Braun Bay Rafting Bill

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by robmac

jmen,I agree looking at the cost to tow my boat back to Winni or staying in FL even without thinking about the economy makes me wonder. It just doesn't seem to make sense to inact laws that further prevent boaters and families from being able to enjoy a lake where generations have been going for years. As a NH resident I call and write to my state reps and let my and other peoples feelings be known as well as write and advise they read the posts on this site. Progress is good but sometimes not for the better.

What are some of the laws that keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH? Also how will any of the proposed laws keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH.

I know that there are some laws and proposed laws that will change the way some people use the Lake, but just which ones effect you.

I can’t think of any law or proposed law that will keep me from having fun on any Lake in NH.

Thank you

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

What are some of the laws that keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH? Also how will any of the proposed laws keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH.

I know that there are some laws and proposed laws that will change the way some people use the Lake, but just which ones effect you.

I can’t think of any law or proposed law that will keep me from having fun on any Lake in NH.

Thank you

I know question was asked of another, but I feel compelled to answer from my point of view.

Here's one affects me directly:

"270:77 Squam and Conway Lakes and Silver Lake in Madison. – No person shall at any time place in or upon, or use, or operate upon, Squam Lake or Conway Lake or Silver Lake in Madison any houseboat. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a violation. Boards of health and health officers of towns abutting said lakes shall have power and authority to enforce the provisions of this section."

I have a trailer boat that happens to have a porta-potti and sleeping berths which makes it a "Houseboat" under 270-A:1 (see below). I'd love to take my boat on Squam Lake for a day, but I cannot because the lake front owners on that lake petitioned the legislature for this law to keep the lake off limits to the likes of people like me.

270-A:1 II. ""Houseboat'' means any ship, boat, raft, float, catamaran or marine craft of any description upon or within which are located sleeping and toilet facilities, regardless of whether such facilities are of a permanent or temporary nature.


Here's another:

270-A:3 Where Overnight Mooring Prohibited. – No houseboat shall be beached or grounded, or tied to the shore of any of the inland surface waters of the state for an overnight period or any part of an overnight period, except as permitted in RSA 270-A:2 or in cases of emergency. No houseboat shall be anchored on any of the inland surface waters of the state for an overnight period or any part of an overnight period except as permitted in RSA 270-A:2 or in cases of emergency.

No such law exists in any other state that I know of. My family and I routinely enjoy quietly anchoring overnight on inland waters in ME and MA without any problems. I also enjoyed doing so as a kid aboard my parent's boat on Winnipesaukee when the law was revoked briefly during the mid 70s. I would love to now, but I cannot.

Originally Posted by Dave R

Here's one affects me directly: "270:77 No houseboats on Squam Lake or Conway Lake or Silver Lake...
Here's another: 270-A:3 No Overnight Mooring...

I don't know exactly what caused these laws to be enacted, but I'd bet my last dollar that in every case it was not so simple as "the rich lake front owners petitioned for this law to keep the lake off limits to the likes of people like me." More likely, some obnoxious jerks continuously misbehaved and abused a freedom and ruined a good thing for everyone. If you investigate, you'll surely find a history of a problem getting worse and worse and good people exhausting all other means to contain it, and the legislature finally having to resort to a broadbrush law that inadvertently limits the freedoms of the non-jerks in order to limit the misbehavior of the jerks. As I've said over and over again about every one of these laws...Your anger should be directed at the jerks. They ruined it for you. It was not the good, passive people that simply couldn't take it anymore and just wanted some peace that ruined it for you.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

What are some of the laws that keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH? Also how will any of the proposed laws keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH.

I know that there are some laws and proposed laws that will change the way some people use the Lake, but just which ones effect you.

I can’t think of any law or proposed law that will keep me from having fun on any Lake in NH.

Thank you

I have two other friends who have boats and our families often tie up at the sandbar in a raft. Usually 2-3 times per year we get together on the same day on the lake when our schedules align. A rafting law on Braun Bay now means our boats would have to be 25.0000000 ft apart. Not exactly the same fun and social gathering when we are tied together separated by bumpers.

So if those same boats are tied together or anchored seperately, why should you have a care in the world???

So yes, it does impact me and it does interfere with how I enjoy the lake.

[Yosemite Sam]

House boats and rafting, thank you.

Are there anymore laws or proposed laws that keep you from having fun on any lake in NH?

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

House boats and rafting, thank you.

Are there anymore laws or proposed laws that keep you from having fun on any lake in NH?

1. Can't have pets at Ellacoya.
2. Speed limit
3. Rafting

And the inability to anchor overnight although it does not impact me is stupid. A LOT of people do overnights on their boats.

[Yosemite Sam]

House Boats
Rafting
Can't have pets at Ellacoya.
Speeeeeeeeeeee Liiiiiii I can’t say it.



Looking at those four items, I don't see a trend by our NH lawmakers that they are trying to stop anyone from having fun on NH Lakes.

[Pineedles]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

House Boats
Rafting
Can't have pets at Ellacoya.
Speeeeeeeeeeee Liiiiiii I can’t say it.



Looking at those four items, I don't see a trend by our NH lawmakers that they are trying to stop anyone from having fun on NH Lakes.

You're right Sam. As long as it is the kind of fun that THEY think we should be having. This is why I joined www.sbonh.org. Not because I have a big fast boat, but because I object to others passing judgement on what they think I should enjoy. BTY how's your cholesterol level? There are laws in effect that deny your right to buy a big juice hamburger because it's bad for you. In the past, some thought that folks with blonde hair and blue eyes were the only ones that deserved to live. I am not comparing you or anyone else to these people, but if you allow discrimination because it doesn't affect you, you will be the next one on the list.

[Yosemite Sam]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

You're right Sam. As long as it is the kind of fun that THEY think we should be having. This is why I joined www.sbonh.org. Not because I have a big fast boat, but because I object to others passing judgement on what they think I should enjoy. BTY how's your cholesterol level? There are laws in effect that deny your right to buy a big juice hamburger because it's bad for you. In the past, some thought that folks with blonde hair and blue eyes were the only ones that deserved to live. I am not comparing you or anyone else to these people, but if you allow discrimination because it doesn't affect you, you will be the next one on the list.

I know we disagree about the (I can't say it law), but I don't think that this law is the start of many more laws that will effect how we use our Lakes to have fun.

I guess time will tell won't it Pineedles.

[lawn psycho]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I know we disagree about the (I can't say it law), but I don't think that this law is the start of many more laws that will effect how we use our Lakes to have fun.

I guess time will tell won't it Pineedles.

Then why does Moultonborough have the commanding lead in NRZ's? As soon as one area gets an exclusion or special treatment, then the snowball keeps rolling.

The proposed Gilford ordinance is yet another example. You can bet someone in another lake town will think about "what about me".

Let's put this in perspective. When people are on the beach on the seacoast do they limit how many people can lay side by side on their towels while sunbathing? It's exactly the same thing.

[Woodsy]

Yosemite....

It is already happening.... perhaps you want to look the other way and dont want to connect the dots.... but I will! Slowly but surely the public's RIGHT to the lake is being eroded....

1. The Braun Bay Bill.... the water belongs to the PUBLIC! The water does not belong to the waterfront property owners. Thier littoral rights end at the high water mark & thier dock! Yet here we are limiting the PUBLIC use of a PUBLIC RESOURCE because some whiny *ss property owner doesnt like anyone in THIER water! Once Braun Bay becomes restricted, more & more bays & coves will petition for NRZ status because boats will be forced to look elsewhere

2. The Gilford (Ames Farm) zoning change petition.... here we have a place that has been launching and recovering boats for the PUBLIC for decades yet some wealthy jack*ss property owner found some sort of loophole forcing them to close... this legislation is written so as to put the final nail in Ames Farm... Yet another way of limiting PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC RESOURCE! I have said it before I would sell both properties for alot of $$$ to a deep pocketed developer and then see how happy these snotty waterfront people are when there are 300 condos where a comparitively peaceful farm used to be......

3. The law that shall not be mentioned.... squarely aimed at restricting the freedom of a minority of boaters... not going to get into it as this argument has been beaten to death.

4. The rumors swirling about HP limits, size restriction etc... nobody thought the speed limit would come to pass, especially given the history of Lake Winnipesaukee! Yet it has, it is being aggressively pusued in the legislature. If that can become law with little real evidence to support it what is next?

5. Its not just the lake where restrictions have been passed and yet more contemplated.... just ask the bikers if they feel welcome!!

Just keep your head buried in the sand folks... eventually there will be a law restricting or eliminating some activity that you or your family treasure....

Woodsy

PS: NH's economy derives a very large portion of its income from tourism! Make the tourists and others feel unwelcome and they will spend thier hard earnd cash elsewhere! Then see how your taxes are.....

[sunset on the dock]

Let's face it...laws come, laws go, just as society evolves. Think Blue Laws. It was once illegal in California to shoot any game from a moving vehicle unless it was a whale. It was once illegal to feed your slaves lobster more than 3 times a week. Was there this much angst on Winnipesaukee when they enacted life jacket laws ("my father never had to have life jackets in his boat when we were growing up...people are taking away my freedoms...wah wah wah")? There were origionally no laws about septic discharge from boats on the lake.
I'm against what the mega mansions are doing to the character of the lake as much as anyone and I'm glad to see new laws restricting how they can develop/destroy the shorefront....so it's not simply about new laws designed specifically to $crew the little guy. I'm happy to see new laws regarding septic system design to further protect the lake's water quality(which is deteriorating by the way). The sky is falling scenarios in this thread are getting to be a bit too much...thankyou Yosemite for injecting a little sanity into this discussion.

[DEJ]

Sunset, I think you missed the point of YS's question which was "What are some of the laws that keep you and your family from having a good time on any Lake in NH"?

Most of what you posted has nothing to do with this discussion.

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

I know we disagree about the (I can't say it law), but I don't think that this law is the start of many more laws that will effect how we use our Lakes to have fun.

When WinnFabs decided to enact the SL law, I was on their side. I don't have a fast boat and we do need some kind of control as the lake was getting crowded. I was with the principles of WinnFabs and NH Lake Association before one of the public hearings. They were talking to the sponsor of the bill about enacting future laws to limit size of boats and limit horsepower. They were also talking about how property values on Lake George went up after the SL law went into effect. Then I suddenly realize it is not about safety, it's about greed! I told them 'I'm outta here'. The sponsor says 'We've got to start somewhere!'

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Yosemite Sam

House boats and rafting, thank you.

Are there anymore laws or proposed laws that keep you from having fun on any lake in NH?

Waterskiing and barefoot skiing. I cannot enjoy barefoot skiing as I cannot go over 45 mph. I need to go at least 50 to enjoy the sport. In waterskiing, I cannot take off from a dock or land near a dock. The boat must be 150' away from any other object. I have been reprimanded by the MP when I drop of my skis to ski. They claim that the waterski floating in the water is a hazard. I need to take off from a beach or dock to ski on one ski or barefoot. It is extremely difficult to teach kids to ski when they are 150' away from shore.

[Pineedles]

Please do not lump all shorefront property owners into the same pot. We are very diverse and all have different agendas. My present agenda is contained in the site www.sbonh.org.

I see a growing trend in this thread to start blaming shorefront owners with instigating laws to restrict boater's rights. While the posted complainants are only 2 shorefront owners, please remember this, it's only 2 people! I'm sure that there are alot more people in Braun Bay then 2 who have no problem with rafting.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Pineedles

Please do not lump all shorefront property owners into the same pot. We are very diverse and all have different agendas. My present agenda is contained in the site www.sbonh.org.

I see a growing trend in this thread to start blaming shorefront owners with instigating laws to restrict boater's rights. While the posted complainants are only 2 shorefront owners, please remember this, it's only 2 people! I'm sure that there are alot more people in Braun Bay then 2 who have no problem with rafting.

Good point. I should not have implied that in my last post and I apologize.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by lawn psycho

I have two other friends who have boats and our families often tie up at the sandbar in a raft. Usually 2-3 times per year we get together on the same day on the lake when our schedules align. A rafting law on Braun Bay now means our boats would have to be 25.0000000 ft apart. Not exactly the same fun and social gathering when we are tied together separated by bumpers.

So if those same boats are tied together or anchored seperately, why should you have a care in the world???

So yes, it does impact me and it does interfere with how I enjoy the lake.

That's a good point. We've had some really fun raft-ups in places where they are legal and it would be fun to have 3-4 boats rafted in Braun Bay.