... radiator flush-outs for less?

[fatlazyless]

Ok.....so, for 88-cents I got the little anti-freeze tester from Wal-Mart which has five little balls. My car has about 75k miles and has been through two winters so far on the same anti-freeze so I'm thinking that new anti-freeze is due? The little eye dropper style tester for 88-cents shows three out of five balls floating and that translates to 'anti-freeze good down to....... ten below zero......which is not low enough for me.....since it can get down to 20-below in this area....plus, I once actually lost a car that was totally destroyed due to a 20-below freeze-up.


Where-o-where-o-where is there an el cheapo radiator anti-freeze flush-out that does not cost 90-dollars which seems incredibly expensive for what is done. Seems like it should cost maybe 40-dollars ....... anyone know who does anti-freeze flush-outs for less?

[Outdoorsman]

My 2004 Camry is just shy of 300K. I bought it new off the lot. Never had an issue with heating/cooling in 12 years, so I have never pulled the cap on the radiator. I write this just to show how long you CAN go without issue.

Side note: I see Automotive places offering free tests for such things.... I am sure they have a catch, but if you know a little about your vehicle I am sure you can drive away with an answer.

[NoBozo]

I have had ALL Toyotas since 1974. With a brief sojourn to Honda in 1979 with an Accord & a CVCC Civic. All bought NEW. When they were sold they were sold because we were bored. Mileage at sale from 90,000 to 150,000 miles. We NEVER had a radiator Flush..EVER. That's a SCAM.

All were manual transmissions. NO transmission flushes either. Scam.

Now we have automatic transmissions....doesn't everybody..??

Todays automobiles are So Reliable..that the dealers have to be Very Creative.. to generate revenue. There are owners out there who don't have the knowledge, backed up by common sense, to know when they are being scammed.... Truly. NB

[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by NoBozo

I have had ALL Toyotas since 1974. With a brief sojourn to Honda in 1979 with an Accord & a CVCC Civic. All bought NEW. When they were sold they were sold because we were bored. Mileage at sale from 90,000 to 150,000 miles. We NEVER had a radiator Flush..EVER. That's a SCAM.

All were manual transmissions. NO transmission flushes either. Scam.

Now we have automatic transmissions....doesn't everybody..??

Todays automobiles are So Reliable..that the dealers have to be Very Creative.. to generate revenue. There are owners out there who don't have the knowledge, backed up by common sense, to know when they are being scammed.... Truly. NB

Hmm... guess you don't read your owners manual then.

Up until Toyota came out with their extended life antifreeze (pink in color) they had their factory fluid (red in color) Standard replacement interval for the red is 30K for the extended life 100K. Think this is a scam? Well I can tell you for a fact that over time the fluid does two things, it breaks down and eventually looses it's protective properties and secondly like oil, particles become suspended in the fluid eventually settling in the cooling ports, left long enough can clog them up and reduce significantly the system from being able to sufficiently circulate fluid. This is especially a problem if there is a minor breech in the system, a foreign fluid is mixed in (even if it is radiator fluid, many cause a reaction causing internal corrosion or worst yet a bottle of stop leak is dumped in. In extreme cases heater cores and radiators are the first to get plugged up. Seen it enough working as a tech for Toyota to say this is no "bozo"

Transmissions are the same story, whether it be manual or automatic. With a manual transmission the gears over time naturally will wear in the same manner an engine will, over time the fluid will start to get fine metal grit suspended in the fluid. The majority of that wear comes in the first 10K or so as the transmission breaks in. Now they do install magnets on the drain plug to attract the particles which does do some good but not enough to just ignore it. Likewise in an automatic over time there is wear not only in the gears themselves but the clutch packs too. If anything the contamination of the fluid in a automatic is far worse, which is why if you crack open the pan from the bottom of an automatic you will typically find several magnets stuck to the bottom of the pan, for the same purpose. Furthermore the more grit that is in the auto transmission fluid the more wear that will cause the clutch packs thus shortening the life of the transmission. It's also not uncommon to see the filters full of crap as well. This is a good illustration as to not only why it's important to regularly service your transmission but also that it is done right, pan off, filters taken out and cleaned, pan and magnets cleaned, new fluid installed. Simply flushing the system or draining the pan and replacing what has been removed does not do the job. In fact just draining the pan only removes about half of the fluid in the system. So adding new fluid just makes the new fluid does little as it will quickly become as contaminated as what was just drained out.

Now that said - Toyota has been slowly introducing automatic transmissions reciently starting in the Lexus lineup slowly bleeding into the mainstream Toyota lineup that do not get serviced, they are sealed units. The reason they can get away with that is the type of fluid that is being used combined with the electronics that are used to control the shift points. This has allowed them to move away from the clutchpack/hydraulically controlled systems of the past. It also makes them much more reliable. Even so there are mixed opinons as to whether or not these units are indeed maintenance free for a lifetime of use. Keep in mind that the manufacturers don't necessarily count on the average vehicle to be driven hundreds of thousands of miles, so their idea of lifetime and your may not be the same.

All that said can you drive a car that long and not replace these fluids, sure, are you damaging them as a result, well maybe not to the point of all out failure, but you're certainly shortening their lifespan by not doing it.

[KPW]

[Top-Water]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok.....so, for 88-cents I got the little anti-freeze tester from Wal-Mart

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Side note: I see Automotive places offering free tests for such things.... I am sure they have a catch, but if you know a little about your vehicle I am sure you can drive away with an answer.

I think I would follow Outdoorsman's advice on this. The 88 cent Walmart tester is probably not that accurate. It would be a shame if you spent any additional monies on something you did not need. The really cold weather is still a few months away, plenty of time to get some second opinions, price quotes, and maybe more accurate test results.

Personally I would just change the fluid and avoid anything advertised or marketed as a flush especially if the flush uses any kind of a chemical that is "supposed" to clean the inside of the engine but may damage the seals on the water pump unless you know or have been advised that it really really needs that service. Sometimes these (left behind/ residual) cleaning agents do more damage than good.

Modern cooling systems and the newer coolants have made the "old fashioned" coolant flush (that I always did years ago) somewhat a thing of the past.

My current personal experience.
1999 Chevy truck original owner with 310,000 miles. Original radiator, heater core and water pump. Coolant only changed once over the past 17 years without any other additives. Only occasionally topped-off with very very small amounts of 50-50 blend to account for evaporation.

[dpg]

I take the side of a simple "change out" once in awhile. I drive Hondas and they do recommend "flushes" at least on their transmissions. I drain/refill the trans fluid now annually (104,000 miles.) for 25.00 in fluid and 25 minutes of my time I sleep better at night knowing it's getting changed. Just my .02 to each his own I suppose. They also drain/refill coolant at about 90.00 dealer price. I drop 10.00 like it's nothing buying a sub for lunch to me my car is certainly worth 100 bucks annually (or less) for again piece of mind. Am I wasting my money, maybe but I've spent it on dumber things.

[dpg]

Edit to my last post Honda "does not" recommend flushes only drain-refills...

[dpg]

it's 100.00 to change it anywhere or possibly cheaper if you shop around. 100.00 you need to spend potentially every couple years I think you can find somewhere in your budget. Get it done, spend the money and you'll probably put your mind at ease because of it. If it could of waited so what it's a 100.00 most of us will spend that this coming long weekend on dumber things.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Hmm... guess you don't read your owners manual then.


Now that said - Toyota has been slowly introducing automatic transmissions reciently starting in the Lexus lineup slowly bleeding into the mainstream Toyota lineup that do not get serviced, they are sealed units.

These are the Aisin branded automatic transmissions. A Toyota joint venture.

I had one of these automatic transmission. I had a 2004 automobile that has one. This car is still going strong right now. "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid. No dipstick.

BUT.
Read the owners manual. On my car it states to change this "Lifetime" fluid at 60,000 miles under hard use and 100,000 miles on normal use. I had the fluid changed at 80,000 miles.

Read the manual.

As far as radiator goes. Never put any "cleaner" in it. Too many potential issues. Just do a gravity drain and refill with correct fluid and mixture. Dispose of properly. It's usually a simple petcock valve on bottom of radiator.
Be careful as some are plastic now.

Most (not all) engines today are aluminum alloy and rust is not that big of a factor. All radiators today are aluminum and again don't rust.
As stated above, fluid does break down over time.
I change antifreeze every 2 years. Cheap money for the satisfaction.

[NoBozo]

My wife's 2014.5 Camry SE owners manual has 620 pages.

My Brand NEW DELL XPS 8900 Desktop computer (W/Windows 10) manual has .....NO MANUAL. NB

[fatlazyless]

Ok, so's with the coming cold weather, I finally got around to replacing the anti-freeze in my 85000-mile, three year old car the other day and I am pleased with the result; it went very good, and what would cost maybe $175 at a car repair service cost me just the price of the anti-freeze .....about $25. With the little Wal-mart, 88-cent, eye drop style tester, it had tested to minus-10 degrees with the old anti-freeze, and with the new antifreeze, it tests out to a lot colder....like minus-40 or so....with all five little balls suspended in the new anti-freeze in the tester.....plus new anti-freeze is good for the inside of the engine.

So's now .................................... how do I get rid of these two sturdy plastic, one-gallon containers of used anti-freeze?

If I were to ask Governor-elect Chris Sununu, age-42, who hiked the entire 2000-mile Appalachian Trail in 1998, what to do with my two plastic bottles of used anti-freeze here in Meredith, NH ..... what would he tell me, seriously?

I suspect I will have to hold onto them, and store them until the summer, July or August-2017, environmental hazards disposal day, at the Meredith town transfer station, is what I am thinking? On the other hand, it is tempting to just go put the bottle(s) into a plastic bag, and go stick it into an outside trash container at a gas station when buying gas, and let it be their problem.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok, so's with the coming cold weather, I finally got around to replacing the anti-freeze in my 85000-mile, three year old car the other day and I am pleased with the result; it went very good, and what would cost maybe $175 at a car repair service cost me just the price of the anti-freeze .....about $25. With the little Wal-mart, 88-cent, eye drop style tester, it had tested to minus-10 degrees with the old anti-freeze, and with the new antifreeze, it tests out to a lot colder....like minus-40 or so....with all five little balls suspended in the new anti-freeze in the tester.....plus new anti-freeze is good for the inside of the engine.

So's now .................................... how do I get rid of these two sturdy plastic, one-gallon containers of used anti-freeze?

If I were to ask Governor-elect Chris Sununu, age-42, who hiked the entire 2000-mile Appalachian Trail in 1998, what to do with my two plastic bottles of used anti-freeze here in Meredith, NH ..... what would he tell me, seriously?

I suspect I will have to hold onto them, and store them until the summer, July or August-2017, environmental hazards disposal day, at the Meredith town transfer station, is what I am thinking? On the other hand, it is tempting to just go put the bottle(s) into a plastic bag, and go stick it into an outside trash container at a gas station when buying gas, and let it be their problem.

Or, instead of being a dick, you could go talk to the guys at the gas station when you are buying gas and they might just take it off your hands for free if they like you, or a small fee if they don't.

[fatlazyless]

Ok.....so I googled "Massachusetts haz waste disposal" to see what comes up, considering that Mass is a different and more high powered type of a state government than New Hampshire ...... and from the Massachusetts Energy & Environmental Affairs website found this info on "Recycling and disposal options for anti-freeze":

"Some auto repair shops, quick oil change businesses and new car dealerships accept spent antifreeze at no charge. Check online or in the Yellow Pages for one in your area."

Ok......so, considering I bought my car, new, from Irwin's in Laconia, and they have good quality, free coffee in their waiting room ..... plus my Irwin's car has turned out to be......after 85,000-miles.....a totally super-duper, reliable daily driver that is not all that small of a vehicle......that averages 35.3/mpg, over 85,000-miles according to the in-dash mpg monitor......I will go ask at Irwin's to dispose my used 2-gal, haz anti-freeze.

I suspect that Irwin's will probably take it off my hands for free, or for a small fee, but only time will tell?

[fatlazyless]

Ok.....so I originally purchased the 2-gal antifreeze from O'Reilly's/VIP in Laconia last August, or early September, because Wal-Mart did not carry the correct antifreeze I was looking to buy..........and I most likely still have the purchase receipt....so, I will dig out the receipt and take the original plastic one gal bottles, now full with spent old antifreeze ......to the O'Reilly's and here's hoping they will take it either for free or for a small fee.....will let u know in a few days.....what the O'Reilly's policy has to say....

Then.....if O'Reilly's says no.....will give the IrwinZone a try.....

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok.....so, for 88-cents I got the little anti-freeze tester from Wal-Mart which has five little balls. My car has about 75k miles and has been through two winters so far on the same anti-freeze so I'm thinking that new anti-freeze is due? The little eye dropper style tester for 88-cents shows three out of five balls floating and that translates to 'anti-freeze good down to....... ten below zero......which is not low enough for me.....since it can get down to 20-below in this area....plus, I once actually lost a car that was totally destroyed due to a 20-below freeze-up.


Where-o-where-o-where is there an el cheapo radiator anti-freeze flush-out that does not cost 90-dollars which seems incredibly expensive for what is done. Seems like it should cost maybe 40-dollars ....... anyone know who does anti-freeze flush-outs for less?

You should be able to do it yourself for under 40 bucks. If you're looking for a shop to do it for 40 bucks you will have to travel back it time about 15 to 20 years.

[fatlazyless]

....ok, here goes, and someone correct me if I am wrong on this:

If you have a Japanese car, you want to go to a store like O'Reilly's or Napa or Bond's and get the Zerex pre-mixed, red colored antifreeze for Japanese cars....about $15/gal-premixed with water. Wal-mart does not have it.

Start by removing the cap from the see through plastic antifreeze reservoir in the engine compartment, and test the old antifreeze strength with a Wal-mart Prestone 88-cent tester with the five little balls.

A flush out is not called for on a Japanese car. You open the hand operated drain valve located on the lower left hand, inside corner of the radiator and let the old antifreeze drain down into a wide container like an oil change pan. You need to snake your right arm up and into the radiator area, in front of the left front wheel, while laying on the ground to locate the hand turned drain valve. When you feel the little drain valve, turn knob between your fingers, you will know it ...... and think to yourself ..... oh, this must be it.

Keep track of how much old antifreeze drains out by measuring it with a gallon bottle and a funnel. Looking up your vehicle's antifreeze capacity of say 1-gal, 1 1/2-gal, or 2-gal etc is definitely a smart move.

Then, replace the same amount of old with new antifreeze, pouring it very slowly with a funnel into the see through reservoir until the new antifreeze is even with the "full" line on the reservoir.

Start up the engine, let it run for three minutes and watch for any warning lights to come on. If you screw it up.....it's your own danged fault......and rots - o - ruck to u. Honestly, nothing fake here ....... even the fake president could do it.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

....ok, here goes, and someone correct me if I am wrong on this:

If you have a Japanese car, you want to go to a store like O'Reilly's or Napa or Bond's and get the Zerex pre-mixed, red colored antifreeze for Japanese cars....about $15/gal-premixed with water. Wal-mart does not have it.

Start by removing the cap from the see through plastic antifreeze reservoir in the engine compartment, and test the old antifreeze strength with a Wal-mart Prestone 88-cent tester with the five little balls.

A flush out is not called for on a Japanese car. You open the hand operated drain valve located on the lower left hand, inside corner of the radiator and let the old antifreeze drain down into a wide container like an oil change pan. You need to snake your right arm up and into the radiator area, in front of the left front wheel, while laying on the ground to locate the hand turned drain valve. When you feel the little drain valve, turn knob between your fingers, you will know it ...... and think to yourself ..... oh, this must be it.

Keep track of how much old antifreeze drains out by measuring it with a gallon bottle and a funnel. Looking up your vehicle's antifreeze capacity of say 1-gal, 1 1/2-gal, or 2-gal etc is definitely a smart move.

Then, replace the same amount of old with new antifreeze, pouring it very slowly with a funnel into the see through reservoir until the new antifreeze is even with the "full" line on the reservoir.

Start up the engine, let it run for three minutes and watch for any warning lights to come on. If you screw it up.....it's your own danged fault......and rots - o - ruck to u. Honestly, nothing fake here ....... even the fake president could do it.

You are better off buying a gal of straight antifreeze for $20 and just add water to make it a 50/50 mix. You're paying an extra $10 for 2 gallons. We use Dex-cool in Toyota's. It's orange in color but it's not much different than the red used in Toyota's. Most of the coolants today are all made for Aluminum engines. Each manufacturer likes to differentiate their coolant by color. Gm-orange, Toyota-red, Honda-blue, Chrysler-yellow, and so on. Of course if it's under warrantee you want to use the right color.

[Woody38]

Having driven Mopars, then Jaguars and presently Mercedes and growing up with International trucks, I was always told not to touch the tranny. You will find a lot wrong.
Now, drove Mopars over 100,000 miles, Jag also. We put 330,000 miles on one Mercedes and never touched tranny. Dealer says leave it alone. Did replace exhaust around 2000,000 miles. Present Mercedes have few miles, one with 62,000 and the other, SL summer auto with 28,000 miles so no trouble there.
Just change the antifreeze every 2-3 years and you will have no worries.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

Taking the granddaughters for a ride in an antique Chris Craft: Priceless

Wishing all a merry X-Mas and fun in the snow. From sunny Southern California.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Woody38

Having driven Mopars, then Jaguars and presently Mercedes and growing up with International trucks, I was always told not to touch the tranny. You will find a lot wrong.
Now, drove Mopars over 100,000 miles, Jag also. We put 330,000 miles on one Mercedes and never touched tranny. Dealer says leave it alone. Did replace exhaust around 2000,000 miles. Present Mercedes have few miles, one with 62,000 and the other, SL summer auto with 28,000 miles so no trouble there.
Just change the antifreeze every 2-3 years and you will have no worries.

I am a retired workaholic and continuing aquaholic.

Taking the granddaughters for a ride in an antique Chris Craft: Priceless

Wishing all a merry X-Mas and fun in the snow. From sunny Southern California.

I have an Acura MDX 2005, those transmissions need oil to be changed per the manual. On the other hand my 2015 Grand Cherokee is filled for life. Best to go by the owners manual.

[Biggd]

Im an auto mechanic by trade. Ive had my own shop for over 30 years. Im a few years away from retirement so ive been doing this a long time. If i can help anyone, feel free to ask.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[fatlazyless]

Ok with 86k miles, 100k is not too far away, and have been thinking about replacing the four Japanese spark plugs with four identical new plugs purchased from the car dealer.

This seems like it should be relatively easy to do......just remove them one by one, and replace each with new as I go, and put a small amount of anti-seize on the threads of each plug.

Is there more to this ....like something to do with the dealer computer software, individual car program or something sneaky that the the car makers have done to complicate what used to be easy?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Ok with 86k miles, 100k is not too far away, and have been thinking about replacing the four Japanese spark plugs with four identical new plugs purchased from the car dealer.

This seems like it should be relatively easy to do......just remove them one by one, and replace each with new as I go, and put a small amount of anti-seize on the threads of each plug.

Is there more to this ....like something to do with the dealer computer software, individual car program or something sneaky that the the car makers have done to complicate what used to be easy?

I believe you said you have a Camry and I assume it's a 4 cylinder. You don't have to use Toyota plugs, NGK plugs are what we use in Asian vehicles. The only other thing I would recommend is silicone lubricant on the spark plug wires or coil pack ends, which ever you have. This prevents them from sticking to the spark plugs. Also check the holes were the plugs are for oil before you take them out. If there is oil you will need to replace the valve cover gasket.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by ITD

On the other hand my 2015 Grand Cherokee is filled for life. Best to go by the owners manual.

Yes READ the manual.

Lifetime? Whose lifetime?

Your lifetime. The cars lifetime. The transmissions lifetime? The manufacturers warranty lifetime?

Is the word "never" in the manual for changing the transmission fluid?

[BroadHopper]

I have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee with 176K, my 'winter beater'. At 60K miles I had radiator flushed and replace fluid with 'life time' antifreeze. A also 'flushed out' transmission and differentials and replace fluids with synthetics. All bearings repacked with synthetics. I replace the motor oil every 15,000 miles with AMSOIL. Still running like new!

If I can only prevent the body from rusting out, I could see another 15 years!

[ITD]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Yes READ the manual.

Lifetime? Whose lifetime?

Your lifetime. The cars lifetime. The transmissions lifetime? The manufacturers warranty lifetime?

Is the word "never" in the manual for changing the transmission fluid?

Well, I'm not smarter about it than the engineers that designed it, are you?

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by ITD

Well, I'm not smarter about it than the engineers that designed it, are you?

What part of my post is not understood. Written in basic English.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

If I can only prevent the body from rusting out, I could see another 15 years!

YES you can.
As mentioned in another post.

Get the vehicle oil undercoated every year.

My daily driver is a 1997. Zero rust. And not just viewing from standing and looking. But underneath. Zero rust top to bottom.

The proof is in the pudding.

And even if there is some rust now. The treatment STOPS the rust from getting any worse.

The debate about oil undercoating is in another thread on this forum. So don't have to start all over again here in this post.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Yes READ the manual.

Lifetime? Whose lifetime?

Your lifetime. The cars lifetime. The transmissions lifetime? The manufacturers warranty lifetime?

Is the word "never" in the manual for changing the transmission fluid?

2015 jeeps are fill with synthetic transmission fluid and do not require changing. Coolant should be changed at 100,000 miles. All newer vehicles are filled with synthetic fluids now and extended life coolant. It's not like and engine where combustion contributes to the shorter life of the oil.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by songkrai

YES you can.
As mentioned in another post.

Get the vehicle oil undercoated every year.

My daily driver is a 1997. Zero rust. And not just viewing from standing and looking. But underneath. Zero rust top to bottom.

The proof is in the pudding.

And even if there is some rust now. The treatment STOPS the rust from getting any worse.

The debate about oil undercoating is in another thread on this forum. So don't have to start all over again here in this post.

Automotive technology has come a long way since 1997.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by songkrai

What part of my post is not understood. Written in basic English.

I pretty much don't understand your basic english question. The manual says lifetime. If you are asking me what it means to me, then I will tell you. Since my plan is to sell this car at 100,000 miles I suppose that would be considered lifetime for me. Should I change my mind at 100,000 miles and decide to keep it, then lifetime would be as long as I keep it. Now if I have a problem with it, the transmission, then I suppose, depending on the problem, one of the first things I would do is change the fluid and I suppose if that fixed the problem, I would feel comfortable that I had reached its lifetime. If something else is broken, then I would have to decide if it were worth fixing at that point. If it isn't worth fixing then I suppose it would have reached it's lifetime as far as I was concerned. Now in reality if that happened, I would probably trade it in, so even though it's life is over as far as I am concerned, it would probably be valuable to someone else, who would fix it and it's lifetime would be extended.

So anyway, now that I've cleared that up. I have no problem trusting the owners manual and running this suv as long as I own it without changing the transmission fluid, we'll see what happens. I'm pretty sure this car, a jeep grand cherokee with a hemi and 8 speed transmission, doesn't even have a dipstick for the transmission. I've read that it is very sensitive to having the correct fluid in it so I'd rather not mess with it.

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Automotive technology has come a long way since 1997.

Huh?

Don't even understand the response.

If you are stating that cars don't rust anymore. Well, good luck.

Most cars are made out of rolled steel. Whether today or 1997. That hasn't changed.
Most cars are painted. That hasn't changed since 1997.

But if you think that your car has miracle steel and miracle paint, well, God Bless.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Huh?

Don't even understand the response.

If you are stating that cars don't rust anymore. Well, good luck.

Most cars are made out of rolled steel. Whether today or 1997. That hasn't changed.
Most cars are painted. That hasn't changed since 1997.

But if you think that your car has miracle steel and miracle paint, well, God Bless.

I was referring to fluid changes. I just happened to quote your post that mentions you have a 1997 vehicle. The thread started as a coolant changing thread and somehow went off in different directions. I'm trying to help people on here with my 45 years of automotive experience. The only thing they are getting from you is attitude!

[songkrai]

Originally Posted by ITD

On the other hand my 2015 Grand Cherokee is filled for life. Best to go by the owners manual.

Above is what I read.

And this is incorrect as stated below taken from a Jeep forum.

"lifetime" trans fluid doesn't necessarily mean lifetime, it just means "out of warranty".

Whether a ZF automatic transmission in the Jeep or an Aisin automatic transmission in other cars - that state "lifetime" - it does not mean "forever".
This is where people get confused. "Lifetime" and "forever" are not the same.

The automatic transmission fluid does need to be changed. It is not "forever".
Most Owners Manuals service requirements stop at 100,000 miles which is not "forever" in today's vehicles. The owner needs to change the "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid at 100,000 miles if they want a trouble free automatic transmission for many more miles and many more years.

But as this original poster stated - they will probably trade in before the 100,000 miles - so for them, changing the fluid is a moot point as they no longer will have the vehicle. But then it goes to the next owner who may think that the "lifetime" is the same. Or forever, which it is clearly not.

And as for the 1997 vehicle - someone mentioned "rust". I pointed out that there is another thread on this forum which is geared towards vehicles that rust.

And I do also have 45 years in the automotive trade.

And thanks for your input and perspectives.

[Biggd]

45 years and still counting. I'm still in the business today. I'm at least 3 years from retirement.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by songkrai

Above is what I read.

And this is incorrect as stated below taken from a Jeep forum.

"lifetime" trans fluid doesn't necessarily mean lifetime, it just means "out of warranty".

Whether a ZF automatic transmission in the Jeep or an Aisin automatic transmission in other cars - that state "lifetime" - it does not mean "forever".
This is where people get confused. "Lifetime" and "forever" are not the same.

The automatic transmission fluid does need to be changed. It is not "forever".
Most Owners Manuals service requirements stop at 100,000 miles which is not "forever" in today's vehicles. The owner needs to change the "lifetime" automatic transmission fluid at 100,000 miles if they want a trouble free automatic transmission for many more miles and many more years.

But as this original poster stated - they will probably trade in before the 100,000 miles - so for them, changing the fluid is a moot point as they no longer will have the vehicle. But then it goes to the next owner who may think that the "lifetime" is the same. Or forever, which it is clearly not.

And as for the 1997 vehicle - someone mentioned "rust". I pointed out that there is another thread on this forum which is geared towards vehicles that rust.

And I do also have 45 years in the automotive trade.

And thanks for your input and perspectives.

Interesting, was that a quote from a factory engineer on the forum or an internet expert?

[BroadHopper]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Automotive technology has come a long way since 1997.

The original CJ (1982-2001) is the best Jeep made ever. Hands down! The new craps are cheap tin cans compared to the old AMC bodies. Just google or ask any Jeep enthusiast. Sure the electronics makes them so much better. I'd rather be safe in a tank!

Before the Jeep was the Scout, the best of the best! Rotted out before its time. Then the Bronco II, great off road performance! Rotted out in just 4 years. The factory looked the other way. I would not buy another Ford product.

Technology has come a long way, but the bodies became thinner than ever to save weight.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The original CJ (1982-2001) is the best Jeep made ever. Hands down! The new craps are cheap tin cans compared to the old AMC bodies. Just google or ask any Jeep enthusiast. Sure the electronics makes them so much better. I'd rather be safe in a tank!

Before the Jeep was the Scout, the best of the best! Rotted out before its time. Then the Bronco II, great off road performance! Rotted out in just 4 years. The factory looked the other way. I would not buy another Ford product.

Technology has come a long way, but the bodies became thinner than ever to save weight.

Ah, the good old days. I just retired a 1997 Chevy K1500 pick up for a 2011 Chevy K1500 pick up. The 1997 was a great truck and served me well for 20 years but to say it was better than my 2011 is a stretch. Let's just say they are different. The newer models are built for a different buyer. If you want to match the workload of the 1997 K1500 today you have to step up to the K2500. It all depends on your needs. Personally I've never been a Jeep fan. I think they all are a POS, all the way back since AMC owned them. But that's just my opinion, I never liked Chrysler products.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

The original CJ (1982-2001) is the best Jeep made ever. Hands down! The new craps are cheap tin cans compared to the old AMC bodies. Just google or ask any Jeep enthusiast. Sure the electronics makes them so much better. I'd rather be safe in a tank!

Before the Jeep was the Scout, the best of the best! Rotted out before its time. Then the Bronco II, great off road performance! Rotted out in just 4 years. The factory looked the other way. I would not buy another Ford product.

Technology has come a long way, but the bodies became thinner than ever to save weight.

Actually, ask any HONEST Jeep enthusiast, and they'll GRUDGINGLY admit that the JK is superior to the CJ in every way but nostalgia. It's quieter, safer, more fuel efficient, powerful, and---for those REAL Jeepers--more capable. It's probably the only vehicle that has remained true to its heritage.

The JL? Now that might be another story, but if so I believe it'll be because of auto regulations rather than FCA's doing.

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[songkrai]

But back to the radiators.

In the olden days - there was a radiator repair shop in every city. Laconia had one. On South Main Street just before the Belmont Road split.
Radiators were steel and would rust. Engines were mostly cast iron and did rust.

Today we have aluminum radiators and most engines are aluminum alloy.
So the rust issues is minimized.

And with the newer cars there is not even a radiator cap. Just some plastic box.

I have had the fluid/radiator flushed on my car.

At minimum when oil is changed one should at least have the antifreeze checked for temperature.

Has anyone here had the antifreeze changed in vehicles?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by songkrai

But back to the radiators.

In the olden days - there was a radiator repair shop in every city. Laconia had one. On South Main Street just before the Belmont Road split.
Radiators were steel and would rust. Engines were mostly cast iron and did rust.

Today we have aluminum radiators and most engines are aluminum alloy.
So the rust issues is minimized.

And with the newer cars there is not even a radiator cap. Just some plastic box.

I have had the fluid/radiator flushed on my car.

At minimum when oil is changed one should at least have the antifreeze checked for temperature.

Has anyone here had the antifreeze changed in vehicles?

I'm 63 years old and as far back as I can remember radiators were never steel,
They were copper or brass or both and they did not rust. They were repaired with solder just as in soldering a copper or brass plumbing fitting. The rust came from the cast iron blocks rusting not the radiators. I thought you have 45 years in the automotive trade? If that's true you should known that. Radiators are now made of aluminum and plastic for less cost and less weight. They are so cheap to buy new that they aren't worth repairing. If you have ever taken an old copper and brass radiator to the scrap yard you know costs of those materials are out of sight. An old copper or brass radiator will bring almost as much money in scrap as the wholesale cost of a new aluminum and plastic radiator.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by songkrai

But back to the radiators.

In the olden days - there was a radiator repair shop in every city. Laconia had one. On South Main Street just before the Belmont Road split.
Radiators were steel and would rust.

I've worked on many vehicles since the 1950's and have never seen a steel radiator.

There could have been some but I never ran into any.

[BroadHopper]

Yes and they repaired it with solder. Good to go!

I have on of those on the Jeep. Autoserv insist on replacing the radiator for big bucks! The labor from removing the AC core and removing the fan accessories to remover a radiator? I thought they were out of their tree!

There was a guy at NE Tire who said he can repair the radiator for a lot less so I took the chance to have an unknown repair the vehicle. A year later no sign of a leak. And people says new vehicles are better off technology wise. Disposable yes but not repairable.

I bet if I ask for the old radiator, an sell it at a scrap dealer, it could pay for the repair. Good reason not to trust the dealers.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by BroadHopper

Yes and they repaired it with solder. Good to go!

I have on of those on the Jeep. Autoserv insist on replacing the radiator for big bucks! The labor from removing the AC core and removing the fan accessories to remover a radiator? I thought they were out of their tree!

There was a guy at NE Tire who said he can repair the radiator for a lot less so I took the chance to have an unknown repair the vehicle. A year later no sign of a leak. And people says new vehicles are better off technology wise. Disposable yes but not repairable.

I bet if I ask for the old radiator, an sell it at a scrap dealer, it could pay for the repair. Good reason not to trust the dealers.

Just like everything else, everything is made today to throw away and replace with new.

[ITD]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Just like everything else, everything is made today to throw away and replace with new.

I'll have to say though, radiators seem much more reliable now then they were in the past. Also, relatively speaking, they are probably cheaper to produce and much lighter weight with the new technologies.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ITD

I'll have to say though, radiators seem much more reliable now then they were in the past. Also, relatively speaking, they are probably cheaper to produce and much lighter weight with the new technologies.

So aren't automobiles. Anyone that thinks those old cars were better is living in the past. Cars and trucks today are so much better, more reliable, better on fuel, safer, and generally go a lot more miles than older models. Like I said, I've been working on cars and trucks for 45 years. Anything built in America in the 80's was pure junk! I love old cars, I have a 67 Corvette. But I will be the first to admit that the new Corvettes are lights years better. Driving the 67 just takes me back in time to my simpler youth. Sometimes I just need that!