The Dive!

[Phantom]

My mental image of FLL's home computer …………. upgraded last year to have 2 floppy drives.

[joey2665]

That is hilarious!!!!!!

[fatlazyless]

....so true up til few months ago .... have stepped up to a $179 Acer 15" lap top.... hey ..... I may be slow, but I am still here, driv'n up front of you! ...

[AC2717]

SO my question becomes:

with mooring and docks and the current laws, isn't it true that current boats cannot swing off a mooring or be docked over the property line of a neighbor? wouldn't this hold true in this situation, especially because of property lines already established, and there are slips under that pier that boats went into that kept them on the pier's side of a property line.

I for one am disappointed with East Coast Flight tech and the Dive owners for setting up this way, and I hope it is temporary. One would think neighbor discussion should have happened.


Seems like ever since the Goodhue Hawkins/East Coast Flight Craft took over Colbalt up in NH they have been trying to take over the world, which good for them, and I'm fine with that but now they are over stretching with this move. They wont block the Anthony's view but will cross over the property line to block others and yes that is a navigational hazard in that area

I truly believe that property owner and the owners on that street have a legitimate complaint in multiple aspects

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by AC2717

SO my question becomes ..... isn't it true that current boats cannot swing off a mooring or be docked over the property line of a neighbor? wouldn't this hold true in this situation, especially because of property lines already established, and there are slips under that pier that boats went into that kept them on the pier's side of a property line.

I truly believe that property owner and the owners on that street have a legitimate complaint in multiple aspects

The Marine Patrol typically asks to get written consent from the neighbor saying it is ok with a neighbor's boat moored out front on the property line between their home and their neighbors, swinging around on a mooring, depending on the wind.

It comes down to whether or not the neighbor is ok with seeing a lot of their neighbor's boat, out front. It is subjective, and some boats just look better than others ...... like a graceful sailboat vs a barge-restaurant?

Having it there for almost 24-7 probably makes even the best looking boat become an eyesore ..... unless it is your own boat .... and then it is totally beautiful!

If The Dive were not parked there for hours and hours and days and days ..... it would be an open and uncluttered view of open water going out for about a mile to Governor's Island and the right side of Weirs Bay ..... but what you got is a 24' wide x 62' long x 20' tall barge restaurant bar blocking the natural view.

Besides the view issue, there is a zoning issue too, because it changes the use from recreational to commercial. Commercial use stops at the property line, there, and The Dive is way over the line.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by AC2717

SO my question becomes:

with mooring and docks and the current laws, isn't it true that current boats cannot swing off a mooring or be docked over the property line of a neighbor? wouldn't this hold true in this situation, especially because of property lines already established, and there are slips under that pier that boats went into that kept them on the pier's side of a property line.

I for one am disappointed with East Coast Flight tech and the Dive owners for setting up this way, and I hope it is temporary. One would think neighbor discussion should have happened.


Seems like ever since the Goodhue Hawkins/East Coast Flight Craft took over Colbalt up in NH they have been trying to take over the world, which good for them, and I'm fine with that but now they are over stretching with this move. They wont block the Anthony's view but will cross over the property line to block others and yes that is a navigational hazard in that area

I truly believe that property owner and the owners on that street have a legitimate complaint in multiple aspects

Where is "Shore Things" when we need him? I am sure he would have an answer or if he doesn't he would certainly know where to get the correct answer

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Where is "Shore Things" when we need him? I am sure he would have an answer or if he doesn't he would certainly know where to get the correct answer

To be correct ..... this should say: Where is "Shore Things" when we need her? I am sure she would have an answer or if she doesn't she would certainly know where to get the correct answer.

It's a Marine Patrol issue first because it is trespassing.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

To be correct ..... this should say: Where is "Shore Things" when we need her? I am sure she would have an answer or if she doesn't she would certainly know where to get the correct answer.

It's a Marine Patrol issue first because it is trespassing.

Sorry you are correct her not him. I know its an MP issue first but she is extremely knowledgeable and well versed on most lake issues and would not be surprised if she had an answer

[Woodsy]

So I went and looked at the tax maps, to see where the property lines were etc etc. So while the people who own the lot #24 might not be happy with the Dive somewhat obstructing their view.... the Dive is fully within the property lines of the Pier. If you really want to be picky... draw a straight line out along the property line and the #24 dock actually impedes the Pier!

I think the Pier & Dive are legal and all in all I hope they find a way to co-exist.

Woodsy

[birchhaven]

Originally Posted by Woodsy

So I went and looked at the tax maps, to see where the property lines were etc etc. So while the people who own the lot #24 might not be happy with the Dive somewhat obstructing their view.... the Dive is fully within the property lines of the Pier. If you really want to be picky... draw a straight line out along the property line and the #24 dock actually impedes the Pier!

I think the Pier & Dive are legal and all in all I hope they find a way to co-exist.

Woodsy

I have no opinion, but I do know property lines when they hit the water can be looked at two ways the way you describe and also, perpendicular to the shore line from the point it hits the water (I am pretty sure this is how NH DES views it for dock permiting). The angle that the property line is at when it hits the water line has no effect. I am not aware of any actual laws the Dive is breaking but what do I know

[fatlazyless]

The Winnipesaukee Pier, there, was built in 1925 so there's been an open and unobstructed view from the bottom of Simpson Ave, two waterfront homes going back to1925.

A floating restaurant with a structure, size 24' x 64' x 20', is much more a building than a boat. It looks and operates like a commercial building when it is tied up to the dock there, so does it get away with obstructing a view that's been unobstructed since 1925 because it supposedly is a boat, which it is not.

If you ever watch it try to negotiate the waves and wind you will see it is not see much of a boat. It is a floating building that can slowly negotiate calm waters with little wind present.

If it were moved way to the right, for docking, in the spot formerly occupied by the 48' sailboat, Winnipesaukee Queen, close to the bow of the Mount Washington ..... it would be close to other cruise boats and not blocking any residential homes. Seems like a smooth move, to here, there, here, there! ...

The rules for mooring boats are based on the operation of a boat, and a floating building is not a boat, it is used as a building when it is tied to a dock for public use.

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by birchhaven

The angle that the property line is at when it hits the water line has no effect. I am not aware of any actual laws the Dive is breaking but what do I know

That is incorrect. The property line continues into the lake for the purpose of docking. In other words, if your property line hits the lake at an angle (not perpendicular) that line continues at the same angle for purpose of docking.

[jazzman]

Well there is the view and the music thumping until 11PM every night (but then it was probably worse in the hayday of Winni Gardens.

I can't believe that it's legal to dock nose in like that. The Dive can't possibly be stable like that. Are the spuds down?

What is the docking like on a stiff NW wind (like yesterday)? It looks tricky to come in past the tail of the dive down wind and get onto your dock.

I'm all for free enterprise but this all doesn't smell right to me.

I suspect the Dive will remain docked most of the time. I don't think they ventured more than 1/4 mile from home base more than twice last year and they had no captive crowd on their home dock.

[tis]

I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

[thinkxingu]

Originally Posted by tis

I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

Nor would I want to hear it--it's essentially a nightclub moving next door.

That being said, has anyone actually asked the plan? I would think waiting too long will create a precedent.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by thinkxingu

Nor would I want to hear it--it's essentially a nightclub moving next door.

That being said, has anyone actually asked the plan? I would think waiting too long will create a precedent.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

I just posed the question on their Facebook page to see if they have some type of schedule this season for visiting sand bars.

Also from their Facebook page they are selling tickets to board this weekend. The tickets are good for the day and you can board and disembark as you wish so obviously they are staying put this weekend.

Additionally looks like when the Weirs have their fireworks shows you will be able to board.

All this is making me lean towards they are not venturing out this season but I will report back when I have an answer


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[Taz]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I just posed the question on their Facebook page to see if they have some type of schedule this season for visiting sand bars.

Also from their Facebook page they are selling tickets to board this weekend. The tickets are good for the day and you can board and disembark as you wish so obviously they are staying put this weekend.

Additionally looks like when the Weirs have their fireworks shows you will be able to board.

All this is making me lean towards they are not venturing out this season but I will report back when I have an answer


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

I don't think there would be any schedule. I think they want to make the decision to go to a sand bar as last minute as possible due to weather, wind, chop etc. I would think they definitely will stay put until there are enough boaters/people and the water is warm enough to get in the water and walk at a sand bar. My guess is earliest would be mid to late June but maybe later.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Taz

I don't think there would be any schedule. I think they want to make the decision to go to a sand bar as last minute as possible due to weather, wind, chop etc. I would think they definitely will stay put until there are enough boaters/people and the water is warm enough to get in the water and walk at a sand bar. My guess is earliest would be mid to late June but maybe later.

Really asking to see if they are going to venture out this season or are staying at the pier


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[Taz]

Originally Posted by joey2665

Really asking to see if they are going to venture out this season or are staying at the pier


Sent from my iPhone using Winnipesaukee Forum mobile app

They have said on their FB page when asked this question that they will be going to sand bars, quote "they love their sandbar crowd"

[fatlazyless]

...... here comes the dive ...... very slowly ....... coming down the passage between Bear and Mark Island and maybe..... probably?.....going to its Weirs home port ...... there it is ..... looks like a big white shoe box or something.....or like a big gypsy boxy house boat or something..... is pointed directly at me ..... so's think I'll go hit the lake and wave as it goes by ..... who knows ..... will probably adjust course ..... is moving very slowly ..... at about maybe 4-mph ....definitely a no wake speed ..... gotta hit the water ..... is actually sorta nice look'n out there ....... everyone just loves the dive! ....... weeoooooooo!

[rick35]

I saw the Dive go by this morning and when it returned this afternoon. It goes really slow and those big Evinrudes were revving pretty loud. It does look like a big shoebox. With all that upper weight i’d be concerned about it tipping over.

[upthesaukee]

Originally Posted by tis

I agree, I would not like to look at it either. That boat is like an orphan, nobody wants it in their back yard.

Maybe change name from "The Dive" to "NIMBY" or "NIMFY" (back yard or front yard).

Dave

PS, I wouldn't want to be looking at it or listening to the noise either.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by upthesaukee

Maybe change name from "The Dive" to "NIMBY" or "NIMFY" (back yard or front yard).

Dave

PS, I wouldn't want to be looking at it or listening to the noise either.

Unfortunately given the history of the pier the noise is probably not violating any city ordinance.
I’m all for this business succeeding but not at the expense of being a nuisance to its neighbors


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[Woodsy]

Joey...

I asked that question when I was on the Dive Saturday night..... they do plan to be going to Braun Bay several times this summer. Will it be every weekend? That I do not know.

Woodsy

[ishoot308]

I have a hard time believing that the Dive or Flightcraft just made this move without checking with the town first...Does anyone here actually believe they made this move without checking if it was legal and within their rights before doing it??

As far as noise goes...Each town has an ordinance that must be complied with. If they are not complying you have gripe...if they are, tough luck! However, if you wanted serenity you don't buy a home at the Weirs 100' from the busiest pier on the lake!

Dan

[Taz]

Originally Posted by ishoot308

I have a hard time believing that the Dive or Flightcraft just made this move without checking with the town first...Does anyone here actually believe they made this move without checking if it was legal and within their rights before doing it??

As far as noise goes...Each town has an ordinance that must be complied with. If they are not complying you have gripe...if they are, tough luck! However, if you wanted serenity you don't buy a home at the Weirs 100' from the busiest pier on the lake!

Dan

I would hope so but then again they did not check with the town of Alton last fall and look how that turned out.

[Seaplane Pilot]

There was a court case based in Moultonborough a few years ago where a property owner took his neighbor to court for parking a commercial barge at his property. Can’t recall the exact details; for instance whether view blocking came into play or not, but the court sided with the barge owner in the end. Other than violating any noise ordinances that may be in place, I think the Dive is probably not going to move voluntarily. Might not be “neighborly”, but I don’t think they are breaking any rules, laws or ordinances. On the other hand, I too wouldn’t want to have to look at it or listen to it.

[AC2717]

Laconia has a noise ordinance and it does not have particular time frames, neither does Gilford. i know this from my battle with China Bistro that hopefully ended a few years back. If you make a complaint they will come out when you call them for the complaint. They will also go and request noises be taken care of and could actually write them a ticket for it.

That is the short of it, other than going to town meetings after documented complaints and the town steps in.

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by Seaplane Pilot

I don’t think they are breaking any rules, laws or ordinances.

I think that has turned out to be the case after speaking to a few people at the pier today.

I haven't seen any posted yet so I took a few pictures of the boarding area underneath the arcade and Anthony's. There was a private party on board so there was no other activity yet:

[BrunoSR]

Hey that third picture looks like your standing on my boat?

You didn't happen to clean all the pollen off did you?

[webmaster]

Originally Posted by BrunoSR

Hey that third picture looks like your standing on my boat?

You didn't happen to clean all the pollen off did you?

I was standing on the dock and left the pollen for you .

[LIforrelaxin]

Well, it looks like we will have a lot to talk about in regards tot he DIVE.

On the issue of what kind of complaints might come from adjacent property owners, until you know what has been discussed with them, all you are doing is speculating that there may or may not be a problem. I know I would have an issue, but hey if the DIVE came in and said, we will compensate you, it could bring a different twist to the issue...

I would hope and think that ECFC and the DIVE, have done their homework before setting things up...

I think for me the biggest question is just how often is the DIVE, going to leave Port.... If she is out all the time, how they dock her really isn't a big inconvience. However if she is to be there more often then not, and serving food etc. then not only is there a issue with views, and boat maneuvering, but also with smell etc. Which you could argue already exists because of the other restaurants but he, sometime a new restaurant might bring a bad odor....

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by LIforrelaxin

Well, it looks like we will have a lot to talk about in regards tot he DIVE.

On the issue of what kind of complaints might come from adjacent property owners, until you know what has been discussed with them, all you are doing is speculating that there may or may not be a problem. I know I would have an issue, but hey if the DIVE came in and said, we will compensate you, it could bring a different twist to the issue...

I would hope and think that ECFC and the DIVE, have done their homework before setting things up...

I think for me the biggest question is just how often is the DIVE, going to leave Port.... If she is out all the time, how they dock her really isn't a big inconvience. However if she is to be there more often then not, and serving food etc. then not only is there a issue with views, and boat maneuvering, but also with smell etc. Which you could argue already exists because of the other restaurants but he, sometime a new restaurant might bring a bad odor....

The complaints have already started. See post #53 above. The dive's current mooring location has blocked their view and creates a safety issue according to them.

Hopefully as you said East Coast and the neighbors can come up with so type of arrangement, that is assuming the current location is legal.

[LIforrelaxin]

Originally Posted by joey2665

The complaints have already started. See post #53 above. The dive's current mooring location has blocked their view and creates a safety issue according to them.

Hopefully as you said East Coast and the neighbors can come up with so type of arrangement, that is assuming the current location is legal.

Thanks I guess I missed that post....
Definitely blocks the view there is no doubt about that. As far as posing a safety issue well that I would have to be convinced of...

More importantly however it doesn't sound like Winnipesaukee Peir (ECFC) or the DIVE, tried to do a little neighborly conversing before making such a decision. However once again if they have done things correctly, and obtained permits, there maybe very little that the home owners can do. Unless they weren't notified, and there is a stipulation in a permit application that states they needed to be.

[Descant]

It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Descant

It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

I find IBOW to have a very different demographic that winnipesaukee.com. IBOW tends to be a younger crowd that is more into water sports and the bar scene. This site tends to have more established and long time lake residents. Just my observation I have never completed a survey

[fatlazyless]

.....think I'll head down to The Dive and get myself a cold, dark Guinness ...... how much for a Guinness at The Dive? ...... probably if I identify myself they will give it to me for free ...... one beer and I'm too gone to be driving the car .... honestly ... so, is best to be boat'n there ...... boat'n n beer ..... go together like ...... (finish this line here) .......

[Outdoorsman]

What is interesting is that just a year ago, when the dive first made an appearance on the lake, people were up in arms because she was parking at the sand bar. Fast forward to today, people are up in arms because she is parked in the Weirs.

I wonder how many are the same people that are just going to complain no matter what?

Source:
https://www.winnipesaukee.com/forums...highlight=dive

Views: 107,837
Replies : 752

Free publicity though....

[tmrealtors]

Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.
I was never notified as an abutter of this and although they say they leave all day to go to the sand bar...they have not moved in a week. I can't imagine them leaving 7 days a week even on windy, chilly days this Summer. My poor neighbors behind me now only see the dive when they look out their back porches.

***Hoping the owners consider all us neighbors and do the right thing***

[Mr. V]

Originally Posted by tmrealtors

Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.

That seems no different than someone living on a hillside who had a good view until the owner of the lot in front of him decided to build a multi-level home which obstructs their view.

Sure, you don't like it: but what can you actually DO about it?

Legally, I mean.

[Taz]

Originally Posted by tmrealtors

Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.
I was never notified as an abutter of this and although they say they leave all day to go to the sand bar...they have not moved in a week. I can't imagine them leaving 7 days a week even on windy, chilly days this Summer. My poor neighbors behind me now only see the dive when they look out their back porches.

***Hoping the owners consider all us neighbors and do the right thing***

I agree with you. I wouldn't like it. No recourse as you were not notified as an abutter? Unfortunately, I do not see it moving anytime soon because they need warm water and more people going to sand bars to be worth moving to a sand bar.

[TheTimeTraveler]

Originally Posted by tmrealtors

Here are some photos of my new view. I know everyone has their opinions but please imagine if this was your home you live in and how you would feel losing any portion of your view you have always had.
I was never notified as an abutter of this and although they say they leave all day to go to the sand bar...they have not moved in a week. I can't imagine them leaving 7 days a week even on windy, chilly days this Summer. My poor neighbors behind me now only see the dive when they look out their back porches.

***Hoping the owners consider all us neighbors and do the right thing***

That is a nasty view and I would immediately research a good knowledgeable marine law attorney to see if you have a valid case to go forward, and start making some noise.

One thing is for sure; it negatively affects your property values!

If enough of your neighbors are on board you may have a very good class action case.

A good place to start is the licensing authorities who give licenses for water worthiness, plus food and beverage licensing.

Without licenses they are out of business permanently (they can not and will not operate without a financial incentive).

Keep us posted......

[Descant]

Originally Posted by TheTimeTraveler

That is a nasty view and I would immediately research a good knowledgeable marine law attorney to see if you have a valid case to go forward, and start making some noise.

One thing is for sure; it negatively affects your property values!

If enough of your neighbors are on board you may have a very good class action case.

A good place to start is the licensing authorities who give licenses for water worthiness, plus food and beverage licensing.

Without licenses they are out of business permanently (they can not and will not operate without a financial incentive).

Keep us posted......

I know this sounds rude, but not intended that way. Just don't know how else to summarize: Sounds like reading too many magazines at the beauty parlor. Class action?

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Descant

I know this sounds rude, but not intended that way. Just don't know how else to summarize: Sounds like reading too many magazines at the beauty parlor. Class action?

…..the two water front homes down the bottom of Simpson Ave, and the homes on the right side of the road with back porch views of the water all have the same exact issue ….and belong in the same CLASS of plaintiffs to hire an attorney and pursue a legal remedy to stop The Dive from permanently blocking what's been an open view, there, for the last 119-years and earlier.

Having a group of neighbors, all together in the same CLASS is a good way to share and lower the legal expense … plus it probably brings the neighbors together ….. united in the fight against the large and invasive Dive restaurant and bar …. bottoms up!~

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by fatlazyless

.....think I'll head down to The Dive ...... one beer and I'm too gone to be driving the car ....boat'n n beer ..... go together like ...... (finish this line here) .......

....impinge, clutter and encroach are words that come to mind looking at the new view, out front your house, down the bottom of Simpson Ave, there....


..... so, boat'n n beer .... go together like "impinge, clutter and encroach" ..... well, it certainly does now with The Dive permanently parked there as your new, invasive neighbor.....

..... it's the new neighbor from Hell ...... hellooooooooo ...... "we are The Dive ..... and we be your new neighbor ..... helloooooo!" .....

[hilltopper]

Originally Posted by Descant

It's interesting how generally positive the Dive conversation is on IBOW and how generally negative it is here.
I expect all the docks in the area were established well before the current regulations came into being, so, "grandfathered". Yes, if you do something that creates a (new) hazard to navigation you may have to undo whatever.

What's this IBOW you speak of? Am I missing out on another great forum?

[Taz]

Originally Posted by hilltopper

What's this IBOW you speak of? Am I missing out on another great forum?

IBOLW, I boat on lake Winnipesaukee, BOW, boat on Winnipesaukee. Both are groups on Facebook you can join.

[Reilly]

Originally Posted by AC2717

SO my question becomes:

with mooring and docks and the current laws, isn't it true that current boats cannot swing off a mooring or be docked over the property line of a neighbor? wouldn't this hold true in this situation, especially because of property lines already established, and there are slips under that pier that boats went into that kept them on the pier's side of a property line.

I for one am disappointed with East Coast Flight tech and the Dive owners for setting up this way, and I hope it is temporary. One would think neighbor discussion should have happened.


Seems like ever since the Goodhue Hawkins/East Coast Flight Craft took over Colbalt up in NH they have been trying to take over the world, which good for them, and I'm fine with that but now they are over stretching with this move. They wont block the Anthony's view but will cross over the property line to block others and yes that is a navigational hazard in that area

I truly believe that property owner and the owners on that street have a legitimate complaint in multiple aspects

you are absolutly correct & they will act on it