Ctr harbor access closed?

[chipj29]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

It drives me freaking crazy to see it. It's the responsible riders who end up paying for it.

Just last week in Weare, a landowners pasture was damaged by sleds that just couldn’t help themselves by going off trail. There was damage to electric fencing that was installed around the pasture last fall. On this trail, there are blaze markers, “stay on trail or stay home” signs, and even snow fencing in some areas. The landowner, who is actively involved in the club, decided to shut down the trail. This trail is a fairly major part of their trail system, although there are ways to get around it.
It took some convincing, but the landowner re-opened access to his property. I think it is safe to say that the Weare Winter Wanderers dodged a serious bullet.

It takes one idiot to make an entire group of people to look like idiots, unfortunately.

This season especially I have noticed throughout the trail systems in both southern and northern (Pittsburg) areas, people are going off trail all over the place. It is maddening.

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by chipj29

Just last week in Weare, a landowners pasture was damaged by sleds that just couldn’t help themselves by going off trail. There was damage to electric fencing that was installed around the pasture last fall. On this trail, there are blaze markers, “stay on trail or stay home” signs, and even snow fencing in some areas. The landowner, who is actively involved in the club, decided to shut down the trail. This trail is a fairly major part of their trail system, although there are ways to get around it.
It took some convincing, but the landowner re-opened access to his property. I think it is safe to say that the Weare Winter Wanderers dodged a serious bullet.

It takes one idiot to make an entire group of people to look like idiots, unfortunately.

This season especially I have noticed throughout the trail systems in both southern and northern (Pittsburg) areas, people are going off trail all over the place. It is maddening.

Is it me (old fart) forgetting my youthful ways? You know of going over the line a little?

I grow concerned when I see a youthful "Rider" standing straight up holding on to an EXTENDED HANDLE BAR, oops forgot the Backpack. Is this a case of PROFILING on My part?

Seriously there seems to be a lot of Young/Youthful Riders, without
supervision, on the trails this Season.

I not letting the older or Adult Rider off the hook either.

[SAB1]

Originally Posted by WINNOCTURN

Is it me (old fart) forgetting my youthful ways? You know of going over the line a little?

I grow concerned when I see a youthful "Rider" standing straight up holding on to an EXTENDED HANDLE BAR, oops forgot the Backpack. Is this a case of PROFILING on My part?

Seriously there seems to be a lot of Young/Youthful Riders, without
supervision, on the trails this Season.

I not letting the older or Adult Rider off the hook either.

No not really. When us (old farts) grew up we were taught right from wrong. When you did wrong mom and dad made sure you didn't do it again by warming your rear end with a fast moving hand, allowing you dine on a bar of ivory soap, removing driving priviledges and allowing to spend quality time in your room with no TV, stereo, cellphone, computer, video games etc. Just you and four walls to look at. Now a days that is considered child abuse. Funny how we all survived it and turned out fine

[SAMIAM]

I know this stuff happens now and then and it's too bad.Here at the Village Kitchen the riders have been nothing but respectful over the years.We have two large leach fields and in spite of the large volume of traffic to the Red Hill trail and also at the restaurant,no one has left the trails and driven over them.
Hopefully,landowners will understand that it's only a few bad apples and not punish the rest.

[WINNOCTURN]

Originally Posted by SAMIAM

I know this stuff happens now and then and it's too bad.Here at the Village Kitchen the riders have been nothing but respectful over the years.We have two large leach fields and in spite of the large volume of traffic to the Red Hill trail and also at the restaurant,no one has left the trails and driven over them.
Hopefully,landowners will understand that it's only a few bad apples and not punish the rest.

SAM & BOB,

You have been most generous towards the MSC. THANKS! Oh and my favorite the 2 Egg Cheese Omelet and Best home Fries any where!

[upthesaukee]

...even if it by relatively few riders.

Riding along Rte 11 in New Durham, that trail has signs all along to stay on the trail.

Riders ride up and down hills on the side of the trails, trampling vegetation, run over and around fields in the Valley Rd area, and further east.

Last year, a rider left Rand Hill Rd (town had given permission to use a section of the road due a change in landowner for part of the D trail) and made a loop through private property, running over natural bushes (as opposed to planted bushes), and the landowner reported it to the town. Almost lost the use of the road over it, and this year's use is pretty much predicated on no problems being reported.

Worst case I have personally seen was about 5 years ago. My wife and I snowshoe, and we broke a trail off our property to a nearby snowmobile trail. We had used it a lot, but always walking in the same track. We sat in our living room one afternoon, and heard a couple of snowmobiles, which was not unusual. However, they got louder and louder, until we saw them coming up our leach field into our front yard. They apologized and said they thought they were following a trail. I told them that they had just run over my leach field and to go across our lawn to the street to get back to the trail. Fortunately, no damage. We put some sticks across the "trail" and accessed the trail from a different, and hopefully less obvious spot.

As others have indicated, it seems that a few people will pay a license fee, and they feel they are entitled to do as they damn well please. You see it snowmobiling, boating, hiking, fishing, etc.

Hopefully, those who break the rules will get caught, and perhaps there will be some enhanced penalties to make them think twice about putting their own selfish interests above the rules that are made for all participants.

End of rant.

PS. I don't snowmobile anymore, but have allowed access for a trail to be built through our back woods to aid in the continuation of the D trail on Rand Hill Rd.

[SIKSUKR]

Not trying to be a wiseguy or excusing bad trailriding behavior but how does riding on snow covered terrain ruin a leach field that is buried 4+ feet down.FWIW I dont own a snowmobile and I wouldnt want people using my yard with their sleds either.Am I missing something?

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Not trying to be a wiseguy or excusing bad trailriding behavior but how does riding on snow covered terrain ruin a leach field that is buried 4+ feet down.FWIW I dont own a snowmobile and I wouldnt want people using my yard with their sleds either.Am I missing something?

When our septic system was installed, the whole system was open for viewing by the state inspector.

Once the inspection was completed, it did not seem like there was 4 feet of sand over the tubes or the D box.

I do know that the snow melts off the septic tank and leach field a lot faster than the rest of the area.

(No wiseguy thoughts here, BTW )

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

Not trying to be a wiseguy or excusing bad trailriding behavior but how does riding on snow covered terrain ruin a leach field that is buried 4+ feet down.FWIW I dont own a snowmobile and I wouldnt want people using my yard with their sleds either.Am I missing something?

SIK, it is not an issue when we have good snowpack formed with dense snow. The stuff we have this year is workable but just about any sled can dig down to the grass or dirt underneath (which is still soft due to the insulating snow). Also, many of our landowner issues are caused during the beginning and end of the season as there is less snow cover.

There are 7000 miles of trails in NH alone, and countless acres of lakes and ponds with no SL to ride on.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

SIK, it is not an issue when we have good snowpack formed with dense snow. The stuff we have this year is workable but just about any sled can dig down to the grass or dirt underneath (which is still soft due to the insulating snow). Also, many of our landowner issues are caused during the beginning and end of the season as there is less snow cover.

There are 7000 miles of trails in NH alone, and countless acres of lakes and ponds with no SL to ride on.

What does that have anything to do with this thread?

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

What does that have anything to do with this thread?

I guess SL means state land, so I'll take a stab at it. I think VitaBene is saying that the trail system relies heavily on private land to exist the way it is.

[HellRaZoR004]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

I guess SL means state land, so I'll take a stab at it. I think VitaBene is saying that the trail system relies heavily on private land to exist the way it is.

I'll agree with this spin...but not sure that was what it meant. However, speed and off-trail are two separate topics IMO. Both have controversy and usually those topics go nowhere fast

[HomeWood]

Ah, speed limit. It was the ride on part that got me there.

[jeffatsquam]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

What does that have anything to do with this thread?

It fits this thread just fine. What Vita is saying is there is 1,000's of miles of trails to ride and if you need to go really fast you can go on a lake or a pond.

(sL) I think means speed limit.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by HellRaZoR004

What does that have anything to do with this thread?

There is a 45mph speed limit on trails in NH and there is no SL on the lakes in the winter. The thread is about how trails get closed. I responded as the president of the club that has to deal with this stuff that if you want to go fast and rip stuff up there are acres of ice covered lakes that you can go as fast as you want (within reason) on.

SL may have some other connotation to you

[VitaBene]

My apologies if I was not clear. I was not trying to say anything about the lake in its unfrozen state

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

There is a 45mph speed limit on trails in NH and there is no SL on the lakes in the winter. The thread is about how trails get closed. I responded as the president of the club that has to deal with this stuff that if you want to go fast and rip stuff up there are acres of ice covered lakes that you can go as fast as you want (within reason) on.

SL may have some other connotation to you

I have to disagree here. I know of a party three years ago that was cited by F&G for traveling over the speed limit on Squam Lake. Maybe Squam is an exception to the rule??????

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

I have to disagree here. I know of a party three years ago that was cited by F&G for traveling over the speed limit on Squam Lake. Maybe Squam is an exception to the rule??????

This is the latest as far as I know- there is always reasonable and prudent

"20MPH on certain roads and/or portions are open when applied for by local club or the Bureau of Trails. When they are open, they are posted. Otherwise all public ways are closed. Same rule applies for open road shoulders and ditches, still within the right-of-way. Speed limit on trails is 45 mph unless otherwise posted.

On lakes, 10 mph when within 150 feet of any fisherman, their shanty or fishing hole. Also, speed that is reasonable and prudent for conditions then existing."

[Lakegeezer]

Sounds like new rules to revoke snowmobile registration for off-trail use might be in order. Use of motion detection wildlife cameras could catch the offenders. Without some action, the sport is going to whither.

[dam1960]

The longer track sleds are the new rage. All the sled manufactures and dealers are pushing the longer tracks. Which are made for and encourages off trail riding.

It's what all the "cool" kids are riding.

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by dam1960

The longer track sleds are the new rage. All the sled manufactures and dealers are pushing the longer tracks. Which are made for and encourages off trail riding.

It's what all the "cool" kids are riding.

This is true but I'd take it a step further. It's the long track with more aggressive paddles, more advanced suspension and chassis that allow for a "perception" of better handling over various terrain and power plants that put out an insane amount of power. Not that this is bad per say, but for many to go fast, many times to fast is way to tempting. Nevermind all the videos of guys doing some pretty crazy stunts that egg on those dumb enough to tempt fate.

I got nothing against the advances in technology I mean a modern day machine is a far cry from the stuff that was out 15+ years ago, but at the end of the day those that have them need to respect what they can do and use them responsibly. Sadly that's not always the case.

[SAB1]

Agree maxum. You touched on a point I often make while people debate ethical and unethical shots on deer. The videos and internet give false sense of security to many.

[wifi]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

This is true but I'd take it a step further. It's the long track with more aggressive paddles, more advanced suspension and chassis that allow for a "perception" of better handling over various terrain and power plants that put out an insane amount of power. Not that this is bad per say, but for many to go fast, many times to fast is way to tempting. Nevermind all the videos of guys doing some pretty crazy stunts that egg on those dumb enough to tempt fate.

I got nothing against the advances in technology I mean a modern day machine is a far cry from the stuff that was out 15+ years ago, but at the end of the day those that have them need to respect what they can do and use them responsibly. Sadly that's not always the case.

Its the same with automobiles and drivers today. The laws of physics won't give them a court date.

[nhcatrider]

Being a rider of a high powered sled, I'm going to chime in on this one. I ride a f1000 snopro that has been tuned, 1.7" paddle and a ton of studs. That being said, I am well aware of the damage that I can do to a trail or someone's lawn very easily. The main purpose of my sled is to fly across lakes and satisfy a true need for speed. On the trails, it does have good manners, one just has to be cautious with the throttle to avoid digging up trails. I ride it about an even mix of lake and trail and am respectful of landowners and other users. I do think there needs to be more education in this sport as well as more enforcement. Our local club, Town Line Trail Dusters, has had its fair share of issues as well, including a destroyed electric fence last year, and numerous trail closures and reroutes over the years. Maybe better instruction from the dealership that sells the new high powered sled with a huge track on it?

[upthesaukee]

In two vocations, insurance and retail, we often referred to an 80/20 rule. 80% of your problems would be caused by 20% of you customers.

As I observe things going on through the snowmobile threads here, and my own observations on my own property's trail and neighboring areas, I have to think that a similar ratio applies here in snowmobiling (and probably boating). It would seem that a relatively small percentage of operators are responsible for most of the problems in our use of resources.

Sad state of affairs that a few can cause so many problems for so many.

[stynx55]

I ride a so called High power sled. I have been riding 30 years and never had issues. This year I was almost taken out in Moltonboro by a dumb ass riding an Arctic cat two up and wearing an M&M's painted full face helmet. Pulled right out from by were the MSC groomer was parked, never looked, stopped or yielded way to me or my buddy who were on the main trail. My buddy was so infuriated he wanted to chase him down and let him have it. IF we had been riding fast I would have T-boned this idiot, but we were not and were able to stop. Idiots ride all type sleds. YMMV

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by Lakegeezer

Sounds like new rules to revoke snowmobile registration for off-trail use might be in order. Use of motion detection wildlife cameras could catch the offenders. Without some action, the sport is going to whither.

I will be advocating the purchase of these cameras at our next BOD meeting!

[ishoot308]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I will be advocating the purchase of these cameras at our next BOD meeting!

Be advised John that these cameras get stolen on a regular basis. Portable tree stands are another. Hunters leave them up thinking no one will ever see it or find it...

Dan

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

Be advised John that these cameras get stolen on a regular basis. Portable tree stands are another. Hunters leave them up thinking no one will ever see it or find it...

Dan

Thanks Dan! I hear you on that, but we need to try something!

[HomeWood]

Originally Posted by VitaBene

I will be advocating the purchase of these cameras at our next BOD meeting!

They might work assuming registration numbers are readable. Maybe not a criminal penalty but a civil penalty could be possible for sleds that are caught off trail. The evidence needed for a civil infraction is a lot less than criminal. Somebody has to be charged in a criminal case and proving who was on the sled would likely be the hardest part. It may not necessarily be the registered owner. How about something similar to parking tickets where the car is cited and not whoever drove it. Now that registration is done through computer, a block on a registration could easily be put on a vehicle's VIN# until such civil citation is paid. Any video or photos would have to be shown to a F&G officer or any officer with jurisdiction and then a civil penalty could be mailed out if they deem a violation occurred. Proceeds for such civil penalties could be used to fund the enforcement and go back to the sled clubs in the form of grants.

There only so many F&G Officers but a great place for them to sit in the shadows would be the field on M. Neck Rd. How that landowner still allows the trail there (thankfully) is beyond me. Is there a specific charge besides maybe trespassing for intentionally riding off trail?

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by HomeWood

They might work assuming registration numbers are readable. Maybe not a criminal penalty but a civil penalty could be possible for sleds that are caught off trail. The evidence needed for a civil infraction is a lot less than criminal. Somebody has to be charged in a criminal case and proving who was on the sled would likely be the hardest part. It may not necessarily be the registered owner. How about something similar to parking tickets where the car is cited and not whoever drove it. Now that registration is done through computer, a block on a registration could easily be put on a vehicle's VIN# until such civil citation is paid. Any video or photos would have to be shown to a F&G officer or any officer with jurisdiction and then a civil penalty could be mailed out if they deem a violation occurred. Proceeds for such civil penalties could be used to fund the enforcement and go back to the sled clubs in the form of grants.

There only so many F&G Officers but a great place for them to sit in the shadows would be the field on M. Neck Rd. How that landowner still allows the trail there (thankfully) is beyond me. Is there a specific charge besides maybe trespassing for intentionally riding off trail?

That landowner passed away last year. The property is for sale so only time will tell what happens. Another friend hays that field so he is never happy when he sees the off trail stuff going on!