new $750,000 Meredith fire truck

fatlazyless · 11-18-2009, 08:29 AM

Today's Nov 18 www.citizen.com has an article on Laconia's new $879,000 - 100' aerial tower truck, and how the 20 year old truck it is replacing was sold to a Vermont fire dept for $20,000.

Old fire trucks never die, they just get sold off to another fire dept which has less taxpayer money to spend. No doubt, a smaart buy for a small Vermont volunteer fire dept who will renew-repair-replace and keep it going for another twenty years.

Property taxes are not all that based on one's ability to pay, and this truck will be paid with the Laconia property tax.

The Citizen article says that the fire dept has recently been training to operate the new truck at the now closed Freudenberg-NOK car parts factory on Hounsell Ave. Approximately 130 Freudenberg employees lost their good paying, manufactoring jobs there in 2008. As Laconia property tax payers who have lost their jobs they are probably not too pleased paying for a new $879,000 truck when the old one could have been kept going.

BroadHopper · 11-18-2009, 01:08 PM

Just got my Laconia tax bill with a big fat $300 increase for 6 months! Being unemployed for over a year, I am not pleased with the new truck. =(

I had a feeling there going to be a 'one up' when a neighboring fire department gets a new 'toy'.

Coolbreeze · 11-18-2009, 09:32 PM

Broadhopper,
Hang in there, something will give and hopefully you will be back to work. We are all hoping your unemployment will be over soon.

Argie's Wife · 11-18-2009, 10:20 PM

Have you considered what your home owners' insurance rates would climb to if your town did not have adequate fire safety equipment?

Yes, the equipment at your local fire station is audited by home owners' insurance company's underwriters and it is a HUGE factor in what you pay for rates. All Capital Improvement Plan items (such as this fire truck) are also considered when your town's credit rating is factored.

I would assume that the purchase was made via the Municipal buying plan, which allows for payments to be made over several years and gives towns better buying power when they join the plan. The money is raised via Warrant articles or at the town meeting.

Alton is seeking to purchase a new ladder truck this year and a no-frills model would be about $600K, I believe. The old truck has some rust issues and although it passed inspecting this year, that may not be true next year. A ladder truck is NOT something that you want to have a breakdown with or have to use as just a tank truck, which would be the fate with the old truck here in Alton. Planning ahead is best - for all.

fatlazyless · 11-19-2009, 10:10 AM

Well.......Alton could have purchased Laconia's twenty year old, ladder truck for $20,000 as did a fire dept from Vermont. Why....right now....that old Laconia ladder truck is probably sitting in a Vermont garage getting a thorough inspection of everything from bumper to bumper. And, in three months time, whatever needed repairing will be fixed and the old ladder truck will be good-to-go, and in use for many more years.

According to the Citizen article the old Laconia ladder truck was said to have the equivalent of 300,000 miles of use. As many readers here probably are not aware, it is pretty common for a commercial truck to be kept going until it gets to 900,000 or 1,000,000 miles so 300,000 miles is considered low miles.

Anyone know what Vermont town now has the ladder truck? Possibly, they have a website talking about their terrific $20,000 new-used ladder truck purchase, and how it came from a very wealthy NH waterfront town.

scubajay1153 · 11-19-2009, 11:30 AM

....because it's not worth my time to continue to have to go against misinformation and speculation.

Firstly, the newspaper article also stated the many reason why the truck was needing replacement (repairs, overweight,etc) so if one goes to the article FLL chose to only quote some of, that info would be easily gleaned.

The 1989 ladder truck was not only not sufficient for our needs but was not up to National Fire Standards which call for a fully enclosed cab with seating for all riders with appropriate seatbelts, only one rear axle which is no longer allowed in that with that weight / load design along with lack ability to hold the equipment needed for operation. It simply had out grown its useful life for our community. This vehicle was SOLD for $20,000. No where does it state how much that the next community will have to put into safety upgrades, corrosion repair/abatement, paint and other items to get into service into that community. It is not a plug and play truck for them, they will have to fork out more for certain. The truck originally cost over $500,000 so extrapolate that loss of value out on your brand new car and see what the percentage of resale value is and see what the final figure is. Take that tiny chunk of change and see what kind of used car you can buy and it's quality. Yep, thats right. Same thing here....

While I feel the sting of increases in tax bills as well as I am a property owner and taxpayer, I find issue with Broadhoppers comment. While that $300 increase plain takes a bite out of the wallet I can feel quite safe in guessing (high no doubt) that out of that $300 a miniscule amount went towards that new ladder truck. I would be shocked if the individual household paid more then the cost of a cup of coffee towards it. Have issues all you want as it is your right, but that truck didn't do the damage to your finances.

The estimate on miles is because we can not pinpoint a value of the wear and tear on the frame and motor of the truck while it is use as a ladder truck at a call or simple idling at the emergency scene. They have to estimate the engine hours into miles somehow and I honestly don't know the formula but I can assure you it is much more work on the truck and motor then the odometer implies.

And Broadhopper this truck was on the CIP for the city since before I was hired here in Christmas season 2001 so no "one upsmanship" was occurring. THis was a well thought out and planned replacement.

And FLL, last night I drove the "old" ladder truck to reported house fire. It is sitting at the Central Station, still in service, awaiting the other truck to get placed in service. So that "Vermont" department will just have to wait until we make the swap to the new truck so we don't lessen the protection we are offering to our citizens.

Also in the CIP is to replace the two old engines (30 yrs and 23 yrs respectively) with a new engine, and new pumper/tanker in the next few years. But don't worry, I rounded up the truck committee and we are off to check out a prospective and more FLL friendly (wallet wise) new unit that will be a cost effective unit, heck, we wont even have to air condition this beauty.....

Pineedles · 11-19-2009, 04:28 PM

A big thank you to Scubajay1153.

Coolbreeze · 11-19-2009, 08:43 PM

Well said scubajay!

fatlazyless · 11-19-2009, 08:48 PM

Thanks for the post ScubaJay and all the items on the trucks. It's a lot easier to understand a truck than a new building since everyone has experience with their car, and mileage , and repairs. You know, trucks are just like cars, except they are bigger.

There used to be an old fire pump carraige on display at the Meredith Mobil which looked like it got pulled by a single horse. Now, that would probably be very cost efficient.......a horse drawn fire pumper! No expensive diesel fuel needed......just a bag of Blue Seal to feed Ole Lucille.....at her daily feeding time.

By the way, I'm look'n for a job driv'n a tractor trailer, fire dept aerial tower with a big water tank and a big pump. Yes, I have the cdl-a, haz-mat, tanker, air brakes & med card endorsements. Where's my job? Maybe, in Vermont?

How's about I drive the old Laconia ladder truck to Vermont, and when I get there I say "Hello Vermont', and by the way, I come with your new-used $20,000 truck deal, as a driver.......what a deal!

BroadHopper · 11-19-2009, 09:55 PM

Guess I owe you an apology. It just that the timing kind of throw things out of perspective. Can't argue with your logic.

The city manager mention in the papers that asses values are down and thus raised the tax rate. While my tax rate is up the assess value did not go down. So I got a good bite! Ouch!

SIKSUKR · 11-20-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The city manager mention in the papers that asses values are down and thus raised the tax rate.

Who knew? I thought my rear end was holding its value quite well.

Argie's Wife · 11-20-2009, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Thanks for the post ScubaJay and all the items on the trucks. It's a lot easier to understand a truck than a new building since everyone has experience with their car, and mileage , and repairs. You know, trucks are just like cars, except they are bigger.

There used to be an old fire pump carraige on display at the Meredith Mobil which looked like it got pulled by a single horse. Now, that would probably be very cost efficient.......a horse drawn fire pumper! No expensive diesel fuel needed......just a bag of Blue Seal to feed Ole Lucille.....at her daily feeding time.

By the way, I'm look'n for a job driv'n a tractor trailer, fire dept aerial tower with a big water tank and a big pump. Yes, I have the cdl-a, haz-mat, tanker, air brakes & med card endorsements. Where's my job? Maybe, in Vermont?

How's about I drive the old Laconia ladder truck to Vermont, and when I get there I say "Hello Vermont', and by the way, I come with your new-used $20,000 truck deal, as a driver.......what a deal!

I hear that taxes are higher in VT....

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argie's Wife

I hear that taxes are higher in VT....

So, a high tax Vermont fire dept purchases a 20-year old, $20,000 ladder truck from Laconia, and low tax Laconia purchases a new 2009 $850,000, 100' aerial tower. And, from where does low tax Laconia get all that $850,000?

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

Beyond my huffing & puffing here....I still say...the 18000 population of Laconia would be better served if the town kept the old truck and used the $850,000 for dental cleaning & check-ups and oral health paid out to local dentists and oral hygienists. More Laconians would benefit from that than from a new truck.

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

Janet · 11-22-2009, 08:12 AM

Time to end this thread!?

Seeker · 11-24-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janet

Time to end this thread!?

I'll second that one!

twoplustwo · 11-22-2009, 08:19 AM

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives.

Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

Janet · 11-22-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000?

I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives.

Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

Well said twoplustwo

Yosemite Sam · 11-22-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoplustwo

If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

I'll second that motion!

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And, do the Laconia firefighters already get dental insurance as part of their pay package?

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Yosemite Sam · 11-22-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

They do?

scubajay1153 · 11-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Another BOLD LIE by FLL!

I won't bite to hard......because I DO NOT HAVE DENTAL and can't pay for the damage it will do to my mouth. The FF's and Police in the City DO NOT HAVE DENTAL because the City REFUSES to entertain the thought of offering it to us. We continue to ask, they continue deny. Period.

Heaven · 11-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...ok...so I'll answer my question......yes, the Laconia firefighters do indeed get dental coverage as it is a full-time fire dept as opposed to an on-call dept in Meredith.

And, while the 5 Meredith selectmen's position is considered to be a part time volunteer position, it does include a health and dental insurance policy.

If you are a Laconia or Meredith property tax payer, then you know very well if you have health & dental for yourself, while at the same time your property taxes are paying the health & dental for the town employees such as police, fire, town, school, & selectmen.

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Thank you for paying me to do my job. I endeavor to do the best possible job for you, the citizens of my town, for as long as I am in your employ.

Kamper · 11-23-2009, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

...ok...so I'll answer my question...... ...

....and where is the thankyou coming from them?

Are you for or against proper insurance for municipal employees? My boss thanks ME for my efforts when I get my check. Only a rat of an employer would fail to arrange some type of health insurance for employees who work a significant number of hours.

Are you for or against that fire truck? The new fire station?

I'm losing track of your positions due to jumping around on the various topics you've introduced in this thread, plus the opinions and counter-opinions you've expressed not only on other members' but on your own previous posts here. Would you be so kind as to say "I am for/against this." so all readers know what you are trying to say?

Thank you in advance for your consideration!

fatlazyless · 11-23-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamper

Are you for or against that fire truck?

Here's one for people to consider. While high tax Vermont makes do with a second hand, 20 year old, $20,000 ladder truck purchased from Laconia, low tax Laconia purchases a new $850,000 ladder truck.

So, what does this tell you?

So, who is really low tax, and who is really high tax: Vermont or New Hampshire?

Kamper · 11-23-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

... (Evasion, evasion, evasion) ...

Yeah. That's what I thought you'd say.

Have a nice day!

jmen24 · 11-23-2009, 10:08 AM

FLL, I will tell you what I know from my wife, who although was born in Maine, spend her school life in Vermont and transfered to a NH school in high school. That even though Vermont does have higher taxes, they put a considerable margin of those tax dollars into their school systems. Their schools are far superior to what is offered at most schools in NH that are twice the size of the ones in VT.

When she transfered into her final school in NH she had enough credits to graduate a year early without having to double up on courses.

FLL, does this town in VT have a name so that we can compare the population base against Laconia, not that it matters, but it might enlighten you on how they choose to spend their dollars.

4 for Boating · 11-23-2009, 11:16 AM

Just to toss my two cents in and to make my position clear on the truck, if the fire or police departments need something then I’m all for it if done in a proper purchasing/bid manner. Having said that and given the fact that Meredith may have needed these things in order to assure the people that help protect and respond to the community are in the best position to help, can someone tell me why given the need for these expensive purchases (New Police Station/Re-Furbished Fire Station/New Fire Truck >> Totaling over $4.5M In town floated bonds) would we need to have an additional $3.5M community center?

Don’t get me wrong, it is certainly nice to have but with all the other necessary expenses and a rising tax rate, why would a fiscally responsible team approve/proceed with this?

NoRegrets · 11-23-2009, 11:49 AM

The tax burden for each state can be found in the attached chart. Vermont ranked 7th highest, Mass was # 8 and New Hampshire is # 47. I like the fact that NH has a small government and support keeping limits on it. The converse is poor Massachusets. The are # 8 and trying to be #1. I believe that is why now support so many refugees from the south.
Even if some of the facts seem suspect I do enjoy FLL's postings as they challenge us to read and research.
750 K does seem like a lot of money for a truck. I am not qualified to judge the ROI but I do hope that it is never used for it's intended purpose.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...den-per-capita

Argie's Wife · 11-23-2009, 11:28 AM

Attached to this post is the 2008 tax burden by state.

VT is 8th and NH is 46th on the list for tax burden.

VT is 22nd and NH is 10th on the list for income per capita.

FLL - you're welcome to explore the cost per pupil, social programs, and other expenditures that VT has vs. what NH spends on. They raise more money and spend more money, is the short of it. Perhaps the $20K engine was purchased because it wasn't well planned for, but that's just an assumption...

fatlazyless · 11-22-2009, 08:40 PM

Hi ScubaJay....you obviously know about the specifics of your job so I owe you an apology for suggesting Laconia gives you dental insurance coverage.

As far as the Meredith Selectmen, I base that on what I read in the Laconia Daily Sun from aproximately Sept 2008. As I recall, the five selectmen, according to the LaDaSun were discussing ways to keep costs down, and someone, probably Chairman Peter Brothers was reported to have looked around at all four other selectmen and say something like "I believe this will be the best that we can do unless you will agree to all give up your health insurance benefits. Looking around the room, no one raised their hand, and the discussion moved on." (a paraphrase from memory)

I'm looking around in the LaDaSun search engine, and will get back with the exact quote. But, that piece of info struck a chord (boing!) in my brain and stayed with me.

Again, ScubaJay....sorry for the false info on my part....nothing personal....your work is appreciated....especially when it's a real fire like at my own house, and not just a false alarm somewhere else! fll

tis · 11-23-2009, 07:35 AM

The selectmen in Wolfeboro get health insurance too.

fatlazyless · 11-30-2009, 10:11 PM

Meredith ladder truck dented but no serious damage done

MEREDITH - The Fire Department's new ladder truck was damaged when it was backed into one of the bollards (posts) astride the doors of the apparatus bay of the new stationhouse on November 11.

Selectman Chuck Palm, the former fire chief, said Friday that the extent of the damage was limited to dents in the rear bumper and rear quarter panel. "The damage had no affect on the operation of the truck," he said. The truck he stressed was fully insured and arrangements for its repair have been made.

The town purchased the new truck, which was commissioned on November 5, for $760,000.

Laconia Daily Sun, Nov 30
.......
Surprize Pop Quiz

1. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Laconia firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

2. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Meredith firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb?

3. If the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid tones out a call to replace a burnt-out Christmas tree lightbulb in New Hampton, then which neighboring fire department, Meredith or Laconia, is most likely to get to the lightbulb first, and why?

4. When the fire department arrives at the scene of the burnt out Christmas tree lightbulb, how will they detemine which specific lightbulb is burnt out?

5. The State of New Hampshire has how many different towns and cities?

6. The combined total of all the cities and towns in New Hampshire have a total of how many different 100' aerial tower trucks?

7. While the State of NH purchases fire trucks on a town by town, have money, basis: Which nearby new england state purchases fire trucks on a regional basis and why?

8. When it is your house that is burning, do you hope a fire truck will show up quickly and put the fire out?

9. Or, do you hope that the fire will continue to burn so your house will be considered a total loss by your insurance company?

10. Would you encourage your local Laconia or Meredith Fire Dept to adopt a dalmation firehouse dog?

11. (special bonus question) How about a beer guzzl'n basset hound, that likes Pabst Blue Ribbon, for a firehouse buddy........aaaarrrrrrrroooooo........!

Happy Gourmand · 12-01-2009, 08:04 AM

You are like a dog who bites you in the ass and won't let go....
I have to say that I usually get a chuckle out of many of your comments, but I also have to say that I find that many of your references regarding the new ladder truck to be misinformed, condescending and downright disrespectful. I think it's time for you to throw the towel in on this issue. The ladder truck is in place and there is nothing constructive that you can do about it. Your rants are becoming obnoxious.

twoplustwo · 12-01-2009, 01:48 PM

Thank you, Phantom. I couldn't agree more.

Janet · 12-01-2009, 05:39 PM

I totally agree!

fatlazyless · 12-01-2009, 07:40 PM

....okey-dokey....methinks I get the message......think I will go slink off to that NH Animal Rescue League for Meredith on the Centre Meredith Rd, close to Laconia, and go shop for an adopted beer guzzl'n basset hound for a new buddy. You know, we'll be able to cry in our beer together.....misery luvs company......

Isn't caring for a dog what seems to work at rehabilitat'n long term inmates in some of the prisons?

& aarrrrooooo's to you, too!......................

Pineedles · 12-01-2009, 07:46 PM

You are an amazing soul!

11-18-2009, 01:08 PM	#2
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,576 Thanks: 3,215 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	FLL got it. Just got my Laconia tax bill with a big fat $300 increase for 6 months! Being unemployed for over a year, I am not pleased with the new truck. =( I had a feeling there going to be a 'one up' when a neighboring fire department gets a new 'toy'. __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

11-19-2009, 10:10 AM	#5
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Well.......Alton could have purchased Laconia's twenty year old, ladder truck for $20,000 as did a fire dept from Vermont. Why....right now....that old Laconia ladder truck is probably sitting in a Vermont garage getting a thorough inspection of everything from bumper to bumper. And, in three months time, whatever needed repairing will be fixed and the old ladder truck will be good-to-go, and in use for many more years. According to the Citizen article the old Laconia ladder truck was said to have the equivalent of 300,000 miles of use. As many readers here probably are not aware, it is pretty common for a commercial truck to be kept going until it gets to 900,000 or 1,000,000 miles so 300,000 miles is considered low miles. Anyone know what Vermont town now has the ladder truck? Possibly, they have a website talking about their terrific $20,000 new-used ladder truck purchase, and how it came from a very wealthy NH waterfront town. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

11-19-2009, 11:30 AM	#6
scubajay1153 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	My last post on this issue.... ....because it's not worth my time to continue to have to go against misinformation and speculation. Firstly, the newspaper article also stated the many reason why the truck was needing replacement (repairs, overweight,etc) so if one goes to the article FLL chose to only quote some of, that info would be easily gleaned. The 1989 ladder truck was not only not sufficient for our needs but was not up to National Fire Standards which call for a fully enclosed cab with seating for all riders with appropriate seatbelts, only one rear axle which is no longer allowed in that with that weight / load design along with lack ability to hold the equipment needed for operation. It simply had out grown its useful life for our community. This vehicle was SOLD for $20,000. No where does it state how much that the next community will have to put into safety upgrades, corrosion repair/abatement, paint and other items to get into service into that community. It is not a plug and play truck for them, they will have to fork out more for certain. The truck originally cost over $500,000 so extrapolate that loss of value out on your brand new car and see what the percentage of resale value is and see what the final figure is. Take that tiny chunk of change and see what kind of used car you can buy and it's quality. Yep, thats right. Same thing here.... While I feel the sting of increases in tax bills as well as I am a property owner and taxpayer, I find issue with Broadhoppers comment. While that $300 increase plain takes a bite out of the wallet I can feel quite safe in guessing (high no doubt) that out of that $300 a miniscule amount went towards that new ladder truck. I would be shocked if the individual household paid more then the cost of a cup of coffee towards it. Have issues all you want as it is your right, but that truck didn't do the damage to your finances. The estimate on miles is because we can not pinpoint a value of the wear and tear on the frame and motor of the truck while it is use as a ladder truck at a call or simple idling at the emergency scene. They have to estimate the engine hours into miles somehow and I honestly don't know the formula but I can assure you it is much more work on the truck and motor then the odometer implies. And Broadhopper this truck was on the CIP for the city since before I was hired here in Christmas season 2001 so no "one upsmanship" was occurring. THis was a well thought out and planned replacement. And FLL, last night I drove the "old" ladder truck to reported house fire. It is sitting at the Central Station, still in service, awaiting the other truck to get placed in service. So that "Vermont" department will just have to wait until we make the swap to the new truck so we don't lessen the protection we are offering to our citizens. Also in the CIP is to replace the two old engines (30 yrs and 23 yrs respectively) with a new engine, and new pumper/tanker in the next few years. But don't worry, I rounded up the truck committee and we are off to check out a prospective and more FLL friendly (wallet wise) new unit that will be a cost effective unit, heck, we wont even have to air condition this beauty..... Attached Images

11-19-2009, 08:48 PM	#9
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Thanks for the post ScubaJay and all the items on the trucks. It's a lot easier to understand a truck than a new building since everyone has experience with their car, and mileage , and repairs. You know, trucks are just like cars, except they are bigger. There used to be an old fire pump carraige on display at the Meredith Mobil which looked like it got pulled by a single horse. Now, that would probably be very cost efficient.......a horse drawn fire pumper! No expensive diesel fuel needed......just a bag of Blue Seal to feed Ole Lucille.....at her daily feeding time. By the way, I'm look'n for a job driv'n a tractor trailer, fire dept aerial tower with a big water tank and a big pump. Yes, I have the cdl-a, haz-mat, tanker, air brakes & med card endorsements. Where's my job? Maybe, in Vermont? How's about I drive the old Laconia ladder truck to Vermont, and when I get there I say "Hello Vermont', and by the way, I come with your new-used $20,000 truck deal, as a driver.......what a deal! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

11-19-2009, 09:55 PM	#10
BroadHopper Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Laconia NH Posts: 5,576 Thanks: 3,215 Thanked 1,103 Times in 794 Posts	ScubaJay Guess I owe you an apology. It just that the timing kind of throw things out of perspective. Can't argue with your logic. The city manager mention in the papers that asses values are down and thus raised the tax rate. While my tax rate is up the assess value did not go down. So I got a good bite! Ouch! __________________ Someday may never be an actual day.

11-18-2009, 08:29 AM	#1
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Today's Nov 18 www.citizen.com has an article on Laconia's new $879,000 - 100' aerial tower truck, and how the 20 year old truck it is replacing was sold to a Vermont fire dept for $20,000. Old fire trucks never die, they just get sold off to another fire dept which has less taxpayer money to spend. No doubt, a smaart buy for a small Vermont volunteer fire dept who will renew-repair-replace and keep it going for another twenty years. Property taxes are not all that based on one's ability to pay, and this truck will be paid with the Laconia property tax. The Citizen article says that the fire dept has recently been training to operate the new truck at the now closed Freudenberg-NOK car parts factory on Hounsell Ave. Approximately 130 Freudenberg employees lost their good paying, manufactoring jobs there in 2008. As Laconia property tax payers who have lost their jobs they are probably not too pleased paying for a new $879,000 truck when the old one could have been kept going. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-18-2009 at 09:43 AM.

11-18-2009, 09:32 PM	#3
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	Broadhopper, Hang in there, something will give and hopefully you will be back to work. We are all hoping your unemployment will be over soon.

11-18-2009, 10:20 PM	#4
Argie's Wife Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Alton Posts: 1,908 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 533 Thanked 579 Times in 260 Posts	Have you considered what your home owners' insurance rates would climb to if your town did not have adequate fire safety equipment? Yes, the equipment at your local fire station is audited by home owners' insurance company's underwriters and it is a HUGE factor in what you pay for rates. All Capital Improvement Plan items (such as this fire truck) are also considered when your town's credit rating is factored. I would assume that the purchase was made via the Municipal buying plan, which allows for payments to be made over several years and gives towns better buying power when they join the plan. The money is raised via Warrant articles or at the town meeting. Alton is seeking to purchase a new ladder truck this year and a no-frills model would be about $600K, I believe. The old truck has some rust issues and although it passed inspecting this year, that may not be true next year. A ladder truck is NOT something that you want to have a breakdown with or have to use as just a tank truck, which would be the fate with the old truck here in Alton. Planning ahead is best - for all.

11-19-2009, 04:28 PM	#7
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	A big thank you to Scubajay1153.

11-19-2009, 08:43 PM	#8
Coolbreeze Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts	Well said scubajay!

11-22-2009, 08:12 AM	#14
Janet Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 470 Thanks: 233 Thanked 134 Times in 91 Posts	Time to end this thread!?

11-22-2009, 08:19 AM	#16
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	I'm not sure why I'm doing this... One could easily assume it would be the other way around, with Vermont buying new, what with their high Vermont taxes. So, how can NH be a low tax state if it can afford to buy new for $850,000? I think Scubajay has done a phenomenal job of explaining why equipment like this is needed, how safety requirements change, and how little of an impact an expense like this has on your overall taxes. Rather than accept his information, you sit and pick at the subject like a scab on your knee with lame, baseless arguments. You're relentless. It's exhausting to read and demeaning to all local FDs trying to save lives. Until you have the statistics of both towns so you can compare income and expense information, you're comparing apples and oranges. If you have such an intense need to find out why equipment like this is necessary, why don't you use some of your free time and go volunteer for the Meredith FD? You can also consider a run for selectman, so you have more input into Meredith spending.

11-22-2009, 11:32 AM	#21
scubajay1153 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilford Posts: 93 Thanks: 2 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	I do? Another BOLD LIE by FLL! I won't bite to hard......because I DO NOT HAVE DENTAL and can't pay for the damage it will do to my mouth. The FF's and Police in the City DO NOT HAVE DENTAL because the City REFUSES to entertain the thought of offering it to us. We continue to ask, they continue deny. Period.

11-23-2009, 10:08 AM	#26
jmen24 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,139 Thanks: 223 Thanked 319 Times in 181 Posts	FLL, I will tell you what I know from my wife, who although was born in Maine, spend her school life in Vermont and transfered to a NH school in high school. That even though Vermont does have higher taxes, they put a considerable margin of those tax dollars into their school systems. Their schools are far superior to what is offered at most schools in NH that are twice the size of the ones in VT. When she transfered into her final school in NH she had enough credits to graduate a year early without having to double up on courses. FLL, does this town in VT have a name so that we can compare the population base against Laconia, not that it matters, but it might enlighten you on how they choose to spend their dollars.

11-23-2009, 11:16 AM	#27
4 for Boating Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 224 Thanks: 1 Thanked 38 Times in 26 Posts	The Big Picture Just to toss my two cents in and to make my position clear on the truck, if the fire or police departments need something then I’m all for it if done in a proper purchasing/bid manner. Having said that and given the fact that Meredith may have needed these things in order to assure the people that help protect and respond to the community are in the best position to help, can someone tell me why given the need for these expensive purchases (New Police Station/Re-Furbished Fire Station/New Fire Truck >> Totaling over $4.5M In town floated bonds) would we need to have an additional $3.5M community center? Don’t get me wrong, it is certainly nice to have but with all the other necessary expenses and a rising tax rate, why would a fiscally responsible team approve/proceed with this?

11-23-2009, 11:49 AM	#28
NoRegrets Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hudson - NH Posts: 408 Thanks: 233 Thanked 212 Times in 88 Posts	The tax burden for each state can be found in the attached chart. Vermont ranked 7th highest, Mass was # 8 and New Hampshire is # 47. I like the fact that NH has a small government and support keeping limits on it. The converse is poor Massachusets. The are # 8 and trying to be #1. I believe that is why now support so many refugees from the south. Even if some of the facts seem suspect I do enjoy FLL's postings as they challenge us to read and research. 750 K does seem like a lot of money for a truck. I am not qualified to judge the ROI but I do hope that it is never used for it's intended purpose. http://www.statemaster.com/graph/eco...den-per-capita

11-22-2009, 08:40 PM	#30
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	Hi ScubaJay....you obviously know about the specifics of your job so I owe you an apology for suggesting Laconia gives you dental insurance coverage. As far as the Meredith Selectmen, I base that on what I read in the Laconia Daily Sun from aproximately Sept 2008. As I recall, the five selectmen, according to the LaDaSun were discussing ways to keep costs down, and someone, probably Chairman Peter Brothers was reported to have looked around at all four other selectmen and say something like "I believe this will be the best that we can do unless you will agree to all give up your health insurance benefits. Looking around the room, no one raised their hand, and the discussion moved on." (a paraphrase from memory) I'm looking around in the LaDaSun search engine, and will get back with the exact quote. But, that piece of info struck a chord (boing!) in my brain and stayed with me. Again, ScubaJay....sorry for the false info on my part....nothing personal....your work is appreciated....especially when it's a real fire like at my own house, and not just a false alarm somewhere else! fll __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 11-22-2009 at 09:39 PM.

11-23-2009, 07:35 AM	#31
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,730 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,457 Times in 1,014 Posts	The selectmen in Wolfeboro get health insurance too.

11-30-2009, 10:11 PM	#32
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	...dented but not serious... Meredith ladder truck dented but no serious damage done MEREDITH - The Fire Department's new ladder truck was damaged when it was backed into one of the bollards (posts) astride the doors of the apparatus bay of the new stationhouse on November 11. Selectman Chuck Palm, the former fire chief, said Friday that the extent of the damage was limited to dents in the rear bumper and rear quarter panel. "The damage had no affect on the operation of the truck," he said. The truck he stressed was fully insured and arrangements for its repair have been made. The town purchased the new truck, which was commissioned on November 5, for $760,000. Laconia Daily Sun, Nov 30 ....... Surprize Pop Quiz 1. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Laconia firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb? 2. With their new 100' aerial tower truck, how many Meredith firefighters does it take to remove and replace a Christmas tree lightbulb? 3. If the Lakes Region Mutual Fire Aid tones out a call to replace a burnt-out Christmas tree lightbulb in New Hampton, then which neighboring fire department, Meredith or Laconia, is most likely to get to the lightbulb first, and why? 4. When the fire department arrives at the scene of the burnt out Christmas tree lightbulb, how will they detemine which specific lightbulb is burnt out? 5. The State of New Hampshire has how many different towns and cities? 6. The combined total of all the cities and towns in New Hampshire have a total of how many different 100' aerial tower trucks? 7. While the State of NH purchases fire trucks on a town by town, have money, basis: Which nearby new england state purchases fire trucks on a regional basis and why? 8. When it is your house that is burning, do you hope a fire truck will show up quickly and put the fire out? 9. Or, do you hope that the fire will continue to burn so your house will be considered a total loss by your insurance company? 10. Would you encourage your local Laconia or Meredith Fire Dept to adopt a dalmation firehouse dog? 11. (special bonus question) How about a beer guzzl'n basset hound, that likes Pabst Blue Ribbon, for a firehouse buddy........aaaarrrrrrrroooooo........! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-01-2009 at 08:14 AM.

12-01-2009, 08:04 AM	#33
Happy Gourmand Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Ruskin FL Posts: 1,027 Thanks: 188 Thanked 322 Times in 179 Posts	Fll You are like a dog who bites you in the ass and won't let go.... I have to say that I usually get a chuckle out of many of your comments, but I also have to say that I find that many of your references regarding the new ladder truck to be misinformed, condescending and downright disrespectful. I think it's time for you to throw the towel in on this issue. The ladder truck is in place and there is nothing constructive that you can do about it. Your rants are becoming obnoxious.

12-01-2009, 01:48 PM	#34
twoplustwo Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moultonborough Posts: 456 Thanks: 51 Thanked 39 Times in 21 Posts	the thanks button is MIA Thank you, Phantom. I couldn't agree more.

12-01-2009, 05:39 PM	#35
Janet Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 470 Thanks: 233 Thanked 134 Times in 91 Posts	I totally agree!

12-01-2009, 07:40 PM	#36
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,755 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,010 Times in 736 Posts	....okey-dokey....methinks I get the message......think I will go slink off to that NH Animal Rescue League for Meredith on the Centre Meredith Rd, close to Laconia, and go shop for an adopted beer guzzl'n basset hound for a new buddy. You know, we'll be able to cry in our beer together.....misery luvs company...... Isn't caring for a dog what seems to work at rehabilitat'n long term inmates in some of the prisons? & aarrrrooooo's to you, too!...................... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 12-01-2009 at 10:47 PM.

12-01-2009, 07:46 PM	#37
Pineedles Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Moultonborough & CT Posts: 2,545 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 668 Times in 367 Posts	You are an amazing soul!