Performance Boats

[JDeere]

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

[jrc]

As much as the crowds can be irritating at times, it was great to have one last taste of summer. Now comes the wind down and then the long dark wait till spring.

[LIforrelaxin]

JDeere,

Are you sure the Performance boats where the problem? All boats make noise at some level.... If you are in a busy area of the lake, there is going to be some noise.... People need to learn to live with it.

If you want a peaceful serene lake then you should look for some place where motor boats period are not allowed.

I live between the long Island bridge, and the six pack.... It is very busy, every weekend.... it also gets loud when several boats are in the area.... The so called GFBL boats, don't even have to be present, for it to be loud.

It lasts for about 2 or 3 hours, I figure my serenity can be interrupted for that long, and if it really irritates me, then I go inside and watch a movie. or read a book...

What I don't do is go and look for some group of boaters to blame the problem on.... This is a busy lake, it isn't always going to be peaceful and serene when people are out on a nice day having fun.

[JDeere]

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

[BroadHopper]

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

[diz]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Did you just compare the treatment of Native Americans to your boat's exhaust? Totally inappropriate.

[Dave R]

I enjoy loud and fast boats going by at high speed. It's interesting and fun to watch, and it's also over pretty quickly. I hate loud boats idling at the dock while I'm trying to have a conversation though. If you have a loud boat at a public dock please shut it down as soon as it's tied up and leave ASAP after you fire it up. Trust me, nobody wants to listen it to it for more than a few seconds. Unless your boat is antique, if it's not fast, please don't make it loud. Loud and slow (<60 MPH) boats are as irritating as loud and slow (<80 MPH in first gear) motorcycles (but fortunately, not as common).

[Webbsatwinni]

The two loudest boats we heard all weekend were two beautiful antiques that were running through the broads on their way to the show. It's too bad that we all can't co exist. Loud performance boats have been on the lake for years, I guess it's too much to ask to be able to live and let live. Live free or die, but do so slowly and quietly!!

I enjoyed the sights and sounds this weekend, no matter how much negativity there is at the lake these days. Enjoy!!!

[Woodsy]

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

You live next to what is essentially a state park and you complain when people actually use it legally! Oh the Horror! People having fun usually make noise of some sort. Your expectation of peace and quiet does not trump the right of the public to enjoy the lake in any lawful manner.

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud. Ambient noise has a huge effect on how people perceive noise...


Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

OMG!! People were actually out on the lake and ENJOYING themselves??

In fact Merrill Faye is a huge anti-noise guy, as is his right. Yet his business routinely sells new boats with thru hull exhaust... go figure!


Woodsy

I looked at a boat a few years back and when I found it was through Fay's, I pulled out and went to a non hypocrite dealer. Go Figure ;-)

Great post btw!

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have no problem with the noise laws or their enforcement. The MP do a pretty good job given their resources. I do however have problem with them randomly stopping anyone, just because they "think" the boat may be too loud.

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



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[Donzi Minx]

I posted about a week ago my thoughts on this. When my family still owned an old Chris Craft (almost identical to the boat filmed in On Golden Pond) the old flat head six with what I remember to be 4" copper exhaust through the transom was indeed loud. My only run in with the MP at that time was skiing inside the raft at Ames early in the morning. They just came and took the plate off the boat for a week! No issues with noise then.....1969, 1970? Look how far we have come.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

.

This is great, hundreds of peaceful lakeside residents? I love the facts and detail, can you send us the link to the facts? And the few minutes of exhaust notes could keep someone in the broads blowing a whistle from being saved?

So lets talk fact, there was a stranded boat in Wolfboro bay Saturday afternoon, over 30 nice and quiet boats drove by and didn't stop or offer help in anyway. I was riding on a louder (legal ;-) ) boat and we saw them waving (yes, we saw them waving over the exhaust note), stopped and then towed them to the docks and helped them load it. While towing them, we were almost hit, had many boats come closer than 150 ft and cause enormous wake, all of these boats were quiet.

They were happy to have a louder boat lend a hand, and didn't care one bit that we were, in your words, a scofflaw.

[rsmlp]

Personally, I don't really like loud boats BUT they have every right to be on the lake as others and forum members have every right to articulate their opinion. I've been on the lake for over 40 years and I can't really say there has been any appreciable change in traffic or noise. Back in the 70's, large "cabin cruisers" were all the rage and frankly the numbers of large loud boats has decreased over the past few years. Jet skis are clearly dominant now and I suppose there are people who want to bitch and moan about them too. As long as boat operators are legally operating and reasonably courteous, I DON'T CARE!

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Just some facts here:

out door wilderness level 30-40 db
Human talking 70 db
Human yelling 88 db
Boat decibel limit at idle 88 db
Referee whistle decibel > 100 db
foghorn >130 db

These levels are all level at source type measurements. So apparently if boat exhaust is to loud, people best not being yelling around the lake either.....

Read up and understand why the levels that where chosen where chosen. They aren't random numbers. I wrote a big long post on this a couple of years ago...

The real issue here, is how sound travels over water.... on quiet nights I hear conversations from across the lake...

There should be absolutely no problem hearing a cry for help, or a distress whistle, over the noise of boat traffic even on the busiest of days, as long as you are in the vicinity of the problem.

If someone yells for help in Center Harbor, of course you not going to hear it in Meredith...

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by ApS

NHMP officers can't simply "stop" a boat: they need a reason to temporarily stop and detain you. The legal term is "articulable suspicion".

Using the newly-legalized exhaust cut-outs inconsiderately—and in the wrong locations—irks hundreds of peaceable lakeside residents every weekend. Noise can render inaudible calls for help on the water, and can overpower the mandated whistles.

Noise is only one of many reasons to detain an offender.



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Wow! I never thought about noise "rendering inaudible calls for help"

My neighbors kids like to play in the water and they are quite loud. I wonder if I should tell them that they can't play any more, or suggest they get muzzles? I mean, I would hate to have them render inaudible a call for help.

My other neighbor has a dog that barks. I wonder if I should suggest that they get rid of the dog in case someone is calling for help when their dog barks, rendering it inaudible?

Last week the guy next door mowed his lawn. I wonder if I should tell him to get a hand push mower so that the noise of his lawnmower motor does not "render inaudible a call for help"?

[JDeere]

So, this whole thread boils down to:

Some people like loud noise while others do not.

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Some folks like to quote "live free or die" when they feel their "rights" are in any way infringed yet the person disagreeing has no right to enjoy the lake on their terms and if they do not like it then they should move! Yikes!!!

As I have said I do not like the noise but I have never said the culprits should be banned. If the law says they are too loud then I fully support MP enforcing the law. If some of you do not like the law then work to get it changed but I am not sure what your logic would be....louder is better?

Really?

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by JDeere

Some people feel it totally correct to malign any individual who disagrees.

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Webbsatwinni

Its funny how you aim this statement at the people liking performance boats when you were the 1st negative post in this thread with "The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!"

For me, my post was about how good I thought it was, and again for me it was about getting away from it all in a way I enjoy. You sir were the one who added the start of the negativity or did you forget that?

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

[MGWillia]

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

[HomeWood]

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

[SAMIAM]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

Second that and add my love for the sound of a tuned exhaust.
The roar of a 427 Shelby Cobra,that pleasing crackle of an Aston Martin,even the rumble of a Harley as long as it's not a straight pipe blast.
No matter what I'm doing,I'll always take a peek when a nice performance boat passes my house.
Love the sound of pipes.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MGWillia

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud.

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Some people can't "hear the song" because the engine roar is too loud.

And others can't hear the song because their heads are either stuck in the sand or other places where the sun don't shine.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Tyler

The performance boats did not cause these tragedies, the drunk operators did.

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.

Originally Posted by MGWillia

So, did you hear the song from that new Disney movie "Frozen".... it's called "Let it go"

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.



Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:



When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

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[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

Drunks favor 3½-Ton boats to keep them alive and un-bloodied?

Maybe so:

Weighed together, the dead victims' demolished boats didn't weigh anywhere-close to 3½-Tons.



I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

I certainly can understand why the NHMP are finding "articulable suspicion" regarding these exhausts.



Maine's Sebago Lake allows very loud exhaust noises—although ocean-racers can be heard from over 8 miles away. Even the 300-foot height and granite mass of Rattlesnake Island can't block the noise from SW side to NE side. (Also true at Johnson's Cove).

Lake Winnipesaukee has a very different geological history than my family's former Sebago Lake island property—which enhanced its allure to my Grandparents. Thanks to my Grandparents' decision to move to Melvin Village, my Dad and I have spent nearly all of our boating lives on Lake Winnipesaukee. (Mostly on Winter Harbor—which BTW—is not a busy thruway).

Note just received from Winter Harbor:



When I'm on the telephone, I always make it a point to let the caller know how exhaust noise interferes with Lake Winnipesaukee's birding and "quiet-time" pleasures; that is, if the caller can hear me. (!)

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

.

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

My friend, his wife and 2 passengers are very lucky they were in their 7000 pound Doral when they got hit on their port side on the lake this summer by a bad boater in a smaller vessel.

[JDeere]

Some of the replies really are too funny. The thread starts with how wonderful all the boats were and I opined that is was a bit too loud and frenetic for me. Next thing people start to take personal swipes at me...or at least my screen name. One person starts to talk about the Indians and how what happened to them somehow correlates to his right to live free or die. How sophomoric.

Seems many of you get your panties all in twist if someone sees the world differently than you. That is a sad way to live. You have a right to your opinion and I mine...btw...your opinion's did not carry much credence since we now have new laws to deal with speed and noise.

Lastly "live free or die" was never meant to mean do whatever you want.

The phrase comes from a toast written by General John Stark, New Hampshire's most famous soldier of the American Revolutionary War, on July 31, 1809. Poor health forced Stark to decline an invitation to an anniversary reunion of the Battle of Bennington. Instead, he sent his toast by letter:

Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils.
Stark may not have been the original author of the phrase. Vivre Libre ou Mourir ("Live free or die") was a popular motto of the French Revolution, which the politician Antoine Barnave had engraved on his buttons.[2]

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by ApS

With the offender's exhaust in the background, it's especially gratifying when NHMP dispatchers ask me to repeat my phoned-in complaint about speedboat exhaust noise.

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by ApS

I (We) "Let it go" when oversized ocean racers got their well-deserved legal knockdown; however, the ocean-racers just returned to Concord to modify an existing law that ultimately legalized their exhaust "cut-out" option to bring to Winnipesaukee their excessive exhaust noise.

Well, despite all the education that was done about the switchable exhaust it appears that some people still don't seem to understand, that the exhaust noise test would be done with the the exhaust going through the hull.... not through the hub. If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done with out the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

It funny that all I have is an 18' bow rider, not an oversized ocean racer, yet I still realized that the switchable exhaust law was just plain wrong.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

If the Boat passes the noise test, the when the "silent choice" is on it is only going to be quieter.

IN SHORT THIS LAW REVERSAL HAS DONE NOTHING THAT MAKES THE LAKE NOISIER

This law making switchable exhaust illegal had been done without the proper knowledge originally. Everyone I talked with, once the details where explained, understood, that this could only improve noise level etc. especially around public docks etc.

While the change was initially presented as a logical solution—that exhaust noise would become "less-loud"—it hasn't worked out. Noise testing is now done at dockside. It was the first step in fooling the Legislature. A widely circulated photo of the Governor about to sign the new noise bill shows the Governor's face as grim. What'd he suspect?

Legalizing the "Captain's Choice" exhaust-cutout allows noisy boats to operate in either quiet or loud mode. For reasons that should be obvious, loud boats still plague Winnipesaukee's bays, harbors, inlets and coves.

Cutouts are widely banned in automobiles, but because noise travels greater distances over water, too many noisy boats have been tolerated on Lake Winnipesaukee for too long.

Lakers have "earned the right" to make the most noise, but they've got even louder competition.

If you've viewed the video of the race (that "wasn't a race") taken over the 2013 Labor Day Weekend, you should be scratching your head. At ½-mile away, the loud rapping exhaust noise of 15 "Performance" boats was recorded with the camera's microphone, which measures only 1.5 millimeters across.

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

"...Oh come on ApS. You love the sound of noisy aircraft..."

Sorry, I don't.

Every bright summer afternoon, I am drawn upwards to a white Waco biplane (radial engine) that flies over Wolfeboro's little airport, then directly over my Dad's house. The Sukhoi (radial engine) that does weekend acrobatics over Rattlesnake Island can be heard doing Immelmann turns. No Rattlesnake Islander has made mention of that "noise"—and they're missing a show!

It's the sound of the aircraft radial engines that won WWII that I like—they're not "in your face", like a bunch of Harleys blasting up a road with straight pipes.

For now, let's just call loud exhausts "inconsiderate".

[Woodsy]

Lakers have no more right to be loud any other boat unless the boat built was built PRIOR to 1968 and they have been issued a PERMIT. You really need to brush up on the laws BEFORE you state your OPINION as FACT...

NH Boat Noise RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-37.htm

Switchable Exhaust RSA:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/...270/270-25.htm

Read RSA270:25 very carefully especially as it pertains to 270:25-II Note the wording....

II. A boat may be equipped with a switchable device that will reduce the exhaust noise level in compliance with the limits established by RSA 270:37.

By legal definition the switchable exhaust can make a boat already in compliance with RSA 270:37 quieter. It cannot allow a boat to exceed RSA 270:37.

Get your facts straight.... oh wait... facts don't matter to you.

Woodsy

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Well, to me, it seems like you want to censor JDeere. This is a forum where people are allowed to express their opinions, whether it matches yours or not.

Not at all, I am pointing out that that post was what sent my positive post down a path that moved this to the Issues category giving it a negative tone.

[JDeere]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Loud boats been here since before you are born! I suppose you want to coral them to a reservation like we did to the American Indians! History repeats itself. My old man will never put anything on his HackerCraft just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

Who wants to coral....eh.... Maybe you mean corral the boats?

Your old man never put anything on his hackercraft. Just because someone moved hear and tell him NO!

What the heck does that mean.

[MGWillia]

lol.. So I'm guessing we haven't seen the movie...

[Phantom]

The thread that just won't die !




.

[Chaselady]

Originally Posted by Phantom

The thread that just won't die !




.

Like dogs with a bone....

[ApS]

So, change the channel...

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I love the sound of boats. The engines, the way hulls sound slapping the waves, and the occasional scream of joy. Maybe it's just me but those sounds seem almost as natural as the Loon calls.

I can relate to that—even after years at an occupation that has taken away most of my colleagues' sense of hearing.

Originally Posted by VitaBene

Are you OK? This is one of the most confusing posts I have read on this forum.

While I prefer to post information regarding the forum's "winni-wildlife", "lost and found", history, weather, "getting here", and cottage-maintenance forums, what specifically confused you?




1) The phrase, "Getting away from it all"?

2) The combined weights of the victims' boats?

3) The State of Maine's exhaust noise regulation?

4) That exhaust noise can be heard on the opposite side of Rattlesnake Island?

5) That exhaust noise on The Broads can be heard in Johnson's Cove?

6) That my family has a long history at Winnipesaukee?

7) That exhaust noise interferes with the simplest of the Lake's enjoyments?

8) That ocean-racers lost "The Big One" in Concord?

9) That ocean-racers can today make more exhaust noise?

10) That using a telephone at the dock becomes impossible due exhaust noise?

11) That NHMP dispatchers get "drowned-out" by exhaust noise?

12) The legal term, "Articulable Suspicion"?

I'll try to use shorter words when possible.

Originally Posted by Rusty

For some reason I visualize you looking like this after the NHMP tell you that your complaint will be looked into and they don't do anything:

I've made sure that the NHMP has no choice in the matter: I only call when two conditions are met.

1) I see the infraction.

2) I see an NHMP officer is already present.

It's worked out well so far; previously, the NHMP appeared between 20 and 30 minutes later. (Most often, too late for the necessary "articulable suspicion"—or even to halt an underage operator—who sadly died within my view.)

To their credit, NHMP dispatchers have always followed-through.



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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by JDeere

It was your post that raised the issue. The GFBL's are loud and yes I can always see the offending boat and it is always the performance boat that can be heard over the regular boat noise AND as you know boats are getting less loud versus more.

I fully support MP and their efforts to make sure that the boats sound level falls within the law. Who wants to listen to that???

I am not denigrating the GFBL people although I might be denigrating their boats and their desire to make the ruckus on what is really a small lake.

Finally no I do not have to move to another section of the lake....the GFBL boats simply need to abide by the rules....some do and some do not. Pretty simple.

"desire to make the rukus"

"offending boat"

Remember, the boats that have been on this lake a lot longer than most of us have were sometimes not well muffled. I was here in the early 70's when the flat bottom Sangers with the big blocks with twin open exhaust pipes over the transom were quite common. 90 MPH with just an in or out transmission, no reverse, and a foot operated throttle. Yes things change and some approve and others complain.

Maybe those you you feel "desire to make a rukus" just enjoy the sound of their boat and taking a ride on the lake. When they go by my house or I see them out on the lake, I enjoy the sight and sound and have no complaints. I am glad that a fellow boater is having a good time.

Life is too short. I don't even care how fast they are going, as long as they are doing it safely.

This is New Hampshire! Live free or die. Fewer rules is a good thing.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by JDeere

The lake sounded like route 93 at rush hour...not exactly like getting away from it all!

The lake was busy and choppy yesterday. The performance boats with 24 degree hulls excel in those conditions and were out. Regarding the noise, LI has a thread going on about testing. It seems the MP have been enforcing the law so those boats you heard were likely legal.