The Dive?

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

If you are of the opinion that it should not have been permitted there would need to be a valid legal reason to deny them. I don't want to see them on my favorite sandbar or anchored in front of my house is not sufficient reason to stop them from their business venture.

If they did get denied in the future for the renewal of any of the necessary food, alcohol, or other permits they could point to the Mt Washington and claim they were doing the same thing (selling food and alcohol) but in a different manner. That might give them significant legal grounds to stand up to any challenge.

If it is a financial success, and that remains to be seen, it will take violations of regulations or other significant complaints with a legal basis to stop them from continuing to do business. Otherwise it is here to stay.

Only time will tell.

I'm just siding with the people that own waterfront property and have to look out at this all day and night. I don't own waterfront on Winni so it doesn't effect me but I can understand their frustration.
If it's moved around the lake on a rotating basis then that might ease a lot of the backlash.
Everyone is worried about the investment these business owners have made but what about the investment that these home owners have in their property? I think there should have been more oversight on the building of this vessel before it was issued permits.
Like I said, I have no dog in this fight, thank god!. I'm just giving my opinion.
Businesses rise an fail all the time. It's a gamble so time will tell if this gamble survives.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I'm just siding with the people that own waterfront property and have to look out at this all day and night. I don't own waterfront on Winni so it doesn't effect me but I can understand their frustration.
If it's moved around the lake on a rotating basis then that might ease a lot of the backlash.
Everyone is worried about the investment these business owners have made but what about the investment that these home owners have in their property? I think there should have been more oversight on the building of this vessel before it was issued permits.
Like I said, I have no dog in this fight, thank god!. I'm just giving my opinion.
Businesses rise an fail all the time. It's a gamble so time will tell if this gamble survives.

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it. Again, this forum and society now has to have something to complain about. Why stir the pot if there is no vested interest or no hard complaints. Nobody can just be happy with this something new cool and exciting that most genuinely appreciate.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it. Again, this forum and society now has to have something to complain about. Why stir the pot if there is no vested interest or no hard complaints. Nobody can just be happy with this something new cool and exciting that most genuinely appreciate.

Why should everyone just be happy with it? How do you know it's "genuinely appreciated"? Did you take a survey of the people using this service or did you take a survey of everyone on the lake? Or do you just count the ya's and na's on the forum?
I guess we really won't know until it get's through the summer and see where it stands next season.
Anyways, this is what public forums are for. If you don't like other peoples opinions then you shouldn't visit them. There are always going to be people for and against.

[Momo]

Eye sore, NIMBY, taxes aside.... what about a business permitted by the State of NH that advertises “Day-Drinking” for boaters? (See links below from their own website). Is their promotional item as well as their post which references “Day-Drinking” good for Lake Winnipesaukee (not Just waterfront homeowners)?
I am hardly a tee-totaler and enjoy many of our local establishments - none of which blantently promote drinking and boating. Some may say TIC “at least The Dive is only promoting Day-Drinking and not promoting Night-Drinking”, but there is no humor in this. Just ask anyone who has been injured or lost a loved one due to alcohol related boating accidents.

[Seaplane Pilot]

I shall name it: "WINNFABAFBPIFOMP"

Winnipesaukee
Farts
Against
Big
Ass
Food
Barges
Parked
In
Front
Of
My
Property

Our motto will be: "Chinese School Has Just Begun, No More Laughing, No More Fun..."

If this concept sounds pathetic, that's because it is!

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Why should everyone just be happy with it? How do you know it's "genuinely appreciated"? Did you take a survey of the people using this service or did you take a survey of everyone on the lake? Or do you just count the ya's and na's on the forum?
I guess we really won't know until it get's through the summer and see where it stands next season.
Anyways, this is what public forums are for. If you don't like other peoples opinions then you shouldn't visit them. There are always going to be people for and against.

You missed the point. There are numerous people against this for a reason that (1) doesn't affect them and (2) think it affects someone else even though there are no legitimate waterfront stakeholders voicing concern.

Based on initial reviews/updates here and on facebook, this business appears to be off to a successful start yet there seems to be a group here that is offended by such due to it being an "eye sore."

If it's remitting oil in the lake, I think that's a legitimate concern. Being out late without a sanctioned event, sure, legitimate concern. Promoting "day drinking" - let's be honest, I'll bet a good majority of the lake enjoys a few drinks while out on the lake and many boats have at least a handful of folks in the boat. That doesn't mean each boat doesn't have a designated captain (even though we'd like to hope it's the case). Again, just another empty complaint.

[Biggd]

Good luck to all the home owners that have to deal with it. They just have to suck it up because "they don't own the lake". This is one of the reasons you rarely see homes go up for sale on Squam Lake.

[Merrymeeting]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Good luck to all the home owners that have to deal with it. They just have to suck it up because "they don't own the lake". This is one of the reasons you rarely see homes go up for sale on Squam Lake.

Can you explain this one? Squam is state property too. Not sure I get your point.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Merrymeeting

Can you explain this one? Squam is state property too. Not sure I get your point.

Home owners don't own the lake but it's protect from any commercial endeavor. You have to go through the river to Little Squam to get gas, food, or boat repairs and it will always be that way. It's too late for Winni. Once the genie is out of the bottle you can't put him back in.
Like it or not the Dive is setting a precedent that will open up more ventures of like kind. I'm not an environmentalist but I do believe in protecting out natural resources for future generations. It can't always be about the all mighty dollar.

[SIKSUKR]

I would bet that if the Dive looked more like your average boating vessel and not the tall boxy structure it is, there would be a lot less opposition. I actually wondered when they were building it why the need to go so high. fwiw The Willy T in the BVI's is actually going through a similar situation. The last big hurricane destroyed it and the owner bought a new one but the gov. wont let them back in the cove they anchored in for so long because of new development in what was barren shoreline. I believe they have found a new spot.

[chasedawg]

Originally Posted by SIKSUKR

I would bet that if the Dive looked more like your average boating vessel and not the tall boxy structure it is, there would be a lot less opposition. I actually wondered when they were building it why the need to go so high. fwiw The Willy T in the BVI's is actually going through a similar situation. The last big hurricane destroyed it and the owner bought a new one but the gov. wont let them back in the cove they anchored in for so long because of new development in what was barren shoreline. I believe they have found a new spot.

That's the old Willy T. It is now moored on Cooper Island.

Now back to the Dive.....

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

This is the problem though, we have people with no interest complaining because they're "sympathetic" to homeowners of which we don't even know if they're bothered by it.

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

There are people out there that don't like laws and don't like rules. They think everyone should be able to do what ever they want when ever they want without restrictions. Isn't that why everyone comes to NH, "live free or die"? Well in a perfect world where everyone was nice and respectful of others that would work. But we all know there is no such thing as a perfect world.

[Woodsy]

The amount of NIMBY that is posted is just crazy!

I don't recall any houses along the shoreline of the West Alton Sandbar.... (1 house down at the far eastern end of the cove). I was under the impression that the waterfront there is owned by the West Alton Marina... So if the marina isn't bitching... why do you care?



Woodsy

[noreast]

If you're asking me, I really don't care. This is a theoretical argument at this point since I don't think it's going to park there all the time. I just respond when people make ignorant comments. Nothing wrong with a good argument.

[fatlazyless]

Say ..... the photos above of the Willy T come from the British Virgin Islands and the Willie T got badly damaged by a hurricane or two, last September, 2017. It has been rebuilt, but the new Willy T has been reborn without the sailing masts and now looks more like a motor yacht than a sailing yacht.


Here's an article from the Press Herald newspaper in Maine: August, 2014; https://www.pressherald.com/2014/08/...loating-feast/ ... (13-photos) ...... about a one women lunch boat business in a classic 20' open Maine motor launch that she putt-putts around and about Penobscot Bay. Someone could duplicate that business here on Lake Winnipesaukee and maybe do business in the same sand bar area at the entrance to West Alton Marina as The Dive. Competition is what makes America great ..... someone once said! ...... no, on second thought ..... this will never-ever happen ...... Lake Winnipesaukee is a long, long, long way from Penobscot Bay, over in Maine.

So, who knows, but maybe if this floating restaurant-bar barge, The Dive, were to install a sail mast with a big colorful sail high atop the barge structure ...... it could dress itself up with a more nautical look ....... maybe a huge yellow and orange striped main sail or something to create that sail boat look from afar .....down the lake ... to make it look more like a boat ..... and less like a floating fast food, restaurant-bar that remains in one spot all the time ...... The Dive.

It needs a big sail .....yeah ..... that's what it needs to make it look more like a boat ...... it needs a sail!

And, it would be appreciated and revered as a long time Lake Winnipesaukee icon ......... forever after ..... definitely ........ ugh!

[noreast]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

Exactly, And the argument that it only effects a few people so others shouldn't speak up is just stupid and anti social. Why speak up to help out friends and neighbors (or strangers for that matter) because it doesn't effect you.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by noreast

Exactly, And the argument that it only effects a few people so others shouldn't speak up is just stupid and anti social. Why speak up to help out friends and neighbors (or strangers for that matter) because it doesn't effect you.

Where are the known people negatively affected that have personally stated they are affected? Everyone here is a trying to solve a "problem" that doesn't exist yet...again, nothing but negative people who have nothing better to do but complain.

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

You keep asking for it both ways:

If it was in my back yard, I'd be a NIMBYer. But if it's not in my back yard I have no right to voice my opinion. So apparently it's never OK to speak up.

This is similar to the post that said homeowners should have made a law beforehand combined with your opinion that we have too many rules.

You ask for people to lighten up, but your posts leave no room for compromise.

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this? That is the point I'm making. Give it a chance - people are more focused on how to take this business down than figuring out how to appreciate something that may add value to others.

[iw8surf]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this? That is the point I'm making. Give it a chance - people are more focused on how to take this business down than figuring out how to appreciate something that may add value to others.

My only qualm is they need to set a schedule and stick with it. I think having a plan a week out or so will allow people to plan and actually set a way of going there and enjoying it. Following their facebook group there is a lot of back and forth of "we thought we'd be out at this time but we were late" etc. I like the concept if it all works smoothly, I have seen similar things be successful on other lakes out west and down south.

[Woodsy]

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

Careful what you say! They're all entitled to their opinion no matter what and will do whatever to take down this business and feel compassionate for landowners that aren't bothered.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Woodsy

This conversation is becoming circular, but I'd be really upset to show up to White Lake State Park (or insert any other park you like) to find a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee in the parking lot or, even worse, at the summit.

In fact, I believe a proposal for a Mount Washington summit hotel is in this very process.

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[Woodsy]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

This conversation is becoming circular, but I'd be really upset to show up to White Lake State Park (or insert any other park you like) to find a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee in the parking lot or, even worse, at the summit.

In fact, I believe a proposal for a Mount Washington summit hotel is in this very process.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

I have no problem with anyone in "a noisy, cumbersome, flashy-lights hot dog Humvee" selling hot dogs or drinks in a parking lot of a State Park.... it boils down to supply & demand.If there is a demand for this product (The Dive) then it will thrive... if not, oh well... you win some lose some.

But all of this NIMBY stuff is crazy.... lots of people utilize the resources of the lake to make $$$.

Woodsy

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

Where is a WAAMBULANCE?

I am sure their original business model does not include just sitting in Smalls Cove all day selling drinks and burgers.... there is most certainly not enough business there to support the cost of the operation... especially after the initial curiosity wears off. Nor is there anywhere near the amount of parking space given its a "No Rafting" zone.

Most likely they want to work out the bugs before going all over. Also, I think they have the proper food/liquor permits for Alton, and the other towns on the lake haven't signed off yet.

That being said.... I have no sympathy at all for waterfront property owners who bought property on the borders of what is essentially a State Park.... then whine and complain about the people enjoying the park!

Some "poor" person on Sleepers Is is indignant because their view of people rafting and partying in Smalls Cove has been ruined by a party barge in Smalls Cove? Really? That's your argument?

Woodsy

"before going all over?" So it was established that the most likely locations are sandbars so patrons can walk to it and there is a larger concentration of patrons. So that leaves Smalls Cove, Braun Bay and Margate sandbar. It has also been established that the Margate sandbar is not possible due to bridge and beam of the Dive. So that leaves Braun Bay. By their own accounts the dive is doing well at Smalls so why would you spend the time and gas money to travel to Braun Bay? So I ask again, where else are they going to go?

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Taz

"before going all over?" So it was established that the most likely locations are sandbars so patrons can walk to it and there is a larger concentration of patrons. So that leaves Smalls Cove, Braun Bay and Margate sandbar. It has also been established that the Margate sandbar is not possible due to bridge and beam of the Dive. So that leaves Braun Bay. By their own accounts the dive is doing well at Smalls so why would you spend the time and gas money to travel to Braun Bay? So I ask again, where else are they going to go?

Anywhere on the lake. Until you out of staters pass legislation saying otherwise...

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Anywhere on the lake. Until you out of staters pass legislation saying otherwise...

Anywhere on the lake is not a money maker, only a large sandbar will work and i'm not an out of stater.

[Outdoorsman]

Originally Posted by Taz

Anywhere on the lake is not a money maker, only a large sandbar will work and i'm not an out of stater.

Only a large sand bar will work? Please post your study that concludes that only a sandbar will work.

I am sure that it can dock anywhere that the MT. Washington can dock.... Sell some booze and a burger to the visiting tourists and move along....


BTW, who established that sandbars are the locations? You are the only one that has suggested so, that I have seen.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Only a large sand bar will work? Please post your study that concludes that only a sandbar will work.

I am sure that it can dock anywhere that the MT. Washington can dock.... Sell some booze and a burger to the visiting tourists and move along....


BTW, who established that sandbars are the locations? You are the only one that has suggested so, that I have seen.

You think the Dive is going to dock? Where will it dock?
The Dive can't dock where the MT Washington docks. Only the Mt can dock in Alton, Weirs, Wolfeboro and Meredith, those docks are for the Mt only. You are the only one that has suggested the Dive is going to dock. What other places will the Dive frequent that are not sandbars. If it anchors in deep water you will swim to it? Sandbars work because there is a large concentration of potential patrons that can walk to the Dive.

[Rusty]

Some immature banter going on here, time to give this thread a time out.

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Biggd

This must be the old Hippy crowd from the 60's.

Why would anybody risk their one-and-only mind or body?

Originally Posted by Rusty

Some immature banter going on here, time to give this thread a time out.

So, I'm handed a form at a doctor's appointment...

▢ Muscle/Joint Pain?

▢ Blurred Vision?

▢ Smoker?

▢ Chest Pains?

▢ Weight gain/loss?

▢ Sleeping Difficulty?

☑ Cancer history among Family Members?

▢ Breathing Difficulties?

▢ Headaches?

▢ Allergies?

But I'm usually fairly cool until the physician's checklist requests:

▢ Substance Use?

.

[VitaBene]

Originally Posted by ApS

Why would anybody risk their one-and-only mind or body?



So, I'm handed a form at a doctor's appointment...

▢ Muscle/Joint Pain?

▢ Blurred Vision?

▢ Smoker?

▢ Chest Pains?

▢ Weight gain/loss?

▢ Sleeping Difficulty?

☑ Cancer history among Family Members?

▢ Breathing Difficulties?

▢ Headaches?

▢ Allergies?

But I'm usually fairly cool until the physician's checklist requests:

▢ Substance Use?

.

I think everyone is painfully aware that you are a fun sponge.

[Newbiesaukee]

Although medical checklists are very convenient in this electronic records age; as a retired physician, I can attest to the fact that patients most frequently lie about substance abuse and sexual history. If the physician really wants to know, she /he must SPEAK with the patient. What a concept!

Back to the “Dive.”

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by ApS

Why would anybody risk their one-and-only mind or body?



So, I'm handed a form at a doctor's appointment...

▢ Muscle/Joint Pain?

▢ Blurred Vision?

▢ Smoker?

▢ Chest Pains?

▢ Weight gain/loss?

▢ Sleeping Difficulty?

☑ Cancer history among Family Members?

▢ Breathing Difficulties?

▢ Headaches?

▢ Allergies?

But I'm usually fairly cool until the physician's checklist requests:

▢ Substance Use?

.

We're just funnin! No one on here actually toukes the weed.

[erick26]

Originally Posted by Taz

You think the Dive is going to dock? Where will it dock?

The Dive can't dock where the MT Washington docks. Only the Mt can dock in Alton, Weirs, Wolfeboro and Meredith, those docks are for the Mt only. You are the only one that has suggested the Dive is going to dock. What other places will the Dive frequent that are not sandbars. If it anchors in deep water you will swim to it? Sandbars work because there is a large concentration of potential patrons that can walk to the Dive.

Anchor in deep water and have a jetski shuttle service - pickup to hang on Dive or deliver food like a drive in !


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[Taz]

Originally Posted by Outdoorsman

Only a large sand bar will work? Please post your study that concludes that only a sandbar will work.

I am sure that it can dock anywhere that the MT. Washington can dock.... Sell some booze and a burger to the visiting tourists and move along....


BTW, who established that sandbars are the locations? You are the only one that has suggested so, that I have seen.

Who established that sandbars are the location? The Dive did. Read the first post at the beginning of this thread. 1. In the Dive statement describing their business states they will serve sandbars.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Taz

Who established that sandbars are the location? The Dive did. Read the first post at the beginning of this thread. 1. In the Dive statement describing their business states they will serve sandbars.

The water at those sand bars is going to be bright yellow. They will look like a leman drop from the sky. Not that they aren't yellow already. It will just be a little brighter where ever the Dive is anchored.

[erick26]

Originally Posted by Biggd

The water at those sand bars is going to be bright yellow. They will look like a leman drop from the sky. Not that they aren't yellow already. It will just be a little brighter where ever the Dive is anchored.

Or we can be thankful the Dive has bathrooms and it solves the pee bay problem


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[Momo]

The WinniBelle just went by Sleepers with a party. Music playing and people having a good time. We love the WinniBelle and the Mount as well as seeing - and hearing- people have fun on the lake. It looked
like even they veered by the tenement house anchored in Smalls Cove - probably out of curiosity and happy they are on the WinniBelle

[winni83]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this? That is the point I'm making. Give it a chance - people are more focused on how to take this business down than figuring out how to appreciate something that may add value to others.

Quite simple really. As has been often emphasized, the Lake, at least up to shoreline and subject to riparian and littoral rights, is owned by the State of New Hampshire for the use and benefit of its residents. So eventhough it may not be in my, or other posters’ backyard, I and they have every right to comment and express an opinion on the operation of The Dive, whether positive or negative.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by winni83

Quite simple really. As has been often emphasized, the Lake, at least up to shoreline and subject to riparian and littoral rights, is owned by the State of New Hampshire for the use and benefit of its residents. So eventhough it may not be in my, or other posters’ backyard, I and they have every right to comment and express an opinion on the operation of The Dive, whether positive or negative.

Exactly, especially when said business is profiting off of NH's resources.

It was mentioned above that the water surrounding The Dive was oily--has anyone heard or experienced this anywhere else?

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[Cal Coon]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Exactly, especially when said business is profiting off of NH's resources.

It was mentioned above that the water surrounding The Dive was oily--has anyone heard or experienced this anywhere else?

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Someone is probably "planting" the oil around the Dive to help it succeed in failing! Just a hunch from all the love they must be feeling from this forum... FWIW, those of you that claim the Dive is an "eyesore", need to take a ride to the bowels of any city within 10 miles of Boston, or even some parts of Manchester, NH or Lawrence, Ma., and then tell me the Dive is an eyesore. Sometimes we ALL need a wakeup call. Careful what you wish for... So based on the "eyesore" logic here, someone that has a view of a tiny three season cottage that "needs work" can complain to the "powers that be" till the owner updates, or sells the "shack" that has been in the family for generations, and is loved "as is"... Is that where we are going here?? What about ugly boats, can we complain till there are no more ugly boats on the lake too??? I hate ugly boats. How about just plain old ugly, can we just get rid of all things ugly?? I don't want to see ugly. Where does it end...???

[Shreddy]

Originally Posted by winni83

Quite simple really. As has been often emphasized, the Lake, at least up to shoreline and subject to riparian and littoral rights, is owned by the State of New Hampshire for the use and benefit of its residents. So eventhough it may not be in my, or other posters’ backyard, I and they have every right to comment and express an opinion on the operation of The Dive, whether positive or negative.

Alright - points taken, I guess I'm the minority here then. Back to figuring out how to destroy this business.

[P-3 Guy]

Originally Posted by Shreddy

Why do you need to voice your opinion if it doesn't affect you because it isn't in your back yard and there are no known people negatively affected by this?

You have mentioned this several times. I guess you missed the posts in this thread from at least two property owners who have a view of this business in operation and have expressed opinions that aren't exactly complimentary.