folks who will lose their jobs, especially during these hard times. But like the show "Deal or No Deal", they should have taken the deal.

10-14-2009, 07:37 AM	#11
Onshore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 502 Thanks: 12 Thanked 423 Times in 145 Posts	For the record... ...not a union member.

10-13-2009, 07:43 PM	#2
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,676 Times in 586 Posts	For once I agree with the gov......all he asked was that state employees take one day off without pay every 6 weeks for two years.Not unreasonable,considering their Cadillac health plan,generous retirement and bennies.The private sector is in the toilet,but the unions wouldn't give an inch......I hope he lays off all of the hacks. Oh......and to make matters worse,guess what the union bosses proposed??? An INCOME TAX.....so all the rest of us can support their sweet deal. Good for the gov for standing up to them.

10-14-2009, 06:54 AM	#6
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	I feel bad for the individuals but I am pleased the unions will be loosing revenue from many dues paying members. The size of NH state government has grown beyond what it should be since we have gone "Blue". We do not need the state to hold our hands and help us cross the streets. They need department consolidation and reduction at the top. I do believe Gov Lynch gets it but has so many trying to get a free handout. Too bad Union bosses! Maybe they should get cut.

10-14-2009, 07:33 AM	#10
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	The really sad thing about this... Do you have any idea what this is going to cost the tax payers in legal fees? Seriously. What a waste! And the day off every six weeks... why not just close state gov those days - totally closed - and save energy. Shut off lights, computers, etc. - have a "green day" if you will. That's REAL cost savings. Perhaps they could do that and have the off day once every 8 or 10 weeks as opposed to once every 6 weeks. Just a thought and too much coffee.

10-14-2009, 07:43 AM	#12
TiltonBB Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Gilford, NH and Florida Posts: 3,007 Thanks: 699 Thanked 2,203 Times in 937 Posts	Yes but why A lot of the problems, especially the housing and banking problems, began on the watch of, and were instigated by people like Barney Frank and Al Sharpton insisting on everyone's "right" to home ownership. The standards for qualifying for a mortgage were reduced to the point that you only needed a pulse and a pen to sign the documents. Once the changed requirements were proposed, any conservatives who spoke or voted against these policies were called "mean spirited" by the liberals. This layoff is a good opportunity for government (and taxpayers) to find out that we probably do not need as many state employees as exist today. In the next few years as the government continues to function just fine and deliver the same services with fewer employees, it is doubtful that the taxpayers will even notice the difference. And, since government exists to serve the taxpayers, what is the problem?

10-14-2009, 07:58 AM	#14
sa meredith Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 986 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 32 Thanked 352 Times in 137 Posts	Don't understand Every time I open the paper and read a story about a freakin' teachers/police/firefighters/state workers union failing to make union concessions, if baffles me. It's like, because they get paid by the state, they somehow think they are immune to the current economic climate. I almost find it to be arrogant. All around them, there friends/family/nieghbors are doing whatever they can to keep there jobs. Many accepting huge pay cuts, and huge reductions in benefits. But not people paid by the state...nooooooo. "Hey, man. I gut (sic) a contract!"

10-14-2009, 08:24 AM	#17
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Dem/Rep Does it really matter? I would much prefer that our Governor fix the problem rather than fix the blame. Let the pundits fix the blame. Seems like the Blues and the Reds on this forum agree that the Gov is taking the right course of action even though there is truly no real winner in this issue.

10-14-2009, 10:47 AM	#19
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	dittos abound Ditto sam, ditto the phantom. Since we're pointing fingers, I'm not a native, have been here 16 years via Philly, am a bleeding heart liberal Dem, and am as anti-union as it gets. IMO, unions in this day and age exist for no other reason than self-preservation. They certainly don't represent the common employee. Calling the Gov's bluff was one of the most phenomenal displays of dumbassery I've seen in my lifetime, and I am glad he's nailing them on it.

10-14-2009, 11:42 AM	#20
gravy boat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Gilford year round, West Alton summers Posts: 589 Thanks: 596 Thanked 200 Times in 100 Posts	Agree with Twoplustwo This is the most annoying news item of late, IMHO. Somehow 59% of the union members were convinced that this was the right thing to do for the common good. High probability that there will be a bunch who voted with the majority, only to find themselves without work and on the local news complaining that they were affected. I do feel bad for those in the minority that will lose their jobs. What did the union members expect? Lynch is a business man and has had to make difficult decisions regarding layoffs in the past. why should now be different? Welcome the the real world.

10-14-2009, 11:50 AM	#21
SIKSUKR Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 5,075 Thanks: 215 Thanked 903 Times in 509 Posts	Interestingly enough, it looks like Dems and Reps agree with the Gov on this one. I know I totally support his position here and I'm not a Dem. Besides the sadness of the people being layed off, it's nice to see the union shoot itself in the foot and lose all that union dues income. __________________ SIKSUKR

10-14-2009, 06:40 PM	#22
Irish mist Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 683 Thanks: 127 Thanked 85 Times in 49 Posts	There would have been no need for layoffs if the democrats had not increased spending for the last 6 years. In one two year cycle they went up on the budget over 17% all the time knowing that the economy was slowing down. This current 2 year cycle sees spending up 8%......there is no excuse for this ! This kind of mismamagement is typical of this party.....which is why they have been out of power in NH for over 100 years, and I expect will be back out of power in 2010. The NHGOP is not innocent in this mess. The republicans had grown lazy and weak and just thought that by showing up they were going to get elected forever. Well.......it don't work that way as they found out, and we are all suffering because of their arrogence. We have had 37 tax increases in this small state in the last 6 years. This can't go on any longer. Last edited by Irish mist; 10-14-2009 at 07:28 PM.

10-14-2009, 07:34 PM	#23
Slickcraft Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Welch Island and The Taylor Community Posts: 3,303 Thanks: 1,223 Thanked 2,093 Times in 956 Posts	I agree with what the Gov had to do and just can’t see any logic to the union leadership’s position. When the union management came out against the proposal; they set-up an “each person for themselves” situation in the union. I suspect that many who felt vulnerable to a layoff voted for the Gov’s proposal and that many who felt secure in their jobs voted against it. Let someone else take the hit so I don’t have to take furlough days. This looks more like survival of the fittest rather than “collective” bargaining.

10-14-2009, 08:07 PM	#24
Sunbeam lodge Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Meredith/Naples Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 135 Thanked 50 Times in 26 Posts	Union Layoffs Going back to the original post. The real reason they voted this way is because only phantom workers will go. They have already figured out how to make it look like the layoffs occurred but I guarantee they will not reduce the union membership headcount. It is all going to be done with the usual smoke and mirrors. Follow this very closely and you will see that the budget will be met by not hiring the proposed additions they put in the budget.

10-15-2009, 07:27 AM	#27
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	If you look at the list of state agencies (http://www.nh.gov/government/agencies.html) and count, I think there are around 275 of them. The first agency identified in the article was the Health and Human services which has a budget exceeding 2 billion dollars (they must generate revenue or get alot of fed dollars). I wonder if these 250 jobs lost represents less than 1 thousand of 1 percent. This may just be a feel good process and reaffirm who is the boss (not the unions). I totally agree with the governer on this.

10-15-2009, 08:12 AM	#28
caloway Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: exeter, nh Posts: 73 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	from the article "Barwell said the union plans to file appeals "on almost every layoff notice given."" Good to hear the union is continuing to provide value... By the way, to answer the question posed above about native/migrant republican/democrat: http://www.carseyinstitute.unh.edu/p...-NHVoter08.pdf As for the union/non-union dem/repub, I think we all know the answer there.

10-15-2009, 08:15 AM	#29
Yosemite Sam Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lakes Region Posts: 395 Thanks: 81 Thanked 95 Times in 56 Posts	This is sad! I really feel sorry for this gentleman:

10-15-2009, 08:55 AM	#30
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	I think the situation could have been handled better by both sides! I am def not a lover of unions, however I think the state employees have a point... Your boss comes to you and says that in order to stay within his budget to prevent layoffs and keep your job you need to take a pay cut (furlough)... he wants you to sign a 2 year contract (legally binding) to effect this... essentially tieing your hands to the new contract terms... You agree to the furlough as long as the boss agrees not to lay you off.. Boss will not promise no layoffs... If you agreed with the contracted pay cut you could still lose your job. Why agree to anything? Why not take your chances, see where the chips fall? Worse case is layoff or job transfer... and given the large number of state employees, the odds are in your favor that you will still have your job... Of course if its bad this time around.... wait until the Supreme Court tells the Gov he cant have the 110 million in malpractice funds! Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

10-15-2009, 11:00 AM	#31
RI Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: North Kingstown RI Posts: 688 Thanks: 143 Thanked 83 Times in 55 Posts	Not only NH Similar situation in RI. After much shouting (figuratively) the unions agreed to unpaid days off rather that lay off the last 1,000 hired. In the private sector we had no choice. The company I work for told us in April that we would take 5 unpaid days from June through September. We are not in a union. Most of us figured that was better than laying off people that needed jobs in these hard times. Then the company then went ahead with layoffs too! I was one of 3 out of the 9 in my building that were laid off in May. __________________ Gene ~ aka "another RI Swamp Yankee"

10-15-2009, 06:20 PM	#32
SAMIAM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 2,896 Thanks: 334 Thanked 1,676 Times in 586 Posts	Yosmite....Sorry for this guy? are you {kidding} me?? That was such a set up. First of all, the hack has not lost his retirement and bennies...just a temporary vacation until he's reinstated. Also, his wife is a hack....together they're making 100K plus and their bennies are probably worth another 50K. 63 years old....and just bought a house??? Car payment?...oh,boo hoo...guess he'll have to drive the state car. Oh, forgot to mention....WE are paying for it.

10-15-2009, 07:24 PM	#33
NoBozo Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Portsmouth. RI Posts: 2,231 Thanks: 400 Thanked 460 Times in 308 Posts	Ok..OK..Rhode Island will raize you one. One of our RI town employees (I forget which town because this stuff happens ALL the time down here) has been on Paid Leave for the past 13 years because he has high blood pressure. He's collected over a Million Dollars during this period. A local PRO.JO (Newspaper) investigative reporter discovered this this week. ...Nope: Not making it up. NB

10-16-2009, 10:03 AM	#38
WinnDixie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 239 Thanks: 44 Thanked 75 Times in 17 Posts	Thanks, Argie'sWife.

10-16-2009, 10:05 AM	#39
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,753 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Oh. come on folks, you should go a little easier on Samian than that. As someone running a small business that depends on keeping the restaurant customer happy, it is understandable how he feels some enmity toward the state employees who need just to show up for work each day. After reading about all the state job perks like sick days, paid vacation, unused sick days, state motor vehicles, pensions and pay rates....and then realizing just who is doing the heavy lifting to pay for everything....I think you know what I am getting at. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

10-16-2009, 01:13 PM	#42
Chickie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 368 Thanks: 0 Thanked 67 Times in 38 Posts	State Employees I am acquainted with a number of state employees, but do not know of any who have become billionaires working for the State of N.H. Most are average Joe’s and Jane’s out trying to make a living and raise their families, just as their counterparts in the private sector are doing. I think there is a bit of vindictiveness rearing its head here. I certainly agree that the union leadership did not serve its members well by recommending that they reject the contract to allow furlough days – an ill-advised decision many will pay dearly for. However, to paint all State Employees with a broad brush is just unfair.

10-16-2009, 01:59 PM	#44
caloway Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: exeter, nh Posts: 73 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts	state workers Having just been through 3 hrs at a Mass DMV to pay $170 to correct their problem, I can tell you that I'll take the near-sighted, rule-loving shrew in the Epping DMV any day The same goes for every other department I've interacted with as well. A few months ago, an engineer at the DES spent an hour talking with me about a local dump AND followed up on the discussion as promised. Just try to find that conscientiousness anywhere else. I don't think we should nickel-and-dime people in gov't. Pay them an honest wage with good benefits and fire them if they suck. 50k sounds pretty reasonable to me for somebody with 23 years on the job.

10-16-2009, 03:51 PM	#46
Ropetow Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rochester, NH / Bartlett, NH Posts: 322 Thanks: 228 Thanked 33 Times in 13 Posts	it starts at the top The budget mess can be blamed on many, but Gov. Lynch bears the ultimate responsibility. He was the one that allowed his comrades in the Democratic majority to dramatically increase the state budget to fund social welfare programs, even last spring when everyone knew the economy was bad and the folks were hurting. With his overwhelming popularity since being elected, he could have told his fellow Dems "NO!" to their drunken-sailor (apologies to all real drunken sailors) taxing and spending ways. Knowing that we had a huge hole in the budget, he could have and should have implemented layoffs, furloughs, etc. long ago, just as the private sector would have done. I'm on our local School Board and I know that hard choices will have to be made this spring. Show some real leadership, Gov. Lynch! I'm so disgusted by what's happening in Concord that I am tempted to run for State Rep. At least I will bring one voice for fiscal responsibility to Concord (and a vote for allowing the Marine Patrol to do its job of safety enforcement and not worry about unenforceable speed limits!).