"Social Distancing" at the Lake

[Major]

Originally Posted by erick26

Opinions and actions are different - your opinions won’t hurt someone but your actions can


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Do you know for sure? Sounds like an opinion to me.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Do you know for sure? Sounds like an opinion to me.

I'm with you on it being an opinion.

But it is an opinion shared by virtually every medical and political leader in the entire world. This would include Donald Trump, and what I would assume is your favorite TV source, Fox News. Here's an overview of how their opinions have evolved over the past few weeks. You can skip the editorial if you'd like to avoid bias, but the video clips are all facts (i.e. it's a fact that certain people said certain things at certain times).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...8c0_video.html

I look forward to your opinion on their more recent statements

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I'm with you on it being an opinion.

But it is an opinion shared by virtually every medical and political leader in the entire world. This would include Donald Trump, and what I would assume is your favorite TV source, Fox News. Here's an overview of how their opinions have evolved over the past few weeks. You can skip the editorial if you'd like to avoid bias, but the video clips are all facts (i.e. it's a fact that certain people said certain things at certain times).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...8c0_video.html

I look forward to your opinion on their more recent statements

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

Once again you have evaded the central question of a post that disagrees with you. The link has a series of quotes from Fox news--an organization that has evolved remarkably as new information has come in. I hope you will let us know if you agree with their recent opinions.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Once again you have evaded the central question of a post that disagrees with you. The link has a series of quotes from Fox news--an organization that has evolved remarkably as new information has come in. I hope you will let us know if you agree with their recent opinions.

No I don't. There's a lot of money involved in hyping the Chinese coronavirus. They are jumping on the bandwagon.

Now answer my question, where were you and everyone else for the much worse H1N1 virus? Did the fact that we had a savior as president and a complicit press have anything to do with it?

[coolyourjets]

Originally Posted by Major

No I don't. There's a lot of money involved in hyping the Chinese coronavirus. They are jumping on the bandwagon.

Now answer my question, where were you and everyone else for the much worse H1N1 virus? Did the fact that we had a savior as president and a complicit press have anything to do with it?

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html

It's science. And yes the dinosaurs existed and no, the earth is not flat.

[Major]

Originally Posted by coolyourjets

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19...swine-flu.html

It's science. And yes the dinosaurs existed and no, the earth is not flat.

The article proves my point, as of TODAY, the raw numbers for H1N1 was much worse. I know science and I know math. I went to college for engineering.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

The article proves my point, as of TODAY, the raw numbers for H1N1 was much worse. I know science and I know math. I went to college for engineering.

Well, I know science and I know math, too, and I know you can’t compare numbers for a pandemic which has run its course, and one that is still developing. You also can’t ignore everything that you don’t like or agree with. That’s not very scientific.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

Well, I know science and I know math, too, and I know you can’t compare numbers for a pandemic which has run its course, and one that is still developing. You also can’t ignore everything that you don’t like or agree with. That’s not very scientific.


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You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the Chinese coronavirus until the Chinese coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

H1N1
Estimated cases worldwide -- 700,000,000 to 1,400,000,000
Deaths worldwide -- 151,700 to 575,400
Estimated cases U.S. -- 1,000,000
Deaths U.S. -- 7,070 to 13,930

Chinese coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

These numbers clearly support the notion that perhaps the Chinese coronavirus is not as severe as the H1N1 virus. Perhaps our response was excessive and an overreaction.

Anyway, I ran into a small business owner who had to lay off her entire staff and is looking for loans to keep her business afloat. The toll on small businesses is astronomical. I don't understand why it is such heresy to consider, perhaps, there may have been a better, more metered approach.

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by Major

You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the Chinese coronavirus until the Chinese coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

H1N1
Estimated cases worldwide -- 700,000,000 to 1,400,000,000
Deaths worldwide -- 151,700 to 575,400
Estimated cases U.S. -- 1,000,000
Deaths U.S. -- 7,070 to 13,930

Chinese coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

These numbers clearly support the notion that perhaps the Chinese coronavirus is not as severe as the H1N1 virus. Perhaps our response was excessive and an overreaction.

Anyway, I ran into a small business owner who had to lay off her entire staff and is looking for loans to keep her business afloat. The toll on small businesses is astronomical. I don't understand why it is such heresy to consider, perhaps, there may have been a better, more metered approach.

Well, I won’t compare numbers until the Coronavirus has run its course. You have to remember that testing in many countries is still limited, so the estimates are likely very low.

My heart breaks for all the small businesses and people who are seriously financially affected by this. My niece thinks student loans should be forgiven at this point. Mind you, she’s still getting paid while working remotely. If I were up north, I’d smack her in her self-absorbed face.


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[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by gillygirl

My niece thinks student loans should be forgiven at this point. Mind you, she’s still getting paid while working remotely. If I were up north, I’d smack her in her self-absorbed face.

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Ask your niece if they should forgive mortgages and car loans too. I would be all in!

[gillygirl]

Originally Posted by TiltonBB

Ask your niece if they should forgive mortgages and car loans too. I would be all in!

My sister sarcastically asked about her car loan, and her son reemed her a new one. Needless to say, he got a phone call from me.

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[Lakegeezer]

Originally Posted by Major

You are right you cannot compare numbers for H1N1 and the coronavirus until the coronavirus has run its course. Here are the FACTS to date:

coronavirus
Estimated cases worldwide -- 287,125
Deaths worldwide -- 11,890
Estimated cases U.S. -- 19,823
Deaths U.S. -- 276

The Major’s post got me interested in doing some research. The CDC has a great archive article on the N1H1 flu. https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm.

There are significant differences in the H1N1 pandemic of 2009 and the Covid-19 cases of 2020.

With N1H1, several effective anti-viral drugs that were quickly identified, greatly reducing the fear and need to shut down the economy. About a third of people over 60 were immune, having been exposed to similar viruses along the way. Finally, the government response was quick. Masks and anti-viral drugs were shipping from stockpiles within 10 days of the virus identification. There was more confidence and understanding of how to deal with it, so less panic. Within 5 months, there was a vaccine and by the end of the year, most of the people at greatest risk were protected.

This Covid-19 epidemic is still out of control. No antiviral drugs approved for treatment, shortage of protective gear and testing kits and no known groups with immunity. At this point, it could just vanish, or maybe the scientific community will some up with some solutions, but it seems likely that things will get worse for at least the next month or so. Let’s hope we can reboot the economy soon.

In just eight hours after the Major’s post of Covid-19 global numbers, things are different. Instead of 287,125 global cases, there are 303,816. 16,691 more, or 5.8% more. Instead of 11,890 global deaths, there are 12,996. 1106, or 9% more. In eight hours.

[kawishiwi]

Originally Posted by Major

Unfortunately, our president had no choice. The media and social media has whipped us up into such a frenzy that politically he could not take more metered actions to avoid destroying what otherwise was a booming economy. I'm not sure he really believes it. However, he has to politically.

I am not impressed by the so-called experts, who for the most part are government employees who have a vested interest in making a mountain out of a molehill. I've made the comparison before, but there are so-called experts who say that manmade climate change is an existential threat.

I've asked this many times with absolutely no response. Where was all of the hand waving and hysteria for the much worse H1N1 virus? Don't tell me the Chinese coronavirus is worse, the comparative numbers do not bear it out. Where are the Forum threads demanding that we destroy our economy to save lives.

As stated before by many others, I think we've exhausted this topic. I have my opinion, everyone else has theirs. I am as resolute if not more so than before just as others are with their views. The one good thing from this is that the President's approval rating is skyrocketing, which given the press against him, is a pretty good result. Even political rivals are praising him. I think history will treat him well on this.

So, what you are saying is, we WAIT until covid-19 actually becomes worse than H1N1, THEN we do something about it?

I think this will be what history remembers about Trump...

February 26th, 2020. President Trump: “When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

March 20th, 2020. Confirmed cases in the United States rise to 16,064.

[Major]

Originally Posted by kawishiwi

So, what you are saying is, we WAIT until covid-19 actually becomes worse than H1N1, THEN we do something about it?

I think this will be what history remembers about Trump...

February 26th, 2020. President Trump: “When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

March 20th, 2020. Confirmed cases in the United States rise to 16,064.

So the only option we had was to destroy a thriving economy? There was no intermediate, or metered option? I'm no genius, but 16,064 seems to be a lot less than over 1,000,000. Is there any potential that the Chinese coronavirus may be less of a crisis than the H1N1 crisis?

[erick26]

Originally Posted by Major

So the only option we had was to destroy a thriving economy? There was no intermediate, or metered option? I'm no genius, but 16,064 seems to be a lot less than over 1,000,000. Is there any potential that the Chinese coronavirus may be less of a crisis than the H1N1 crisis?

Or that the numbers are lower because most people obeyed the social distancing and reduced the spread. Chicken and egg here as people that think we are over reacting will push the case further based on the reduction and we will never know how bad it would have been if we did nothing. Chill for a couple of weeks and keep your distance and let this thing play out. The longer people keep doing their everyday thing the longer it will drag out and the worse the repercussions will be. If they had just shut everything down for 2 weeks in the beginning we would be mostly through this and starting to get back to normal but instead we are stuck in the middle and just pointing fingers at each other. It sucks for everyone - do what you really feel is right as long as you can sleep better at night. I’m taking one for the team and I hope in the long term it’s the right decision.


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[MAXUM]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I'm with you on it being an opinion.

But it is an opinion shared by virtually every medical and political leader in the entire world. This would include Donald Trump, and what I would assume is your favorite TV source, Fox News. Here's an overview of how their opinions have evolved over the past few weeks. You can skip the editorial if you'd like to avoid bias, but the video clips are all facts (i.e. it's a fact that certain people said certain things at certain times).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...8c0_video.html

I look forward to your opinion on their more recent statements

Yep it's just Fox News..... just watch how the rest of the media has remained consistent in their reporting as well. No political agenda on display there either. How ironic the last clip is of the master of objectivity himself Jim Acosta.

https://twitter.com/mrctv/status/1238186498433966081

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by MAXUM

Yep it's just Fox News..... just watch how the rest of the media has remained consistent in their reporting as well. No political agenda on display there either. How ironic the last clip is of the master of objectivity himself Jim Acosta.

https://twitter.com/mrctv/status/1238186498433966081

I did not post that just to troll my Fox-ish pen pals on consistency. (I try to refrain from that sort of thing.)

I posted it to push Major and others to recognize that even Fox News asserts that we are in a crisis situation. I hope all of you will come around soon to the current Fox talking points from the video.

[Major]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

I did not post that just to troll my Fox-ish pen pals on consistency. (I try to refrain from that sort of thing.)

I posted it to push Major and others to recognize that even Fox News asserts that we are in a crisis situation. I hope all of you will come around soon to the current Fox talking points from the video.

Nope. I’m more resolute than ever. This is completely overkill, especially in New Hampshire.


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[erick26]

Originally Posted by Major

Nope. I’m more resolute than ever. This is completely overkill, especially in New Hampshire.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Major

Nope. I’m more resolute than ever. This is completely overkill, especially in New Hampshire.


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You take "live free or die" to the extreme.

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[Charlie T]

Originally Posted by Major

Nope. I’m more resolute than ever. This is completely overkill, especially in New Hampshire.

Sadly you will never know or be held responsible for the damage you may be doing to others due to your stubbornness, You have dug in and don't appear to even consider any view other than your own. you refuse to put the needs of society over your personal needs and desires.

I understand the need to keep your business alive but consider this, Is your profession to be found in the graphic below?

I too own a business and my plan is to furlough my staff in order to keep them and their families safe. I'll to the best of my ability continue to pay my employees as loyalty is a 2 way street. Those of us who can work remotely from home have an obligation to society to do so.

Please minimize your travel and don't expose others due to your need to be right. With any luck we will keep this somewhat contained and those of you who call it a hoax will get to say "I told you so". The alternative is frightening.

]

[Biggd]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

Sadly you will never know or be held responsible for the damage you may be doing to others due to your stubbornness, You have dug in and don't appear to even consider any view other than your own. you refuse to put the needs of society over your personal needs and desires.

I understand the need to keep your business alive but consider this, Is your profession to be found in the graphic below?

I too own a business and my plan is to furlough my staff in order to keep them and their families safe. I'll to the best of my ability continue to pay my employees as loyalty is a 2 way street. Those of us who can work remotely from home have an obligation to society to do so.

Please minimize your travel and don't expose others due to your need to be right. With any luck we will keep this somewhat contained and those of you who call it a hoax will get to say "I told you so". The alternative is frightening.

]

A parrot doesn't really think for himself. He just repeats what ever comes out of his trainers mouth.

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[Major]

Originally Posted by Charlie T

Sadly you will never know or be held responsible for the damage you may be doing to others due to your stubbornness, You have dug in and don't appear to even consider any view other than your own. you refuse to put the needs of society over your personal needs and desires.

I understand the need to keep your business alive but consider this, Is your profession to be found in the graphic below?

I too own a business and my plan is to furlough my staff in order to keep them and their families safe. I'll to the best of my ability continue to pay my employees as loyalty is a 2 way street. Those of us who can work remotely from home have an obligation to society to do so.

Please minimize your travel and don't expose others due to your need to be right. With any luck we will keep this somewhat contained and those of you who call it a hoax will get to say "I told you so". The alternative is frightening.

As of right now, 0.01% of Americans have tested positive for the Chinese coronavirus. I’m pretty sure I’ve infected no one, nor am I likely to be infected. This is especially true in NH where the rates are much lower. This is a complete overreaction. The numbers support my position.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by Major

As of right now, 0.01% of Americans have tested positive for the Chinese coronavirus. I’m pretty sure I’ve infected no one, nor am I likely to be infected. This is especially true in NH where the rates are much lower. This is a complete overreaction. The numbers support my position.


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By the way, I look forward to going to my office in Boston tomorrow.


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[Glendale Deli Boy]

I currently live in Hong Kong where we have been dealing with the virus for a couple of months now. Fortunately, Hong Kong was well prepared and moved quickly early on to contain the virus as best as possible. Crucial to their plan was early testing, transparency, quarantining protocols, and reduced social interaction. They asked people to work from home as much as possible, stay off public transportation as much as possible, and wear masks. Today almost 100 percent of folks wear masks when outside or in close quarters with others.

No disrespect intended but had Major’s approach been the prevailing practice two months ago here in HK, it is indisputable that the number of positive cases, strain on the medical system, deaths, and economic damage here would have been far greater. Because HK and its people took action early on they were able to keep restaurants and businesses open, and people are going about their lives and not subject to stay at home orders. That said some small businesses and restaurants have shuttered since there are no tourists and many folks are choosing to stay closer to home.

I pray that we don’t see an Italy type scenario in parts of the US. It is truly horrifying when doctors have to decide who lives and dies based on the number of ventilators they have access to. Hopefully it never gets that bad in the U.S.

Stay safe all. Wishing everybody the best and I can’t wait until this passes and I can get back to the Lake, my favorite place in the world.

[ApS]

Well, now we've heard it from Hong Kong itself.

Two new developments:

1) If pressed by unacceptable results after this "sheltering", government has the ability to follow a person who has contracted Covid-19 by cellphone.
Science Magazine:

"...owners of any other phones that recently came close to that phone get notified of their risk of infection and are advised to self-isolate".

(Close=within one-meter distance).

2) An Israeli doctor volunteering in Italy posted, "We're not sending Covid-19 victims over the age of 60 to our hospital's ventilators".

[Glendale Deli Boy]

Originally Posted by ApS

Well, now we've heard it from Hong Kong itself.

Two new developments:

1) If pressed by unacceptable results after this "sheltering", government has the ability to follow a person who has contracted Covid-19 by cellphone.
Science Magazine:

In Hong Kong anybody arriving from overseas is fitted with a wristband tracker and required to self-quarantine for 14 days at home. They download an app and the government can track whether they break quarantine. This system is effective but might be a bridge too far for the U.S.!!!

[Reilly]

Originally Posted by Major

By the way, I look forward to going to my office in Boston tomorrow.


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Pretty sure & Likely are not positive words ??? Do us all a favor & stay in Boston & pretty sure its safer there & your not likely to be infected

[Descant]

Originally Posted by Major

By the way, I look forward to going to my office in Boston tomorrow.

I thought you were going to FL? Trip cancelled?

[Major]

Originally Posted by Descant

I thought you were going to FL? Trip cancelled?

Trip got postponed to May 7th. Hopefully things will be okay then.

Wrapping up at work today. We just found out that our building isn't closing, so I will be coming into work after my dentist's and doctor's appointments this week. Most likely next week. That is unless there are armed guards protecting the building! Hard to enforce since essential personnel isn't defined.

[FlyingScot]

Originally Posted by Major

Trip got postponed to May 7th. Hopefully things will be okay then.

Wrapping up at work today. We just found out that our building isn't closing, so I will be coming into work after my dentist's and doctor's appointments this week. Most likely next week. That is unless there are armed guards protecting the building! Hard to enforce since essential personnel isn't defined.

Thank God the lawyers will be able to get to work

[TiltonBB]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Thank God the lawyers will be able to get to work

Why? Do you think that would stop them from billing you at the customary hourly rate?

[Mr. V]

Thank God the lawyers will be able to get to work

I am not going to the office daily due to the pandemic.

Besides, out west the courts are closed, people have hunkered down for the duration.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Thank God the lawyers will be able to get to work

Not all lawyers. My daughter’s law office is shut down.

Be interesting to see if/how MA enforces the order. A friend of my daughter’s is a pharmacist and has a letter from CVS that reads like driving pass.


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[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Major

Trip got postponed to May 7th. Hopefully things will be okay then.

What "things" will be OK?

[Major]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

Trip got postponed to May 7th. Hopefully things will be okay then.

What "things" will be OK?

Mainly the restaurants and Pompano Beach being open.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Major

Mainly the restaurants and Pompano Beach being open.

If things need to be "OK", you are acknowledging the problem!

So- why the resistance to doing the right thing?

[Major]

Originally Posted by JEEPONLY

If things need to be "OK", you are acknowledging the problem!

So- why the resistance to doing the right thing?

If you’ve been following this thread I don’t think it’s the right thing. In fact I think it’s very wrong. There’s not much more to say.


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[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

Trip got postponed to May 7th. Hopefully things will be okay then.

Wrapping up at work today. We just found out that our building isn't closing, so I will be coming into work after my dentist's and doctor's appointments this week. Most likely next week. That is unless there are armed guards protecting the building! Hard to enforce since essential personnel isn't defined.

For a purported lawyer running a business, you are irresponsible. You said just a couple days ago that you wouldn’t take this seriously until there are 1500 deaths in the US. There was 100 in one day, and everyone (except perhaps you) acknowledges this is going to get much worse before it gets better, and that assumes people are not idiots and start accepting their collective responsibility to their neighbors to stay home.

It is people like you that are causing this to spread beyond the capacity of our medical system and are literally killing people. I hope your doctor’s appointment is not for a preexisting medical condition.

If people would just stay home and let this get under control, we could get through this faster and with less loss of life. But that’s apparently not your concern (until it is, when its too late and hits you or your family).

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

For a purported lawyer running a business, you are irresponsible. You said just a couple days ago that you wouldn’t take this seriously until there are 1500 deaths in the US. There was 100 in one day, and everyone (except perhaps you) acknowledges this is going to get much worse before it gets better, and that assumes people are not idiots and start accepting their collective responsibility to their neighbors to stay home.

It is people like you that are causing this to spread beyond the capacity of our medical system and are literally killing people. I hope your doctor’s appointment is not for a preexisting medical condition.

If people would just stay home and let this get under control, we could get through this faster and with less loss of life. But that’s apparently not your concern (until it is, when its too late and hits you or your family).

He is causing the spread? That is a tremendous accusation.

Major is doing nothing wrong and not breaking any laws. His job was deemed essential and he is going to work and taking care of his business.

All he needs to be is vigilant as he goes about work. For you to accuse him is completely off base. Your should go after ALL the essential workers in that case.


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[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by joey2665

He is causing the spread? That is a tremendous accusation.

Major is doing nothing wrong and not breaking any laws. His job was deemed essential and he is going to work and taking care of his business.

All he needs to be is vigilant as he goes about work. For you to accuse him is completely off base. Your should go after ALL the essential workers in that case.


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His business is not an essential business. The entire Boston legal community is shut down, and Major decided it doesn’t apply to him. From the governor’s order as to what constitutes essential for lawyers:

Professional services (such as legal and accounting services) and payroll and employee benefit services, when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities and critical sector services or where failure to provide such services during the time of the order would result in significant prejudice.

The fact is that he can work from home, but chooses not to, which demonstrates the point.

If you are not part of the solution on this, you are the problem.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

His business is not an essential business. The entire Boston legal community is shut down, and Major decided it doesn’t apply to him. From the governor’s order as to what constitutes essential for lawyers:

Professional services (such as legal and accounting services) and payroll and employee benefit services, when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities and critical sector services or where failure to provide such services during the time of the order would result in significant prejudice.

The fact is that he can work from home, but chooses not to, which demonstrates the point.

If you are not part of the solution on this, you are the problem.

And you know this? You know his firm and the type of law it practices? You know he can work from home?

That’s a lot to know about a person from some posts on a forum page


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[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by joey2665

And you know this? You know his firm and the type of law it practices? You know he can work from home?

That’s a lot to know about a person from some posts on a forum page


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Actually, Joey, he said it himself. On a different thread where he lambasted the closing of restaurants, he said that he and his entire firm can work remotely. So hard to see how being in the office can be “necessary.”

[Major]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

Actually, Joey, he said it himself. On a different thread where he lambasted the closing of restaurants, he said that he and his entire firm can work remotely. So hard to see how being in the office can be “necessary.”

Paying bills for one thing. Only partners can write checks. Dealing with mail is another. There are countless things that need to be done in the office. We cannot just vacate the office for two weeks. Deadlines don’t go away because of the Chinese coronavirus.


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[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

Paying bills for one thing. Only partners can write checks. Dealing with mail is another. There are countless things that need to be done in the office. We cannot just vacate the office for two weeks. Deadlines don’t go away because of the Chinese coronavirus.


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Got it. So it is not to provide legal services “when necessary to assist in compliance with legally mandated activities and critical sector services or where failure to provide such services during the time of the order would result in significant prejudice.”

Just to be clear here, the governor’s order is unambiguous, and you’re just choosing to disregard it. So, yes, Joey, he is doing something illegal.

[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by Major

Paying bills for one thing. Only partners can write checks. Dealing with mail is another. There are countless things that need to be done in the office. We cannot just vacate the office for two weeks. Deadlines don’t go away because of the Chinese coronavirus.


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You must not have gotten the latest talking points from the Great Pumpkin. He is no longer using the term “Chinese coronavirus.” You need to be careful not to step out of line!

And by the way, most/all law offices have the same issues with paying bills, answering phones, reading mail. My daughter’s is still shutting down at noon today. Bills paid remotely by their accountant in phone/e-mail collaboration with partners; phones forwarded to a service who is e-mailing messages to the appropriate person. Mail forwarded to a partner for his review/handling/dispersement. So it can be done if you want to follow orders. But alas, you are the Major and majors always felt they were above being responsible for their actions!


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[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by Major

Hard to enforce since essential personnel isn't defined.

And, by the way, Major, if you are so convinced of the inapplicability of the Governor’s order to you and your disregard for the consensus of the ENTIRE public health community, step out from behind your screen name. Tell us your name and your law firm. If you have the courage of your convictions, I am sure your clients would agree with your decisions and leadership here.

[Major]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

And, by the way, Major, if you are so convinced of the inapplicability of the Governor’s order to you and your disregard for the consensus of the ENTIRE public health community, step out from behind your screen name. Tell us your name and your law firm. If you have the courage of your convictions, I am sure your clients would agree with your decisions and leadership here.

Calm down Cow! Geez, what are you going to do? Dox me and call my clients? Lt Gov Dan Patrick (Texas) just issued a statement that summarizes my position on this exactly. Yes we may shorten the curve or whatever metaphor is being bantered about but at what cost? Our children’s and grandchildren’s future?

By the way most of my work is for Raytheon, Schneider Electric and Illinois Tool Works. I highly doubt they would care one bit what you think. Believe it or not they love me!


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[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Major

Calm down Cow! Geez, what are you going to do? Dox me and call my clients? Lt Gov Dan Patrick (Texas) just issued a statement that summarizes my position on this exactly. Yes we may shorten the curve or whatever metaphor is being bantered about but at what cost? Our children’s and grandchildren’s future?

By the way most of my work is for Raytheon, Schneider Electric and Illinois Tool Works. I highly doubt they would care one bit what you think. Believe it or not they love me!


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I agree 1000%. We are sacrificing the future on many for the potential benefit of a few.


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

I agree 1000%. We are sacrificing the future on many for the potential benefit of a few.


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Well then we should just shut down the state of NY, since that is where 50% of the cases are, to protect the rest of the country, "Why are we sacrificing the future on many for the potential benefit of a few"?

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

Well then we should just shut down the state of NY, since that is where 50% of the cases are, to protect the rest of the country, "Why are we sacrificing the future on many for the potential benefit of a few"?

First of all New York is a huge and diverse state just like Massachusetts shutting down the whole state is ridiculous upstate in western New York have nowhere near the amount of population that New York City does so your statement is grossly incorrect. Just like I wouldn’t shut down the whole state of Massachusetts if there was an issue in Boston. even if I did agree with shutting down the city which I do not. And yes it’s all New York’s fault.

If you studied your economics you know if we are not back to work very shortly we are going to go into a severe depression with people losing their savings retirement accounts and if it gets bad enough possibly Social Security. We need to get people back to work now

Again this is my opinion you keep asking me the same questions over and over my opinion it’s not gonna change take it or leave it I really don’t care


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[Biggd]

Originally Posted by joey2665

First of all New York is a huge and diverse state just like Massachusetts shutting down the whole state is ridiculous upstate in western New York have nowhere near the amount of population that New York City does so your statement is grossly incorrect. Just like I wouldn’t shut down the whole state of Massachusetts if there was an issue in Boston. even if I did agree with shutting down the city which I do not. And yes it’s all New York’s fault.

If you studied your economics you know if we are not back to work very shortly we are going to go into a severe depression with people losing their savings retirement accounts and if it gets bad enough possibly Social Security. We need to get people back to work now

Again this is my opinion you keep asking me the same questions over and over my opinion it’s not gonna change take it or leave it I really don’t care


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I was being sarcastic just to show you how self centered your statement is but I'm sure it's not going to change your attitude.
I'm sensing a lot of financial stress. I too have lost a lot of wealth in the past few weeks but I put protecting peoples health ahead of their wealth. If you don't have your health it doesn't matter how much money you have. So yes, we have different views of what's most important in life.

[joey2665]

Originally Posted by Biggd

I was being sarcastic just to show you how self centered your statement is but I'm sure it's not going to change your attitude.

I'm sensing a lot of financial stress. I too have lost a lot of wealth in the past few weeks but I put protecting peoples health ahead of their wealth. If you don't have your health it doesn't matter how much money you have. So yes, we have different views of what's most important in life.

Please do not tell me I do not value health or value wealth over health. If things get as bad with the economy as they might, remember people and businesses need money to pay for healthcare which many may not be able to do. Then we will have socialized medicine which will be an absolute disaster you will really see our mortality rate drop.

As I said and continue to believe closing the non essentials was a complete overreaction.


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[The Real BigGuy]

Originally Posted by CowTimes

And, by the way, Major, if you are so convinced of the inapplicability of the Governor’s order to you and your disregard for the consensus of the ENTIRE public health community, step out from behind your screen name. Tell us your name and your law firm. If you have the courage of your convictions, I am sure your clients would agree with your decisions and leadership here.

Not fair! I may not agree with him but, as far as I know, this is still the United States. Don’t think social shaming is appropriate here.


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[Major]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Not fair! I may not agree with him but, as far as I know, this is still the United States. Don’t think social shaming is appropriate here.


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Thank you RBG!

[Major]

We make decisions as a society to accept known risks. Every year 20,000 to 80,000 Americans die of the flu and about 500,000 people are hosiptalized. We do not shut down our economy to deal with this risk. Every year 35,000 Americans die in car accidents and 3,000,000 are injured. We do not tell people that they can't commute to work or attend events by car because of this risk.

I was speaking to my dad this morning. He's 75 years old and in good health. My mom, unfortunately, is 76 years old has advanced COPD. Contracting the Chinese coronavirus would most likely kill her. (She's in Florida so my wreckless actions won't affect her. Although I went to the dentist today and my temperature was 98.5, so I think I'm okay!) My dad agreed with Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. His quote "why are we sacrificing our children's and grandchildren's future for a bunch of old people."

I don't want to see anyone die, whether from Chinese coronavirus, H1N1, flu or car accidents. However, our approach to this as a society and a government is completely over the top.

[fatlazyless]

Originally Posted by Major

Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick. His quote "why are we sacrificing our children's and grandchildren's future for a bunch of old people."

More on this quote from Texas Lt Gov Dan Patrick ..... http://www.nymag.com/intelligencer/2...e-economy.html ... includes the 1:44 video with Tucker Carlson from March 23, 2020, 8:21-pm and email comments down the page.

Took a look at the Wikipedia profile on Lt Gov Dan Patrick, born April 4, 1950, age-69, and he has no military service in his profile so perhaps he got a medical deferment or a high draft lottery number to avoid serving during the War in Vietnam. Is interesting how the guy who did not serve is now talking about re-starting the nation's business economy asap-pdq and willing to sacrifice some of the elderly to the corona virus.

And ditto that same 'no military service' for Tucker Carlson, born May 16, 1969, age-50.

...... talk about a MAJOR blunder! ....... is best to save lives ....... not Wall St.

[TheRoBoat]

Some myths and numbers

I have seen a lot of numbers bantered about here, and rather than address the posts individually, I’ll give you a Californian’s perspective.

Forget any social distancing numbers, timeframes, etc, that you have heard. The only number that matters is how long you will be under shelter in place. Complain or disagree all you want, it is almost assuredly going to happen. “The clock” doesn’t start ticking until then.

At that point, you are looking at probably 2-3 weeks minimum, as others have said. Probably much longer on a voluntary basis. And this is the key point - the longer you wait, the longer it will be before you come out of it. Not wait a day now, and it’s a day on the backend - it’s not a one to one trade off.

Forget "the Grandparents” meme. CA Covid Cases:

Ages 0-17: 25 cases
Ages 18-49: 837 cases
Ages 50-64: 442 cases
Ages 65 and older: 415 cases
Unknown: 14 cases

Keep an eye on CA’s numbers, and the numbers of States who waited much longer to declare shelter in place orders. We started the “draconian” measures much earlier. If they work, we will come out earlier as well. Of course a lot of that depends on medical supply availability, etc etc.

Both Bay area and LA health officials have said “the worst is coming”, which in the big picture is not the a bad thing to have happening right now. They imposed stricter restrictions on parks and beaches, since the public was not following guidelines.

Shaming - I won’t say whether I agree or not, I will say it is prevalent in CA. Prediction - this guy’s business is over - https://www.latimes.com/california/s...antine-shaming

[Major]

I'm curious, what is being done about the huge homeless encampments in LA and SF? A society that allows this type of behavior and the diseases that it spreads (most of which were eradicated a long time ago) should not be too concerned about the Chinese coronavirus. My guess is that the Chinese coronavirus is running rampant in these homeless encampments. As Maxum stated above, we tolerate this type of way more dangerous social disobedience. In fact, I wouldn't say we tolerate it, we actually enable it. And I'm being chastised because I think it's an overreaction and I want to live my life.

[CowTimes]

Originally Posted by The Real BigGuy

Not fair! I may not agree with him but, as far as I know, this is still the United States. Don’t think social shaming is appropriate here.

Yes, it is the United States where the rule of law governs. And we have a lawyer, of all people, flaunting lawful orders of the governor designed for public safety. Disagree with officials all you want, but let’s get real at some point and stop pretending that this is ok.

[JEEPONLY]

Originally Posted by Major

Nope. I’m more resolute than ever. This is completely overkill, especially in New Hampshire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8smllfYB9KY

Demoted!