WOW Trail Phase 3 Heating up...

[Redbarn]

They should allow golf carts on the trail, might sway some opinion, being able to drive from south down the weirs to Meredith on a cart sounds like fun. Kind of shrink the community's and tie them together. Just a thought.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

They should allow golf carts on the trail, might sway some opinion, being able to drive from south down the weirs to Meredith on a cart sounds like fun. Kind of shrink the community's and tie them together. Just a thought.

That's what they do in many over 55 villages in Florida, such as The Villages that is a huge community where the main mode of transportation is the golf cart, but in this case I do not think it would be very safe for the walkers, cyclists and runners

[Redbarn]

Originally Posted by joey2665

That's what they do in many over 55 villages in Florida, such as The Villages that is a huge community where the main mode of transportation is the golf cart, but in this case I do not think it would be very safe for the walkers, cyclists and runners

Yeah I knew that would be the argument against. But l would argue I am more dangerous on a bicycle going twice as fast as golf cart to a pedestrian than a golf cart.
I would also say like you said in Florida it is very common to mix carts with everything else, even on the street with cars. Even here south down, Meredith Bay, Grosse point, they mix the two. The cart path from Meredith Bay to Akwa mixes the two at a very steep grade and is still safe for pedestrians.

Don't get me wrong I know it will never happen but if the wow trail had to happen this would make it cool. Fun to talk about.

(side note, still wish the tracks had a pedestrian trolley)

[Major]

Grouse Point has steep grades too. When my parents lived there, a 12-year old girl died rolling a golf cart down a steep embankment. Kind of off topic, but golf carts, while fun, can be dangerous on steep hills.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

Yeah I knew that would be the argument against. But l would argue I am more dangerous on a bicycle going twice as fast as golf cart to a pedestrian than a golf cart.

I would also say like you said in Florida it is very common to mix carts with everything else, even on the street with cars. Even here south down, Meredith Bay, Grosse point, they mix the two. The cart path from Meredith Bay to Akwa mixes the two at a very steep grade and is still safe for pedestrians.



Don't get me wrong I know it will never happen but if the wow trail had to happen this would make it cool. Fun to talk about.



(side note, still wish the tracks had a pedestrian trolley)

I think it would be awesome to take the golf cart to the weirs or Meredith. Wishful thinking.


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[AC2717]

I just wanted to be the 100th post on this thread

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by AC2717

I just wanted to be the 100th post on this thread

"Joey" won that distinction, but you did win the prize for being the 100th reply! No idea way the prize is, but you won it. 😁

Sent from my SM-G930V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

"Joey" won that distinction, but you did win the prize for being the 100th reply! No idea way the prize is, but you won it. 😁

Sent from my SM-G930V using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

you are right, dam it, I used the wrong word,
I just wanted to be the 100th reply lol

[Winopt]

Why does the WOW trail have to be seasonal? It would make a great snowmobile trail as well.

[BroadHopper]

If they want to preserve the land, why are they building on the land? They should leave it alone and let nature do her thing! Preservation my butt!

[baygo]

Originally Posted by Redbarn

They should allow golf carts on the trail, might sway some opinion, being able to drive from south down the weirs to Meredith on a cart sounds like fun. Kind of shrink the community's and tie them together. Just a thought.

I own and operate a restaurant that abuts the SD/LB community. My first summer the residents were coming by way of golf cart. Word of this spread by way of many channels and created additional interest in owning a home there. I'm approved by the city to offer groceries as well. Just as I was about to per sue that someone decided to start putting obstacles in the way of the golf carts. I dropped my interest in groceries.

I wouldn't be surprised by it if the trail gets built and bikers encounter big rocks placed on the trail. I think the trail organizers seriously need to consider this in their maintenance and upkeep projections.

[jeffk]

I would think this is not just a maintenance issue. If someone was injured due to people deliberately placing rocks on the WOW trail it could become a criminal issue.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by jeffk

I would think this is not just a maintenance issue. If someone was injured due to people deliberately placing rocks on the WOW trail it could become a criminal issue.

You are absolutely right, terrible things could come from, and easily be classified criminal from, some maliciously placed boulders. A reality is: how do you catch the culprit? Yes people could get hurt and a lot of money would be wasted on removing the boulders in the interim.

In a previous post I mention a potential alternative of bringing the trail down Elm Street to Parade Road and up to Severance Rd, then down to the tracks on what I referred to as the snowmobile trail through the state forest. That post was apposed by two seemingly legitimate views. The first states that the state would be foolish to allow easement. I've since remembered that the snowmobile trail I referenced is actually a class 6 Town Rd. I would hope that is something to work with. The second states that the WOW trail federal funding only applies to construction on the rail road track. To this I encourage we take a closer look and get creative for another source of funding for an alternate portion of the trail.

A large percentage of the alternate trail I propose is already paved therefore there would not be as significant of an expenditure to create a rideable surface. If the calculation turns out that the expense to connect Severance back to the tracks is more than what is saved with the alternate route pre-paved surface, and the trail organizers find a shortfall from the government funding, I have this solution. Work out a deal with us to create the WOW Welcome Center on the corner of Severance and Parade. We have the land and I'm certain that if Alan Beetle and I sat down at a table and talked about it, we could come up with a strategy that gave this WOW welcome center a foundation for profit through food and beverage. Those profits or a potion of, can be dedicated to the trail to offset the expense.

Please understand that to help make this happen, we would likely lose some of our realestate. I would hope that in appreciation of said sacrifice the SD/LB community would find a permanent way for golf cart access to The Mystic Meadows.

There we have it. The trail gets built, SD/LB don't have to deal with a fence and other concerns. Trail riders have a great welcome center and nobody crashes into a boulder.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by baygo

You are absolutely right, terrible things could come from, and easily be classified criminal from, some maliciously placed boulders. A reality is: how do you catch the culprit? Yes people could get hurt and a lot of money would be wasted on removing the boulders in the interim.

In a previous post I mention a potential alternative of bringing the trail down Elm Street to Parade Road and up to Severance Rd, then down to the tracks on what I referred to as the snowmobile trail through the state forest. That post was apposed by two seemingly legitimate views. The first states that the state would be foolish to allow easement. I've since remembered that the snowmobile trail I referenced is actually a class 6 Town Rd. I would hope that is something to work with. The second states that the WOW trail federal funding only applies to construction on the rail road track. To this I encourage we take a closer look and get creative for another source of funding for an alternate portion of the trail.

A large percentage of the alternate trail I propose is already paved therefore there would not be as significant of an expenditure to create a rideable surface. If the calculation turns out that the expense to connect Severance back to the tracks is more than what is saved with the alternate route pre-paved surface, and the trail organizers find a shortfall from the government funding, I have this solution. Work out a deal with us to create the WOW Welcome Center on the corner of Severance and Parade. We have the land and I'm certain that if Alan Beetle and I sat down at a table and talked about it, we could come up with a strategy that gave this WOW welcome center a foundation for profit through food and beverage. Those profits or a potion of, can be dedicated to the trail to offset the expense.

Please understand that to help make this happen, we would likely lose some of our realestate. I would hope that in appreciation of said sacrifice the SD/LB community would find a permanent way for golf cart access to The Mystic Meadows.

There we have it. The trail gets built, SD/LB don't have to deal with a fence and other concerns. Trail riders have a great welcome center and nobody crashes into a boulder.

I'm not totally familiar with the routes proposed, but this sounds as if anyone who doesn't want the path near them just needs to threaten a lawsuit and come up with another option. Isn't the point of the path to be along the lake?

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

[jeffk]

Originally Posted by baygo

You are absolutely right, terrible things could come from, and easily be classified criminal from, some maliciously placed boulders. A reality is: how do you catch the culprit? Yes people could get hurt and a lot of money would be wasted on removing the boulders in the interim.

In a previous post I mention a potential alternative of bringing the trail down Elm Street to Parade Road and up to Severance Rd, then down to the tracks on what I referred to as the snowmobile trail through the state forest. That post was apposed by two seemingly legitimate views. The first states that the state would be foolish to allow easement. I've since remembered that the snowmobile trail I referenced is actually a class 6 Town Rd. I would hope that is something to work with. The second states that the WOW trail federal funding only applies to construction on the rail road track. To this I encourage we take a closer look and get creative for another source of funding for an alternate portion of the trail.

A large percentage of the alternate trail I propose is already paved therefore there would not be as significant of an expenditure to create a rideable surface. If the calculation turns out that the expense to connect Severance back to the tracks is more than what is saved with the alternate route pre-paved surface, and the trail organizers find a shortfall from the government funding, I have this solution. Work out a deal with us to create the WOW Welcome Center on the corner of Severance and Parade. We have the land and I'm certain that if Alan Beetle and I sat down at a table and talked about it, we could come up with a strategy that gave this WOW welcome center a foundation for profit through food and beverage. Those profits or a potion of, can be dedicated to the trail to offset the expense.

Please understand that to help make this happen, we would likely lose some of our realestate. I would hope that in appreciation of said sacrifice the SD/LB community would find a permanent way for golf cart access to The Mystic Meadows.

There we have it. The trail gets built, SD/LB don't have to deal with a fence and other concerns. Trail riders have a great welcome center and nobody crashes into a boulder.

WOW! (no pun intended) So the way to avoid your terrorist boulder placers is to adopt your plan? Moving boulders isn't a casual effort and should be detectable. How about we make every effort to find out who they are and throw them in jail and put their mugs on posters along the trail. "Look out for and report these thugs!".

To be clear, I really don't care if an alternative trail route is decided on. If all are happy about it, great. I applaud offering this alternative solution.

I REALLY DON'T like making decisions based on veiled threats and intimidation. Court fights are one thing. That is how society works out it's differences. Threatened boulders in the trail are a whole different thing. It's like walking into a discussion with a blatantly obvious weapon with the clear intention of intimidating the other people in the room. Cowering before criminals is NOT a good plan to deal with the situation. Talk about a WRONG message.

[jetskier]

Hi all,

Generally, I prefer to stay out of the discussion, but I thought it prudent to supply a few facts.

• I laud baygo's offer to broker a solution.
• Multiple alternative routes (including the one supported by baygo) have been suggested to the WOW Org by SD/LB. This includes the route that baygo has suggested. The reticence to negotiate an alternative is certainly not on the part of SD/LB. I would encourage baygo to meet with Alan and Gretchen to provide his views. That would be helpful and his offer is generous.
• The litigation is not something that SD/LB wanted to initiate. There have been many attempts to reach an alternative route with the WOW Org. This was an action of last resort and not a punitive response.
• The land that connects SD/LB with baygo is privately owned. SD/LB have no say as to whether golf carts are or are not allowed. Perhaps baygo could meet with the owners and work something out.

Jetskier

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Hi all,

Generally, I prefer to stay out of the discussion, but I thought it prudent to supply a few facts.

• I laud baygo's offer to broker a solution.
• Multiple alternative routes (including the one supported by baygo) have been suggested to the WOW Org by SD/LB. This includes the route that baygo has suggested. The reticence to negotiate an alternative is certainly not on the part of SD/LB. I would encourage baygo to meet with Alan and Gretchen to provide his views. That would be helpful and his offer is generous.
• The litigation is not something that SD/LB wanted to initiate. There have been many attempts to reach an alternative route with the WOW Org. This was an action of last resort and not a punitive response.
• The land that connects SD/LB with baygo is privately owned. SD/LB have no say as to whether golf carts are or are not allowed. Perhaps baygo could meet with the owners and work something out.

Jetskier

Thank you Jetskier very informative.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by jetskier

The land that connects SD/LB with baygo is privately owned. SD/LB have no say as to whether golf carts are or are not allowed. Perhaps baygo could meet with the owners and work something out.


Jetskier

Thank you. You may not chime in often but when you do, it's valued.

The exterior borders of the property that you state is privetly owned has a 6 foot
communal border defined by a strip of grass that is cut by SD maintenance. Just enough for a cart trail.

[Paugus]

Originally Posted by jetskier

Hi all,

Generally, I prefer to stay out of the discussion, but I thought it prudent to supply a few facts.

• I laud baygo's offer to broker a solution.
• Multiple alternative routes (including the one supported by baygo) have been suggested to the WOW Org by SD/LB. This includes the route that baygo has suggested. The reticence to negotiate an alternative is certainly not on the part of SD/LB. I would encourage baygo to meet with Alan and Gretchen to provide his views. That would be helpful and his offer is generous.
• The litigation is not something that SD/LB wanted to initiate. There have been many attempts to reach an alternative route with the WOW Org. This was an action of last resort and not a punitive response.
• The land that connects SD/LB with baygo is privately owned. SD/LB have no say as to whether golf carts are or are not allowed. Perhaps baygo could meet with the owners and work something out.

Jetskier

Did anyone see this? http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...ndini-6-22-615

"They asked if an alternative route (not along the lakeshore) had ever been considered and I was able to explain that, as recently as February, we had suggested an alternative route through their property for consideration, but that this alternative route had been rejected by their executive board."

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Did anyone see this? http://www.laconiadailysun.com/speci...ndini-6-22-615

"They asked if an alternative route (not along the lake shore) had ever been considered and I was able to explain that, as recently as February, we had suggested an alternative route through their property for consideration, but that this alternative route had been rejected by their executive board."

The engagement occurred when the attorney for SD/LB wanted to reach out one more time to see if a solution could be reached. This was an attempt to avoid litigation. He met with Alan Beetle; Alan proposed a route that crossed Laconia CC (private property and crossed across SD and village private property (and crossed through Outerbridge Drive). A source for Laconia CC indicated that they would not allow the trail on their private property (either).

The proposal from Baygo and SD is to route up Elm Street and across Rt 106. The trail could either go down Severance Drive or continue about 1.2 miles on Rt 106 where it could directly cut into the state forest. There was an engineering study done a while back proposing this as the best route. If the WOW org wants a copy, it can be supplied.

Advantages:

+ Baygo has offered to provide land for a welcome center and parking.
+ Construction costs will be considerably cheaper than building along the frontage...no fence, no bridges etc...
+ The route uses public ROW along roads...no issues.
+ No issue connecting to the Weirs (connect via Hilliard Rd)...don't have to deal with the trestle underpass.
+ The trail would not be operating alongside an active railroad or contending with marinas or traffic crossing to the shore front.
+ The trail can be built even if Federal funding dries up (indications are that it probably will).
+ The environmental impact is minimized

In addition, it has been suggested that the Hobo railroad could be fitted with bike racks and connect segments without building along Paugus Bay (that was also rejected by the WOW Org.) Another viable option is to consider the trail from Severance Drive to the Weirs. This would make Tavern 27 an end point and the welcome center would be at the beginning of a trail segment.

SD/LB have reached out many times over a number of years to try to reach a viable solution that does not involve the frontage or crossing private property. The article miss-characterizes the history of the interaction.

Jetskier

[AC2717]

Originally Posted by jetskier

The engagement occurred when the attorney for SD/LB wanted to reach out one more time to see if a solution could be reached. This was an attempt to avoid litigation. He met with Alan Beetle; Alan proposed a route that crossed Laconia CC (private property and crossed across SD and village private property (and crossed through Outerbridge Drive). A source for Laconia CC indicated that they would not allow the trail on their private property (either).

The proposal from Baygo and SD is to route up Elm Street and across Rt 106. The trail could either go down Severance Drive or continue about 1.2 miles on Rt 106 where it could directly cut into the state forest. There was an engineering study done a while back proposing this as the best route. If the WOW org wants a copy, it can be supplied.

Advantages:

+ Baygo has offered to provide land for a welcome center and parking.
+ Construction costs will be considerably cheaper than building along the frontage...no fence, no bridges etc...
+ The route uses public ROW along roads...no issues.
+ No issue connecting to the Weirs (connect via Hilliard Rd)...don't have to deal with the trestle underpass.
+ The trail would not be operating alongside an active railroad or contending with marinas or traffic crossing to the shore front.
+ The trail can be built even if Federal funding dries up (indications are that it probably will).
+ The environmental impact is minimized

In addition, it has been suggested that the Hobo railroad could be fitted with bike racks and connect segments without building along Paugus Bay (that was also rejected by the WOW Org.) Another viable option is to consider the trail from Severance Drive to the Weirs. This would make Tavern 27 an end point and the welcome center would be at the beginning of a trail segment.

SD/LB have reached out many times over a number of years to try to reach a viable solution that does not involve the frontage or crossing private property. The article miss-characterizes the history of the interaction.

Jetskier

While I, if living there would like this alternative, I always like to point out the hypocrisy of these bike trails.

All this conservation land that cant be developed because of some who knows frog or beetle or worm, or some wildlife, and also abutting conservation land and you can't do this or that or anything in general. Yet in my town they blaze a bike path/trail right down the middle of conservation land and marsh water area with a bridge 12 feet wide and winding in and right down the marsh area atleast 400 feet long with signs, covered areas and bump outs to sit and giant pilings right into the marsh and everything, just like this alternative would blast right into a forest.

Again I think the path in my area is fine in that area, but funny how someone couldn't put a shed on their own property within 15 feet of the conservation land you abut because some soft shelled spotted turtle lives somewhere on the other side of the marsh land and may visit and be scared by your shed

[kjkam]

For those proposing Hilliard road as an option to connect to the Wiers, have you walked that road, any part of it, narrow, and some major hills, and not well maintained

No dog in this fight, but my guess is that the budget doesn't fit any way they run this trail, it always costs more than they plan....

[fatlazyless]

Via the proposed www.wowtrail.org, peddling a bicycle the 9-miles from the Laconia Public Library to the Meredith Public Library, all along the flat, easy to peddle Wow Trail could take maybe one or two hours to do it. One hour on a bicycle is probably doable for many people, plus the flat terrain of the railroad, waterfront right of way works good for bicycles.

Weirs Beach has a beach, and is located right in the middle of the 9-mile long Wow Trail, so that could be a good spot to park your bike and go hit the beach......seems like it's all very doable?

Once the Wow Trail gets built and is one year old, people will be saying ...... Like WOW! ....what a great trail!.....so, how come this wasn't built like 40-years ago ....how come it took so long to get it built........wow!

[kjkam]

The latest map I've seen looks like it will not follow the tracks all the way to the weirs, instead detour around pickrel and singing coves (i guess making use of Hilliard Road) Is that correct?

[thinkxingu]

An article on WOW Trail "ambassadors": http://www.laconiadailysun.com/commu...railambassdors

[feb]

Last week I decided to try this trail out. First impressions were great. The section from Laconia to Winnisquam was peaceful. You get some views of the lake but most is obstructed by trees which is fine. The section from Laconia to Lakeport was a little more dreary only because you have to use streets a little bit and also see more of the backs of business. Still it was nice to be able to ride that distance without worrying about car traffic.

I was surprised how much the trail was used. I passed several families walking and/or riding, some joggers, some retirees strolling along, some dog walkers and some bicyclists. All in all I'd say I passed about 30 people in the 2 times I used it. Unfortunately we did see a guy passed out at the picnic table at the Lakeport end but it is what it is.

Overall it was nice. If they ever get the section from Lakeport to Meredith built I believe it would be very popular. The total mileage of the current trail isn't much but its still something relaxing to do and burn a few calories.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by feb

Last week I decided to try this trail out. First impressions were great. The section from Laconia to Winnisquam was peaceful. You get some views of the lake but most is obstructed by trees which is fine. The section from Laconia to Lakeport was a little more dreary only because you have to use streets a little bit and also see more of the backs of business. Still it was nice to be able to ride that distance without worrying about car traffic.

I was surprised how much the trail was used. I passed several families walking and/or riding, some joggers, some retirees strolling along, some dog walkers and some bicyclists. All in all I'd say I passed about 30 people in the 2 times I used it. Unfortunately we did see a guy passed out at the picnic table at the Lakeport end but it is what it is.

Overall it was nice. If they ever get the section from Lakeport to Meredith built I believe it would be very popular. The total mileage of the current trail isn't much but its still something relaxing to do and burn a few calories.

He wasn't "passed out," he was relaxing "en plein air." Much classier!

[Paugus]

Looks like the State isn't biting on this lawsuit.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...suit-premature

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Paugus

Looks like the State isn't biting on this lawsuit.
http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx...suit-premature

Not the case....

The WOW Org has been saying that they would be filing plans by the fall for Phase III. Now they are saying that it might be 4 or 5 years before they file plans. That is what they told DOT. The litigation was filed based upon the view that the WOW Org would imminently be filing plans with the city - that is what they publicly said.

DOT had to respond to the SD/LB petition by 8/11/17 and they requested an extension of 30 days. SD/LB agreed to this extension. DOT's concern is whether the action is premature since now the WOW Org is saying that it is going to be years (a different story than a few months ago). So, fundamentally no action has been taken by either side. SD/LB have the right to proceed to court and DOT has the right to determine whether they want to settle this by not granting permission to the WOW Org. If the litigation is delayed, it is just that. It will be simply be put aside until things progress...if that is the decision. The basis of the litigation stands.

It is clear that the article in the Laconia Daily Sun was focusing on a position that there was a motion to dismiss and that is simply not the case. The litigation is currently still very much in effect. Of course SD/LB does not want to waste state resources if the WOW Org is 4 or 5 years away from filing plans.

Fundamentally, the route along the frontage does not make sense and the WOW Org would be well served to focus on one of the alternative routes that have been proposed. It would be less expensive, less intrusive and could be built more quickly than the route along the frontage. Tavern 27 has even offered land for a welcome center and parking.

Just my 2 cents.

Jetskier

[baygo]

Originally Posted by jeffk

WOW! (no pun intended) So the way to avoid your terrorist boulder placers is to adopt your plan? Moving boulders isn't a casual effort and should be detectable. How about we make every effort to find out who they are and throw them in jail and put their mugs on posters along the trail. "Look out for and report these thugs!".

To be clear, I really don't care if an alternative trail route is decided on. If all are happy about it, great. I applaud offering this alternative solution.

I REALLY DON'T like making decisions based on veiled threats and intimidation. Court fights are one thing. That is how society works out it's differences. Threatened boulders in the trail are a whole different thing. It's like walking into a discussion with a blatantly obvious weapon with the clear intention of intimidating the other people in the room. Cowering before criminals is NOT a good plan to deal with the situation. Talk about a WRONG message.

They are not my " terrorist boulder placers" nor am I insinuating any threat by me. There are close to 2,000 people living in SD/LB and it's a law of averages that there's at least one who would be very bitter if a lot of money was lost in a court battle and then the trail infringes (in his or her mind) on his life. Perhaps it's not boulders, perhaps he or she kept removing the fence. I really don't think it's realistic to rely on a neighbor notifying law enforcement that someone took down the fence that the neighbor didn't like in the first place.

This issue is just too confrontational and will cost/waste way too much money if it stays on its current course.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by baygo

They are not my " terrorist boulder placers" nor am I insinuating any threat by me. There are close to 2,000 people living in SD/LB and it's a law of averages that there's at least one who would be very bitter if a lot of money was lost in a court battle and then the trail infringes (in his or her mind) on his life. Perhaps it's not boulders, perhaps he or she kept removing the fence. I really don't think it's realistic to rely on a neighbor notifying law enforcement that someone took down the fence that the neighbor didn't like in the first place.

This issue is just too confrontational and will cost/waste way too much money if it stays on its current course.

Game Cam's or Trail Cam's are not expensive at all. Even LE uses them in certain situations. Especially Fish and Game. So let him or her continue. No need for a neighbor to notify law enforcement.

[joey2665]

"South Down and Long Bay position regarding the construction of the WOW Trail along the railroad right of way. In order to present a more factual representation we have created an informational website":

www.notthroughsdlb.com

Please note that this is their official stance on the Trail. I myself (a 10 year owner in SD then LB) do not agree with their position. Honestly whether you want the trail for various reasons or not, this site is complete propaganda. Crime and safety are and issue with out without the trail. It is just as easy to walk down or along the tracks than it is if you have the trail, the RR, beach access and boat clubs obviously there already so in my opinion there is no new issues that the trail creates are the criminal activity was there before the trail.

[Woodsy]

WOW.... its almost factual!

SD/LB already have public access thru their private community. The RR ROW is a snowmobile corridor trail used by the public... snowmobilers, hikers, etc....

just more NIMBY


Woodsy

[Major]

Crime is only one aspect of SD/LB position. I disagree with Joey. The WOW trail will create a defined avenue of egress, especially for a person riding a bike at night. I think it would be difficult to ride a bike along the side of the track at night in its present condition.

I know people who work (or worked ) for the Laconia police department. As I've stated in prior posts, publicly, they take a favorable position to the WOW trail. (I don't know why, but as witnessed by this forum, it is not very PC to be against it!) Privately, my source states that it is a defined avenue of egress for crime committed in Laconia and it is an attractive nuisance for crime, especially when committed at night. The WOW trail makes policing difficult.

I wouldn't focus on the crime aspect of the position. The environmental impact is a concern. Also, liability is perhaps the biggest concern. As stated previously, the WOW trail organizers are lobbying to have the Hobo railroad shut down. The owners of SD/LB already pay for this liability for its residents; however, any such policy would not apply to users of the WOW trail. Who is going to pay for it.

One thing I learned today is that the City of Laconia paid $400,000 for Phase II. As a taxpayer and resident, I am disappointed to hear this. The money could have been spent on more worthwhile things, like teacher raises. Or perhaps, a refund to the taxpayers, heaven forbid! Based on this contribution, I wonder what the City's obligation will be for Phase III?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

Crime is only one aspect of SD/LB position. I disagree with Joey. The WOW trail will create a defined avenue of egress, especially for a person riding a bike at night. I think it would be difficult to ride a bike along the side of the track at night in its present condition.

I know people who work (or worked ) for the Laconia police department. As I've stated in prior posts, publicly, they take a favorable position to the WOW trail. (I don't know why, but as witnessed by this forum, it is not very PC to be against it!) Privately, my source states that it is a defined avenue of egress for crime committed in Laconia and it is an attractive nuisance for crime, especially when committed at night. The WOW trail makes policing difficult.

I wouldn't focus on the crime aspect of the position. The environmental impact is a concern. Also, liability is perhaps the biggest concern. As stated previously, the WOW trail organizers are lobbying to have the Hobo railroad shut down. The owners of SD/LB already pay for this liability for its residents; however, any such policy would not apply to users of the WOW trail. Who is going to pay for it.

One thing I learned today is that the City of Laconia paid $400,000 for Phase II. As a taxpayer and resident, I am disappointed to hear this. The money could have been spent on more worthwhile things, like teacher raises. Or perhaps, a refund to the taxpayers, heaven forbid! Based on this contribution, I wonder what the City's obligation will be for Phase III?

Ride a bike, walk ect doesn't matter. I do not think crime is an issue either way as stated my home in LB was broken into and the walked down the tracks at night. My opinion change when I actually experienced the current trail for myself and found it quite enjoyable, I am the last person to be "PC". I also do not think liability is and issue as it is not much different than the current liability situation.

Were I absolutely agree with "Major" is, I do not think that phase III should be place on the shoulders of the tax payers. Private sponsorship, federal funding and donations should be used if not then I do not think phase III should be completed.

[Paugus]

I saw this on the WOW Trail Facebook page last week. Anyone know more about this?

"This week's #throwbackthursday is brought to you by South Down Shores & Long Bay developer John Davidson and the City of Laconia Planning Board circa 1986. "Mr. deHaven questioned if the bike path was public. Davidson explained that by a condition of the Planning Board that a bicycle path was required."

https://www.facebook.com/WOWTrail/po...55337886832071

[jetskier]

http://www.laconiadailysun.com/opini...hat-is-selfish

Jetskier

[Seaplane Pilot]

Playing the "safety" card!

[Major]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Playing the "safety" card!

It's a legitimate concern. During busy times, the forklift travels over the railroad tracks 200+ times a day. If the WOW trail is built, who has the right of way at the intersection of the WOW trail and the boat launch? If the forklift does, how does he stop in time when a bicyclist or a runner blows through the stop sign. Who's liable? Will the insurance obtained by the WOW trail and/or SD/LB protect them from liability?

[Seaplane Pilot]

Originally Posted by Major

It's a legitimate concern. During busy times, the forklift travels over the railroad tracks 200+ times a day. If the WOW trail is built, who has the right of way at the intersection of the WOW trail and the boat launch? If the forklift does, how does he stop in time when a bicyclist or a runner blows through the stop sign. Who's liable? Will the insurance obtained by the WOW trail and/or SD/LB protect them from liability?

Ok, so the WOW trail can build a pedestrian bridge across the ROW that the forklift uses. In fact, South Down should pay 1/2 of this cost (in my opinion). Problem solved.

[Major]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Ok, so the WOW trail can build a pedestrian bridge across the ROW that the forklift uses. In fact, South Down should pay 1/2 of this cost (in my opinion). Problem solved.

It would have to be quite a pedestrian walkway! Have you seen the forklift used to lift boats up to 26' long? The walkway would have to have a clearance of 15' or more. Anyway, the cost of such a walkway would be trivial compared to the engineering and construction costs involved in the areas near Lakeport Landing, Pickerel Cove, Perch Cove and the Weirs Beach bridge. I bet each section with be $1,000,000 or more.

[WakeboardMom]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Ok, so the WOW trail can build a pedestrian bridge across the ROW that the forklift uses. In fact, South Down should pay 1/2 of this cost (in my opinion). Problem solved.

Red herring. I live by Trexler's Marina, where on a Saturday morning, the forklift is back-and-forth across the street, folks are checking out of cottages on LI and the trailers in the park so there's that kind of traffic, plus runners, walkers and bikers are on the road, and there's no big issue. It's what constitutes "traffic" here at our lovely lake.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

Playing the "safety" card!

I agree the safety card is just a smoke screen. The forklift, people and the train manage to get around the SDBC everyday including the extremely busy holiday weekends without issue I have had my boat there for 10 years

[brk-lnt]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I agree the safety card is just a smoke screen. The forklift, people and the train manage to get around the SDBC everyday including the extremely busy holiday weekends without issue I have had my boat there for 10 years

The train is slow moving and very easy to see approaching. The people around the area on busy weekend also tend to be familiar with the marina, tracks, etc., and have a certain degree of situational awareness. If you build a trail that encourages people not familiar with the environment to pass through you statistically increase the risk of incidents due to decreased situational awareness. It is basically the same as the "out of town driver" problem in busy cities.

[Paugus]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The train is slow moving and very easy to see approaching. The people around the area on busy weekend also tend to be familiar with the marina, tracks, etc., and have a certain degree of situational awareness. If you build a trail that encourages people not familiar with the environment to pass through you statistically increase the risk of incidents due to decreased situational awareness. It is basically the same as the "out of town driver" problem in busy cities.

Would this apply? https://www.nhstateparks.org/about-u...-statutes.aspx

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The train is slow moving and very easy to see approaching. The people around the area on busy weekend also tend to be familiar with the marina, tracks, etc., and have a certain degree of situational awareness. If you build a trail that encourages people not familiar with the environment to pass through you statistically increase the risk of incidents due to decreased situational awareness. It is basically the same as the "out of town driver" problem in busy cities.

I completely disagree, people are not morons and many out the "out of towners" are used to running, jogging, biking ect of much busier city streets. The lift, much like the train is also slow moving.

There are other battles to fight if you do not want the trail, such (and most importantly that would effect the everyone in Laconia) is where the funding is coming from that are much more legitimate arguments. Which I am completely on board with, if funds are coming from the city directly or via higher property tax I am completely against it.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by brk-lnt

The train is slow moving and very easy to see approaching. The people around the area on busy weekend also tend to be familiar with the marina, tracks, etc., and have a certain degree of situational awareness. If you build a trail that encourages people not familiar with the environment to pass through you statistically increase the risk of incidents due to decreased situational awareness. It is basically the same as the "out of town driver" problem in busy cities.

Another reason to have OSHA visit the SD Boat Club. It sounds like a very dangerous operation for the residents of SD/LB. I would be willing to bet that situational awareness is an insufficient reason to operate the way it was described in the LDS letter.

This is a public safety concern after-all.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by joey2665

"South Down and Long Bay position regarding the construction of the WOW Trail along the railroad right of way. In order to present a more factual representation we have created an informational website":

www.notthroughsdlb.com

Please note that this is their official stance on the Trail. I myself (a 10 year owner in SD then LB) do not agree with their position. Honestly whether you want the trail for various reasons or not, this site is complete propaganda. Crime and safety are and issue with out without the trail. It is just as easy to walk down or along the tracks than it is if you have the trail, the RR, beach access and boat clubs obviously there already so in my opinion there is no new issues that the trail creates are the criminal activity was there before the trail.

Reprimanded by LBHOA for posting this link on the Winnipesaukee site. Guess I am not allow to have a different opinion from them. Thanks Jetskier!

Oh Well!!!!

[Just Sold]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Reprimanded by LBHOA for posting this link on the Winnipesaukee site. Guess I am not allow to have a different opinion from them. Thanks Jetskier!

Oh Well!!!!

Their web site domain is public and it is a free country to post it. Although they can restrict access to their site and to what the general public can see.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Just Sold

Their web site domain is public and it is a free country to post it. Although they can restrict access to their site and to what the general public can see.

I was told via e mail that the confidentiality is "implied".


I am sure if I agreed 100% with their position it would not have become an issue.

[baygo]

Originally Posted by jeffk

WOW! (no pun intended) So the way to avoid your terrorist boulder placers is to adopt your plan? Moving boulders isn't a casual effort and should be detectable. How about we make every effort to find out who they are and throw them in jail and put their mugs on posters along the trail. "Look out for and report these thugs!".

To be clear, I really don't care if an alternative trail route is decided on. If all are happy about it, great. I applaud offering this alternative solution.

I REALLY DON'T like making decisions based on veiled threats and intimidation. Court fights are one thing. That is how society works out it's differences. Threatened boulders in the trail are a whole different thing. It's like walking into a discussion with a blatantly obvious weapon with the clear intention of intimidating the other people in the room. Cowering before criminals is NOT a good plan to deal with the situation. Talk about a WRONG message.

They are not my " terrorist boulder placers" nor am I insinuating any threat by me. There are close to 2,000 people living in SD/LB and it's a law of averages that there's at least one who would be very bitter if a lot of money was lost in a court battle and then the trail infringes (in his or her mind) on their life. Perhaps it's not boulders, perhaps he or she kept removing the fence. I really don't think it's realistic to rely on a neighbor notifying law enforcement that someone took down the fence that the neighbor didn't like in the first place.

This issue is just too confrontational and will cost/waste way too much money if it stays on its current course. I wonder what would happen if we total up the money being conceited for legal cost and instead marked it to fund an alternative

[laketrout]

Originally Posted by baygo

I own and operate a restaurant that abuts the SD/LB community. My first summer the residents were coming by way of golf cart. Word of this spread by way of many channels and created additional interest in owning a home there. I'm approved by the city to offer groceries as well. Just as I was about to per sue that someone decided to start putting obstacles in the way of the golf carts. I dropped my interest in groceries.

I wouldn't be surprised by it if the trail gets built and bikers encounter big rocks placed on the trail. I think the trail organizers seriously need to consider this in their maintenance and upkeep projections.

Its all Liability insurance Ray. Your place is awesome (Groceries and cold beverages even bags of ice- that would be great), and even better in my golf cart. The one condo closest to you in the SDS development shut it down and put the rock in front of the fence, at least thats what I heard.