Ice Airport 2014

[thistleb]

Topic has me thinking of something very stupid that I did as a kid. Been coming to to Alton since 1976 when my grandparents built the house I have recently been so fortunate to buy. In the late 80's I was up for New Years with friends and we thought it would be fun to drive out on the ice. At that time I guess I didn't know about the run way, which was strange, but I ended up with my dads truck on its side in the middle of the run way! You can imagine my mindset as me and my buddies are trying to roll the truck back on its wheels when a guy yells from an ice house , "do you know you are on a runway"!! We got the truck up and out of there quick!! Thank god there was no cell phone cameras and you tube back then.

[Slickcraft]

Nice to see it open. Looks like good conditions.

[upthesaukee]

Paul has plowed out a taxiway on the east side of the runway. Runway itself is a little rough in spots from use of the area when it was soft from rain and warm weather, but not real bad. Also, a few ice holes were drilled, but they seemed to freeze over ok.

It is great to see it open, and hopefully the weather will cooperate through President's Day weekend. Fingers are crossed here.

[joann721]

My Dad is in his 90's and he loves coming up to see the planes. Are there specific weeks that it is open, I know it depends on ice conditions, but now that it is open does it stay open or is it only open at specific times.

We want to drive him up for the day to see it again so we want to make sure we come at the right time..

[upthesaukee]

Right now the ice is just that: ice. It would be very slippery to try to walk on, unless you have grippers that go on over your shoes (boots).

With that being said, the runway is open daylight hours. You can park in the parking lot by Shibley's at the pier and the bandstand, and if you are lucky, get a spot on the water side of the parking lot.

Warm temps that soften the ice, rain, wet snow, etc can all create a problem where they may find the need to close the runway, either for a short term, or for the rest of the season.

Looking at the long range forecast, tomorrow is forecasted to be around 30 for a high, with scattered snow showers. May not be a great day to see planes. Sunday is supposed to be windy, with the forecasted winds from the west southwest at around 20 MPH. This would make for almost a direct crosswind, and again, may not be conducive to good landing conditions at the airport. Long range ends up being pretty nice through next Sunday. Of course, this being New England, it is all subject to change.

[riverat]

Originally Posted by joann721

My Dad is in his 90's and he loves coming up to see the planes. Are there specific weeks that it is open, I know it depends on ice conditions, but now that it is open does it stay open or is it only open at specific times.

We want to drive him up for the day to see it again so we want to make sure we come at the right time..

Feb 16th is the Alton Winter Carnival and there is also a fly-in on the same day and normally lots of planes and helicopters. see this link - http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...ad.php?t=16983

[webmaster]

Buckle up:

[Slickcraft]

Umm Rochester, New Hampshire? The pilot was lucky to find the lake.

[Tank151]

Has a plane ever gone through the ice and into the lake?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by Tank151

Has a plane ever gone through the ice and into the lake?

they will not open the runway until they have 12 inches of ice, enough to support larger pickup trucks to plow. That should be plenty for small single engine planes.

Can anybody advise of what weight and type restrictions apply to aircraft using the ice runway?

I believe I have seen a small twin engine, like a Cessna 310. Common sense would dictate not to go with much bigger. Of major concern is the length of the runway, approx. 3000 ft in length. As noted in Slickcraft's item showing the Notice to Airman (NOTAM), it shows the runway to have a light coating of snow on the runway, braking action (BA) poor. Larger airplanes may not have enough runway to stop.

thanks Slickcraft for the NOTAM>

[8gv]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

they will not open the runway until they have 12 inches of ice, enough to support larger pickup trucks to plow. That should be plenty for small single engine planes.

Can anybody advise of what weight and type restrictions apply to aircraft using the ice runway?

I believe I have seen a small twin engine, like a Cessna 310. Common sense would dictate not to go with much bigger. Of major concern is the length of the runway, approx. 3000 ft in length. As noted in Slickcraft's item showing the Notice to Airman (NOTAM), it shows the runway to have a light coating of snow on the runway, braking action (BA) poor. Larger airplanes may not have enough runway to stop.

thanks Slickcraft for the NOTAM>

An aircraft with beta mode can stop in a very short distance. Down at 7B9 (Ellington CT) there's a mighty big jump plane with beta that turns off in about 1000'. The runway there is 1800'.

[mikea]

Can anybody advise of what weight and type restrictions apply to aircraft using the ice runway?

TIA...

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by mikea

Can anybody advise of what weight and type restrictions apply to aircraft using the ice runway?

TIA...

NOTAMS: https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/
The location is KB18 Alton Bay and the NOTAM has the airport manager's phone number.

Locations:
Sort By: Keyword Sort:
KB18
Data Current as of: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 16:38:00 UTC
KB18 ALTON BAY
[Back to Top]
!BGR 01/242 B18 RWY 1/19 FICON PATCHY THIN DRY SN OVER ICE BA POOR FOR UPDATES CALL 603-875-3498 OBSERVED AT 1401192200. 1401192225-1401202222EST

[Legionnaire70]

Originally Posted by Slickcraft

Umm Rochester, New Hampshire? The pilot was lucky to find the lake.

No, but I have seen 2 separate accidents. Both planes had to be dismantled and taken away on a flatbed.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Buckle up:

That was an exceptionally good landing...thanks for posting.

[riverat]

Originally Posted by webmaster

Buckle up:

Don when was that taken? Hopefully not today I hope, because if so my bobhouses are gone.

[NoBozo]

Once you click on the Webmasters link..and watch it you will get Many You Tube videos of the Alton Ice Runway....from years past. NB

There have been crashes in the past which have required the planes to be dis-mantled and carted away on trucks. The last one i remember was a "Prop Strike" which will require an engine overhaul. Back in 1988 an engine overhaul for a 160HP Cessna 172 was about $15,000.

I wonder what insurence company's think of Ice Landings. NB (Licensed Private Pilot since 1988)

ADD: When you have a Prop Strike, there is a significant possibility that internal damage will occur to the engine requiring Mandatory overhaul...just to be safe. The FAA is adament in this situation..

[Legionnaire70]

February 2010, this plane was taking off and a gust of wind blew it off the runway. All the prop blades wrapped around the cowl. After speaking to the pilot he told me this was his 3rd airplane mishap...

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by Legionnaire70

February 2010, this plane was taking off and a gust of wind blew it off the runway. All the prop blades wrapped around the cowl. After speaking to the pilot he told me this was his 3rd airplane mishap...

3rd!...I wonder when the insurance companies going to drop him...

[NoBozo]

Here's the problem with ICE landings.

On a paved runway, If you have a Cross Wind..you can "Crab" the approach...ie: You are floating in with the plane cocked sideways to compensate for the crosswind...up to a point.. No problem... .

Just before touchdown....you then straighten the plane out ..with the rudder..touch down...and depend on Lateral (sideways) Traction...to keep the plane ON the runway.

ON ICE...NO Lateral Traction. You quite likely slide off the runway....Bang Ding Ow... NB

PS: Today's planes have Steerable nose wheels.. or tail wheels in some cases for ground ops. Differential brakes are also used. ON ICE..Brakes are pretty much useless...

[8gv]

I wonder, if the ice was really slick, could you hold the crab through touch down and kick it out as you start to feel the side load on the gear?

We need a volunteer...

[camp guy]

I know nothing about private flying, but, can a runway be treated with a light coating of plain sand?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by camp guy

I know nothing about private flying, but, can a runway be treated with a light coating of plain sand?

Number one in this case, you are adding sand to the lake.

Number 2, the prop wash would cause that sand to act like a sand blaster, taking off paint.

Number 3, the sand could get into moving parts like the aerilons, elevator, gear on retractable gear aircraft, brakes, etc. . Not such a great idea.

Probably other reasons, but essentially, it is the same reason that "regular" airports do not put anything on their runways either.

[NoBozo]

NO local airports put down anything for ice ....because of the SALT. Salt and Aluminum..with rivets in the airplane..and crevices between the layers of aluminum...and the rivet holes..NOT GOOD.

Alton is a Special Case: The Alton runway is a specific DIRECTION that you are Confined to land on...AND there are hills and trees on both sides which will cause wind turbulence.

I have landed on ice in a Citabria (Tail Dragger) on a large lake. I landed directly into the wind. I was not confined to a specific RUNWAY direction. Also: the ice was Snow Ice...Later in the season..not Glare ice...maybe a little more traction.... NB

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

NO local airports put down anything for ice ....because of the SALT. Salt and Aluminum..with rivets in the airplane..and crevices between the layers of aluminum...and the rivet holes..NOT GOOD.

Alton is a Special Case: The Alton runway is a specific DIRECTION that you are Confined to land on...AND there are hills and trees on both sides which will cause wind turbulence.

I have landed on ice in a Citabria (Tail Dragger) on a large lake. I landed directly into the wind. I was not confined to a specific RUNWAY direction. Also: the ice was Snow Ice...Later in the season..not Glare ice...maybe a little more traction.... NB

I have seen a few planes land on rwy 19, that is landing towards Gillen Marine. Only problem coming in that way is the terrain just west of Rte 28A.

Taking off on rwy 19, well that is another story. If the winds are that strong to warrant a south takeoff direction, probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

The advantage of landing on an open lake, vs a specific ice runway airport is exactly that. You can often times land directly into the wind. Bush pilots in Alaska will make every effort to land into the wind, regardless of whether they are landing on water, snow, tundra, or a river bank. The latter is a tough choice sometimes.

[RLW]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

I have seen a few planes land on rwy 19, that is landing towards Gillen Marine. Only problem coming in that way is the terrain just west of Rte 28A.

Taking off on rwy 19, well that is another story. If the winds are that strong to warrant a south takeoff direction, probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

The advantage of landing on an open lake, vs a specific ice runway airport is exactly that. You can often times land directly into the wind. Bush pilots in Alaska will make every effort to land into the wind, regardless of whether they are landing on water, snow, tundra, or a river bank. The latter is a tough choice sometimes.

QUESTION:::: I would like to know who is correct. I purchased a hat from Brian at Busy Corners last year towards donation to the guys who maintain the runway and it states runway B18 Ice Runway Alton Bay, NH. Is it correct or the one listed above correct. Just yanking ya as I believe the hat is correct and us senior citizens do make mistakes far and between.

[Broken Glass]

Originally Posted by Legionnaire70

February 2010, this plane was taking off and a gust of wind blew it off the runway. All the prop blades wrapped around the cowl. After speaking to the pilot he told me this was his 3rd airplane mishap...

About ten years ago, I took my daughter to LWM one snowy Christmas eve so we could shovel out my Cherokee 180 and take a late day flight. While shoveling, we were approached by a gentleman who asked me how I liked my Cherokee. He proceeded to tell us that he had a Piper Dakota, and it was the third similar aircraft (PA-28) he has owned (I think he said his first one was a 140 Cherokee, and then a 150 Warrior) Anyway he told us how he had crashed his first plane into a hill while trying to land at Laconia. He had others on board and they all walked away. The second time he crashed, was into the chimney of his own house during takeoff from a private airstrip. Again he had others on board, and they all walked away. He said forgot to deploy his flaps before takeoff. So in his opinion the PA-28 aircraft was a real rugged airplane. After he walked away, my daughter said to me "dad, is that guy a crash dummy or something?" To this day whenever I see a PA-28 I think of that very lucky gentleman on that snowy ramp. I wonder if that is his Dakota with the collapsed nose gear and an appointment for a total engine overhaul?
Happy flying !!

[upthesaukee]

WMUR is advertising a segment of Monday's Chronicle dealing with landing on Alton's ice runway.

http://www.wmur.com/new-hampshire-ch...unway/24580804

Looking forward to it. Hope I am home from the boat show in time to see it.

[HUH]

Whaaaaeeerrrrahhhhhhhaaaaeeeerrrraahhhhhhhhhwhaaaa uuuuuuuuuu..
All day over your head.. its great

[JMR]

Nice video on Chronicle tonight. May try to drive up tomorrow just to watch

[Slickcraft]

Originally Posted by JMR

Nice video on Chronicle tonight. May try to drive up tomorrow just to watch

Right now it is closed, there had been a lot of new snow and probably slush this weekend. You can look here for the Notice to Airmen (NOTAM), type in B18 as the location.

https://pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/PilotWeb/

!BGR 02/291 B18 RWY 1/19 CLSD 1402191114-1402201115EST

Yes it was a nice video.

[LakeSnake]

Plane mishap on runway, pilot unhurt

http://m.wmur.com/news/plane-crashla...n-bay/24877016

[NoBozo]

Originally Posted by LakeSnake

Plane mishap on runway, pilot unhurt

http://m.wmur.com/news/plane-crashla...n-bay/24877016

According to the article: The plane is "Experimental". That means it is a "Home Built"..probably a KIT Plane. The pilot/owner built the plane ..and is authorized to do any work required to keep it flying.

IF the plane had been ..let's say a "Piper Cub" ..the owner would have to have "Licensed People" do the work at great expense.

PS: A P-51 Mustang is also classified as .."Experimental". NB

[riverat]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

According to the article: The plane is "Experimental". That means it is a "Home Built"..probably a KIT Plane. The pilot/owner built the plane ..and is authorized to do any work required to keep it flying.

IF the plane had been ..let's say a "Piper Cub" ..the owner would have to have "Licensed People" do the work at great expense.

PS: A P-51 Mustang is also classified as .."Experimental". NB

Yes it was a kit plane, I have a friend that has a similiar plane called a Kit Fox. pretty much a heavy ultralight which you do not need a pilots liscense to operate. Lots of pilots who develope medical problems such as heart surgery can no longer acquire a pilots liscense, but can fly an ultralight aircraft. any crash landing that you can walk away from is a good one, I believe that his landing gear absorb most of the impact, if the snowbank had been a foot higher, may have been muich worse.
Overall, with the hundreds of take-offs and landings that I have witnessed over the years at runway B18, I would consider it a very well maintained and safe runway.

[NoBozo]

Did that Kit Plane have a "Tail Number"...Like N-1234....on the rear fuselage.. or on the tail fin..?? Just wondering. NB