The Dive?

[Taz]

Originally Posted by Taz

Say the Dive was going to Braun Bay. How long would it take to go from WAM to Braun? It seems like it would be awful slow and maybe not feasible to go that far. There are not many areas it could go to be profitable. I think 3, Braun, Smalls, Margate sand bars and Braun, Margate maybe not feasible to go to, take too long to get there and back, also not sure how it would handle a rough water day were it to travel. Smalls maybe its only feasible option.

My original suspicions have now been confirmed. A Facebook post from the Dive Facebook page posted on I Boat on Lake Winnipesaukee (IBOLW) confirmed that Dive owners have told WAM members that the Dive is so underpowered it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept. Because of this it will not be moving from Smalls anytime soon.

I also agree with Phantom. I do not see the Dive surviving. Unless they can do enough charters, private functions to supplement the sandbar days and that is if they can repower it as it can not get out of its own way now. Season is too short. I don't think there will be enough customers to brave the cold water to walk to the Dive early and late season. That leaves July and August and maybe a weekend or 2 in September but even then many people stop coming to the lake after Labor Day.

There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc. Home owners have been calling marine patrol to complain and marine patrol has responded with much more ticketing at Smalls than ever before.

I did give it a try myself. The server Naomi was very good, the staff very attentive. However, the drinks were average in quality, size and above average in price. The food no better than any other establishment at any of the town docks. I agree with others its a "novelty" and I would not go back when I have my own boat, can serve my own cold beer and cocktails on my own boat, serve my own BBQ food on my own boat for much less money and go somewhere much quieter to do it.

I wish them well and hope I am wrong but at this time they have a lot issues to resolve to make it work.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Taz

………... it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept.


There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc.
.

The one thought we came up with is that the owners work a deal with both WAM & Watermark in Paugus Bay. If they could secure dockage rights at Watermark then on a Monday (during the day & typically the slowest of days during the week) they could transit to Paugus and be operational at the Margate the next day. Then reverse the scenario the following week. Just a thought !



To your other comment about MP -- the Day we went, just as the Dive got firmly settled and in place, to my laughter, a MP patrol boat showed up --- I will give them KUDO's for all he did was (verbally) push people out of the shoreline 150' spacing and was gone for the rest of the day ……………….. my personal opinion is that a few people make a real loud noise about MP "picking" on them & ticketing -- most times we have observed this season is always simply a verbal. After all - the law is the Law and it is pretty well marked with buoys. if no room -- come earlier!



Again -- I like the Dive -- wish them well and hope to take many a visiting guest there for a kick for an hour (on their dime hopefully) !

[ApS]

Originally Posted by Taz

My original suspicions have now been confirmed. A Facebook post from the Dive Facebook page posted on I Boat on Lake Winnipesaukee (IBOLW) confirmed that Dive owners have told WAM members that the Dive is so underpowered it will take 3 hrs to get to any other sandbar and it was not suppose to be kept at WAM. Not sure where else it would be kept. Because of this it will not be moving from Smalls anytime soon. I also agree with Phantom. I do not see the Dive surviving. Unless they can do enough charters, private functions to supplement the sandbar days and that is if they can repower it as it can not get out of its own way now. Season is too short. I don't think there will be enough customers to brave the cold water to walk to the Dive early and late season. That leaves July and August and maybe a weekend or 2 in September but even then many people stop coming to the lake after Labor Day. There has also been a lot of banter on IBOLW regarding the marine patrol ticketing many patrons because of there being more boats at Smalls so boats are anchored too close to shore in a NRZ, too many boats tied together etc. Home owners have been calling marine patrol to complain and marine patrol has responded with much more ticketing at Smalls than ever before. I did give it a try myself. The server Naomi was very good, the staff very attentive. However, the drinks were average in quality, size and above average in price. The food no better than any other establishment at any of the town docks. I agree with others its a "novelty" and I would not go back when I have my own boat, can serve my own cold beer and cocktails on my own boat, serve my own BBQ food on my own boat for much less money and go somewhere much quieter to do it. I wish them well and hope I am wrong but at this time they have a lot issues to resolve to make it work.

I failed to recall what power unit they had, but a work barge came by with a big bow wave.

"The Dive" should look into this one!

[fatlazyless]

With so many guests on-board, why not just ask for volunteers to paddle using long sup style paddles ...... like .....helloooooo everybody ...... we can use a little help here getting our barge from our West Alton home all the way down to that Center Harbor Inn ...... paddl'n is so much great exercise .... a real workout ..... look'n for volunteers here ...... we can use a little help ......who wants to just give paddl'n a wee bit of a go? ..... don't-a be a-bashful ..... paddl'n is so much fun ..... the crew that paddles together ..... drinks together

With so many guests on-board ..... is a great source of free paddl'n labor ....... stroke-stroke-stroke!


Will paddle for beer .....anyone?


In 2009, the MS Mount Washington was able to re-power their 1940's diesel that went wush-wush-wush with a $750,000 Caterpillar diesel that goes bzzzzzzz ...... and got it basically for free courtesy of the Cash for Clunkers federal program ....... so's maybe The Dive can do the same ..... and get a John Deere, made in Moline, Illinois, make america great again, marine diesel courtesy the federal government ....... yes? ...... for almost free?

In the mean time ...... a-just a-keep on paddl'n ....... to the tune of Michael row the boat ashore ...... hallelujuh ...... Sister, help to trim the sails ..... hallelujuh ..... we need more paddlers ... so much fun ..... who wants to paddle? ...... The Dive .... one, great big stand up paddle board, 62' x 24' ..... all together now .....just paddle! ...... how much further till we get there?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

With so many guests on-board, why not just ask for volunteers to paddle using long sup style paddles ...... like .....helloooooo everybody ...... we can use a little help here getting our barge from our West Alton home all the way down to that Center Harbor Inn ...... paddl'n is so much great exercise .... a real workout ..... look'n for volunteers here ...... we can use a little help ......who wants to just give paddl'n a wee bit of a go? ..... don't-a be a-bashful ..... paddl'n is so much fun ..... the crew that paddles together ..... drinks together

With so many guests on-board ..... is a great source of free paddl'n labor ....... stroke-stroke-stroke!


Will paddle for beer .....anyone?


In 2009, the MS Mount Washington was able to re-power their 1940's diesel that went wush-wush-wush with a $750,000 Caterpillar diesel that goes bzzzzzzz ...... and got it basically for free courtesy of the Cash for Clunkers federal program ....... so's maybe The Dive can do the same ..... and get a John Deere, made in Moline, Illinois, make america great again, marine diesel courtesy the federal government ....... yes? ...... for almost free?

In the mean time ...... a-just a-keep on paddl'n ....... to the tune of Michael row the boat ashore ...... hallelujuh ...... Sister, help to trim the sails ..... hallelujuh ..... we need more paddlers ... so much fun ..... who wants to paddle? ...... The Dive .... one, great big stand up paddle board, 62' x 24' ..... all together now .....just paddle! ...... how much further till we get there?

You are a navel engineering genius.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

You are a navel engineering genius.

.....you are so totally, totally, totally correct ...... absolutely, positively, absolutely!

And, besides getting about ten long handled paddles for any guests who want to volunteer to paddle ...... The Dive could go purchase an el cheapo ..... mast, boom and sail .... from craigslist-nh ..... size: extra large ..... and put that wind to work for them ..... after all .....the wind is free ........ SAIL HO...... arrgghh! ..... sailing three sheets to the windward seems like a good course for The Dive!

Having a sail could be a good new energy source for moving their business along. Who knows ..... maybe a bright red sail would really look good, sailing down the lake, as the sun sinks slowly into the west ...... ker-plunk ..... splash ..... seems to happen every day?

The Dive, needing more powerful engines than what it had, decided to add a large mast, boom and sail in an effort to capture the wind. Little did they know that raising a large, bright red, triangular sail, high above their barge would serve like a big, red advertising banner, and go a long way for powering up their business ....... SALES HO .....oops .... make that SAILS HO .....and off they sailed, up and down the big lake, happily powered by a big, bright red sail .....

THE DIVE; not just a $12-beer on a barge-restaurant ....... it's a power-paddle-sail adventure ..... to get it there ......and back ...... yo-heave-ho .... now, shut up and paddle!

[ursa minor]

This isn't a situation where the Dive is "underpowered" so much as how the power gets to the water and some basic principles of naval architecture. Also, note that even with double the power (it has 2, 300 HP Evinrude outboards now) it really wouldn't make a huge difference in speed.

As a displacement vessel, the length of the waterline dictates what the maximum practical speed will be, increasing the power above whatever is calculated to be required to produce "hull speed" will only increase the top speed a small amount even with a significant increase in power.

As has been noted in an earlier post, Diversified Contracting has a similar sized barge with twin 250 HP outboards. I've watched it go by our place many times, the operator runs those engines HARD and even with that I'd guess top speed is between 10 - 12 mph. It sounds to my ear as if the propellers cavitate a fair amount while doing so. Using Diversified's barge as an example, it looks like the Dive is similar in length and has roughly the same power so top speed would be in the same general range of 10-12 mph.

If they're not getting to 10 mph or so, I'm guessing part of the problem could be getting the propellers to convert the power available into actual thrust. The barge that APS referenced looks like it's powered by a pusher tug. If so, that likely has a diesel engine turning a much larger diameter and slower turning propeller that can get a better bite on the water to push the barge. Tough do that with engines designed for pleasure boats that turn small diameter propellers at high speed.

[JADAQ]

Originally Posted by ursa minor

This isn't a situation where the Dive is "underpowered" so much as how the power gets to the water and some basic principles of naval architecture. Also, note that even with double the power (it has 2, 300 HP Evinrude outboards now) it really wouldn't make a huge difference in speed.

As a displacement vessel, the length of the waterline dictates what the maximum practical speed will be, increasing the power above whatever is calculated to be required to produce "hull speed" will only increase the top speed a small amount even with a significant increase in power.

As has been noted in an earlier post, Diversified Contracting has a similar sized barge with twin 250 HP outboards. I've watched it go by our place many times, the operator runs those engines HARD and even with that I'd guess top speed is between 10 - 12 mph. It sounds to my ear as if the propellers cavitate a fair amount while doing so. Using Diversified's barge as an example, it looks like the Dive is similar in length and has roughly the same power so top speed would be in the same general range of 10-12 mph.

If they're not getting to 10 mph or so, I'm guessing part of the problem could be getting the propellers to convert the power available into actual thrust. The barge that APS referenced looks like it's powered by a pusher tug. If so, that likely has a diesel engine turning a much larger diameter and slower turning propeller that can get a better bite on the water to push the barge. Tough do that with engines designed for pleasure boats that turn small diameter propellers at high speed.

I believe they are twin “250” Evinrudes

[ursa minor]

Originally Posted by JADAQ

I believe they are twin “250” Evinrudes

My bad, I just went back to page 1, you are correct. Twin 250's as seen in the pictures. The point of my long winded post above is still the same though; whether 500 HP (as is), 600 HP(as I mistakenly mentioned above) or even adding a third engine to get up to some greater multiple of the above will not significantly increase the maximum speed of this vessel above it's hull speed.

Assuming a water line length of 70 feet (guestimate from looking at the construction photos) hull speed would calculate to 11.2 MPH (square root of the length at waterline X 1.34) Does anyone know if they tapered the front in any way as opposed to a square / flat entry (like the sides and stern), that would be a problem. I haven't seen it up close enough to be able to see that, most barges have a slope at the bow.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

THE DIVE; not just a $12-beer on a barge-restaurant ....... it's a power-paddle-sail adventure ..... to get it there ......and back ...... yo-heave-ho .... now, shut up and paddle!

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

Something went wrong with this video so I deleted the embed code.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

….yes, something like that ….. men, woman, kids, grandma, grandpa, all together rowing The Dive …… rowing is actually fun, fun, fun ….. especially when there's a Guinness a-waiting for you, up-top

….. beats the heck out of just sitting there, sipping a beer, and watching the shoreline homes unroll


….. all together now ….. let's all row in three part harmony …. and longer oars that are pinned are actually easier to row with better results …. no feathering needed! So, it is stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke as opposed to stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather...… capiche!


….those slaves in the video here ….. are they feathering? …. no …. and, it's working very very well for them! Is hard to tell, but most likely their oars have been pinned, or held by a pin in the oar lock, in one position for easier rowing. So, who wants to row hard for 40-minutes for a Guinness?
…….

So, what's the real price tag for the two Evinrude 300-hp outboards like they have ….. as opposed to finding a decent used marine diesel that turns a longer, wider propeller at a slower speed with a better bite?

Is the real price tag …… their going out of business and closing The Dive ….. stay tuned ….. is a lot easier to paddle a paddle?

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

….yes, something like that ….. men, woman, kids, grandma, grandpa, all together rowing The Dive …… rowing is actually fun, fun, fun ….. especially when there's a Guinness a-waiting for you, up-top

….. beats the heck out of just sitting there, sipping a beer, and watching the shoreline homes unroll


….. all together now ….. let's all row in three part harmony …. and longer oars that are pinned are actually easier to row with better results …. no feathering needed! So, it is stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke-stroke as opposed to stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather-stroke-feather...… capiche!


….those slaves in the video here ….. are they feathering? …. no …. and, it's working very very well for them! Is hard to tell, but most likely their oars have been pinned, or held by a pin in the oar lock, in one position for easier rowing. So, who wants to row hard for 40-minutes for a Guinness?
…….

So, what's the real price tag for the two Evinrude 300-hp outboards like they have ….. as opposed to finding a decent used marine diesel that turns a longer, wider propeller at a slower speed with a better bite?

Is the real price tag …… their going out of business and closing The Dive ….. stay tuned ….. is a lot easier to paddle a paddle?

You must have graduated 1st in your class at navel engineering school. Row 40 minutes for a Guinness..you are a genius.

[pault842]

Sounds like it might be a cavitation problem. Might need to reprop and/or change the way the engines are mounted.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...18bedba9f.html

[ursa minor]

Originally Posted by pault842

Sounds like it might be a cavitation problem. Might need to reprop and/or change the way the engines are mounted.

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...18bedba9f.html

That’s a timely article. It sure sounds like cavitation is a major issue in reading that. Their idea of getting custom propellers made may be the way to go, I believe the propellers for the G2 Evinrudes are specific to those engines, not a lot of aftermarket options.

[fatlazyless]

..... oh yeah Biggd ...... with that new propeller that's just right for powering up The Dive ....... that there barge there ..... will be gett'n up on plane just so fast ..... it will be able to pull two water skiers right off from sitt'n on that Flightcraft dock without them gett'n their knees wet ..... new propellers is all it needs to make everything go good!

..... 2019 will be the year for The Dive!


....you gotta admit ...... putt'n a huge red sail, mast and boom on the barge could make it a way cool sailboat.
……………..

Will be interesting to see what some different propellers do for moving The Dive around the lake, and if two-strokers have enough torque to make it work out good?

You know the US Coast Guard seems to have settled with using the 250-hp Honda, two or more per boat, for powering up their 35' something patrol boats. After trying all the different outboards, the Coasties go with Honda because they just need an engine that works good.

Seems like a Honda 4-stroker would have more torque with its' intake-compression-combustion-exhaust 4-cycles than an Evinrude 2-stroker with it's abbreviated, higher rpm, intake & compression - combustion & exhaust, 2-cycles?

Like, who knows ……. but maybe just maybe, Honda actually makes a 250 designed with an extra heavy gear case, a slower engine speed, and a larger propeller that is designed for pushing those slower, heavy, high water resistance loads ….. and it's named the Honda 250-b, with the b an abbreviation for barge …… like, who knows?

[JADAQ]

Today’s Laconia Sun has a good write up about the Dive, it also goes into more detail about the engine troubles they encountered on the high seas of Lake Winnipesaukee!

https://www.laconiadailysun.com/news...18bedba9f.html

[Woodsy]

Most likely they will have to replace the lower "foot" of the outboards... that will allow them to essentially regear the motors and allow them to swing a much larger diameter propeller slowly... giving them more control and better thrust.

the little 14" diameter props on those outboards will def not cut it...


Woodsy

[winni83]

I thought that their engine problem was "solved".

From their FB page on August 18th.

"The Dive
August 18 ·
We ARE coming out to Smalls Cove!!!! Save us "our" spot please! Engine problem solved 🤞 see y'all soon! "

[8gv]

As an alternative approach to the water pick up issue, could forward facing scoops be afixed over the standard inlets?

[Greene's Basin Girl]

Originally Posted by 8gv

As an alternative approach to the water pick up issue, could forward facing scoops be afixed over the standard inlets?

Why not have a jet ski that can bring customers to the boat?

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by Greene's Basin Girl

Why not have a jet ski that can bring customers to the boat?

He is talking about cooling water to the motors. You seem to be talking about getting patrons to the boat. An entirely different issue.

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Would it be similar to these guys rowing?

Please don't feed the duck.