Performance Boats

[Rusty]

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

[MGWillia]

Well, looking for the upside... Hey, didn't that guy do a great job mounting that camera!?

[tis]

It's funny how the more controversial thread draw the most people. Like it or not, it's true. Still, I don't know why people have to be nasty to each other. Can't we disagree without being mean? I guess we can't, look at the world.

[Chaselady]

I agree. I am so done. Adios...

[PaugusBayFireFighter]

[Phantom]

NOW

That's funny & sooo appropriate PaugusBayFireFighter !!
(thanks for the morning chuckle)



.

[LIforrelaxin]

It bothers me that the threads are viewed negatively by so many. I for that I am sorry that they end up on this and other forums. But understand, for some of us, that report and write based on Facts, that this is the only place some of our opposition comes out and attacks us.

In many debates over sound, speed, boat size, etc. I have and will always being willing to sit down and talk with anyone, to understand their side of the situation. Yes as is human nature I have my side, and I will not be not easy change my view. But I will always listen, and look for compromises to give both sides satisfaction.

I have spent a great deal of personal time, money and effort into trying to make sure the boating laws, on Winnipesaukee are reasonable, and fair to all involved. I have had conversations with State Congressional Representatives, Marine Patrol officers, Marina owners, and even Boat owners that wanted to talk. Those talks have always remained positive and constructive. However on here, they break down, and those that break them down, never seem interested in sitting down over breakfast and having a healthy two sided conversation, knowing that I will not change their mind, nor will they change mine, but maybe just maybe we will find comprimise.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Just thought I would post this again of an unfortunate accident of a "Performance Boat". It seems to fit into this thread.

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Yes this was an unfortunate accident but here are some facts:
-- this didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee.
-- This happened at the Lake of the Ozarks, during an annual event, (this wasn't some random weekend accident)
-- This didn't happen this summer it happened several years ago
-- There are lessons to be learned from this video, like always where your saftey lanyard.

Why is it people are always digging up the past......and using scare tactics..... once again, I don't do this, I just provide facts.

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

[Woodsy]

Rusty....

You could not be more wrong..... WOW! More OPINION posted as FACT!

An accident like that can happen at any time on any lake! A speed limit has nothing to do with it.

The boat in question here most likely spun out due to driver error... this can happen in ANY boat while on plane. Let go of the steering wheel on some boats and the prop torque causes the boats to heel over hard... A gimble can break on the transom... lots of things can cause an accident like this.

But, to be truthful, spin outs are seen quite a bit in boats with a step in the hull. Lots of the newer small/mid sized family runabouts have stepped hulls as well as most modern hi-performance boats.

This video is a pretty good learning tool.... what the driver did right was have his kill switch lanyard attached. What the driver did wrong was just about everything else.. most importantly his passengers were not secure in their seats. The girl standing up is lucky she did not get seriously injured.

Again... if you are going to offer opinion as fact, you will get called out on it!

Woodsy

[BroadHopper]

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Just ask Ralph Nader and his Nader Raiders. Any craft regardless of what propels it is unsafe at any speed! Even Kayakers and SUP users can be killed. Speed has nothing to do with it. Inattentive, inexperience and influenced drivers are mostly to blame. Problem is putting a limit to speed and distance between boats only delay the inevitable. Not prevent it.

Things like safety lanyards, Safety courses, tougher DUI laws and other similar laws can go a long way to making the lake safer. Not limits like speed, horsepower, size and distance.

The fire is on!

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Everything that you say is factual but if someone says "speed is unsafe" then it isn't factual and there shouldn't be any limits on it. This is too funny to be real.
The fact of the matter is that there is a speed limit on Lake Winnipesaukee and I'm glad that there is.
The video that I posted "could" have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee if there wasn't a law against going that fast. Call it what you want but that my friend is a "fact".

Rusty...

Walking is unsafe given the proper conditions.... Pretty much everything a person does during the day could be considered unsafe... take a shower this morning? VERY unsafe given the accident stats! Drive your car today? Driving your car is statistically very dangerous! Even if you did obey every single speed limit and traffic law! LOL

If you are for a speed limit, good for you. You are entitled to that OPINION! If you want to think that the accident in the video didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee because of a speed limit.. You are entitled to that OPINION!

If you want to state that the reason that accident didn't happen on Lake Winnipesaukee is because of the speed limit as FACT.... I am going to call you out on it!

Where is the proof that NO accidents like that have happened since the speed limit? Where is the STUDY that the Lake is safer because of it? Where are the FACTS??

Oh wait... you don't have any! You just have your OPINION.

Sorry that just doesn't cut it for me...

Woodsy

[Rusty]

Everything I say is an opinion and everything you say is backed up with facts. Fair enough, have a good day.

[Woodsy]

Rusty...

I can back up every statement I have made... I can provide links and you can research it the same way I have. Its not an issue.

Its like political ads we are being inundated with... both sides have a story/opinion, but where are the UNBIASED FACTS??

Woodsy

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

[Happy Gourmand]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Yeah, thank GOD for "Winifabs" (sic), Rusty. They will go down in history as the BEST organization that was able to pull the wool over the inept NH Legislature. That same organization whose last name is "safety", but their agenda had nothing to do with safety. That same organization that knows how to spin facts into nonsense. Yes, Rusty, thank GOD we have them. (Just like we thank GOD we have the best President in history in the White House right now.)

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Happy Gourmand

How does the OP's statement turn into a snide remark about the President?

Read Post # 32 in this thread and you will find your answer:

http://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums/...sident+history

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

This is not a Fact.... the definition of Fact from dictionary.com is:

noun
1.
something that actually exists; reality; truth:
Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.
something known to exist or to have happened:
Space travel is now a fact.
3.
a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true:
Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.
something said to be true or supposed to have happened:
The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.
5.
Law.. Often, facts. an actual or alleged event or circumstance, as distinguished from its legal effect or consequence.
Compare question of fact, question of law.

This is an opinion which is defined by dictionary.com as:

a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.
a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.
the formal expression of a professional judgment:
to ask for a second medical opinion.
4.
Law. the formal statement by a judge or court of the reasoning and the principles of law used in reaching a decision of a case.
5.
a judgment or estimate of a person or thing with respect to character, merit, etc.:
to forfeit someone's good opinion.
6.
a favorable estimate; esteem:
I haven't much of an opinion of him.


These definition are indeed FACT....

The accident that happened on Lake of the Ozarks is FACT

The idea that a similar accident will not happen on Winnipesaukee, now because of the work of WinnFABS, is opinion.... and what you allude too....

Please Note that in my post I have not given my opinion on weather or not a accident like that could happen on Winnipesaukee. Your opinion of me and my beliefs may lead you to believe that I don't think it could happen on Winnipesaukee, But the FACT is, I know that things can go wrong at any speed, and for a verity of reasons, something similar could still very easily happen on Lake Winnipesuakee.

My reasons however don't just look at one item that I have a prejudice against. As has been spelled out here, a violent pitch of a boat on plane going over waves could happen from the following:

- Driver inexperience
- Boat poorly trimmed
- boat poorly loaded
- misjudgement of condition even from experienced skipper
- mechanical malfunction

Once again none of this is opinion it is all FACT......... Based on what can cause a boat to erratically pitch......One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

.....One or all of these can lead to a problem just like in the video, at less then the current speed limit on the lake.

That sums it up.

[Webbsatwinni]

Originally Posted by Rusty

OK, I'll just post facts:
If it wasn't for the hard work of Winifabs, this unfortunate accident could have happened on Lake Winnipesaukee, NH within the last couple of years.

Very one-sided, there were many accidents this year ranging from an older gentleman hitting a kayak near rattlesnake and a few prop injuries (What would Winfabbs do to help keep us safe from those?). There will always be accidents, some are stupidity, some accidents, etc. Is speed a contributing factor, yes, but so are untrained boaters, alcohol, on board distractions, etc.

Laying all of the blame for accidents on speed is a thin cover for other agendas. The reality is that most performance boat owners adhere to safety regulations and boat maintenance than the average boater, more to protect their investment than anything but it is what I have observed.