Kayak fees

Shrimpbrain · 09-07-2018, 08:32 AM

Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?

joey2665 · 09-07-2018, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimpbrain

Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?

First of all, there is NO place in the world like the BIG LAKE and secondly there also is not a place in the world that doesn't have issues (unless you know of a perfect place that has no issues and everyone shares the same opinion of every topic of discussion).

fatlazyless · 09-07-2018, 09:22 AM

The Fish & Game Dept has a lot to do with kayaking because F & G is the state dept that installs and maintains the many free-to-use boat launch ramps at lakes across the state.

About 3-5 years ago, F & G bought Downing's Landing in Alton Bay probably using funds raised from fishing licenses.

Getting access to the water, launching, and parking your car to unload the kayak off the roof rack is a key part of kayaking, so F & G is attached to kayaking/canoing/rowboats/small sailboats/stand up paddle boards and other non-motorized small boats.

Locally, Lakes Winnisquam, Squam, Newfound, and Winnipesaukee all have state launch ramps, totally free to use, so it seems like a $20 annual kayak fee stamp would be kayak money that is well spent.

Another way to raise needed funding is to install those 'iron deposit boxes' similar to what's used by the White Mountain National Forest at hiking trails, and charge $5/put-in, or $20/ annual sticker, so's the town launch ramp brings in funding when it is not staffed.

The local police could monitor the launch ramps from a distance with binoculars, make a blue lights pounce, and issue a $116.88 violation for kayaking without paying ....... book 'em

Barney ....... slap a ticket on their paddle ....... we got us another new customer ..... hee-hee-hee!

rick35 · 09-07-2018, 09:55 AM

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pay a paddling fee (kayak, sup, canoe) because, as FLL points out, F&G does support water access. I’d be ok with paying the fee but it would have to apply to everyone and be enforceable without costing as much or more than they take in. I just don’t see that happening. An honor system sounds like a good idea but in practice I’d still be paying while there’s a high probability of the people paddling next to me not paying. And someone still has to empty the honor boxes before the box is vandalized and the money stolen. That’s another non-starter.

We watch North Woods Law regularly and you have to love those F&G guys. What a great combination of law enforcement and conservation. Last weeks episode included a segment on saving a baby owl. Was it worth the time and effort (and cost) to save it? You bet it is! We do need to support them but the kayak fee just isn’t a viable solution.

Woodsy · 09-07-2018, 10:45 AM

It absolutely is a viable solution....

You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere... store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID.

F&G/MP enforce the law... $25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...

Woodsy

rick35 · 09-07-2018, 11:07 AM

Woodsy, I like your idea about how to distribute stickers but F&G and MP don’t have the staff to enforce the rules we already have. Go past Cattle Landing on a Saturday or Sunday and that’s a perfect example. If MP had enough staff they could sit there all day bagging 150 foot violators. But they don’t and they could bring in lots of money from the tickets they write.

8gv · 09-07-2018, 01:40 PM

If there were a well communicated sticker requirement I speculate that there would be a significant level of compliance.

That would bring in plenty of money.

It would not take long for everyone to hear of someone who was ticketed.

Compliance would grow and then level off at some number that brings in more money.

You don't need any more staff to enforce compliance, just a requirement.

The above proposal would incentivize communication of the requirement.

ApS · 09-08-2018, 05:22 PM

Regarding the effects of taxes:

Quote:

[The President's] economic logic was impeccable when he declared, “If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.”
http://blog.independent.org/2008/11/...-subsidize-it/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodsy

It absolutely is a viable solution...You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere...store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID. F&G/MP enforce the law...
$25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible...Woodsy

Irritating? Make kayakers go away?

New Hampshire's previous $10 "kayak fee" got the axe:

Quote:

"The unanimity of the New Hampshire Senate reflected the strong message sent by business owners and paddlers in New Hampshire. "Evidently they received a ton of mail against SB 255," said Earl Flanders, of Plymouth, New Hampshire.
"The senator who was the prime sponsor of the bill stood up and said that he was against it".
https://www.snewsnet.com/press-relea...-new-hampshire

The following echoes my thoughts—but are not my words:

Quote:

"My boating thoughts are conflicted in many ways, but predominantly by the battle between larger vs smaller. As I approach 64 years of age, the battle has been won in my head (if not in my heart) and my personal sailing is done in smaller boats. They are used more frequently, and they have a positive effect on more lives."

Thirty years ago, sailboats paid no "fee" in New Hampshire. But for today's "fee-crazy" boating, here's a thought:

Unpowered sailboats have a large range of sail area that affects the power that drives them. Since New Hampshire's excess air remains untaxed, why not charge a variable "fee" on kayaks for their sail area? How about $1 per square foot extra?

Do you want kayaks sneaking around for only $10, when they can put up their 17 square feet of sail in seconds?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQGUbMSPTM

(You can't understand the kayakers in this video, because they're speaking in 'Strine).

.

fatlazyless · 09-09-2018, 08:07 AM

After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak.

By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well ....... if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp.

Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ....... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ....... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ...... saving $45 ..... ?

ApS · 09-12-2018, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak. By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well … if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp.
Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ... saving $45 ... ?

New Hampshire's RSA270 E:4 had exempted sailing canoes; however, this pending bill will remove that exemption, and start canoe and kayak fees and other registrations.

Will this "Wind-Tax" bill (D-sponsored) get passed during winter, like the "even-louder boats" bill did?

fatlazyless · 09-12-2018, 07:30 AM

Well, thanks for this info about SB410, a bill to create a ten dollar fee stamp for canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats under 20', and sailboards. Was not aware.

No mention of stand up paddle boards which can be 11'6" x 32" ..... why are sups not in this bill?

So, for sailboats 12-20' without a motor, it sounds like the annual fee will be decreased from about $45 down to $10 because they already are supposed to pay the $45.

With three old, el cheapo, fixer upper, craigslist sailboats, sizes 12', 14', 16' ...... seems it will save me about $35 x 3 = $105 ...... thankyou very much Sen Lou D'Allesandro, Manchester and Goffstown ..... you is my type of a Democratic senator!

Also, many kayaks are made with polypropilene which can be difficult to get a sticker to adhere, so these kayak stickers need to have some good sticky adhesive or something.

Cannot decipher if this is an annual ten dollar fee, or a one time ten dollar fee and if the ten dollar sticker regulation applies to a 16' sailboat with a 3-hp outboard motor?

Rusty · 09-12-2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Cannot decipher if this is an annual ten dollar fee, or a one time ten dollar fee and if the ten dollar sticker regulation applies to a 16' sailboat with a 3-hp outboard motor?

Don't lose any sleep over this question because the bill won't pass anyway.

One thing that could be done would be to set a fee on any shore front home owner who pumps water out of the lake for domestic use. Know anyone who does that FLL?

fatlazyless · 09-12-2018, 10:21 AM

..... there's always your local free public library with treated town water that is probably safer to drink than your home's drilled deep well which can have arsenic, radon, small rock particles , and bad taste.... never mind from the lake itself.

My Lake Winni water is always clean looking and good for a gray water system????????????????

Blue lug-a-jugs: a name for all the local islanders, water-fronters, and everyone else who basically considers their tap water as a "gray water source" and brings home what is safe to use for coffee and cooking, treated town water in a blue lug-a-jug.

Here in New Hampshire, the blue lug-a-jug group of people is probably a large, maybe 25% of the state??? Welcome to tax free New Hampshire; your lug-a-jug state!

.... three cheers to the treated Meredith town water ....... is excellent quality! Meredith has good town water ..... I just wish it was available to me .... the last hydrant is at corner of Pleasant St and Barnard Ridge Rd, about five miles away so's it will not be getting here anytime soon ..... like, probably never.

Oh well ..... a blue 3-gal lug-a-jug costs about 10-dollars and lasts for years and years ..... and the library is free.

Biggd · 09-12-2018, 10:55 AM

He must have got his unlimited WiFi back.

MAXUM · 09-12-2018, 11:44 AM

In reading the proposed legislation I have to laugh at the entire thing.

Thought this was being sold as a means to fund the F&G, yet why is HALF of this going to the lake restoration and preservation fund?

(a) Fifty percent shall be credited to the fish and game search and rescue fund established in RSA 206:42; and
(b) Fifty percent shall be credited to the lake restoration and preservation fund established in RSA 487:25.

There is also an additional $1 fee that is going to be added to each and every boat registration, OHRV (ATV) registration and snowmobile registration as well.

The additional fee of $1 collected under the provisions of RSA 270-E:5, II(b) for each private boat registered, under RSA 215-A:23, X for each OHRV registered, and under RSA 215-C:39, XI for each snowmobile registered, and the additional fees collected pursuant to RSA 270-E:7, III for each canoe or kayak registered, shall be paid over to the state treasurer who shall keep such fees in a special fund to be expended by the fish and game department for use in search and rescue operations.

It gets even better, in the interest of efficiency the portion of this that is collected for the lake restoration and preservation fund flows through.... wait for it.... the DMV? HUH? Then it is supposed to be, without loss of any money, given to the state treasurer for safe keeping in the lake restoration and preservation fund.

The fee of $9.50 collected under the provisions of RSA 270-E:5, II(a), and the fees collected pursuant to RSA 270-E:7, III, shall be paid to the director of the division of motor vehicles. The director of the division of motor vehicles shall pay over said fee to the state treasurer who shall keep the fee in a special fund to be expended by the department of environmental services.

Now for the kicker:

The Department of Safety estimates required one-time system programming costs to total $90,000 and also states it would require an additional cash terminal operator position (labor grade 11), which would cost (salary and benefits) $53,000 in FY 2019, $55,000 in FY 2020, $58,000 in FY 2021, and $61,000 in FY 2022. As this bill does not provide a funding source to offset these costs to the Department, it is assumed they would be a charge to the navigation safety fund. The navigation safety fund will also be utilized to purchase canoe and kayak boat decals.

That's beautiful considering they have no estimations as to how much will be taken in and whether or not the costs will even offset one another. So it's a smart idea to peel funding from the navigation safety fund for this?

The sponsor of this bill is a donkey literally and figuratively.

tis · 09-12-2018, 11:47 AM

I am sorry. Is everybody in government stupid??????

fatlazyless · 09-12-2018, 11:58 AM

Yes, but it seems like it will lower the annual fee from aproximately $45 down to $10 for sailboats 12-20' because these sailboats currently pay $45/year and maybe even more for the 17-18-19-20'ers with or without an auxiliary small outboard motor?

Also, is this proposed 'kayak' $10 sticker fee a one time or an annual fee?

Will the stickers really, really, really actually stick to a polypropilene kayak without getting washed off ........ an important concern!

Maybe Senator Lou D'Allesandro can get someone from Las Vegas to build a casino on the large empty lot just below the Weirs Cumberland Gas and Go ....... helloooooooo Lou buddy ....... build us a Weirs Beach casino ...... Viva Weirs the money all-winter-long Lou! ......

ApS · 09-12-2018, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Yes, but it seems like it will lower the annual fee from approximately $45 down to $10 for sailboats 12-20' because these sailboats currently pay $45/year and maybe even more for the 17-18-19-20'ers with or without an auxiliary small outboard motor? Also, is this proposed 'kayak' $10 sticker fee a one time or an annual fee? Will the stickers really, really, really actually stick to a polypropylene kayak without getting washed off ... an important concern! Maybe Senator Lou D'Allesandro can get someone from Las Vegas to build a casino on the large empty lot just below the Weirs Cumberland Gas and Go … helloooooooo Lou buddy ... build us a Weirs Beach casino ... Viva Weirs the money all-winter-long Lou! ...

Do these sections (of a bill said to have "passed") answer your registration question?

Quote:

3 Vessel Registration and Numbering; Exemption From Registration. Amend RSA 270-E:4, I to read as follows:

I. Sailboats under 12 feet in length[,] and rowboats [and canoes] powered by sail, oars, paddles, or other human power. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from registration except as provided in paragraph II.

and

Quote:

7 Vessel Registration and Numbering; Exemptions From Displaying Numbers. Amend RSA 270-E:9, I(h) to read as follows:

(h) A sailboat under 20 feet in length[, or any vessel that is only powered by oars or paddles]. Any vessel which has an inboard or outboard motor shall not be exempt from displaying a number except as otherwise provided in this section.

__________________

Will a sticker remain attached to a roto-molded kayak hull?

Tough to answer. I suspect a committee to check on suitable adhesives will be established.

A registration number on an Optimist kiddie-class sailboat will run around the transom!

fatlazyless · 09-12-2018, 06:17 PM

Well, thanks for that, it answers more questions than can be comprehended by someone with above average intelligence.

Apparently, this Senate Bill 410-FN does not apply the proposed annual ten dollar kayak tax to stand up paddle boards which are usually 10'6", or 11'6" length, and are considered by the US Coast Guard to be a vessel which requires a pfd and a whistle. If a sup is used within a swim or bathing area then it is not a vessel, but in most all other uses, it is considered to be a vessel which this proposed kayak stamp law has over looked.

If the US Coast Guard says a sup is a vessel, then here in NH, a sup is a vessel, and a stand up paddle board (sup) deserves a ten dollar kayak stamp similar to a kayak/canoe/rowboat/small sailboat (all without a motor) ......... legally speaking. Besides, a sup uses the lake pretty similar to a paddle kayak or canoe.

www.myfwc.com/boating/regulations/paddleboard/

MAXUM · 09-12-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tis

I am sorry. Is everybody in government stupid??????

Only as stupid as the electorate that puts them there.

Descant · 09-12-2018, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

Well, thanks for this info about SB410, a bill to create a ten dollar fee stamp for canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats under 20', and sailboards. Was not aware.

I'm confused. SB410 creates a committee to study a boat safe card. There is no mention of a fee, a fiscal note, the state treasurer etc. etc.
http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_sta...txtFormat=html

What bill are you guys talking about? It;'s not the SB410 the Governor signed.

fatlazyless · 09-12-2018, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Descant

What bill are you guys talking about? It;'s not the SB410 the Governor signed.

Sorry, have absolutely no clue?

For a canoe, rowboat or a sailboat with a small outboard motor which costs about $50/yr to register, I am guessing this would remain the same, and a kayak stamp would not be required, but that's just my uneducated guess?

As long as the NH Marine Trades political action committee from Gilford is not supporting this bill, this bill will be sure to die a fast death ..... will never ever get passed into law!

fatlazyless · 09-07-2018, 10:59 AM

The five dollar/day hiking pay boxes are not really an honor system. You get a two piece do-it-yourself receipt that you place on top of your dashboard so it's visible through the windshield so a patrol visit can tell which cars have annual stickers and which have one day receipts.

The WMNF system has been in use for about 15 years, and the demographics for hikers are probably similar to the demos for paddlers, so if it works for hikers ...... it encourages lake users to help by paying their small share ..... in their clean lake.

09-07-2018, 09:22 AM	#3
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	The Fish & Game Dept has a lot to do with kayaking because F & G is the state dept that installs and maintains the many free-to-use boat launch ramps at lakes across the state. About 3-5 years ago, F & G bought Downing's Landing in Alton Bay probably using funds raised from fishing licenses. Getting access to the water, launching, and parking your car to unload the kayak off the roof rack is a key part of kayaking, so F & G is attached to kayaking/canoing/rowboats/small sailboats/stand up paddle boards and other non-motorized small boats. Locally, Lakes Winnisquam, Squam, Newfound, and Winnipesaukee all have state launch ramps, totally free to use, so it seems like a $20 annual kayak fee stamp would be kayak money that is well spent. Another way to raise needed funding is to install those 'iron deposit boxes' similar to what's used by the White Mountain National Forest at hiking trails, and charge $5/put-in, or $20/ annual sticker, so's the town launch ramp brings in funding when it is not staffed. The local police could monitor the launch ramps from a distance with binoculars, make a blue lights pounce, and issue a $116.88 violation for kayaking without paying ....... book 'em Barney ....... slap a ticket on their paddle ....... we got us another new customer ..... hee-hee-hee! __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

09-07-2018, 10:45 AM	#5
Woodsy Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Weirs Beach Posts: 1,966 Thanks: 80 Thanked 980 Times in 440 Posts	It absolutely is a viable solution.... You institute the fee/law and sell the stickers for $10 everywhere... store owners get $2 for selling stickers. Keep stickers same color as boat reg for easy ID. F&G/MP enforce the law... $25 fine. Not a deal breaker, just enough to be irritating. It will not take long until you see 85%-90% compliance. The cost to enforce the law is negligible... Woodsy __________________ The only way to eliminate ignorant behavior is through education. You can't fix stupid.

09-09-2018, 08:07 AM	#9
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	After watching that 11-minute youtube with the sail rigged ocean kayaks somewhere off Tasmania, did you know the www.topkayaker.com located in Ossipee NH seems like the place to get a mast and sail for your $144 Walmart kayak. By the way, if the kayak is 12' long and has a sail, then it probably needs to be registered in NH which costs about $45/year. Oh well ....... if you can afford a kayak with a sail, then the $45 is probably no big hurdle. Displaying the registration stickers without displaying the 3" high hull numbers on both sides of the bow is ok for sailboats from 12-16', so that is basically a $45 annual fee stamp. Am not too sure about kayak sailors longer than 12' needing to be registered ....... could be one of those rules that almost never gets enforced ....... and can probably go 12' kayak sailing like this without the sticker ...... saving $45 ..... ? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-09-2018 at 09:00 AM.

09-12-2018, 07:30 AM	#11
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	Well, thanks for this info about SB410, a bill to create a ten dollar fee stamp for canoes, kayaks, rowboats, sailboats under 20', and sailboards. Was not aware. No mention of stand up paddle boards which can be 11'6" x 32" ..... why are sups not in this bill? So, for sailboats 12-20' without a motor, it sounds like the annual fee will be decreased from about $45 down to $10 because they already are supposed to pay the $45. With three old, el cheapo, fixer upper, craigslist sailboats, sizes 12', 14', 16' ...... seems it will save me about $35 x 3 = $105 ...... thankyou very much Sen Lou D'Allesandro, Manchester and Goffstown ..... you is my type of a Democratic senator! Also, many kayaks are made with polypropilene which can be difficult to get a sticker to adhere, so these kayak stickers need to have some good sticky adhesive or something. Cannot decipher if this is an annual ten dollar fee, or a one time ten dollar fee and if the ten dollar sticker regulation applies to a 16' sailboat with a 3-hp outboard motor? __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-12-2018 at 12:12 PM.

09-12-2018, 10:21 AM	#13
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	..... there's always your local free public library with treated town water that is probably safer to drink than your home's drilled deep well which can have arsenic, radon, small rock particles , and bad taste.... never mind from the lake itself. My Lake Winni water is always clean looking and good for a gray water system???????????????? Blue lug-a-jugs: a name for all the local islanders, water-fronters, and everyone else who basically considers their tap water as a "gray water source" and brings home what is safe to use for coffee and cooking, treated town water in a blue lug-a-jug. Here in New Hampshire, the blue lug-a-jug group of people is probably a large, maybe 25% of the state??? Welcome to tax free New Hampshire; your lug-a-jug state! .... three cheers to the treated Meredith town water ....... is excellent quality! Meredith has good town water ..... I just wish it was available to me .... the last hydrant is at corner of Pleasant St and Barnard Ridge Rd, about five miles away so's it will not be getting here anytime soon ..... like, probably never. Oh well ..... a blue 3-gal lug-a-jug costs about 10-dollars and lasts for years and years ..... and the library is free. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-12-2018 at 11:51 AM.

09-07-2018, 08:32 AM	#1
Shrimpbrain Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 39 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 7 Posts	Why doesn't NH increase All TOLLS at the border of NH coming from every state. Just those TOLLS. Make it a 1 time 20 dollar charge to every car coming in this once great state. Yep, you guys did ruin it !!! That way instead of complaining all the time, you could sit back and scream at all the boaters. I find these conversations so hilarious to listen to. If NH is so bad, why even come here to be so upset?

09-07-2018, 09:55 AM	#4
rick35 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bear Island/Merrimack Posts: 807 Thanks: 58 Thanked 203 Times in 130 Posts	I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pay a paddling fee (kayak, sup, canoe) because, as FLL points out, F&G does support water access. I’d be ok with paying the fee but it would have to apply to everyone and be enforceable without costing as much or more than they take in. I just don’t see that happening. An honor system sounds like a good idea but in practice I’d still be paying while there’s a high probability of the people paddling next to me not paying. And someone still has to empty the honor boxes before the box is vandalized and the money stolen. That’s another non-starter. We watch North Woods Law regularly and you have to love those F&G guys. What a great combination of law enforcement and conservation. Last weeks episode included a segment on saving a baby owl. Was it worth the time and effort (and cost) to save it? You bet it is! We do need to support them but the kayak fee just isn’t a viable solution.

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09-07-2018, 11:07 AM	#6
rick35 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bear Island/Merrimack Posts: 807 Thanks: 58 Thanked 203 Times in 130 Posts	Woodsy, I like your idea about how to distribute stickers but F&G and MP don’t have the staff to enforce the rules we already have. Go past Cattle Landing on a Saturday or Sunday and that’s a perfect example. If MP had enough staff they could sit there all day bagging 150 foot violators. But they don’t and they could bring in lots of money from the tickets they write.

09-07-2018, 01:40 PM	#7
8gv Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 2,107 Thanks: 64 Thanked 746 Times in 480 Posts	If there were a well communicated sticker requirement I speculate that there would be a significant level of compliance. That would bring in plenty of money. It would not take long for everyone to hear of someone who was ticketed. Compliance would grow and then level off at some number that brings in more money. You don't need any more staff to enforce compliance, just a requirement. The above proposal would incentivize communication of the requirement.

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09-12-2018, 10:55 AM	#14
Biggd Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Waltham Ma./Meredith NH Posts: 4,153 Thanks: 2,239 Thanked 1,197 Times in 763 Posts	He must have got his unlimited WiFi back.

09-12-2018, 11:44 AM	#15
MAXUM Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kuna ID Posts: 2,755 Thanks: 246 Thanked 1,942 Times in 802 Posts	In reading the proposed legislation I have to laugh at the entire thing. Thought this was being sold as a means to fund the F&G, yet why is HALF of this going to the lake restoration and preservation fund? (a) Fifty percent shall be credited to the fish and game search and rescue fund established in RSA 206:42; and (b) Fifty percent shall be credited to the lake restoration and preservation fund established in RSA 487:25. There is also an additional $1 fee that is going to be added to each and every boat registration, OHRV (ATV) registration and snowmobile registration as well. The additional fee of $1 collected under the provisions of RSA 270-E:5, II(b) for each private boat registered, under RSA 215-A:23, X for each OHRV registered, and under RSA 215-C:39, XI for each snowmobile registered, and the additional fees collected pursuant to RSA 270-E:7, III for each canoe or kayak registered, shall be paid over to the state treasurer who shall keep such fees in a special fund to be expended by the fish and game department for use in search and rescue operations. It gets even better, in the interest of efficiency the portion of this that is collected for the lake restoration and preservation fund flows through.... wait for it.... the DMV? HUH? Then it is supposed to be, without loss of any money, given to the state treasurer for safe keeping in the lake restoration and preservation fund. The fee of $9.50 collected under the provisions of RSA 270-E:5, II(a), and the fees collected pursuant to RSA 270-E:7, III, shall be paid to the director of the division of motor vehicles. The director of the division of motor vehicles shall pay over said fee to the state treasurer who shall keep the fee in a special fund to be expended by the department of environmental services. Now for the kicker: The Department of Safety estimates required one-time system programming costs to total $90,000 and also states it would require an additional cash terminal operator position (labor grade 11), which would cost (salary and benefits) $53,000 in FY 2019, $55,000 in FY 2020, $58,000 in FY 2021, and $61,000 in FY 2022. As this bill does not provide a funding source to offset these costs to the Department, it is assumed they would be a charge to the navigation safety fund. The navigation safety fund will also be utilized to purchase canoe and kayak boat decals. That's beautiful considering they have no estimations as to how much will be taken in and whether or not the costs will even offset one another. So it's a smart idea to peel funding from the navigation safety fund for this? The sponsor of this bill is a donkey literally and figuratively.

09-12-2018, 11:47 AM	#16
tis Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,746 Thanks: 752 Thanked 1,459 Times in 1,016 Posts	I am sorry. Is everybody in government stupid??????

09-12-2018, 11:58 AM	#17
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	Yes, but it seems like it will lower the annual fee from aproximately $45 down to $10 for sailboats 12-20' because these sailboats currently pay $45/year and maybe even more for the 17-18-19-20'ers with or without an auxiliary small outboard motor? Also, is this proposed 'kayak' $10 sticker fee a one time or an annual fee? Will the stickers really, really, really actually stick to a polypropilene kayak without getting washed off ........ an important concern! Maybe Senator Lou D'Allesandro can get someone from Las Vegas to build a casino on the large empty lot just below the Weirs Cumberland Gas and Go ....... helloooooooo Lou buddy ....... build us a Weirs Beach casino ...... Viva Weirs the money all-winter-long Lou! ...... __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!

09-12-2018, 06:17 PM	#19
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	Well, thanks for that, it answers more questions than can be comprehended by someone with above average intelligence. Apparently, this Senate Bill 410-FN does not apply the proposed annual ten dollar kayak tax to stand up paddle boards which are usually 10'6", or 11'6" length, and are considered by the US Coast Guard to be a vessel which requires a pfd and a whistle. If a sup is used within a swim or bathing area then it is not a vessel, but in most all other uses, it is considered to be a vessel which this proposed kayak stamp law has over looked. If the US Coast Guard says a sup is a vessel, then here in NH, a sup is a vessel, and a stand up paddle board (sup) deserves a ten dollar kayak stamp similar to a kayak/canoe/rowboat/small sailboat (all without a motor) ......... legally speaking. Besides, a sup uses the lake pretty similar to a paddle kayak or canoe. www.myfwc.com/boating/regulations/paddleboard/ __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake! Last edited by fatlazyless; 09-12-2018 at 07:37 PM.

09-07-2018, 10:59 AM	#23
fatlazyless Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 8,761 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 300 Thanked 1,014 Times in 739 Posts	The five dollar/day hiking pay boxes are not really an honor system. You get a two piece do-it-yourself receipt that you place on top of your dashboard so it's visible through the windshield so a patrol visit can tell which cars have annual stickers and which have one day receipts. The WMNF system has been in use for about 15 years, and the demographics for hikers are probably similar to the demos for paddlers, so if it works for hikers ...... it encourages lake users to help by paying their small share ..... in their clean lake. __________________ ... down and out, liv'n that Walmart side of the lake!